Also I love how we've just accepted that the two states of Rogue are either winning tournaments in terrible one-sided games or bombing out of the group stages. His inconsistency has been quite consistent.
This is a truly fascinating group, it’s basically what players show their best form or their worst. I mean do we get terrifying Rogue or terrible Rogue, Super Tournament Cure or GSL finalist Cure? The Neeb that pulled a top 4 in a Dreamhack season final or the Neeb we’ve seen much of the year?
It’s almost entirely a group of players that in recent times have been pretty inconsistent, with one player who I’d say is reasonably consistent but has struggled to push to the next level in Rag. Basically the Heromarine player of the group and Big Gabe certainly stepped it up!
On February 25 2021 10:26 Obamarauder wrote: rogue has been getting quite flustered at losing lately. check out this rare rogue reaction https://youtu.be/2FAz2Fk5GzA?t=2596
That could be the reason why he was drinking quite recently.
On February 25 2021 10:30 WombaT wrote: This is a truly fascinating group, it’s basically what players show their best form or their worst. I mean do we get terrifying Rogue or terrible Rogue, Super Tournament Cure or GSL finalist Cure? The Neeb that pulled a top 4 in a Dreamhack season final or the Neeb we’ve seen much of the year?
It’s almost entirely a group of players that in recent times have been pretty inconsistent, with one player who I’d say is reasonably consistent but has struggled to push to the next level in Rag. Basically the Heromarine player of the group and Big Gabe certainly stepped it up!
Yeah, its definitely hard to predict because they're very volatile players, but i'd go with Rogue/Stats/Cure because their best for is better than the best form of the other 3 guys, and if there's a tournament to prepare and show your best form this is it.
On February 25 2021 10:30 WombaT wrote: This is a truly fascinating group, it’s basically what players show their best form or their worst. I mean do we get terrifying Rogue or terrible Rogue, Super Tournament Cure or GSL finalist Cure? The Neeb that pulled a top 4 in a Dreamhack season final or the Neeb we’ve seen much of the year?
It’s almost entirely a group of players that in recent times have been pretty inconsistent, with one player who I’d say is reasonably consistent but has struggled to push to the next level in Rag. Basically the Heromarine player of the group and Big Gabe certainly stepped it up!
Yeah, its definitely hard to predict because they're very volatile players, but i'd go with Rogue/Stats/Cure because their best for is better than the best form of the other 3 guys, and if there's a tournament to prepare and show your best form this is it.
Rogue has been playing absolutely atrocious in the past couple of months and seemed frustrated with the game having no fun at all. Well, only one outcome is possible out of this. He will win the whole thing :D
On February 25 2021 10:26 Obamarauder wrote: rogue has been getting quite flustered at losing lately. check out this rare rogue reaction https://youtu.be/2FAz2Fk5GzA?t=2596
Can t remember the tournament, but I saw something similar out of Rogue somewhere else as well. I think it was vs Trap and it was on Rogues birthday as well for double the pain..
I m not quite a Rogue fan by any strech, but I hope he does well mentally... Loosing always sucks and those reactings make it look like he isn t boding to well with it lately
On February 25 2021 10:26 Obamarauder wrote: rogue has been getting quite flustered at losing lately. check out this rare rogue reaction https://youtu.be/2FAz2Fk5GzA?t=2596
Can t remember the tournament, but I saw something similar out of Rogue somewhere else as well. I think it was vs Trap and it was on Rogues birthday as well for double the pain..
I m not quite a Rogue fan by any strech, but I hope he does well mentally... Loosing always sucks and those reactings make it look like he isn t boding to well with it lately
I am pretty sure he want to do something peculiar before the impeding military service. No doubt if he win IEM Katowice for the third times, he is the greatest player ever albeit with the questionable inconsistency.
Really not sure what to expect from this group except a blood bath, depending on Rogue's form it could be a clear cut group or a very close fest. I could see all players in here qualify...
On February 25 2021 22:33 Harris1st wrote: Do we know anything about the Ro12/ Ro8 seeding? Is it draw or fixed?
I think it's semi-random for ro12: 3rd place vs 2nd place but you can't be matched with someone from your group. So for example Clem (3rd place) has 2/3 chances to be up against either Serral or Reynor (both 2nd place) in ro12, and 1/3 against the 2nd place from today group D. Not sure about ro8.
On February 25 2021 23:25 sudete wrote: B-stream has to pay a bit more attention to the game state, like how neeb just did a 3 base "pressure" build direclty into ragnarok's all-in lmao
The dif in Rag's all-in/macro frequency depending on ZvP and ZvT has been kinda hilarious in recent matches.
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
I dunno how Cure is supposed to have a better chance next game he got away with a lot of greed that time. I know he got kinda screwed by not scouting the mutas but Rogue just rolled him from slightly behind
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game 2 Neeb got a lil unlucky running a small pressure force into a ling all in. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game 2 Neeb got a lil unlucky running a small pressure force into a ling all in. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
Who assured you that? I think if the toss commits on voids (read more than 4) it works pretty good if done right.
I rarely complain about SC2 but TvZ used to be the best matchup in the game. Unfortunately, every match now looks the same. 2/3 of the map is covered in creep with endless streams of lings/blings. And it seems like no terran has an answer for that.
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
Who assured you that? I think if the toss commits on voids (read more than 4) it works pretty good if done right.
On February 25 2021 23:44 JoeCool wrote: I rarely complain about SC2 but TvZ used to be the best matchup in the game. Unfortunately, every match now looks the same. 2/3 of the map is covered in creep with endless streams of lings/blings. And it seems like no terran has an answer for that.
Ya seriously, the only tvz zerg lost were Solar getting proxy rax and that nuke game, they seemed untouchable in the rest.
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
Who assured you that? I think if the toss commits on voids (read more than 4) it works pretty good if done right.
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
Who assured you that? I think if the toss commits on voids (read more than 4) it works pretty good if done right.
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
On February 25 2021 23:41 Harris1st wrote: Can someone give me a short summary on Neeb vs Rag?
Still at work -.-
I missed game one but two and three were Rag all inning and it working. Game three was a roach/ravager/queen all in against the 2 SG void ray that I had been assured doesn't work
Who assured you that? I think if the toss commits on voids (read more than 4) it works pretty good if done right.
