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Canada8989 Posts
On November 03 2019 03:25 StarcraftSquall wrote:
I tracked everyone’s point total results from the year for WCS GSL WESG and HSC and this is the final
Top 25 in points earned:
1. Dark 19200
2. Serral 19150
3. Reynor 12940
4. Classic 10775
5. Trap 10540
6. Maru 10125
7. soO 9350
8. Stats 7900
9. Rogue 7800
10. Neeb 7725
11. SpeCial 7075
12. INnoVation 6250
13. Elazer 5990
14. TY 5875
15. herO 5850
16. HeRoMaRinE 5235
17. TIME 5170
18. Zest 4375
19. ShoWTimE 4335
20. Solar 3905
21. Dear 3825
22. Scarlett 3530
23. GuMiho 3350
24. RagnaroK 3150
25. Hurricane 2925
Also giving out awards:
Most Improved Player: TIME
Best Terran: Maru
Best Zerg: Dark
Best Protoss: Classic
Most Improved Terran: TIME
Most Improved Zerg: Reynor
Most Improved Protoss: Trap
Best Map of the Year: King’s Cove
(TvZ 104-114, ZvP 127-118, PvT 69-78)
Best Format Change:
WCS Global Finals Ro16 switching to Bo5 and being played at GSL
Best Moment: soO winning IEM
Worst Moment: RIP iNcontroL
Best Matchup of the Year: ZvZ (sorry, guys)
Best Game of the Year: Serral vs soO IEM Katowice G3 on Year Zero
How did you allowed WESG+HSC point by curiosity?
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable
I’ve given up predicting ZvZ, it’s too confusing. It’s supposed to be Dark’s Achilles heel but he put on a clinic here.
Shame about the meta really, Dark is one of the greats but I go into a cold sweat whenever I hear that accursed nydus popping noise.
Classic’s run was really impressive, Serral showed up in good shape and really uncharacteristic strategic blunders cost him against Reynor after sailing past Stats and TIME. Great runs from Dark and Reynor too obviously.
Enjoyed the tournament although hopefully next year the meta is a bit more enjoyable and some Terrans can make it deeper too.
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On November 03 2019 03:40 Nakajin wrote:
How did you allowed WESG+HSC point by curiosity?
Regardless of their non importance in the WCS Standings I consider them important tournaments for measuring a player’s performance throughout the year: I also calculated points for GSL vs The World. Points were also given for the Global Finals. This sheet was designed to judge the player’s overall form throughout the entire 2019 Calendar up to BlizzCon. Quite interesting how close Dark and Serral ended up being too.
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Canada8989 Posts
On November 03 2019 03:47 StarcraftSquall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:40 Nakajin wrote:
How did you allowed WESG+HSC point by curiosity? Regardless of their non importance in the WCS Standings I consider them important tournaments for measuring a player’s performance throughout the year: I also calculated points for GSL vs The World. Points were also given for the Global Finals. This sheet was designed to judge the player’s overall form throughout the entire 2019 Calendar up to BlizzCon. Quite interesting how close Dark and Serral ended up being too.
Oh I fully agree with you, I was literraly asking the how as in how much. Same as a WCS?
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Update on vKor offline winrate (in series) for 2019 :
1. Dark 81.4%
2. Classic 78.4%, what a sendoff !
3. Serral 75.0%
4. Rogue 73.7%
5. Stats 66.7%
Trap 62.2%, Maru 61.5%, Reynor... 38.5%
Dark second player ever to break 80%+ after last year's 84.6% for Serral.
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On November 03 2019 03:52 Nakajin wrote:
Oh I fully agree with you, I was literraly asking the how as in how much. Same as a WCS?
Oh! Basically HSC and GSL vs The World received close to the same points as a GSL Super Tournament and WESG was calculated with a point total similar to a Circuit tournament (Spring, Summer, Fall).
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On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable
I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real.
Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games.
Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it.
On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least.
