Ryung's got this. I truly believe with his years of experience, the cunning tactics he's demonstrated recently, and perhaps even with a little bit of luck he has it in him...
I doubt he was as ahead as they told after the 15 probe kills. Not sure he was even ahead at all. He evened up the worker count while loosing his whole army and beeing like 3 minutes later with his third.
A big concern pre legacy was that there were no units that could control space against a higher supply army, glad to see liberators fill this role and help allow comebacks
On March 18 2017 14:17 yht9657 wrote: When Terran makes mistakes, simply turtle back home and be safe. When Protoss makes one mistake like that, it's DOOMED.
I don't play Pvt but it seemed like to me that play was never going to work, only reason it did game 1 was because he killed the Oracle AND it was the first time he did it, and he's done it every game since
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
they should add Swann's co op ability of multiple scvs building stuff faster
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
they should add Swann's co op ability of multiple scvs building stuff faster
Or remove the engineering bay requirement like they did for Zerg's spores.
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
they should add Swann's co op ability of multiple scvs building stuff faster
Or remove the engineering bay requirement like they did for Zerg's spores.
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
they should add Swann's co op ability of multiple scvs building stuff faster
Or remove the engineering bay requirement like they did for Zerg's spores.
Damn, Stats is playing brilliantly. This is just brutal. I tought Ryung would take at least 2-3 games with how strong Terran has been looking. This is something else.
Glad to see such top notch play, and some innovations from Stats for dealing with Ryung's compositions.
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
He uses his first two mines defensively. But after he forces the oracles to retreat, he then picks up those 2 mines to go drop them. THAT'S when you build turrets...
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
they should add Swann's co op ability of multiple scvs building stuff faster
Or remove the engineering bay requirement like they did for Zerg's spores.
What about Photon Canons then?
What about structures that attack both air and ground?
On March 18 2017 14:22 Seeker wrote: I don't understand why progamers don't build turrets. Do they not understand that the 100 mineral investment is so damn worth it?
You can't reasonably get one out before the first few oracle push-ins though.
He uses his first two mines defensively. But after he forces the oracles to retreat, he then picks up those 2 mines to go drop them. THAT'S when you build turrets...
In this game he was behind by that point, and players cut corners when behind.
Tastosis seem to be doing a lot less silly joking around about stuff that is far off topic from Starcraft, esports and video games. they are better this way.
On March 18 2017 14:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Tastosis seem to be doing a lot less silly joking around about stuff that is far off topic from Starcraft, esports and video games. they are better this way.
On March 18 2017 15:01 The_Templar wrote: Wait this is on at midnight.
hello everyone, how is it going so far?
GSL's been on at this time all season.
And Stats losing more oracles than Neeb.
I've been MIA since early 2016, so I didn't really notice.
(by the way, wtf? daybreak?)
Blizzard likes bringing back maps completely unsuited for LotV such as Daybreak or Bel'shir Vestige. And the new maps have been pretty bad this past year.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
To me the easy fix is making the ability cast-able on a unit instead of a piece of land and have that unit be the center of the circle that gets revelation-ed
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
To me the easy fix is making the ability cast-able on a unit instead of a piece of land and have that unit be the center of the circle that gets revelation-ed
I don't see how that helps. You wouldn't be able to click on the lurkers directly so the zerg would just walk away with the targeted unit. Or if you target your own unit, they'd focus it down.
On March 18 2017 15:12 chipmonklord17 wrote: lol time for the free damage that is tempest + revelation
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
On March 18 2017 15:13 Melix wrote: No matter what happens, this has been a way better series than anyone expected.
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
To me the easy fix is making the ability cast-able on a unit instead of a piece of land and have that unit be the center of the circle that gets revelation-ed
I don't see how that helps. You wouldn't be able to click on the lurkers directly so the zerg would just walk away with the targeted unit. Or if you target your own unit, they'd focus it down.
That's the point. You'd be able to dodge (or at least mitigate) the ability if you saw it was happening, allowing for counterplay where there currently is none
On March 18 2017 15:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote: [quote]
I can't feel bad for someone who's going for ranged liberators.