On February 25 2021 23:44 JoeCool wrote: I rarely complain about SC2 but TvZ used to be the best matchup in the game. Unfortunately, every match now looks the same. 2/3 of the map is covered in creep with endless streams of lings/blings. And it seems like no terran has an answer for that.
it looks like that this tournament but it's still the same patch that had Terrans destroying Zergs (ASUS ROG, King of Battles)
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
Well except Cure never actually won anything and Trap has been the best protoss not just in the last 3 tournaments he won (I mean wow, when did Stats last have that kind of success) but for the last 2 years at least.
On February 25 2021 23:50 Charoisaur wrote: Roguejwa shows up?
Let's wait for his ZvPs
yeah I wasn't really worried about his ZvT especially with what seems to be the state of the mu ; but if he can display convincing ZvP we'll be sure championship caliber Rogue is there
i'd love to see rogue take curs outer bases and already start mining from them, it's something i imo way too rarely see up against a turteling player like cure.
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
Would you have had Zoun as the favourite if he managed to win Super Tournament? It was within his grasp.
Katowice is weird. It's always whoever steps up at the time that does well. Some players have a history of doing that, some don't.
The problem is that Rogue is just so in control of the game state and is always a step ahead compositionally. He had tanks when the mutas came out, bio/thor when it was mass banes, and mass marine when it was mass ultra. Dunno what Cure can do except scout better he really wasn't ready for mutas in either game
Rofl. Just smashing endlessly wawes of banes until Terran is out of bases and resources. But props to Rogue. First he made Cure overmake marines with muta bane, then switched to ultras and cure didn't have enough marauders so he overmade them and died to banes again :D
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
Would you have had Zoun as the favourite if he managed to win Super Tournament? It was within his grasp.
Katowice is weird. It's always whoever steps up at the time that does well. Some players have a history of doing that, some don't.
Winning one supert tournament = winning the last 3 prmier events with top lvl competition, quite the logic u got there. By your logic 2018 maru shouldn't have been hyped after he won 3 gsls in a row because he never shows up in weekenders.
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
Would you have had Zoun as the favourite if he managed to win Super Tournament? It was within his grasp.
Katowice is weird. It's always whoever steps up at the time that does well. Some players have a history of doing that, some don't.
Winning one supert tournament = winning the last 3 prmier events with top lvl competition, quite the logic u got there. By your logic 2018 maru shouldn't have been hyped after he won 3 gsls in a row because he never shows up in weekenders.
My logic would have said Maru shouldn't be hyped in small weekenders where he has almost never shown up
On February 25 2021 23:50 Charoisaur wrote: Roguejwa shows up?
Let's wait for his ZvPs
usually that's his best matchup
Usually. But he has been struggling a lot with it in the past couple of months. Let's see if he made adjustments, it's his tournament after all so if he is truly in Roguejwa form we can expect him to easily advance here, smash at least Parting and Neeb and than give us another amazing finals by 4:0 Stats or Zest
Too bad neeb lost to ragnarok. He should have been able to win that one, and I think he typically would. But if he doesn't win that one I don't think he has a strong chance in this group.
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
Would you have had Zoun as the favourite if he managed to win Super Tournament? It was within his grasp.
Katowice is weird. It's always whoever steps up at the time that does well. Some players have a history of doing that, some don't.
If Zoun had won Super Tournament 2 last year, DH Last Chance, and the first Super Tournament this year within the span of a few months I would have possibly considered him the best protoss player oh and if he also finished second at the Summer and Fall finals this year.
Meanwhile Zest hasn't won a premier since 2016 and Stats hasn't since 2019 (although if we're eliminating things like Assembly or Super Tournaments that goes back to 2017) So yeah hindsight 20/20 har har Trap lost yesterday. Doesn't mean it wasn't a valid thought pre tournament Trap had a bad day.
On February 25 2021 23:50 Charoisaur wrote: Roguejwa shows up?
Let's wait for his ZvPs
usually that's his best matchup
Usually. But he has been struggling a lot with it in the past couple of months. Let's see if he made adjustments, it's his tournament after all so if he is truly in Roguejwa form we can expect him to easily advance here, smash at least Parting and Neeb and than give us another amazing finals by 4:0 Stats or Zest
yeah he wasn't too convincing vP in the last months but rumour has it that he's in amazing form even in that mu. Playing vs Stats will be a great revealer, I can't wait
On February 26 2021 00:05 darklycid wrote: Terrans already talking up 2019 and bad performance while almost half of the ro12 players are terran, never change guys
In fairness there was a guaranteed terran advancement from groups A and B and in group B Terrans finished 3rd-6th after the two Zergs. You can make an argument that Solar was a hail mary nuke away from advancing from A as well.
I'm not saying ZvT is imba or whatever other people are but like yeah a lot of Terrans advanced from the first two groups 8/12 players were Terran
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
Would you have had Zoun as the favourite if he managed to win Super Tournament? It was within his grasp.
Katowice is weird. It's always whoever steps up at the time that does well. Some players have a history of doing that, some don't.
If Zoun had won Super Tournament 2 last year, DH Last Chance, and the first Super Tournament this year within the span of a few months I would have possibly considered him the best protoss player oh and if he also finished second at the Summer and Fall finals this year.
Meanwhile Zest hasn't won a premier since 2016 and Stats hasn't since 2019 (although if we're eliminating things like Assembly or Super Tournaments that goes back to 2017) So yeah hindsight 20/20 har har Trap lost yesterday. Doesn't mean it wasn't a valid thought pre tournament Trap had a bad day.
Trap was absolutely playing the best out of all of them in the last 6 months or so. I'm not denying that.
But he doesn't have the same ceiling as Stats or even Zest. I didn't expect him to go out last in his group, but I didn't expect him to step up and win the tournament either. I would have had Stats ahead of him, along with the recent world champions (serral, dark, rogue) even if none of them had won anything in recent months.
On February 26 2021 00:05 darklycid wrote: Terrans already talking up 2019 and bad performance while almost half of the ro12 players are terran, never change guys
In fairness there was a guaranteed terran advancement from groups A and B and in group B Terrans finished 3rd-6th after the two Zergs. You can make an argument that Solar was a hail mary nuke away from advancing from A as well.
I'm not saying ZvT is imba or whatever other people are but like yeah a lot of Terrans advanced from the first two groups 8/12 players were Terran
Yeah but this was also enabled by 11 ppl out of 24 in the group stages being terran which also doesn't support a terran = bad narrative, i'm sure there are points to critisize about every mu but so far the tvzs were mostly won by the expected (better) player so dunno if you can already talk about it being too zerg favored or anything.