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Not a bad list. Best moment of the year for me just might have been Classic vs Rogue G5 last night. soO's victory was incredible, but it was a little disheartening that it looked like his victory took the wind out of his sails more than any silver medal ever did. Here's my argument for what Classic's moment had going for it:
- It was the last map win of his professional career (as far as we know)
- It happened in a PvZ meta that was heavily zerg-favored
- It was against Rogue.
---Rogue had never failed to reach the Ro4 in his three previous global finals appearances, and was a previous champion
---Rogue had just won GSL season 3 against a protoss in a clean sweep
---Rogue had openly admitted after the GSL win that Zerg was too strong against Protoss in this patch
- The game itself was a risky balls-to-the walls build with (almost) never-before-seen mass blink DTs in the highest-profile tournament of the year. It was executed beautifully.
- It happened on match point, which adds excitement to any game
No disrespect to soO intended 
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On November 03 2019 03:44 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I’ve given up predicting ZvZ, it’s too confusing. It’s supposed to be Dark’s Achilles heel but he put on a clinic here. Shame about the meta really, Dark is one of the greats but I go into a cold sweat whenever I hear that accursed nydus popping noise. Classic’s run was really impressive, Serral showed up in good shape and really uncharacteristic strategic blunders cost him against Reynor after sailing past Stats and TIME. Great runs from Dark and Reynor too obviously. Enjoyed the tournament although hopefully next year the meta is a bit more enjoyable and some Terrans can make it deeper too.
Same. ZvZ seems so foreign to me but some of them have become a marvel to watch.
Dark's play was just insane. Didn't matter that it was Maru's TvZ, second best euro zvz, or a guns blazing classic.
Everything just bounced off of him. Dark's mechanics in the thunderbird game vs reynor were jaw dropping.
I agree that the nydus abuse in PvZ put a black mark on this blizzcon. I am predicting that zerg will be nerfed into oblivion just like protoss was after this lol.
Classic and dark really stole the show for me. Classic pushed the race to the limits in a dire matchup and played balls to the wall in his last hurrah. Dark just eviscerated everyone in his path (well maybe showtime deserved that first series win lol) and then basically made a mockery of the idea that korean zergs are lagging behind foreign zergs, and brought the trophy back to korea in dominating fashion.
I think serral's play lacks a certain dynamicism that lets him get beat by people who have a lot of experience against him (reynor, stats for example). Serral seems to just try and overwhelm everyone mechanically and his play is very clean. Serral himself once said that he admires dark's dynamic play or something a long those lines
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Canada8989 Posts
On November 03 2019 03:59 StarcraftSquall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:52 Nakajin wrote:
Oh I fully agree with you, I was literraly asking the how as in how much. Same as a WCS? Oh! Basically HSC and GSL vs The World received close to the same points as a GSL Super Tournament and WESG was calculated with a point total similar to a Circuit tournament (Spring, Summer, Fall).
Great, thanks!
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On November 03 2019 04:21 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I’ve given up predicting ZvZ, it’s too confusing. It’s supposed to be Dark’s Achilles heel but he put on a clinic here. Shame about the meta really, Dark is one of the greats but I go into a cold sweat whenever I hear that accursed nydus popping noise. Classic’s run was really impressive, Serral showed up in good shape and really uncharacteristic strategic blunders cost him against Reynor after sailing past Stats and TIME. Great runs from Dark and Reynor too obviously. Enjoyed the tournament although hopefully next year the meta is a bit more enjoyable and some Terrans can make it deeper too. Same. ZvZ seems so foreign to me but some of them have become a marvel to watch. Dark's play was just insane. Didn't matter that it was Maru's TvZ, second best euro zvz, or a guns blazing classic. Everything just bounced off of him. Dark's mechanics in the thunderbird game vs reynor were jaw dropping. I agree that the nydus abuse in PvZ put a black mark on this blizzcon. I am predicting that zerg will be nerfed into oblivion just like protoss was after this lol. Classic and dark really stole the show for me. Classic pushed the race to the limits in a dire matchup and played balls to the wall in his last hurrah. Dark just eviscerated everyone in his path (well maybe showtime deserved that first series win lol) and then basically made a mockery of the idea that korean zergs are lagging behind foreign zergs, and brought the trophy back to korea in dominating fashion. I think serral's play lacks a certain dynamicism that lets him get beat by people who have a lot of experience against him (reynor, stats for example). Serral seems to just try and overwhelm everyone mechanically and his play is very clean. Serral himself once said that he admires dark's dynamic play or something a long those lines
So basically Serral is beatable and he is weaker against certain opponents? Both brilliant and unexpected...