[quote]
Definitely. Ryung didn't roll over and die for one.
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
On March 18 2017 15:15 The_Templar wrote: Seriously, how do you see a nuke on 6 bases while you're managing an army? I miss it sometimes when I'm looking directly at it.
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
To me the easy fix is making the ability cast-able on a unit instead of a piece of land and have that unit be the center of the circle that gets revelation-ed
I don't see how that helps. You wouldn't be able to click on the lurkers directly so the zerg would just walk away with the targeted unit. Or if you target your own unit, they'd focus it down.
That's the point. You'd be able to dodge (or at least mitigate) the ability if you saw it was happening, allowing for counterplay where there currently is none
With no reliable detection Protoss would just die to lurkers every game. It wouldn't even be close.
edit: Actually you'd always target your own unit. There's no point in targeting the opponent's.
On March 18 2017 15:16 chipmonklord17 wrote: [quote]
Ranged liberators have counterplay opportunities
[quote]
I assume its one of those "this is the most likely spot" things
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
To me the easy fix is making the ability cast-able on a unit instead of a piece of land and have that unit be the center of the circle that gets revelation-ed
I don't see how that helps. You wouldn't be able to click on the lurkers directly so the zerg would just walk away with the targeted unit. Or if you target your own unit, they'd focus it down.
That's the point. You'd be able to dodge (or at least mitigate) the ability if you saw it was happening, allowing for counterplay where there currently is none
With no reliable detection Protoss would just die to lurkers every game. It wouldn't even be close.
edit: Actually you'd always target your own unit. There's no point in targeting the opponent's.
what if revelation would just detect units but not give vision? Or if observer get a higher radius for their detection instead? Or more health?
On March 18 2017 15:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote: [quote]
They do have counterplay. Namely building tempests.
And the fact that you can't attack air while in the mode that is affected by the range increase
Sounds like a fair trade-off for having the DPS of two carriers and 1.5 times the range of a siege tank.
don't get me wrong liberators are pretty stupid. But nothing is more out of place in an RTS than revelation. An ability with zero counterplay that grants vision/detection on units given to a unit that is so fast you're almost never going to be trading said unit for the vision.
I don't disagree. Though revelation is pretty necessary for the health of PvZ unfortunately.
To me the easy fix is making the ability cast-able on a unit instead of a piece of land and have that unit be the center of the circle that gets revelation-ed
I don't see how that helps. You wouldn't be able to click on the lurkers directly so the zerg would just walk away with the targeted unit. Or if you target your own unit, they'd focus it down.
That's the point. You'd be able to dodge (or at least mitigate) the ability if you saw it was happening, allowing for counterplay where there currently is none
With no reliable detection Protoss would just die to lurkers every game. It wouldn't even be close.
edit: Actually you'd always target your own unit. There's no point in targeting the opponent's.
what if revelation would just detect units but not give vision? Or if observer get a higher radius for their detection instead? Or more health?
Detecting but not revealing would be hard to make clear from a visual point of view. Increasing observer health wouldn't really help or make sense. Increasing observer sight range could work, though it could have ramifications.
Another option would be to reduce the duration of revelation (and the cost accordingly). If revelation lasted half as long and cost 25 energy it would force Protoss to tag the army twice as often which weakens offensive revelations while not affecting defensive revelations as much. It would also make Protoss stronger against widow mine drops, which I think is fine from a design point of view. It might be a problem balance-wise, but that can be compensated for.
On March 18 2017 20:48 Poopi wrote: How did Ryung win 2 games? O_o. Most predictable ro4 round ever but still gz soO and Stats! Battle of the Kongs! Go Stats
Ryung played super well. But Stats should have probably won game 3 on Cactus.
I skipped watching live because I was convinced Stats would win so staying up/getting up at 5 AM didn't seem worth it.
EPT
Proxima Station - Whirlwind - ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/611.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/957.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X8dpu.jpg)
