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Northern Ireland26246 Posts
On May 23 2019 06:58 mpmaley86 wrote:
Long time lurker (basically forever) but as I get older I need a place to talk SC2 because my love for it is growing. Catching up on group A now! Just felt like posting :3
Welcome, you’ll never truly be a hundred percent lurker ever again!
Yeah I had a complete break with the game for years, no playing no watching. Feels nice to have my passion back and be around others who share it
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On May 23 2019 05:08 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 02:30 seemsgood wrote:On May 22 2019 22:48 BerserkSword wrote:
The interesting thing is that we saw this powerful midgame PvZ play really started to emerge after the carrier, tempest, and high templar got nerfed really hard.
I don't blame protoss players for trying to end the game early when there is pretty much nothing they can do against late game infestor compositions now that carriers are garbage, tempests go down like flies, and feedback got nerfed in half. Protoss even loses out against late game Terran with the buffed BC and Thor that slaughter skytoss. Apple is apple and orange is orange I do say we nerf protoss first then process into addressing it's late game Pro players must play alot of late game vs zerg and Terran like about 2-3 tournaments with a decent amount of late game using Stargate tech before concluding anything because honestly reading your whine post about toss late game time and time again is annoying as fuck and why you still havent gotten nuked for doing that is beyond me. it is tenfond worse than zerg n terran full force whines combined If protoss late is too weak then buff it but protoss players gotta prove it first By stop carting zerg and Terran with templarnrobot tech first ofc It's funny how when Terran were dismantling Protoss with midrange pushes the main problem still was how weak Terran lategame was.
well its because you wont see it works everytime even when your base is near UED earth or right next to artanis's toilet.no actually its really burst in some maps and you can thank uncle blizzard for that kind of map pool in order to archieve thier precious 50% winnrate
On May 23 2019 05:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s nowhere near that because it’s actually kinda obviously true. Terran one is debatable I guess, Zerg definitely seems to be the case.
Vs other whine which is literally any time a Protoss wins a match regardless of how many mistakes their opponent made or how well the Protoss played, that don’t make any kind of sensible suggestions that consider the big knock-on effects those changes could all potentially have.
Templar feedback was a relatively big nerf, Carrier was pretty big. In combination when they’re both big components of Protoss lategame vZ, seems pretty sensible that maybe that’s not an area Protoss want to try to go up against Zerg in.
That top Protoss players seem to have accepted this and ground out fiendish and ever more refined timing attacks seems very much a tactic acceptance of this and a necessity breeds invention kind of scenario.
It’s nowhere near as extreme no, Protoss relied on timing attacks for ages once BL/Infestor matured.
this must be the third time you saying this and i am fully aware of it thanks to you and your GUTS buddy
now its time for dem pro protoss players to prove that by actually playing late game PvZ.this match up was much less shitty when protoss were trying void ray tho
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Northern Ireland26246 Posts
On May 23 2019 09:26 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 05:08 Xain0n wrote:On May 23 2019 02:30 seemsgood wrote:On May 22 2019 22:48 BerserkSword wrote:
The interesting thing is that we saw this powerful midgame PvZ play really started to emerge after the carrier, tempest, and high templar got nerfed really hard.
I don't blame protoss players for trying to end the game early when there is pretty much nothing they can do against late game infestor compositions now that carriers are garbage, tempests go down like flies, and feedback got nerfed in half. Protoss even loses out against late game Terran with the buffed BC and Thor that slaughter skytoss. Apple is apple and orange is orange I do say we nerf protoss first then process into addressing it's late game Pro players must play alot of late game vs zerg and Terran like about 2-3 tournaments with a decent amount of late game using Stargate tech before concluding anything because honestly reading your whine post about toss late game time and time again is annoying as fuck and why you still havent gotten nuked for doing that is beyond me. it is tenfond worse than zerg n terran full force whines combined If protoss late is too weak then buff it but protoss players gotta prove it first By stop carting zerg and Terran with templarnrobot tech first ofc It's funny how when Terran were dismantling Protoss with midrange pushes the main problem still was how weak Terran lategame was. well its because you wont see it works everytime even when your base is near UED earth or right next to artanis's toilet.no actually its really burst in some maps and you can thank uncle blizzard for that kind of map pool in order to archieve thier precious 50% winnrate Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 05:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s nowhere near that because it’s actually kinda obviously true. Terran one is debatable I guess, Zerg definitely seems to be the case.
Vs other whine which is literally any time a Protoss wins a match regardless of how many mistakes their opponent made or how well the Protoss played, that don’t make any kind of sensible suggestions that consider the big knock-on effects those changes could all potentially have.
