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It's actually a little hilarious how lost Zest is in pvz right now since 2 years ago.
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Canada2764 Posts
On March 09 2018 19:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:30 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:On March 09 2018 19:10 Fyzar wrote:
[quote]
Cheese a couple games and suddenly she’s considered best foreigner? Same logic applies tbh. if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up  tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. Does that even matter? If one player is better he should play aggressive and win games from there. No problem to be a few workers behind instead of getting rekt. No, as we all know if you win with aggressive builds it just means your worse. Good players only play honourable macro games 
It doesn't make you worse, but it makes you one-dimensional. If people can understand the cheesy stuff you're doing, you fall apart, unless you can consistently come up with new cheeses - which, well, I don't think Scarlett has done. People celebrate macro play because, even if you understand the macro style someone is using, that doesn't mean the game's over. If you know someone's going to proxy a stargate at a certain location, and you scout that location and see it, you're probably going to win.
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Wow Scarlett got rektt. But honestly peole really thought that she could beat in a bo5 a really good and consistent korean player without abusing a match up or have the surprise advantage ?
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On March 09 2018 19:31 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:29 starkiller123 wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:On March 09 2018 19:10 Fyzar wrote:
[quote]
Cheese a couple games and suddenly she’s considered best foreigner? Same logic applies tbh. if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. It's actually a little hilarious how lost Zest is in pvz right now I totally get it though 
Oh yeah pvz looks pretty rough right now, Zest just makes it look way more imbalanced than it really is
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On March 09 2018 19:33 leublix wrote:
It's actually a little hilarious how lost Zest is in pvz right now since 2 years ago.
Well last year Zest was just lost in general
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On March 09 2018 19:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:30 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:On March 09 2018 19:10 Fyzar wrote:
[quote]
Cheese a couple games and suddenly she’s considered best foreigner? Same logic applies tbh. if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. Does that even matter? If one player is better he should play aggressive and win games from there. No problem to be a few workers behind instead of getting rekt. No, as we all know if you win with aggressive builds it just means your worse. Good players only play honourable macro games
shown by dark when he dared to take elazer head-on instead of relying on cheeses
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On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:On March 09 2018 19:10 Fyzar wrote:On March 09 2018 19:06 Morbidius wrote:
Lose 2 games to the best ZvZer inthe world, and suddenly she's considered garbage? Cheese a couple games and suddenly she’s considered best foreigner? Same logic applies tbh. if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win.
Thats 2 cheeses and 1 build that will NEVER work again versus intelligent player and one macro game. Dont get me wrong Cheese no cheese its still REALLY impressive to get to CODE S ro8 but there is a reason we see few people get even in ro32 its tough and people prepare vs you. Oh and by the way that 3-rd game today that +1 carapice rush in zvz was another "specific" build that what do you know did NOT work this time. NO zerg has excuse to go +1 attack in muta vs muta battle after 20 years of Starcraft NO ONE!
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Austria24422 Posts
On March 09 2018 19:33 starkiller123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:31 Olli wrote:On March 09 2018 19:29 starkiller123 wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:[quote] if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. It's actually a little hilarious how lost Zest is in pvz right now I totally get it though Oh yeah pvz looks pretty rough right now, Zest just makes it look way more imbalanced than it really is
It's quite sad, cause his PvP and PvT are both really good. 3-0'd herO just yesterday. But he can't PvZ for the life of him.
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On March 09 2018 19:33 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On March 09 2018 19:30 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:[quote] if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. Does that even matter? If one player is better he should play aggressive and win games from there. No problem to be a few workers behind instead of getting rekt. No, as we all know if you win with aggressive builds it just means your worse. Good players only play honourable macro games It doesn't make you worse, but it makes you one-dimensional. If people can understand the cheesy stuff you're doing, you fall apart, unless you can consistently come up with new cheeses - which, well, I don't think Scarlett has done. People celebrate macro play because, even if you understand the macro style someone is using, that doesn't mean the game's over. If you know someone's going to proxy a stargate at a certain location, and you scout that location and see it, you're probably going to win.
Your kind of just saying it makes you worse here.
