EPT$5,000 - Stay At HomeStory Cup #2 by TaKeTV - Page 24
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Lucasmus
35 Posts
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JJH777
United States4418 Posts
On June 14 2020 02:45 -KG- wrote: Guess it depends how we define Toss being "fine". It's good they get some deep runs now and then so from the viewer perspective they are not absent. But in the end it's about winning championships. We can ask any pro player in any sport if it didn't feel good getting a 2nd or at least coming close... It just seems like an uphill battle and have for a very long time now. It's not really "now and then". In the last few years Protoss has been in the finals of 5 out of the 7 GSLs, every IEM, all super tournaments besides the most recent one, a blizzcon and GSL vs the World. Considering how few premier tournaments there are nowadays that is actually a lot for that period. They also consistently have great ro8 representation. For whatever reason they just can't close out events regularly. If you really want to see a race that was statistically bad look at Terrans ro8 representation for 2018 and 2019. Most pro players would agree that judging balance on the final match rather than the overall tournament representation is silly. | ||
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Elentos
55581 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:06 ZigguratOfUr wrote: For sure, but it's hard to be too sanguine about this patch achieving what the previous 5 or so haven't though. How many times has Protoss actually been buffed without the buff in question getting reverted over the last few years? The last year-end patch nerfed Zerg more than buffing Protoss. We had robo buffs getting reverted, stalker buffs getting reverted and I'm sure there's more. Feel like Protoss players have been left to fend for their own for a long time and they've come up with a surprising variety of stuff to win with all things considered. Now that Blizzard actually seems willing to help them maybe they can be saved yet. | ||
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aringadingding
481 Posts
[QUOTE]On June 14 2020 03:00 Elentos wrote: [QUOTE]On June 14 2020 02:57 ZigguratOfUr wrote: [QUOTE]On June 14 2020 02:50 fastr wrote: [QUOTE]On June 14 2020 02:45 Z3nith wrote: [QUOTE]On June 14 2020 02:33 fastr wrote: This has been a very promising tournament balance-wise. We got a 5-6-5, 3-3-3, 2-2-2 race distribution in Ro16, Ro8 and Ro6 respectively. No match-up winrate over 54/46. Yet here come the mouth-breathers complaining about 0 protoss in the Ro4 when one of them literally gave up due to internet issues, and the other one narrowly lost 2-3 against Clem who played an incredible series. Some people will find any excuse to whine.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure we can take much from balance considering that the patch was only released a day before the tournament. I expect for the next few weeks PvT in particular is going to be rather volatile as the blink stalker tactic isn't going to stick around and Protoss players will adjust to the heavy widowmine harass.[/QUOTE] Sure, that's why I said promising. Protoss will adjust to the widowmine change and Terran will adapt to the gigachad battery. From the games I've seen, TvP has been better this tournament with less siege tanks allin and more late game[/QUOTE] We've all heard that one before. And yet Protoss still hasn't won anything worth mentioning since last summer, and has been doing badly since 2017.[/QUOTE] And yet the patch was released 3 days ago, the map pool is entirely new and I don't see why we can't hold off on the complaints until at least GSL starts up again or something.[/QUOTE] do you actually fear toss might get a buff, because of twitch comments :D ? Unfortunately toss is in a position that it is the race with strong (expensive) units, and hence many people will think that means toss is op... maybe poeple doesnt consider anything else. The whine if toss might seem strong during "normal" games, but end up with the (normal) terran whine and cries as well as Z whine ... so i guess you dont have to worry about that. What i fear is that toss yet again is forced into a position to make insane strategies, that are essentially super risky, but look strong when they succeed and after that people think toss is op again after winning those games. (even though they will not win any bigger tourney in the long run) But sure, hopefully the patch might settle down into something good. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote: No one knows what a 'gimmick' or a 'band-aid' fix is. At this point it just designate any change that people don't like. Warpgate brings many problems to the game. That's why protoss was/is balanced around gimmicks like MSC/shield batteries etc. I would rather have warpgate removed and buffed Gate units | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:16 Z3nith wrote: The observer nerf came about because of Terrans whining that it was frustrating having to chase them around with scans. Personally I want to see the Protoss get the stalker buff that got quickly reverted in I think 2018. Terran just couldn't beat Protoss with that one and it doesn't help PvZ in a macro game, so yeah no. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Terran just couldn't beat Protoss with that one and it doesn't help PvZ in a macro game, so yeah no. As I recall it was actually very effective against Zerglings. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:20 Z3nith wrote: As I recall it was actually very effective against Zerglings. Yeah you could all-in zerg pretty well with that. In a macro game stalkers were still pretty bad. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:22 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Yeah you could all-in zerg pretty well with that. In a macro game stalkers were still pretty bad. Then what would you suggest? | ||
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Penev
28529 Posts
Colossus headbutt ability | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
I can get behind that. Colossus headbutting Vikings till they go away would be a neat mechanic. | ||
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Elentos
55581 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:25 Z3nith wrote: I can get behind that. Colossus headbutting Vikings till they go away would be a neat mechanic. Speed prism harass with colossi headbutting overlords until Zerg is supply blocked at 98/0 | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary408 Posts
I can't find the rule on the Liquipedia page when the players are from different regions, what server are they playing on? | ||
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Elentos
55581 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:28 bela.mervado wrote: guys I can't find the rule on the Liquipedia page when the players are from different regions, what server are they playing on? EU vs KR is either NA West or NA Central, they switch after every game. | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary408 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:28 Elentos wrote: EU vs KR is either NA West or NA Central, they switch after every game. Thank you. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:25 Elentos wrote: Speed prism harass with colossi headbutting overlords until Zerg is supply blocked at 98/0 If that's not the best Starcraft meta then I don't know what is. | ||
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Elentos
55581 Posts
I feel like if it turns out in a few weeks that Protoss is still pretty weak it's kinda hard to pinpoint what exactly to do to help Protoss without breaking any match-up. Including PvP since the new patch has actually taken a step to make PvP less clownish. | ||
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Elentos
55581 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 14 2020 03:30 Elentos wrote: I feel like if it turns out in a few weeks that Protoss is still pretty weak it's kinda hard to pinpoint what exactly to do to help Protoss without breaking any match-up. Including PvP since the new patch has actually taken a step to make PvP less clownish. Yeah it's tough. There's some stuff you can do like nerf banelings further vs armored, or buff archons but it's all risky. You could do out of the box stuff like bringing back envision so that Protoss can clear creep more easily I guess. | ||
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