On February 25 2021 23:50 Charoisaur wrote: Roguejwa shows up?
Let's wait for his ZvPs
usually that's his best matchup
Usually. But he has been struggling a lot with it in the past couple of months. Let's see if he made adjustments, it's his tournament after all so if he is truly in Roguejwa form we can expect him to easily advance here, smash at least Parting and Neeb and than give us another amazing finals by 4:0 Stats or Zest
yeah he wasn't too convincing vP in the last months but rumour has it that he's in amazing form even in that mu. Playing vs Stats will be a great revealer, I can't wait
Rogue is annoying. He can play like garbage for the whole year then win 4-0 against protoss in the finals if he decides to.
On February 26 2021 00:05 darklycid wrote: Terrans already talking up 2019 and bad performance while almost half of the ro12 players are terran, never change guys
In fairness there was a guaranteed terran advancement from groups A and B and in group B Terrans finished 3rd-6th after the two Zergs. You can make an argument that Solar was a hail mary nuke away from advancing from A as well.
I'm not saying ZvT is imba or whatever other people are but like yeah a lot of Terrans advanced from the first two groups 8/12 players were Terran
Yeah but this was also enabled by 11 ppl out of 24 in the group stages being terran which also doesn't support a terran = bad narrative, i'm sure there are points to critisize about every mu but so far the tvzs were mostly won by the expected (better) player so dunno if you can already talk about it being too zerg favored or anything.
yeah it just seems the top ZvTers are really hard to beat... but let's wait how Maru/TY do against them.
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Then he just left...
the count showed 40 scvs dead. I think it would have been tough to hold the double medivac drop coming across the map but like after that may scvs killed why not try to play it out?
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Stats forgot that microbial hydras actually beat carriers hard if u don't have splash dmg (problem being that microbial hydras lose to like everything else )
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Then he just left...
the count showed 40 scvs dead. I think it would have been tough to hold the double medivac drop coming across the map but like after that may scvs killed why not try to play it out?
On February 26 2021 00:23 Fango wrote: Wtf when I saw the game ending I thought Cure had left
Yeah I feel like he could've made some lings and held the drop? Then just won the game?
I agree my brain immediately said "ah ok Cure doesn't wanna play a game with 15 SCVs at 7 minutes fair enough go next" Then I realized it said "Victory Cure"...
Gotta say it feels quite good to see rogue playing like this, while i was recently really wondering why no zerg opted to do this vs the void ray turtle.
On February 26 2021 00:26 darklycid wrote: Gotta say it feels quite good to see rogue playing like this, while i was recently really wondering why no zerg opted to do this vs the void ray turtle.
On February 26 2021 00:26 darklycid wrote: Gotta say it feels quite good to see rogue playing like this, while i was recently really wondering why no zerg opted to do this vs the void ray turtle.
On February 26 2021 00:26 darklycid wrote: Gotta say it feels quite good to see rogue playing like this, while i was recently really wondering why no zerg opted to do this vs the void ray turtle.
eh I'm questioning Stats' army comp a lot here
talking bout the ling bane queen earlygame i think that's quite good as you get up to the important lategame units earlier vs hydra styles wher you get lurkers etc which look mostly useless in lategames.
On February 26 2021 00:26 darklycid wrote: Gotta say it feels quite good to see rogue playing like this, while i was recently really wondering why no zerg opted to do this vs the void ray turtle.
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Then he just left...
the count showed 40 scvs dead. I think it would have been tough to hold the double medivac drop coming across the map but like after that may scvs killed why not try to play it out?
On February 26 2021 00:23 Fango wrote: Wtf when I saw the game ending I thought Cure had left
I agree my brain immediately said "ah ok Cure doesn't wanna play a game with 15 SCVs at 7 minutes fair enough go next" Then I realized it said "Victory Cure"...
Is this a bigger or smaller blunder than Solar winning a 40 minute game and then getting nuked?
On February 25 2021 23:26 Fango wrote: Another edition of Stats being consistently great in the big events despite the community believing someone else is the best protoss for some reason?
Are you implying that there wasn't a valid reason for people to think Trap was the best
Yeah, Zest and Stats have always performed better at the big events. Seeing Trap finally winning is great but at Katowice it's usually the same players who step up.
I mean you're really working that 20/20 hindsight but I dunno how we're supposed to just ignore the state of Protoss over the last four months and guess that whoever did better at last Katowice is the best. And by that logic we should also have been really hyping sOs I guess
sOs hasn't been a big game player since HotS. Stats has been for all of LotV, Trap hasn't ever.
Doing well under pressure and when it matters is different to just being a good player. I felt the same way about Cure last year. He had the hype but didn't "feel" like one of those champions.
are we just pretending that GSL Super Tournaments are tiny tournaments? Especially considering those were in studio and this is online
OK he didn’t win either but there is the small matter of Trap making 2 GSL finals too, he’s got a pretty solid CV
Katowice is great but I feel even more so than Blizzcon for whatever reason it’s the big crowning tournament where the best over the year don’t always perform and players who’ve done relatively little over the whole season make deep runs.
I mean Trap had a really disastrous Katowice but he’s had a great year/18 months, likewise Zest’s run last time round didn’t mean he’d been a consistently great player.
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Then he just left...
the count showed 40 scvs dead. I think it would have been tough to hold the double medivac drop coming across the map but like after that may scvs killed why not try to play it out?
On February 26 2021 00:23 Fango wrote: Wtf when I saw the game ending I thought Cure had left
I agree my brain immediately said "ah ok Cure doesn't wanna play a game with 15 SCVs at 7 minutes fair enough go next" Then I realized it said "Victory Cure"...
Is this a bigger or smaller blunder than Solar winning a 40 minute game and then getting nuked?
I find Solar's mistake to be more understandable and sympathetic. Tough call to say which one was technically the bigger blunder but I imagine they will both make a "top mistakes of 2021" list
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Then he just left...
the count showed 40 scvs dead. I think it would have been tough to hold the double medivac drop coming across the map but like after that may scvs killed why not try to play it out?
On February 26 2021 00:23 Fango wrote: Wtf when I saw the game ending I thought Cure had left
I agree my brain immediately said "ah ok Cure doesn't wanna play a game with 15 SCVs at 7 minutes fair enough go next" Then I realized it said "Victory Cure"...