Templar feedback was a relatively big nerf, Carrier was pretty big. In combination when they’re both big components of Protoss lategame vZ, seems pretty sensible that maybe that’s not an area Protoss want to try to go up against Zerg in.
That top Protoss players seem to have accepted this and ground out fiendish and ever more refined timing attacks seems very much a tactic acceptance of this and a necessity breeds invention kind of scenario.
It’s nowhere near as extreme no, Protoss relied on timing attacks for ages once BL/Infestor matured.
this must be the third time you saying this and i am fully aware of it thanks to you and your GUTS buddy now its time for dem pro protoss players to prove that by actually playing late game PvZ.this match up was much less shitty when protoss were trying void ray tho
Why would they? This isn’t a matter of Protoss players not experimenting and even trying to play late game, it’s the late game they had figured out, is not very good anymore, which is 100% related to balance changes and not meta changes. Carriers are worse, Templars role in zoning out Vipers/Infestors to a degree with feedback is one they don’t fulfil as well.
If Stats, if anyone is that ‘straight up Protoss’ went from employing late-game oriented games against Serral at BlizzCon to never even throwing in a single game in a series against anyone anytime recently (that I’ve seen), maybe it’s just not very smart to do?
If Protoss had a ground-to-air unit even nearly as potent as a Ghost, then yeah theoretically sure. Past a point vs Zerg in lategame they have to take to the skies, and have done in the past prior to balance changes. Parasitic bomb is pretty good when most of your stuff is up there, especially if those units aren’t as strong as they used to be.
Which I don’t even mind all that much, some of the worst periods in the game have involved air blobs.
Terrans have some late game super comps that are extremely hard to get to, or borderline impossible depending upon the level of play. Nobody is saying, for example mass fully upgraded BCs is an easy goal to get to, but in games where players do get there they are bloody good.
GUTS?
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On May 23 2019 10:30 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 09:26 seemsgood wrote:On May 23 2019 05:08 Xain0n wrote:On May 23 2019 02:30 seemsgood wrote:On May 22 2019 22:48 BerserkSword wrote:
The interesting thing is that we saw this powerful midgame PvZ play really started to emerge after the carrier, tempest, and high templar got nerfed really hard.
I don't blame protoss players for trying to end the game early when there is pretty much nothing they can do against late game infestor compositions now that carriers are garbage, tempests go down like flies, and feedback got nerfed in half. Protoss even loses out against late game Terran with the buffed BC and Thor that slaughter skytoss. Apple is apple and orange is orange I do say we nerf protoss first then process into addressing it's late game Pro players must play alot of late game vs zerg and Terran like about 2-3 tournaments with a decent amount of late game using Stargate tech before concluding anything because honestly reading your whine post about toss late game time and time again is annoying as fuck and why you still havent gotten nuked for doing that is beyond me. it is tenfond worse than zerg n terran full force whines combined If protoss late is too weak then buff it but protoss players gotta prove it first By stop carting zerg and Terran with templarnrobot tech first ofc It's funny how when Terran were dismantling Protoss with midrange pushes the main problem still was how weak Terran lategame was. well its because you wont see it works everytime even when your base is near UED earth or right next to artanis's toilet.no actually its really burst in some maps and you can thank uncle blizzard for that kind of map pool in order to archieve thier precious 50% winnrate On May 23 2019 05:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s nowhere near that because it’s actually kinda obviously true. Terran one is debatable I guess, Zerg definitely seems to be the case.
Vs other whine which is literally any time a Protoss wins a match regardless of how many mistakes their opponent made or how well the Protoss played, that don’t make any kind of sensible suggestions that consider the big knock-on effects those changes could all potentially have.
Templar feedback was a relatively big nerf, Carrier was pretty big. In combination when they’re both big components of Protoss lategame vZ, seems pretty sensible that maybe that’s not an area Protoss want to try to go up against Zerg in.
That top Protoss players seem to have accepted this and ground out fiendish and ever more refined timing attacks seems very much a tactic acceptance of this and a necessity breeds invention kind of scenario.
