No Namshar or Reynor in the group stage 1 I get that the local guy want to play too, but having ro8 player unable to make their living because some mid--master took their spot is kind of shitty. Dreamhack should just have a couple of groups for the overflow for seeding into the group stage 1, or something IDK
Let's go! Hoping for some surprises starting from the 1st group stage already. But in the end, I need the sky to still be blue and Serral taking the trophy. Good luck all.
On September 07 2018 20:09 Nakajin wrote: No Namshar or Reynor in the group stage 1 I get that the local guy want to play too, but having ro8 player unable to make their living because some mid--master took their spot is kind of shitty. Dreamhack should just have a couple of groups for the overflow for seeding into the group stage 1, or something IDK
I think that this kind of stuff ruins both the pros involved and the tournament itself. Clearly the signed up players are not up to the level of the pros in the waiting list
Most of the players that Nerchio mentioned made it in. Looks like Reynor and Mcanning are the only ones mentioned that didn't get a spot. Namshar too of course. Are the groups now set in stone or do people still have the chance to give up their spots?
I was really looking forward to seeing Reynor compete this weekend. Hopefully he didn't fly all the way from Italy for nothing.
Really hope reynor somehow manages to squeeze in last minute. Dude seriously has potential this time, would be a shame to see a random no-name take his place. He already got fucked for over an entire year because of his age, now it's time to let him play.
On September 07 2018 20:09 Nakajin wrote: No Namshar or Reynor in the group stage 1 I get that the local guy want to play too, but having ro8 player unable to make their living because some mid--master took their spot is kind of shitty. Dreamhack should just have a couple of groups for the overflow for seeding into the group stage 1, or something IDK
I think that this kind of stuff ruins both the pros involved and the tournament itself. Clearly the signed up players are not up to the level of the pros in the waiting list
Nerchio, Bly, Zanster and Clem eventually got in. Bless the players who gave their spots away.
Giving amateurs their Dreamhack weekend pass money back was clearly not enough. They really should have offered more if they wanted to get more people to give up spots, and whatever they gave to get the last spot should've also been given retroactively to anyone who gave up a spot for a pro out of fairness.
Maybe throwing in free mystery box level 3 and some Dreamhack or Starcraft merchandise (maybe signed by the player who got their spot) could've been tried to get Reynor, Namshar and MCanning in. It's a shame that Reynor made Ro16 GSL and isn't even in the open bracket at WCS
On September 07 2018 21:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Why did people need to give spots away? Did the players not register?
All the open sign up spots were full so those pros were on the waiting list for the tournament. I'm assuming they registered later than the lower ranked players that signed up. Ideally they would add an extra round or something but as the rules stand it's pretty much first come first serve.
If some players gave their spots up to let pros in, I don't think they were forced to. Good on them for letting some top players in to make it a better tournament!
On September 07 2018 22:03 Zzoram wrote: Giving amateurs their Dreamhack weekend pass money back was clearly not enough. They really should have offered more if they wanted to get more people to give up spots, and whatever they gave to get the last spot should've also been given retroactively to anyone who gave up a spot for a pro out of fairness.
Maybe throwing in free mystery box level 3 and some Dreamhack or Starcraft merchandise (maybe signed by the player who got their spot) could've been tried to get Reynor, Namshar and MCanning in. It's a shame that Reynor made Ro16 GSL and isn't even in the open bracket at WCS
If Reynor doesn't get a spot I hope people will be mad. That's pretty horrible, even if he made the mistake of signing up too late.
On September 07 2018 20:09 Nakajin wrote: No Namshar or Reynor in the group stage 1 I get that the local guy want to play too, but having ro8 player unable to make their living because some mid--master took their spot is kind of shitty. Dreamhack should just have a couple of groups for the overflow for seeding into the group stage 1, or something IDK
I think that this kind of stuff ruins both the pros involved and the tournament itself. Clearly the signed up players are not up to the level of the pros in the waiting list
Why should they deserve a spot if they sign up too late? I Don't understand this "controversy". If the pros aren't able to sign up as fast as amateurs then the amateurs clearly deserve the spot more. An exception would be of course if amateurs fill up all spots within a few hours but this wasn't the case. The pros have nobody but themselves to blame.
It's technically fair, first come first serve and all that. Personally as a viewer, I would rather watch Reynor (who could potentially make it really far) play than some no-name who goes out in the first round.
I don't think anyone should be forced to give up their spots but in general higher level players creates a better tournament so it benefits everyone to make an exception and players like Reynor and Namshar in. If not for this tournament, then a rule change should be looked into for next year.