Is this a bigger or smaller blunder than Solar winning a 40 minute game and then getting nuked?
I find Solar's mistake to be more understandable and sympathetic. Tough call to say which one was technically the bigger blunder but I imagine they will both make a "top mistakes of 2021" list
It cost Solar his chance at the playoffs, it's gonna be painful if it does the same for Rag
On February 26 2021 00:34 Captain Peabody wrote: rogue has just looked so in control today
honestly in the end it was closer than it maybe should have but imo it's more a testament of Stats' fighting spirit and resilience than of Rogue not playing well. Peak Rogue ? Hard to say. Good Rogue ? Hell yeah, and that's terrific news for the tourney
This felt like bit of trolling from Rogue. From the position he was in he could have won much sooner and much easier. That queen walk and hydra remax looked so stupid. His early/mid game looked extremely good so far though. Happy to see that
What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
I may be late on the meta but zergling floods don't work at all anymore ? We used to see so many of them and I can't remember the last time a Z tried one vP
On February 26 2021 00:34 Captain Peabody wrote: rogue has just looked so in control today
honestly in the end it was closer than it maybe should have but imo it's more a testament of Stats' fighting spirit and resilience than of Rogue not playing well. Peak Rogue ? Hard to say. Good Rogue ? Hell yeah, and that's terrific news for the tourney
full disclosure, I've never been a rogue fan, I will never forgive him for that one GSL final where he just nydused every game. but his form today is giving me flashbacks, which yeah, is probably good for the tournament.
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
On February 26 2021 00:42 Xamo wrote: How good is Rogue at ZvZ? Just trying to guess who's gonnas win it all
Usually he embarasses Dark every single time but loses to Serral. But Dark looks like a different beast (well, the same beast from 2019 and 2016) this event so who knows
On February 26 2021 00:38 [PkF] Wire wrote: I may be late on the meta but zergling floods don't work at all anymore ? We used to see so many of them and I can't remember the last time a Z tried one vP
lingflood is weakest in stargate meta because sg openings are the best vs them, they can still work tho if protoss makes bad mistakes
On February 26 2021 00:42 Xamo wrote: How good is Rogue at ZvZ? Just trying to guess who's gonnas win it all
Usually he embarasses Dark every single time but loses to Serral. But Dark looks like a different beast (well, the same beast from 2019 and 2016) this event so who knows
I feel like Serral's ZvZ would match better stylistically against Rogue than against Dark, but at the same time Rogue is a very flexible player who could just emulate Dark and Reynor's approach to Serral.
On February 26 2021 00:42 Xamo wrote: How good is Rogue at ZvZ? Just trying to guess who's gonnas win it all
Usually he embarasses Dark every single time but loses to Serral. But Dark looks like a different beast (well, the same beast from 2019 and 2016) this event so who knows
He beats serral at the doyou cup (might mispronounce the name of the event), isn't it their last confrontation ?
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
On February 26 2021 00:50 deacon.frost wrote: After the foreigner .... hope rising(especially yesterday) Neeb is 0:2 already? Worth watching or stomps?
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
On February 26 2021 00:50 deacon.frost wrote: After the foreigner .... hope rising(especially yesterday) Neeb is 0:2 already? Worth watching or stomps?
Stomps.
Damn, I would like to see Neeb rise to the power again
I was actually more concerned for Rogue vs PartinG than vs Stats, I haven't checked the h2h but I'm pretty sure PartinG has a history of winning series vs Rogue when he really wasn't supposed to. So let's see if he can confirm.
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
Missed this game, what happened?
Rag went for a queen roach allin, killed most of Cure's workers to put himself up 45 to 15 while on three bases, then just left the game.
On February 26 2021 00:50 deacon.frost wrote: After the foreigner .... hope rising(especially yesterday) Neeb is 0:2 already? Worth watching or stomps?
Stomps.
Damn, I would like to see Neeb rise to the power again
bad days for foreign tosses. We just lack a clem/reynor/serral on toss side right now.
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
On February 26 2021 00:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: IdrA gg from Ragnarok ? I wasn't watching
Ragnarok did the Queen drop roach ravager all in. He killed thirty something SCVs and totally crippled Cure was up something like 50 drones to 15 SCVs. He had three bases and his tech was fine/took no damage himself at home.
Then he just left...
Damn that is crazy. Idra levels of misreading the game state?
On February 26 2021 00:50 deacon.frost wrote: After the foreigner .... hope rising(especially yesterday) Neeb is 0:2 already? Worth watching or stomps?
Stomps.
Damn, I would like to see Neeb rise to the power again
bad days for foreign tosses. We just lack a clem/reynor/serral on toss side right now.
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
Missed this game, what happened?
Rag went for a queen roach allin, killed most of Cure's workers to put himself up 45 to 15 while on three bases, then just left the game.
Its called allin, its good sportsmanship to leave after it gets cleaned up.
On February 26 2021 00:42 Xamo wrote: How good is Rogue at ZvZ? Just trying to guess who's gonnas win it all
IMO Rogue's best match up is ZvZ, he tends to perform at his best when Zerg is strong.
He got the tag as a "patch Zerg" for a reason after all.
I feel like Rogue's best MU is probably PvZ when he's on form. Even if all time peak form I can see him losing to Serral or Reynor, but I can't see him losing to protoss.
On February 26 2021 00:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: What were the most memorable moments from IEM Katowice 2021 so far?
- Maru kills units worth 84 supply of Solar with a single nuke. - Astrea builds a proxy Nexus in Trap's base and then recalls several Probes to cannon rush. - Rogue does the Microbial Queen Walk against Stats.
Add in Ragnarok just beating Cure then leaving the game
Missed this game, what happened?
looks like theyre going over it on main stream now
On February 26 2021 00:50 deacon.frost wrote: After the foreigner .... hope rising(especially yesterday) Neeb is 0:2 already? Worth watching or stomps?
Stomps.
Damn, I would like to see Neeb rise to the power again
bad days for foreign tosses. We just lack a clem/reynor/serral on toss side right now.
MaxPax probably has the potential ?