It’s nowhere near as extreme no, Protoss relied on timing attacks for ages once BL/Infestor matured.
this must be the third time you saying this and i am fully aware of it thanks to you and your GUTS buddy now its time for dem pro protoss players to prove that by actually playing late game PvZ.this match up was much less shitty when protoss were trying void ray tho Why would they? This isn’t a matter of Protoss players not experimenting and even trying to play late game, it’s the late game they had figured out, is not very good anymore, which is 100% related to balance changes and not meta changes. Carriers are worse, Templars role in zoning out Vipers/Infestors to a degree with feedback is one they don’t fulfil as well. If Stats, if anyone is that ‘straight up Protoss’ went from employing late-game oriented games against Serral at BlizzCon to never even throwing in a single game in a series against anyone anytime recently (that I’ve seen), maybe it’s just not very smart to do? If Protoss had a ground-to-air unit even nearly as potent as a Ghost, then yeah theoretically sure. Past a point vs Zerg in lategame they have to take to the skies, and have done in the past prior to balance changes. Parasitic bomb is pretty good when most of your stuff is up there, especially if those units aren’t as strong as they used to be. Which I don’t even mind all that much, some of the worst periods in the game have involved air blobs. Terrans have some late game super comps that are extremely hard to get to, or borderline impossible depending upon the level of play. Nobody is saying, for example mass fully upgraded BCs is an easy goal to get to, but in games where players do get there they are bloody good. GUTS?
really ? why not because of the two bases all in build is so strong so protoss can just straight up kill zerg in mid ーnear late game and skytoss aint super strong as they were for protoss to continue abusing it ? but skytoss being underpowered because they got nerf is another story that almost exclusively comes out from you and that guy on this forum without good amount examples to back up cuz your idols are way too busy massing immortals.
blizzard were right at taking terran s fang in early game two times to force them play macro game on certain maps and whatever the current state of macro game TvP is,its a good data for next balance step instead of doing blindless balance change based on wall of texts coming from some random folks like u
so no! i d think skytoss aint OP anymoar but i disagree with every single comment saying that skytoss is underpowered.macro pvz and tvp need to be solved first.2 base all in gotta go
//also u dont need to know the manga character guts cuz i m sure there is one person knows what I mean
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On May 23 2019 06:58 mpmaley86 wrote:
Long time lurker (basically forever) but as I get older I need a place to talk SC2 because my love for it is growing. Catching up on group A now! Just felt like posting :3
Welcome mate! We all know that the true glory of Starcraft is in the LR thread 
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On May 23 2019 07:01 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 06:58 mpmaley86 wrote:
Long time lurker (basically forever) but as I get older I need a place to talk SC2 because my love for it is growing. Catching up on group A now! Just felt like posting :3 Welcome, you’ll never truly be a hundred percent lurker ever again! Yeah I had a complete break with the game for years, no playing no watching. Feels nice to have my passion back and be around others who share it
Found Tasteless's alt
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GSL Artosis old days asthma / ragnarok drawing
GSL Artosis ragnarok destruction
GSL Artosis old player disorded / sign high silver low GM
GSL cheer from canada
GSL Artosis pvp is town of thieves
GSL Artosis waiting for Tasteless approval
GSL Artosis how many towels to wipe out the ocean - audience
GSL Tastosis paper towel - tremors
GSL Classic interview
GSL Audience
GSL THunderbird cheer from canada
GSL 30 nerd
GSL Artosis falling for zerg players / settling down / open fan relationship
GSL Artosis cyclone nydus
GSL Tasteless host of the swarm
GSL Artosis teem of leenocks - Tasteless Artosis's round of 16 Angels
GSL Hurricane interview
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Northern Ireland26246 Posts
On May 23 2019 12:00 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 10:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 09:26 seemsgood wrote:On May 23 2019 05:08 Xain0n wrote:On May 23 2019 02:30 seemsgood wrote:On May 22 2019 22:48 BerserkSword wrote:
The interesting thing is that we saw this powerful midgame PvZ play really started to emerge after the carrier, tempest, and high templar got nerfed really hard.
I don't blame protoss players for trying to end the game early when there is pretty much nothing they can do against late game infestor compositions now that carriers are garbage, tempests go down like flies, and feedback got nerfed in half. Protoss even loses out against late game Terran with the buffed BC and Thor that slaughter skytoss. Apple is apple and orange is orange I do say we nerf protoss first then process into addressing it's late game Pro players must play alot of late game vs zerg and Terran like about 2-3 tournaments with a decent amount of late game using Stargate tech before concluding anything because honestly reading your whine post about toss late game time and time again is annoying as fuck and why you still havent gotten nuked for doing that is beyond me. it is tenfond worse than zerg n terran full force whines combined If protoss late is too weak then buff it but protoss players gotta prove it first By stop carting zerg and Terran with templarnrobot tech first ofc It's funny how when Terran were dismantling Protoss with midrange pushes the main problem still was how weak Terran lategame was. well its because you wont see it works everytime even when your base is near UED earth or right next to artanis's toilet.no actually its really burst in some maps and you can thank uncle blizzard for that kind of map pool in order to archieve thier precious 50% winnrate On May 23 2019 05:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s nowhere near that because it’s actually kinda obviously true. Terran one is debatable I guess, Zerg definitely seems to be the case.