It has been said that EU's approach to ZvZ is better, no more, and Dark beating Reynor certainly won't turn this around by itself.
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On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least.
to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon.
All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics
Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago.
Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs.
I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs.
Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore.
But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive
in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush)
in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark
Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK
Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV
so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv
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Fracking.
Ultralisks.
Who in their right mind still believes ultras are worth anything except for a very specific set of circumstances in ZvT on very specific maps? If you're gonna experiment with such a dumb build, why not do it in a group stage against an easy opponent? What a stupid throw. Still, Serral overall has done very well in the tournament. #1 win% is no small feat. Dark perhaps caught a break; he didn't have to play Serral or Rogue in the grand final. Perhaps Serral could've made it through Reynor if they were playing a Bo7. Overall, the ZvZs in this tournament were extremely exciting. We saw some mechanical gods battle it out with some new, stupid builds. :D
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On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv
Massive gulf mechanically speaking? That's not what I saw. Serral, Maru, Rogue, Inno all had better peaks than Dark in LoTV.
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On November 03 2019 04:57 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv Massive gulf mechanically speaking? That's not what I saw. Serral, Maru, Rogue, Inno all had better peaks than Dark in LoTV.
Dark's control was impeccable. His units were exactly where they needed to be at all times. Reynor was completely outclassed. How do you not look at something like game 4 or 5 and not see the massive gulf in mechanicals?
Inno's peak comes close. I can accept that one. Maru's, rogue's, and Serral's......lol
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On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv
Personally, I like to draw a distinction between LotV peaks in terms of skill and in terms of the quality of tournament results.
In terms of dominance and win rate, I would say:
1. Serral in 2018
2. Dark in 2019
3. INnoVation in 2017
4. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018
5. Maru in 2018
In terms of results, I would say:
1. Maru in 2018
2. Serral in 2018
3. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 (tied with Dark)
3. Dark in 2019 (tied with Rogue)
5. INnoVation in 2017
I now think that Dark is the GOAT of LotV though. Followed by Maru, Stats, Serral and Rogue in no particular order.
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On November 03 2019 05:17 Anc13nt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv Personally, I like to draw a distinction between LotV peaks in terms of skill and in terms of the quality of tournament results. In terms of dominance and win rate, I would say: 1. Serral in 2018 2. Dark in 2019 3. INnoVation in 2017 4. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 5. Maru in 2018 In terms of results, I would say: 1. Maru in 2018 2. Serral in 2018 3. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 (tied with Dark) 3. Dark in 2019 (tied with Rogue) 5. INnoVation in 2017 I now think that Dark is the GOAT of LotV though. Followed by Maru, Stats, Serral and Rogue in no particular order.
Dark is greatest peak in terms of skill imo
Then in terms of tournament results:
1. 2018 Maru
2. 2019 Dark
3. 2017 Innovation
Serral isnt even worth mentioning compared to those 3 tournament results imo
Maru was exposed in 2018 blizzcon though, which is why I dont consider his skill that high, relatively speaking. Maru's 2018 skill is a tier below 2019 dark's, 2017 innovations, 2018 serral's for example imo.