Maybe right now he still is playing too "gambely" for my taste.
honestly he could have played on but I think Rag was dead. How does he deal with the stim 1/1, while Cure can just leave his tank and his prod at home (with 3 orbitals) ? He should have tried, especially in WCS finals, but I think his call was correct
On February 26 2021 00:38 [PkF] Wire wrote: I may be late on the meta but zergling floods don't work at all anymore ? We used to see so many of them and I can't remember the last time a Z tried one vP
Rogue is saving that build for the finals Rogue special shitshow
On February 26 2021 00:56 Charoisaur wrote: Ok I guess he just didn't realize how many workers he killed
Yeah it was playable for Cure providing he gets damage done with the 16 marine drop, but if Rag knew the worker difference he wouldn't have left surely
On February 26 2021 00:57 [PkF] Wire wrote: honestly he could have played on but I think Rag was dead. How does he deal with the stim 1/1, while Cure can just leave his tank and his prod at home ? He should have tried, especially in WCS finals, but I think his call was correct
hmm I think it would've been maybe 60/40 for Cure. but Rag didn't know how many workers he killed, if he killed like 8 scvs less then leaving would be correct
On February 26 2021 00:57 [PkF] Wire wrote: honestly he could have played on but I think Rag was dead. How does he deal with the stim 1/1, while Cure can just leave his tank and his prod at home ? He should have tried, especially in WCS finals, but I think his call was correct
I mean he had enough lings at home to defend against the double drop. And I know that his situation at home wasn't great but you know you've killed a ton of SCVs and you forced the third back into his own base...
I get that Rag's GG wasn't as bad as I originally thought but I honestly think he 100% could've won that game and in 2 minutes could've been well ahead
Based on how they've been playing so far, it looks like Rogue is almost guaranteed to make it out of this group, and it looks like Neeb is almost guaranteed to not make it out of this group.
dunno how good that drop build from Ragnarok is but I have to say I'm far more impressed by Korean Z players homework vs void rays than European Zergs'
people throwing around the match fix accusation for cure so easily is so disgusting to me, its like these people have no idea what impact it had on this game :/
On February 26 2021 01:25 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people throwing around the match fix accusation for cure so easily is so disgusting to me, its like these people have no idea what impact it had on this game :/
Which games caused this accusation? I've been seeing it everywhere.
On February 26 2021 01:25 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people throwing around the match fix accusation for cure so easily is so disgusting to me, its like these people have no idea what impact it had on this game :/
Which games caused this accusation? I've been seeing it everywhere.
there was the quarterfinal in gsl ST1 vs parting where he was just completly off his game, then the game vs ragnarok today where he gged to early, see earlier in the thread for that
On February 26 2021 01:25 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people throwing around the match fix accusation for cure so easily is so disgusting to me, its like these people have no idea what impact it had on this game :/
Which games caused this accusation? I've been seeing it everywhere.
there was the quarterfinal in gsl ST1 vs parting where he was just completly off his game, then the game vs ragnarok today where he gged to early, see earlier in the thread for that
On February 26 2021 01:25 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people throwing around the match fix accusation for cure so easily is so disgusting to me, its like these people have no idea what impact it had on this game :/
Which games caused this accusation? I've been seeing it everywhere.
there was the quarterfinal in gsl ST1 vs parting where he was just completly off his game, then the game vs ragnarok today where he gged to early, see earlier in the thread for that
how can he gg to early when he wins 2-0? :O
ragnarok not cure gged kinda early and awkardly which makes it even more absurd
On February 26 2021 01:40 Captain Peabody wrote: how do I keep twitch from constantly giving me the purple screen of doom? I'm watching on their site and it keeps interrupting games.
Great game 2 Rogue vs Parting. Rogue had no business surviving for that long. Then he actually had the game suddenly won after a brutal engage but for some reason decided not to win and let Parting catch up with his massive economy. And even then with 30 drones Rogue made it kinda a game for another 10 mins haha. GGs
On February 26 2021 01:08 Nakajin wrote: Huhhh, 2 stargate carrier-glave adept?
Neeb has done fast-carrier shit in tournament games too, just because something loses the first time you see it doesn't mean it's necessarily a meme or doomed to fail every time
On February 26 2021 01:42 MarianoSC2 wrote: Great game 2 Rogue vs Parting. Rogue had no business surviving for that long. Then he actually had the game suddenly won after a brutal engage but for some reason decided not to win and let Parting catch up with his massive economy. And even then with 30 drones Rogue made it kinda a game for another 10 mins haha. GGs
he could (some would say should) have won from a basically lost position, I'm still favorably impressed.
On February 26 2021 01:49 Niravroh wrote: As they talk about players reverting to their natural style when it comes to match point, we see Rogue with a drone drill...
On February 26 2021 01:49 Niravroh wrote: As they talk about players reverting to their natural style when it comes to match point, we see Rogue with a drone drill...
And if you think about it cheese is very natural for Rogue
On February 26 2021 01:49 Niravroh wrote: As they talk about players reverting to their natural style when it comes to match point, we see Rogue with a drone drill...
Hahaha. I mean MOST OF THE TIME....
Rogue has always played lots of early aggression though. It's how he Katowice last year vs Zest.
shit and I said I was more afraid of PartinG than of Stats. Tbh I'm a bit afraid of Neeb too ! Hopefully Rogue doesn't go down after such a fantastic start
On February 26 2021 01:49 Niravroh wrote: As they talk about players reverting to their natural style when it comes to match point, we see Rogue with a drone drill...
And if you think about it cheese is very natural for Rogue
Proxy hatch Rogue and nydus rush Rogue coming back when
On February 26 2021 01:54 [PkF] Wire wrote: and the group is completely wide open now btw. Kinda expected with the pool of players but nice, we should have a lot more fun
Rogue's gotten past the toughest opponents already. Theoretically he should have a better time against Neeb and Ragnarok.
Both Stats and Parting still have to play Cure, so if Cure can pull out some major TvP he can cause some upsets.
On February 26 2021 02:17 darklycid wrote: With the way korean terrans have looked vs toss the last 2 days no wonder they all hate the mu.
just play like Heromarine for God's sake
All paths lead to losing against Zest so what does it matter?
Tbh I didn't expect PartinG to actually fight for 1st in this group.
nah neither did I, although I thought he would qualify (didn't expect Cure nor Neeb to go through). I thought Ragnarok would give Stats and (especially) PartinG a tougher time though
So every single player that went through the open bracket did not make it trough to the group stage. Makes sense, although I was hoping Byun would have a better showing.
On February 26 2021 02:21 True_Spike wrote: So every single player that went through the open bracket did not make it trough to the group stage. Makes sense, although I was hoping Byun would have a better showing.