Vs other whine which is literally any time a Protoss wins a match regardless of how many mistakes their opponent made or how well the Protoss played, that don’t make any kind of sensible suggestions that consider the big knock-on effects those changes could all potentially have.
Templar feedback was a relatively big nerf, Carrier was pretty big. In combination when they’re both big components of Protoss lategame vZ, seems pretty sensible that maybe that’s not an area Protoss want to try to go up against Zerg in.
That top Protoss players seem to have accepted this and ground out fiendish and ever more refined timing attacks seems very much a tactic acceptance of this and a necessity breeds invention kind of scenario.
It’s nowhere near as extreme no, Protoss relied on timing attacks for ages once BL/Infestor matured.
this must be the third time you saying this and i am fully aware of it thanks to you and your GUTS buddy now its time for dem pro protoss players to prove that by actually playing late game PvZ.this match up was much less shitty when protoss were trying void ray tho Why would they? This isn’t a matter of Protoss players not experimenting and even trying to play late game, it’s the late game they had figured out, is not very good anymore, which is 100% related to balance changes and not meta changes. Carriers are worse, Templars role in zoning out Vipers/Infestors to a degree with feedback is one they don’t fulfil as well. If Stats, if anyone is that ‘straight up Protoss’ went from employing late-game oriented games against Serral at BlizzCon to never even throwing in a single game in a series against anyone anytime recently (that I’ve seen), maybe it’s just not very smart to do? If Protoss had a ground-to-air unit even nearly as potent as a Ghost, then yeah theoretically sure. Past a point vs Zerg in lategame they have to take to the skies, and have done in the past prior to balance changes. Parasitic bomb is pretty good when most of your stuff is up there, especially if those units aren’t as strong as they used to be. Which I don’t even mind all that much, some of the worst periods in the game have involved air blobs. Terrans have some late game super comps that are extremely hard to get to, or borderline impossible depending upon the level of play. Nobody is saying, for example mass fully upgraded BCs is an easy goal to get to, but in games where players do get there they are bloody good. GUTS? really ? why not because of the two bases all in build is so strong so protoss can just straight up kill zerg in mid ーnear late game and skytoss aint super strong as they were for protoss to continue abusing it ? but skytoss being underpowered because they got nerf is another story that almost exclusively comes out from you and that guy on this forum without good amount examples to back up cuz your idols are way too busy massing immortals. blizzard were right at taking terran s fang in early game two times to force them play macro game on certain maps and whatever the current state of macro game TvP is,its a good data for next balance step instead of doing blindless balance change based on wall of texts coming from some random folks like u so no! i d think skytoss aint OP anymoar but i disagree with every single comment saying that skytoss is underpowered.macro pvz and tvp need to be solved first.2 base all in gotta go //also u dont need to know the manga character guts cuz i m sure there is one person knows what I mean
I don’t dispute that Protoss all-ins are too strong though, there could be tweaks made there.
I don’t see why you have to be so abrasive, I’m not saying anything pros don’t say, or don’t tacitly acknowledge by not playing for the lategame vZ.
You don’t fix balance by looking at issues as they are, you consider what else can happen if you do make changes.
Some of the worst periods of all of SC2 came from balance changes intended to force macro games, because they’re more ‘legit’ or something. Queen buff may have helped Zerg deal with bullshit aggression, but it also let Zerg go to the lategame BL/Infestor styles super quickly and we know how that ended up going.
Toss players may dispute whether they’re too strong in the areas they’re strong in, I think they maybe are a bit, I’d say the majority will say that their lategame vZ isn’t good at the minute.
A nerf to PvZ timings if you overdo it is a straight up nerf to Protoss as things stand if you don’t do anything else.
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Northern Ireland26246 Posts
On May 23 2019 17:45 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 06:58 mpmaley86 wrote:
Long time lurker (basically forever) but as I get older I need a place to talk SC2 because my love for it is growing. Catching up on group A now! Just felt like posting :3 Welcome, you’ll never truly be a hundred percent lurker ever again! Yeah I had a complete break with the game for years, no playing no watching. Feels nice to have my passion back and be around others who share it Found Tasteless's alt
He’s my alt I’ll have you know.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 23 2019 12:00 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 10:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 09:26 seemsgood wrote:On May 23 2019 05:08 Xain0n wrote:On May 23 2019 02:30 seemsgood wrote:On May 22 2019 22:48 BerserkSword wrote:
The interesting thing is that we saw this powerful midgame PvZ play really started to emerge after the carrier, tempest, and high templar got nerfed really hard.