On September 07 2018 22:53 GLiscor wrote: It's technically fair, first come first serve and all that. Personally as a viewer, I would rather watch Reynor (who could potentially make it really far) play than some no-name who goes out in the first round.
I don't think anyone should be forced to give up their spots but in general higher level players creates a better tournament so it benefits everyone to make an exception and players like Reynor and Namshar in. If not for this tournament, then a rule change should be looked into for next year.
Rule change: If we notice a known pro player doesn't have a spot yet players who signed up in time can be forced to immediately forfeit their spot!!!
On September 07 2018 23:00 Charoisaur wrote: Rule change: If we notice a known pro player doesn't have a spot yet players who signed up in time can be forced to immediately forfeit their spot!!!
On September 07 2018 22:53 GLiscor wrote: I don't think anyone should be forced to give up their spots
I'm thinking more of either adding an extra round to the tournament or not prioritising players based on when they got their ticket. Perhaps take WCS points into account. Even using ladder rank could be a good idea.
Another option would be to convert some of the open tournament spots into more seeded spots from qualifiers. At the very least, close sign ups and announce the groups sooner so people don't spend a load of money on flights when they are not competing.
On September 07 2018 22:53 GLiscor wrote: It's technically fair, first come first serve and all that. Personally as a viewer, I would rather watch Reynor (who could potentially make it really far) play than some no-name who goes out in the first round.
I don't think anyone should be forced to give up their spots but in general higher level players creates a better tournament so it benefits everyone to make an exception and players like Reynor and Namshar in. If not for this tournament, then a rule change should be looked into for next year.
Rule change: If we notice a known pro player doesn't have a spot yet players who signed up in time can be forced to immediately forfeit their spot!!!
Can't they just have an extra group for player who sign up last? Let 3-4 seed open in gs1 and have the player who signed up last play in group to qualify for it.
I think the problem is that this time organizers required not only sign up registration but also purchase of ticket for the event. Some pro players did not buy tickets early as they still had a chance to get spots through qualifiers. Its is very likely that if EU qualifiers had different outcome we would also see Lambo, Elazer, uThermal and Serral on the waiting list.
On September 07 2018 23:49 Kafka777 wrote: I think the problem is that this time organizers required not only sign up registration but also purchase of ticket for the event. Some pro players did not buy tickets early as they still had a chance to get spots through qualifiers. Its is very likely that if EU qualifiers had different outcome we would also see Lambo, Elazer, uThermal and Serral on the waiting list.
Let's hope Blizzard and DH will work on a better system for next year and forget this stuff for now.
This event will still be super good, I don't think the last WCS stop ever decided as many BlizzCon spots as this one, it's gonna be crazy. Everybody will be at their peak for this one.
On September 07 2018 22:47 HsDLTitich wrote: Why is Clem in and Reynor and Namshar no? They're both ahead of him in WCS points
The WCS rule only states that waitlisted players with WCS points would be prioritized over players without. It does not say that higher WCS points is higher priority. I'm guessing that Clem signed up sooner and that's why he got the spot.
Isn't the whole "not enough spots" thing incredibly easy to solve? Just have an ONLINE pre-qualifier in which you need to win a round or get past a group stage or something.
On September 08 2018 04:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Aww I just noticed that Semper and his girlfriend Poizon were in the same group. Shame they didn't get to play each other.
Scarlett's recent match history is hilarious: (descending from oldest to most recent) 3-0 Neeb 0-3 Zest 3-0 Semper 3-2 TRUE 0-4 Neeb 3-0 soO 3-0 Creator 0-4 Solar
On September 08 2018 05:07 Lexender wrote: I forgot there was WCS today lol I think every year I get less hyped about watching zerg fest happen for an entire weekend.
Shouldn't have missed the last WCS then. 6-5-5 race distribution in the playoffs.
Cham Drogo Stephano Time group in the second group stage feels so wrong. All 4 could easily make it out of the group stages but two will get immediately cut
On September 08 2018 04:54 Soke wrote: Scarlett's recent match history is hilarious: (descending from oldest to most recent) 3-0 Neeb 0-3 Zest 3-0 Semper 3-2 TRUE 0-4 Neeb 3-0 soO 3-0 Creator 0-4 Solar
Lol, actually yeah that is kind of hilarious. She's gonna crush face on home soil now though. GO SCARLETT!
I feel like I want to root for Snute because Snute is awesome... But I want Scarlett to defy the odds and qualify for Blizzcon so I sort of want Harstem and Reynor to come out of this group.
I definitely think it'll be Reynor and somebody coming out of the group.