I guess they could have had a button draw as a group (ByuN in particular) but other than that it reflects a certain degree of stability in players performances throughout the year.
And that the points system works. Apollo wins again.
On February 26 2021 02:29 Obamarauder wrote: how did parting beat rogue? o.O
game 2 he wreckt rogues eco and won in a 30 minute stalker storm disruptor vs viper lurker hydra slugfest game 3 rogue tried to drone drill against void ray opener with parting playing safe
On February 26 2021 02:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: Cure is still pretty doomed. He can't get ahead of PartinG even if he wins, so he's out if Stats 2-0s Neeb which is probable imo
Never count your PvP chickens until they're hatched
So, atm, it looks like Rogue is the only player guaranteed a spot in the next round. Parting/Stats/Cure still have their fate in their own hands. Neeb needs results to go his way to qualify.
On February 26 2021 02:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: the viewership numbers are bonkers yeah. I already asked that before, but is that a good US time ? Maybe Neeb attracted a lot of viewers
The numbers have been steadily increasing since Saturday so I imagine it's just about the tournament getting going and the word spreading. Which is probably quite a bit since we have had a very good group stage.
On February 26 2021 02:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: the viewership numbers are bonkers yeah. I already asked that before, but is that a good US time ? Maybe Neeb attracted a lot of viewers
It's a good time for people who have fuck all to do all day because of lockdown. It wouldn't usually be a particularly good time for NA, no.
On February 26 2021 02:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: the viewership numbers are bonkers yeah. I already asked that before, but is that a good US time ? Maybe Neeb attracted a lot of viewers
The numbers have been steadily increasing since Saturday so I imagine it's just about the tournament getting going and the word spreading. Which is probably quite a bit since we have had a very good group stage.
On February 26 2021 02:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: the viewership numbers are bonkers yeah. I already asked that before, but is that a good US time ? Maybe Neeb attracted a lot of viewers
It's a good time for people who have fuck all to do all day because of lockdown. It wouldn't usually be a particularly good time for NA, no.
thanks guys
yeah with the lockdown I expect extremely good numbers for the elimination phase, and the finals could be exceptional especially if no mirror and at least one foreigner in it ^^
I feel like Cure vs PartinG is the most exiting game to have on the main stream instead of PvP but at least they can get the Neeb views while he's still in it
On February 26 2021 03:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: If Neeb beats Stats 2-0, Neeb advances. If he doesn't (either winning only 2-1 or losing), then Neeb doesn't advance... according to Rotti.
false, if Cure 2-0s PartinG and Neeb 2-0s Stats, Cure and PartinG both advance
On February 26 2021 02:55 Elentos wrote: Shoutout to Submarine btw, 3 games so far in the group stage and 1 in the Ro36.
Grand final game 7 hype!
the dasan station of modern day
Comparatively, the most vetoed maps at the last 5 Blizzcons:
2019 - Ephemeron - 11 games (makes sense, it was the worst Zerg map in a Zerg dominated tournament) 2018 - Fracture, Para Site - 2 and 4 games respectively (these maps didn't see play in Korea until after Blizzcon) 2017 - Catallena - 5 games (Catallena in 2017 was a joke of an idea anyway) 2016 - Apotheosis & Dasan Station - 6 games each, though Dasan would have been game 7 in the finals (terrible maps) 2015 - Dash & Terminal - 2 games (Scrap Station clone at the height of HotS)
On February 26 2021 02:55 Elentos wrote: Shoutout to Submarine btw, 3 games so far in the group stage and 1 in the Ro36.
Grand final game 7 hype!
the dasan station of modern day
Comparatively, the most vetoed maps at the last 5 Blizzcons:
2019 - Ephemeron - 11 games (makes sense, it was the worst Zerg map in a Zerg dominated tournament) 2018 - Fracture, Para Site - 2 and 4 games respectively (these maps didn't see play in Korea until after Blizzcon) 2017 - Catallena - 5 games (Catallena in 2017 was a joke of an idea anyway) 2016 - Apotheosis & Dasan Station - 6 games each, though Dasan would have been game 7 in the finals (terrible maps) 2015 - Dash & Terminal - 2 games (Scrap Station clone at the height of HotS)
On February 26 2021 02:55 Elentos wrote: Shoutout to Submarine btw, 3 games so far in the group stage and 1 in the Ro36.
Grand final game 7 hype!
the dasan station of modern day
Comparatively, the most vetoed maps at the last 5 Blizzcons:
2019 - Ephemeron - 11 games (makes sense, it was the worst Zerg map in a Zerg dominated tournament) 2018 - Fracture, Para Site - 2 and 4 games respectively (these maps didn't see play in Korea until after Blizzcon) 2017 - Catallena - 5 games (Catallena in 2017 was a joke of an idea anyway) 2016 - Apotheosis & Dasan Station - 6 games each, though Dasan would have been game 7 in the finals (terrible maps) 2015 - Dash & Terminal - 2 games (Scrap Station clone at the height of HotS)
Out of all of these the only one I can actually remember well was Dash & Terminal because sOs tempest rushed it in the finals.
On February 26 2021 03:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: poor Harstem with the series no one cares about
it really matters tho for ro12 or ro8 seeding
ofc but the stakes were far more attractive with Cure - PartinG and Neeb - Stats. With how the first maps played out Harstem's series is actually the only one that matters now ^^
I really want to see Reynor paired with Stats or PartinG in the ro12. He can't be happy with what he showed yesterday in ZvP, I'm sure he can do better than that
Cure will kick himself so hard for his loss vs Neeb. Didn't see the games but I'm pretty sure he didn't play his best when you see what he's able to pull off vs Stats / PartinG
On February 26 2021 03:34 Fango wrote: Getting 3rd means you play Maru, Serral, or Reynor Getting 2nd means you play Clem, HeroMarine, or INno
Yeah, getting 2nd is actually a big deal.
2nds are paired with 3rds ?
Yeah, in the ro12 2nds are paired with 3rds, and you can't be matched with someone from your own group.
ok thanks ! You're right in that case, that's a huge deal.
Yeah it worked out this time with the 2nd slot players being quite a bit stronger than the 3rd slot players. Some tournaments it's a lot more ambiguous or in some cases players would even rather finish third than second.