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On November 03 2019 05:30 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 05:17 Anc13nt wrote:On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv Personally, I like to draw a distinction between LotV peaks in terms of skill and in terms of the quality of tournament results. In terms of dominance and win rate, I would say: 1. Serral in 2018 2. Dark in 2019 3. INnoVation in 2017 4. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 5. Maru in 2018 In terms of results, I would say: 1. Maru in 2018 2. Serral in 2018 3. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 (tied with Dark) 3. Dark in 2019 (tied with Rogue) 5. INnoVation in 2017 I now think that Dark is the GOAT of LotV though. Followed by Maru, Stats, Serral and Rogue in no particular order. Dark is greatest peak in terms of skill imo Then in terms of tournament results: 1. 2018 Maru 2. 2019 Dark 3. 2017 Innovation Rogue and serral arent even worth mentioning compared to those 3 tournament results imo Maru was exposed in 2018 blizzcon though, which is why I dont consider his skill high at all. Maru's 2018 skill is a tier below 2019 dark's, 2017 innovations, 2018 serral's for example imo.
I don't get the distinction between skill and results since skill is what leads to results so I will only make 1 list:
1. 2018 Maru
2. 2017 Innovation
3. 2019 Dark
4. 2017-2018 Rogue
5. 2018 Serral
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On November 03 2019 05:30 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 05:17 Anc13nt wrote:On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv Personally, I like to draw a distinction between LotV peaks in terms of skill and in terms of the quality of tournament results. In terms of dominance and win rate, I would say: 1. Serral in 2018 2. Dark in 2019 3. INnoVation in 2017 4. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 5. Maru in 2018 In terms of results, I would say: 1. Maru in 2018 2. Serral in 2018 3. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 (tied with Dark) 3. Dark in 2019 (tied with Rogue) 5. INnoVation in 2017 I now think that Dark is the GOAT of LotV though. Followed by Maru, Stats, Serral and Rogue in no particular order. Dark is greatest peak in terms of skill imo Then in terms of tournament results: 1. 2018 Maru 2. 2019 Dark 3. 2017 Innovation Serral isnt even worth mentioning compared to those 3 tournament results imo Maru was exposed in 2018 blizzcon though, which is why I dont consider his skill that high, relatively speaking. Maru's 2018 skill is a tier below 2019 dark's, 2017 innovations, 2018 serral's for example imo.
I think that's fair opinion. It really depends on how WCS Circuit victories are weighed to be honest. Thinking of it a bit more, I think I'm leaning more to it being a three-way tie between Rogue, Serral and Dark in terms of results.
Edit: If I were to make just one list though (since that is more conventional), it would be:
1. Maru
2. Serral
3. Dark
4. INnoVation (tied with Rogue)
5. Rogue (tied with INnoVation)
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Northern Ireland26714 Posts
On November 03 2019 05:36 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 05:30 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 05:17 Anc13nt wrote:On November 03 2019 04:38 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 04:05 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 03:28 BerserkSword wrote:On November 03 2019 03:01 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 02:36 Obamarauder wrote:
all this "serral wouldve beaten dark" talk is so cringe honestly. So cringe, so cringe, you are right. How cringe were all the "Maru would have nomatched Serral" last year, instead? Also, I see all these experts sure that Dark would have beaten Serral for sure, isn't that cringe? Dark 4-1 Reynor is in contrast with Dark's results in ZvZ in the last 15 months; he dominated this time and totally deserved to win but I think we need many more examples to both say that koreans have solved EU ZvZ and that Dark is at ease in the matchup. Dark built his victory on always being one step ahead of Reynor, who was outmatched strategically way more than mechanically. Both "serral wouldve beaten dark" and "maru wouldve beaten serral" are cringe lol. What we do know is that dark looked better than serral overall and against the same opponent. Reynor was blown out of the water both strategically and mechanically. Dark was playing like a GOD. He had Maru dancing on the palm of his hand and fended off beast mode Classic (i think any other zerg in the world loses to classic playing like that) He