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On March 09 2018 19:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:30 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:16 Muffloe wrote:On March 09 2018 19:10 Fyzar wrote:
[quote]
Cheese a couple games and suddenly she’s considered best foreigner? Same logic applies tbh. if u can get ro8 gsl by cheesing a couple of games, then sign me up tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. Does that even matter? If one player is better he should play aggressive and win games from there. No problem to be a few workers behind instead of getting rekt. No, as we all know if you win with aggressive builds it just means your worse. Good players only play honourable macro games
It doesn't make you worse, but it's a less reliable method of winning because it relies on luck over skill. If you outmacro/micro someone, then you can confidently say you're the better player. If you get an autowin with some cheese it doesn't mean much in terms of actual skill/how likely you are to win your next match.
Edit: just look at soul vs stats ffs. It's obvious that the better player lost there
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Australia18228 Posts
Wolf is better at filling time solo than tastosis
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On March 09 2018 19:35 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:33 starkiller123 wrote:On March 09 2018 19:31 Olli wrote:On March 09 2018 19:29 starkiller123 wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:17 Soularion wrote:
[quote]
tbf she got ro8 gsl by beating billowy and 3 hugely slumping players. This has to be one of the all-time worst Ro8 runs, knowing what we know now about INno and Rogue's form. soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. It's actually a little hilarious how lost Zest is in pvz right now I totally get it though Oh yeah pvz looks pretty rough right now, Zest just makes it look way more imbalanced than it really is It's quite sad, cause his PvP and PvT are both really good. 3-0'd herO just yesterday. But he can't PvZ for the life of him.
in 10 days he at least will be able to not open stargate
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Did she even know soO was going mutas when she started attack upgrade?
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On March 09 2018 19:33 Mun_Su wrote:
Wow Scarlett got rektt. But honestly peole really thought that she could beat in a bo5 a really good and consistent korean player without abusing a match up or have the surprise advantage ?
Yes, it's not like it's unheard of. Scarlett has a better winrate vs Koreans than most other foreigners. Not saying she was favored at all but I expecte it to at least be closer
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On March 09 2018 19:37 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 19:35 Olli wrote:On March 09 2018 19:33 starkiller123 wrote:On March 09 2018 19:31 Olli wrote:On March 09 2018 19:29 starkiller123 wrote:On March 09 2018 19:28 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:27 FrkFrJss wrote:On March 09 2018 19:24 SatsuinoHado wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 Soularion wrote:On March 09 2018 19:21 FrkFrJss wrote:
[quote]
soO's run, to be far, wasn't all that much more impressive. He beat NoRegreT and Zest and then beat aLive twice. Yea but at least he faced Dark so he got to be a #2 seed. There is always chance to go deep with mostly "cheeses" but at the end of the day lets see if this repeats or not cause one time RO8 is "cheese" but if this repeats its on the players to not let cheesy player to beat them I do think people are overblowing how much cheese Scarlett really used to get from the ro16 to the ro8. 1 very precise build designed to catch Innovation off guard + 1 cheese. vs Zest, 1 loss, 1 cheese win, 1 macro game win. So basically, out of 4 games, the only macro game she won was in a broken matchup against a player who is proven to be terrible at that matchup? Yeah, seems about right. It's actually a little hilarious how lost Zest is in pvz right now I totally get it though Oh yeah pvz looks pretty rough right now, Zest just makes it look way more imbalanced than it really is It's quite sad, cause his PvP and PvT are both really good. 3-0'd herO just yesterday. But he can't PvZ for the life of him. in 10 days he at least will be able to not open stargate
He'll be opening double archon drop until he retires
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On March 09 2018 19:37 Morbidius wrote:
Did she even know soO was going mutas when she started attack upgrade?
Does not Matter AT ALL! even if its 70% done. This only means you are 30% slower +1 armor vs the other guys mutas
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Austria24422 Posts
On March 09 2018 19:37 Morbidius wrote:
Did she even know soO was going mutas when she started attack upgrade?
I don't think so, but it had very little to do with why she lost the game.
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On March 09 2018 19:37 Morbidius wrote:
Did she even know soO was going mutas when she started attack upgrade?
not sure, she had an overseer fly into soo's main at around the time his spire was finishing, but we didn't see if she saw it
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damn i wanted scarlett to go through
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On March 09 2018 19:37 Morbidius wrote:
Did she even know soO was going mutas when she started attack upgrade?
Probably not but you shouldn't really cancel in that situation I don't think. I've also seen her intentionally go with attack first before, but that was a long time ago.
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EPT