Zest in the 2nd half looks weird what with the lack of potential PvPs
I give him rather high chances to go to the finals but like 0% chances to win
But if he kills everyone along the way he should still be ahead of them
I didn't think of it that way, rather of chances to win the tourney and honestly even in that case I would just switch him with Reynor, maybe ahead of one of the Terrans, but definitely not higher
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
yeah lower bracket easiest bracket
well Clem into Zest looks extremely dangerous for Serral to me
Pretty much anything would be dangerous, but I'd still favor Serral over any non-zerg. While it wasn't possible, TY or Maru would probably be easier Terrans for Serral than Clem based on history.
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
Yeah literally every threat to Serral (Stats, Reynor, Maru, Rogue, Dark) is on the other side of the bracket.
I dunno why you would mention Stats and Maru as threats but not Zest or Clem
same, for me Zest and Clem are far more dangerous. For me the chances of Serral in the semis are below 30%. If he gets there though, it's free ticket to the finals
Serral got to avoid Reynor Rogue and Dark on his side of the bracket, but got the worst opponent for sure. Maru got the free ticket to the RO8 but his matches vs Rogue are usually close. Reynor has a extremely hard path to the finals.
Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
beacuse by far weakest matchup of serral is zvz and he got to avoid reynor dark rogue to get to the finals
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
I see Clem beating Serral (and everyone in France goes crazy, OG casters lose it etc) only to then getting mauled by Zest who then beats TY in a rather close match and loses 4-1 to whichever Zerg won the other side of the bracket
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
Yeah literally every threat to Serral (Stats, Reynor, Maru, Rogue, Dark) is on the other side of the bracket.
I dunno why you would mention Stats and Maru as threats but not Zest or Clem
You'd take Zest and Clem over Stats and Maru?
Personally I'd bet on Serral to beat any T or P but if any of them could beat him it would be those two (now that Trap is out).
Zest is clearly better than Stats atm (outside of PvP) and between Clem and Maru at least Clem-Serral is on even ping.
Maybe Zest has some snipe builds like last year. I can't see Serral losing to a terran unless they go god mode, which we know Maru can do but I'm not sure for Clem.
The top 3 threats (and in my mind the real ones) to Serral were Reynor, Dark, and Rogue anyway. And all three of them are on the other side.
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
I see Clem beating Serral, getting mauled by Zest who then beats TY in a rather close match and loses 4-1 to whichever Zerg won the other side of the bracket
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
Its not easy, Clem has proven he can beat him consistently and Zest is on fire.
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
Yeah literally every threat to Serral (Stats, Reynor, Maru, Rogue, Dark) is on the other side of the bracket.
I dunno why you would mention Stats and Maru as threats but not Zest or Clem
You'd take Zest and Clem over Stats and Maru?
Personally I'd bet on Serral to beat any T or P but if any of them could beat him it would be those two (now that Trap is out).
Zest is clearly better than Stats atm (outside of PvP) and between Clem and Maru at least Clem-Serral is on even ping.
Maybe Zest has some snipe builds like last year. I can't see Serral losing to a terran unless they go god mode, which we know Maru can do but I'm not sure for Clem.
The top 3 threats (and in my mind the real ones) to Serral were Reynor, Dark, and Rogue anyway. And all three of them are on the other side.
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
I see Clem beating Serral (and everyone in France goes crazy, OG casters lose it etc) only to then getting mauled by Zest who then beats TY in a rather close match and loses 4-1 to whichever Zerg won the other side of the bracket
Katowice being Katowice, this is probably the most likely outcome
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
I see Clem beating Serral, getting mauled by Zest who then beats TY in a rather close match and loses 4-1 to whichever Zerg won the other side of the bracket
On February 26 2021 04:14 Poopi wrote: Why people think this is easy for Serral? Clem is probably feeling great since he can beat any zerg in the world when the ping is low, I'd say it's 60-40 for Clem, Serral is probably out in ro12...
I see Clem beating Serral, getting mauled by Zest who then beats TY in a rather close match and loses 4-1 to whichever Zerg won the other side of the bracket
Sounds about right.
Except the part where Zest vs TY is close.
hahaha
felt the need to add something not too predictable
anyway except Maru - Heromarine (and let's be real, I wouldn't have been too excited about any of the possible Gabe matches) this should be a really fun day tomorrow. Can't wait for EU to be in shambles after both Reynor and Serral are out in the ro12 haha
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
Yeah literally every threat to Serral (Stats, Reynor, Maru, Rogue, Dark) is on the other side of the bracket.
I dunno why you would mention Stats and Maru as threats but not Zest or Clem
You'd take Zest and Clem over Stats and Maru?
Personally I'd bet on Serral to beat any T or P but if any of them could beat him it would be those two (now that Trap is out).
Zest is clearly better than Stats atm (outside of PvP) and between Clem and Maru at least Clem-Serral is on even ping.
Maybe Zest has some snipe builds like last year. I can't see Serral losing to a terran unless they go god mode, which we know Maru can do but I'm not sure for Clem.
The top 3 threats (and in my mind the real ones) to Serral were Reynor, Dark, and Rogue anyway. And all three of them are on the other side.
I'm not sure about calling them snipe builds. I mean he beat 4 Zergs in the group stage with his adepts and still managed to win 2 games with them against Serral.
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
Fair enough, haven't seen Group A unfortunately. Hopefully all the matches will be close and entertaining but I still think that it's gonna be Dark/Rogue vs Serral
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
Yeah literally every threat to Serral (Stats, Reynor, Maru, Rogue, Dark) is on the other side of the bracket.
I dunno why you would mention Stats and Maru as threats but not Zest or Clem
You'd take Zest and Clem over Stats and Maru?
Personally I'd bet on Serral to beat any T or P but if any of them could beat him it would be those two (now that Trap is out).
Zest is clearly better than Stats atm (outside of PvP) and between Clem and Maru at least Clem-Serral is on even ping.
Maybe Zest has some snipe builds like last year. I can't see Serral losing to a terran unless they go god mode, which we know Maru can do but I'm not sure for Clem.
The top 3 threats (and in my mind the real ones) to Serral were Reynor, Dark, and Rogue anyway. And all three of them are on the other side.
I'm not sure about calling them snipe builds. I mean he beat 4 Zergs in the group stage with his adepts and still managed to win 2 games with them against Serral.
I just remember him trying the same stuff against Rogue in the finals and getting demolished.