On September 08 2018 05:33 TheDougler wrote: I feel like I want to root for Snute because Snute is awesome... But I want Scarlett to defy the odds and qualify for Blizzcon so I sort of want Harstem and Reynor to come out of this group.
I definitely think it'll be Reynor and somebody coming out of the group.
Scarlett gota win anyway right? They can both go if snute manage to climb up to 7th place
On September 08 2018 05:23 TheDougler wrote: Just tuned in. TY Gemini for forfeiting your spot to Reynor. This group A is friggen INSANE.
I just don't understand the logic of this production at all. They have shown that they have the ability to put other concurrent games on screen, yet they feel the pressing need to broadcast imagery of Montreal instead?
On September 08 2018 06:43 opisska wrote: I just don't understand the logic of this production at all. They have shown that they have the ability to put other concurrent games on screen, yet they feel the pressing need to broadcast imagery of Montreal instead?
Good choice of match here WCS. I still can't help but enjoy Stephano games.
Edit: also wouldn't mind the Silky vs Heromarine rematch. That's be the first HUGE loss of the tournament if Heromarine goes down, his Blizzcon seed is precarious at best.
On September 08 2018 06:17 Inflicted wrote: JonSnow vs Crow, so fitting
Never even heard of Crow before super surprise he could be in group stage 3
Subtop FR player for a long time, very talented but he decided to not go full time and instead focus on studies. Not too suprising to see him perform (it wasn't guaranteed at all but still) since he had 2 months to try hard and got a fairly easy group.
Still not done for Group Stage 3 however.
He has a string of VERY good performance in French lans, including 2015 when it was the most competitive scene after Korea.
On September 08 2018 06:17 Inflicted wrote: JonSnow vs Crow, so fitting
Never even heard of Crow before super surprise he could be in group stage 3
Subtop FR player for a long time, very talented but he decided to not go full time and instead focus on studies. Not too suprising to see him perform (it wasn't guaranteed at all but still) since he had 2 months to try hard and got a fairly easy group.
Still not done for Group Stage 3 however.
He has a string of VERY good performance in French lans, including 2015 when it was the most competitive scene after Korea.
On September 08 2018 06:17 Inflicted wrote: JonSnow vs Crow, so fitting
Never even heard of Crow before super surprise he could be in group stage 3
Subtop FR player for a long time, very talented but he decided to not go full time and instead focus on studies. Not too suprising to see him perform (it wasn't guaranteed at all but still) since he had 2 months to try hard and got a fairly easy group.
Still not done for Group Stage 3 however.
He has a string of VERY good performance in French lans, including 2015 when it was the most competitive scene after Korea.
Cool, thanks for the background info!
Be aware that I'm probably overhyping him since he's a really cool & likeable guy !
On September 08 2018 07:03 TheDougler wrote: "17 Drones going down" Meh. It's Stephano. I've seen him lose 100 drones and win (vs Lucifron in WCS Europe)
He's gotta channel that oldschool Stephano soon though...
On September 08 2018 07:03 TheDougler wrote: "17 Drones going down" Meh. It's Stephano. I've seen him lose 100 drones and win (vs Lucifron in WCS Europe)
He's gotta channel that oldschool Stephano soon though...
On September 08 2018 07:03 TheDougler wrote: "17 Drones going down" Meh. It's Stephano. I've seen him lose 100 drones and win (vs Lucifron in WCS Europe)
He's gotta channel that oldschool Stephano soon though...
not sure he consumes enough alcohol to play at that level anymore
what a good game from Stephano (game 2 against Time), he held the terran with mass ling bling nearly all the game, altough the map seemed slighty zerg favored
I was really hoping Stephano would make a bunch of swarm hosts when his pool died. He still probs would've won and the style points would've been great.
On September 08 2018 08:04 Weavel wrote: I'm so confused. What happened to TIME vs Drogo?
they decided to stream a different season for some reason, no real explanation given, kinda disappointing cause i thought its TIME has had some really fun series to watch so far
It feels like I haven't gotten to watch any Snute all year. Really bummed I couldn't see the games and even more so to see that he didn't make it to the next stage. :/
If you had Serral, Special, Reynor, Uthermal, Scarlett, Harstem, and Nerchio all in the Ro8, no one would be surprised. And they're now battling it out in two Ro32 groups.
On September 08 2018 08:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Group G/7 is a group of death. Scarlett, Harstem, Nerchio, uThermal lmao
Yeah. A couple of those groups are a lot more intense than others. Scarlett does not seem to have great group luck
Long as she ends up on the opposite side of the bracket from Serral, I'll be happy. I think she can make it out of that group. Is a tough one though, no doubt. Head says Nerchio and Scarlett (maybe uThermal), heart says Scarlett and Harstem.