I don't blame protoss players for trying to end the game early when there is pretty much nothing they can do against late game infestor compositions now that carriers are garbage, tempests go down like flies, and feedback got nerfed in half. Protoss even loses out against late game Terran with the buffed BC and Thor that slaughter skytoss. Apple is apple and orange is orange I do say we nerf protoss first then process into addressing it's late game Pro players must play alot of late game vs zerg and Terran like about 2-3 tournaments with a decent amount of late game using Stargate tech before concluding anything because honestly reading your whine post about toss late game time and time again is annoying as fuck and why you still havent gotten nuked for doing that is beyond me. it is tenfond worse than zerg n terran full force whines combined If protoss late is too weak then buff it but protoss players gotta prove it first By stop carting zerg and Terran with templarnrobot tech first ofc It's funny how when Terran were dismantling Protoss with midrange pushes the main problem still was how weak Terran lategame was. well its because you wont see it works everytime even when your base is near UED earth or right next to artanis's toilet.no actually its really burst in some maps and you can thank uncle blizzard for that kind of map pool in order to archieve thier precious 50% winnrate On May 23 2019 05:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s nowhere near that because it’s actually kinda obviously true. Terran one is debatable I guess, Zerg definitely seems to be the case.
Vs other whine which is literally any time a Protoss wins a match regardless of how many mistakes their opponent made or how well the Protoss played, that don’t make any kind of sensible suggestions that consider the big knock-on effects those changes could all potentially have.
Templar feedback was a relatively big nerf, Carrier was pretty big. In combination when they’re both big components of Protoss lategame vZ, seems pretty sensible that maybe that’s not an area Protoss want to try to go up against Zerg in.
That top Protoss players seem to have accepted this and ground out fiendish and ever more refined timing attacks seems very much a tactic acceptance of this and a necessity breeds invention kind of scenario.
It’s nowhere near as extreme no, Protoss relied on timing attacks for ages once BL/Infestor matured.
this must be the third time you saying this and i am fully aware of it thanks to you and your GUTS buddy now its time for dem pro protoss players to prove that by actually playing late game PvZ.this match up was much less shitty when protoss were trying void ray tho Why would they? This isn’t a matter of Protoss players not experimenting and even trying to play late game, it’s the late game they had figured out, is not very good anymore, which is 100% related to balance changes and not meta changes. Carriers are worse, Templars role in zoning out Vipers/Infestors to a degree with feedback is one they don’t fulfil as well. If Stats, if anyone is that ‘straight up Protoss’ went from employing late-game oriented games against Serral at BlizzCon to never even throwing in a single game in a series against anyone anytime recently (that I’ve seen), maybe it’s just not very smart to do? If Protoss had a ground-to-air unit even nearly as potent as a Ghost, then yeah theoretically sure. Past a point vs Zerg in lategame they have to take to the skies, and have done in the past prior to balance changes. Parasitic bomb is pretty good when most of your stuff is up there, especially if those units aren’t as strong as they used to be. Which I don’t even mind all that much, some of the worst periods in the game have involved air blobs. Terrans have some late game super comps that are extremely hard to get to, or borderline impossible depending upon the level of play. Nobody is saying, for example mass fully upgraded BCs is an easy goal to get to, but in games where players do get there they are bloody good. GUTS? really ? why not because of the two bases all in build is so strong so protoss can just straight up kill zerg in mid ーnear late game and skytoss aint super strong as they were for protoss to continue abusing it ? but skytoss being underpowered because they got nerf is another story that almost exclusively comes out from you and that guy on this forum without good amount examples to back up cuz your idols are way too busy massing immortals. blizzard were right at taking terran s fang in early game two times to force them play macro game on certain maps and whatever the current state of macro game TvP is,its a good data for next balance step instead of doing blindless balance change based on wall of texts coming from some random folks like u so no! i d think skytoss aint OP anymoar but i disagree with every single comment saying that skytoss is underpowered.macro pvz and tvp need to be solved first.2 base all in gotta go //also u dont need to know the manga character guts cuz i m sure there is one person knows what I mean
Where's the patch or at least balance discussion thread started with the "blue post"? We're waiting fairly long while Blizz is silent, the research isn't going very well it seems...
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EPT