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
Fair enough, haven't seen Group A unfortunately. Hopefully all the matches will be close and entertaining but I still think that it's gonna be Dark/Rogue vs Serral
Oh you have to watch the first game of Maru vs Solar most definitely. One for the ages.
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
Fair enough, haven't seen Group A unfortunately. Hopefully all the matches will be close and entertaining but I still think that it's gonna be Dark/Rogue vs Serral
Oh you have to watch the first game of Maru vs Solar most definitely. One for the ages.
On February 26 2021 04:08 dysenterymd wrote: Great bracket for Serral, no Zerg until the finals. Still won't be easy of course.
Yeah literally every threat to Serral (Stats, Reynor, Maru, Rogue, Dark) is on the other side of the bracket.
I dunno why you would mention Stats and Maru as threats but not Zest or Clem
You'd take Zest and Clem over Stats and Maru?
Personally I'd bet on Serral to beat any T or P but if any of them could beat him it would be those two (now that Trap is out).
Zest is clearly better than Stats atm (outside of PvP) and between Clem and Maru at least Clem-Serral is on even ping.
Maybe Zest has some snipe builds like last year. I can't see Serral losing to a terran unless they go god mode, which we know Maru can do but I'm not sure for Clem.
The top 3 threats (and in my mind the real ones) to Serral were Reynor, Dark, and Rogue anyway. And all three of them are on the other side.
I'm not sure about calling them snipe builds. I mean he beat 4 Zergs in the group stage with his adepts and still managed to win 2 games with them against Serral.
I just remember him trying the same stuff against Rogue in the finals and getting demolished.
Rogue also had first-hand experience from the group stage and 8 other successful adept games to look at before he decided to all-in before glaives every game
Stats 3-1 Reynor (in a very straight series) Maru 3-0 HM INno 2-3 PartinG (and in an especially disgusting way after INno goes up 2-0) Serral 2-3 Clem (in the only good series of the day)
Dark 3-0 Stats Rogue 3-0 Maru (everyone hypes the series like crazy, Rogue smashes the first macro game and then Maru fails two proxies, the series is over in less than 30 minutes) TY 3-2 PartinG (PartinG gets very far ahead in the decisive game but messes up horribly and loses a basetrade from a won position) Zest 3-0 Clem
Dark - Rogue 2-3 Zest - TY 3-2 (TY wins two games with REALLY strange builds, notably a ridiculous one base all-in)
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
To add perspective though Solar also beat ByuN and should have beaten Maru and 3 of the Terrans Serral beat haven't been as good as Clem at any point in their life
One final shoutout again to the Open Bracket players with their combined score of 4-16, 11-34. It was nice of you to join us but it just didn't work out.
Also, I haven't seen anyone mention this, but 3/4 of the players already seeded into the Ro8 by winning their groups are from DPG. DPG must be very happy with their lineup now, especially with the Rogue pickup after Jinair disbanded.
On February 26 2021 04:39 Elentos wrote: One final shoutout again to the Open Bracket players with their combined score of 4-16, 11-34. It was nice of you to join us but it just didn't work out.
Cool, shows that it perhaps matters who accumulated the most points over the year ^^
On February 26 2021 04:16 egrimm wrote: Didn't Serral went 8-0 against Terran in the group whereas Clem lost his only TvZ 1-2 against Solar who didn't get out of the group?
Well Clem had a lot of hard matches before the Solar games, and ping affected him. Clem dominated Serral several times in WCS.
On February 26 2021 04:39 Elentos wrote: One final shoutout again to the Open Bracket players with their combined score of 4-16, 11-34. It was nice of you to join us but it just didn't work out.
In some ways, that is very good news. The qualification system worked, and the tournament did not have to be bigger.
On February 26 2021 04:39 Elentos wrote: One final shoutout again to the Open Bracket players with their combined score of 4-16, 11-34. It was nice of you to join us but it just didn't work out.
In some ways, that is very good news. The qualification system worked, and the tournament did not have to be bigger.
I wonder how much fatigue played into this poor performance, especially for the koreans who had to play more games at a weird schedule.
Why do people think this bracket is rigged for Serral lol?
He will be immediately going up against Clem and then (if he wins) Zest, two people who are extremely strong and HAVE BEATEN him in recent high profile tournaments. I don't think either of Clem/Zest will be necessarily easier than going against Reynor.
He's lucky to have avoided Dark, but there's a 66% he would avoid him until Finals because he played him in group stages. And Stats is his perpetual beating bag (except one 2-3 loss), so is Maru, and I think he would be favored against Rogue as well.
On February 26 2021 08:59 Pandain wrote: Why do people think this bracket is rigged for Serral lol?
He will be immediately going up against Clem and then (if he wins) Zest, two people who are extremely strong and HAVE BEATEN him in recent high profile tournaments. I don't think either of Clem/Zest will be necessarily easier than going against Reynor.
He's lucky to have avoided Dark, but there's a 66% he would avoid him until Finals because he played him in group stages. And Stats is his perpetual beating bag (except one 2-3 loss), so is Maru, and I think he would be favored against Rogue as well.
Yeah it’s a bit weird I mean Zest is looking good and took him out last Katowice and Clem has handed him some big defeats this year.
Serral is one of the better matchups Clem could have hoped for IMO, even though Serral is a monster. Clem gets his best matchup without ping vs a guy who with Reynor had their mental stranglehold broken by Clem already.
Zerg record v Terran is pretty insane this tournament yes, still think it’s one of the best matchups Clem could have got. Dark/Rogue no, bad draw, Clem’s style is so much about getting consistently good trades through micro magic that I think cross server neuters that somewhat. He played well but ultimately Maru outclassed him at King of Battles, Inno is pretty formidable in TvT, in theory Stats’ style is ideally suited to face him, Parting is formidable in PvT when he turns it on.
Sounds a bit strange given Reynor and Serral could be in the mix to win the thing but I think they’re two of the best opponents for Clem.
I think if you’re drawing a guy who has already bested you in high stakes tournament play and is playing his best matchup and next up is potentially the guy who took you out last year and seems to be on a tear that’s not a good draw at all.
Avoiding Dark is good sure, but honestly for the tournament I think it’s a good draw too, we get to potentially see more of what the two can offer in vT and vP and if they come through well, the ultimate stakes are on a later Zerg mirror.
EPT
IEM Katowice/2021
Main Stream | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1099.jpg)
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Both are killing it. Pretty much have to mute the main stream if Rotti isn't one of the casters though lmao.
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