I already looked at the standings, 300 points doesn't let him pass Special's current point value, but I too am too lazy to do the math about what the actual minimum points for qualifications are
On September 08 2018 08:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: It's honestly hilarious that every player in group G is better than every player in group D. Oh WCS, you crack me up
On September 08 2018 08:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: It's honestly hilarious that every player in group G is better than every player in group D. Oh WCS, you crack me up
And group B is friggen nuts (with a sacrificial Expect for the luls)
On September 08 2018 09:03 Psychonian wrote: Nerchio just got 2-0'd by Harstem and is out of the tournament
That's an exciting one. I think Nerchio will qualify, but might be the 7th or 8th seed. Has is going to overtake him for sure, I think HeroMarine will as well. If a few of those around 1500 points makes a deep run Nerchio could be in some trouble.
On September 08 2018 09:21 TheDougler wrote: I think 2400 WCS points is the magic number this weekend. If a player get's that, they're in for sure. If not, they might not be.
As I don't feel like running the numbers I'll take your word for it blindly.
On September 08 2018 09:12 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Semper 2-1 Neeb
Neeb and Mana in the loser's match? Nerchio and Snute out? Special, Reynor and Showtime in the same group? uThermal, Scarlett, and Harstem in the same group?
On September 08 2018 09:15 TheDougler wrote: Letting Scarlett macro up like this is good for Scarlett, in my opinion.
On September 08 2018 09:19 TheDougler wrote: Dang it Scarlett, that game was definitely doable.
These two posts pretty much sum up her entire year aside from IEM.
Truer words have never been spoken. Well said man. I still believe though. Long as she isn't on the same side of the bracket as Serral... (If she makes it that far).
On September 08 2018 09:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote: this looks like too much fun. i'm driving to Montreal tomorrow.
wish i could go 12+ hour drive for me
30 hour drive here. If it was less than 18 hours I'd do it.
22 hour drive for me according to Google, 18 if traffic is good and I sped? Had no idea I was that "close." *Ooh, flights are about $300 USD if I drive 3 hours to a bigger airport and get a straight flight, but $700-900 if I get a connecting flight from my hometown, nice.
On September 08 2018 09:55 Psychonian wrote: Any updates on special/reynor?
None i know. But the showtime series ended like an hour ago, so either there must be some technical issues to getting the game started or they are some absolutely insane games.
On September 08 2018 10:01 Psychonian wrote: Holy shit, Reynor 2-1 Special
Hey good for Special, took a game off him this time!
Man Reynor is going to be SUCH A BEAST next year it's not even funny. Even Serral is lucky Reynor was too young to compete the first half of this year.
Crazy that Special or Showtime is out in the RO32 though. That's unreal.
On September 08 2018 10:03 Die4Ever wrote: Lambo vs Kelazhur? strange choice considering the other matches happening
Yeah, the 3rd TvZ in a row while Group B is being largely ignored - and that's the most interesting group to me. Somewhat disappointed by the choice of broadcasted matches thus far.
On September 08 2018 10:29 Skysherriff wrote: What do guys think on Uthermals chances on still qualifying for Blizzcon?
According to liquipedia he's 9th, so if he advances to the ro8 he'll be in blizzcon range and at that point he's just facing off against Lambo, True and Reynor (who has to win) for the last spot.
This last game between denver and steph was terrible for the latter :/, no map control, no scout, 19 drones vs 27 in an opening which should have favor him, I am a bit sad... Time to sleep I guess !
On September 08 2018 10:41 JJH777 wrote: Bad seeding. It really sucks that one of Special or Showtime is out right now :/ How are the rank 2 and 3 people in the same group?
If only he would've gotten first in his group so he would've been in a group with uThermal, Scarlett and Harstem... no wait...
Man, the way these groups have played out, I'm not sure that's there's a real advantage in getting first versus getting second (aside from not having to play Serral in r1)
On September 08 2018 10:59 Soke wrote: Man, the way these groups have played out, I'm not sure that's there's a real advantage in getting first versus getting second (aside from not having to play Serral in r1)
I don't think terran has an answer to disruptor/tempest, after all theres a reason every terran proxies and tries to kill the toss as soon as they possibly can, still kudos for Special for actually trying to macro when no top terran does it.
I'm gonna guess the brackets will be up right after everyone who is in bed around midnight, on their phones constantly refreshing smash.gg, fall asleep.