made the prodigy reynor, who had just toppled serral and is the prince of european zvz, look like a nobody. Literally drone rush in blizzcon finals. that's how "at ease" he is with the matchup sweep maru without breaking a sweat, sweep classic without breaking a sweat. completely style on the prince of the vaunted european ZvZ unbelievable I already posted stats, EU ZvZ is real. Dark played with absolute swag in these, but could you really recognize the Reynor who beat Serral twice this year(let's be real, it was Serral throwing terribly hard this time, not Reynor proactively taking his victory)? I am quite sure Reynor choked in his first final on such a big stage and that Dark, for once, looked like the champion he is and was always expected to be. Mechanically, Dark lost g3 and won g5; he was very ahead in all the other games. Dark in 2016 seemed to be destined to take over Sc2, his victories should not surprise you at all; still, I am not sold on the fact that he'll be able to keep winning and reach ten Premier titles. He is absolutely on fire right now but it seems to me that you might be reading too much into it. On a side note, last week you were convinced that Showtime played better than Dark, and the general consensus is that Dark would have had a very hard time beating Classic with a balanced PvZ; you spent months(rightfully) complaining, now Dark is apparently having the "strongest peak ever" and no words about balance? Weird to say the least. to be honest i didn't watch all the WCS circuit reynor vs serral matches. I dont like ZvZ. I just watched this time because it's blizzcon. All I saw was a massive gulf between dark's and reynor's mechanics Maybe dark seemed destined to take over sc2 in 2016, but we are talking about today not 3 years ago. Yes I still do believe showtime outplayed dark in that series. Showtime was playing out of his mind. That doesnt take away from Dark's skill, generally speaking. And it doesnt take away from how absurdly well dark played in the playoffs. I agree that Dark would have a very hard time beating classic if protoss wasnt a defanged race. Doesnt take away from Dark's display of ability in the playoffs. Ive gotten banned several times in the last few weeks because of "balance whining" ....I'm tired of getting banned so I dont talk about balance much anymore. But since you find it weird, I will clarify my position - I think ZvT is terran favored and ZvZ is obviously balanced. Zerg is only OP vs Protoss imo (Protoss was overnerfed imo). Dark not only trashed protoss players but dominates literally Maru and ZvZ monsters like soo and reynor. Which makes it more impressive in Blizzcon he 3-2 soo, 3-0 maru, 3-0 classic, and 4-1 reynor (1 came from troll drone rush) in ST2 he 3-1 Maru, 3-1 stats, 3-0 soo, 4-0 TY......another insane list of victims in the face of dark Code S3 he 3-2 TY. Loses to Rogue, eventual champion. OK Code S2 - dominates hero, trap and innovation en route to winning zerg's first code s ever in LotV so yes based on watching him play and the accolades he collected, i think this is the greatest peak in lotv Personally, I like to draw a distinction between LotV peaks in terms of skill and in terms of the quality of tournament results. In terms of dominance and win rate, I would say: 1. Serral in 2018 2. Dark in 2019 3. INnoVation in 2017 4. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 5. Maru in 2018 In terms of results, I would say: 1. Maru in 2018 2. Serral in 2018 3. Rogue in late 2017 to early 2018 (tied with Dark) 3. Dark in 2019 (tied with Rogue) 5. INnoVation in 2017 I now think that Dark is the GOAT of LotV though. Followed by Maru, Stats, Serral and Rogue in no particular order. Dark is greatest peak in terms of skill imo Then in terms of tournament results: 1. 2018 Maru 2. 2019 Dark 3. 2017 Innovation Rogue and serral arent even worth mentioning compared to those 3 tournament results imo Maru was exposed in 2018 blizzcon though, which is why I dont consider his skill high at all. Maru's 2018 skill is a tier below 2019 dark's, 2017 innovations, 2018 serral's for example imo. I don't get the distinction between skill and results since skill is what leads to results so I will only make 1 list: 1. 2018 Maru 2. 2017 Innovation 3. 2019 Dark 4. 2017-2018 Rogue 5. 2018 Serral
It’s frustrating, I like Dark a lot as a personality and a player, he’s one of the greats. The current meta Zerg are incredibly strong
I don’t think this devalues what he’s achieved this year when he’s outperformed his Zerg contemporaries, but I’d have a hard time putting his 2019 ahead of others historically.
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EPT