On September 08 2018 11:30 blunderfulguy wrote: I'm gonna guess the brackets will be up right after everyone who is in bed around midnight, on their phones constantly refreshing smash.gg, fall asleep.
usually its not shown on smash.gg they just tweet it
btw. neeb, showtime, has and heromarine are safe for blizzcon while elazer will probably be kicked out tomorrow
On September 08 2018 11:27 HotDOSBuns wrote: I missed everything today, any recommended series or games? I'll catch up with it all eventually but narrowing it down for now would be nice =]
I'd say most of the games on the main stream were worth watching, some are a little sad but still.
So if you're a Scarlett fan, I think this is what you're hoping for tomorrow:
It gets way easier if either (or both) Lambo or uThermal lose tomorrow. Then Scarlett will most likely only need a RO4 (unless something crazy happens). If Lambo and uThermal both advance tomorrow then Scarlett will need a finals appearance to make it to Blizzcon.
And of course, most importantly, we're hoping to see her on the opposite side of the bracket from Serral.
On September 08 2018 12:38 gobbledydook wrote: I can never understand why Americans are willing to drive for hours to get to a event. at that point, why not take a flight?
Driving (especially if you're carpooling) is a lot cheaper than a flight.
On September 08 2018 13:39 chipmonklord17 wrote: What luck that Has has holy shit. And Scarlett has the reverse. I guess it could be Serral FIRST round instead of second
I guess it helps to advance 1st in your group instead of 2nd
On September 08 2018 13:39 chipmonklord17 wrote: What luck that Has has holy shit. And Scarlett has the reverse. I guess it could be Serral FIRST round instead of second
I guess it helps to advance 1st in your group instead of 2nd
That's true but Has also got good luck in the group stage and Scarlett got bad luck.
This is one of the best possible brackets for Neeb. Almost all the Protoss are on the other side of the bracket, and Has did not take out Neeb twice. Yes, Semper did take out Neeb 1-2, but Neeb has a history of taking second place in the ro32.
So Serral will possibly have to play only ZvZ until the grand final? I'm not so sure that's an advantage for him. He's great at ZvZ, but against Scarlett he'll have to bring his best play again.
On September 08 2018 13:39 chipmonklord17 wrote: What luck that Has has holy shit. And Scarlett has the reverse. I guess it could be Serral FIRST round instead of second
I guess it helps to advance 1st in your group instead of 2nd
That's true but Has also got good luck in the group stage and Scarlett got bad luck.
no doubt Has had some more luck, but he deserved an easier group because he was 2nd place in the previous season, Scarlett had to requalify, so she'd be a lower seed
On September 08 2018 13:39 chipmonklord17 wrote: What luck that Has has holy shit. And Scarlett has the reverse. I guess it could be Serral FIRST round instead of second
I guess it helps to advance 1st in your group instead of 2nd
It helps to have a group of JonSnow/Hut/Clem instead of Uthermal/Harstem/Nerchio too.
It helps to have a decent draw for you redrawn into the best possible alternative instead of one of the arguable worst
On September 08 2018 13:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On September 08 2018 13:57 Die4Ever wrote:
On September 08 2018 13:39 chipmonklord17 wrote: What luck that Has has holy shit. And Scarlett has the reverse. I guess it could be Serral FIRST round instead of second
I guess it helps to advance 1st in your group instead of 2nd
That's true but Has also got good luck in the group stage and Scarlett got bad luck.
no doubt Has had some more luck, but he deserved an easier group because he was 2nd place in the previous season, Scarlett had to requalify, so she'd be a lower seed
This isn't the GSL. Has also had to requalify. And Showtime and Special are both top four in points but got placed in the same group with Special being eliminated, so it's not like points actually factored into to group difficulty.
On top of that. Has got second last WCS thanks to an easier bracket. They lost to the same player. Scarlett lost 2-3 to Serral. Has lost 1-4 to Serral.
On September 08 2018 14:43 HolydaKing wrote: So Serral will possibly have to play only ZvZ until the grand final? I'm not so sure that's an advantage for him. He's great at ZvZ, but against Scarlett he'll have to bring his best play again.
It's entirely possible that Serral could win this event playing nothing but ZvZ from here on if Reynor shows up in a big way. A path of JonSnow, Scarlett, Lambo, Reynor is a distinct possibility. Which would be pretty disappointing if we got to see nothing but ZvZ from him, even though I like all of those players.
EPT
2018 WCS Montreal 
![[image loading]](https://wcs.dreamhack.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WCS-Montreal-2018-Talent.png)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dmi2KzNU4AEuDKw.jpg)
