I'm considering pulling an all-nighter for the group stages. It's unfortunate that the schedule doesn't improve much for EU, trying to watch everything live with these times is impossible.
On December 13 2016 23:16 Elentos wrote: I'm considering pulling an all-nighter for the group stages. It's unfortunate that the schedule doesn't improve much for EU, trying to watch everything live with these times is impossible.
On December 13 2016 23:16 Elentos wrote: I'm considering pulling an all-nighter for the group stages. It's unfortunate that the schedule doesn't improve much for EU, trying to watch everything live with these times is impossible.
I don't know about the rest of you guys but patch 3.8 just makes 2017 look like the year of INnoVation.. Buff the marauder and we'll get the year of Maru
On December 13 2016 23:16 Elentos wrote: I'm considering pulling an all-nighter for the group stages. It's unfortunate that the schedule doesn't improve much for EU, trying to watch everything live with these times is impossible.
On December 13 2016 23:16 Elentos wrote: I'm considering pulling an all-nighter for the group stages. It's unfortunate that the schedule doesn't improve much for EU, trying to watch everything live with these times is impossible.
I'm considering the same thing. I might be able to get a quick nap later at work to make it through the day, somehow.
I am, for now at least :D Doing my best to stay awake, so I can get to watch some hopefully awesome games, but it's at a fairly bad time for Europeans to say the least.
On December 14 2016 10:12 Isillian wrote: Been a long time since I've seen Jjajki play, he any good any more? Can still just about remember his GSL run back in the day.
Outside of a brief surge in 2013 when he made it to the ro8, he hasn't been even close to top-tier. Qualifying for this is the best result I've seen from him in over a year.
On December 14 2016 10:12 Isillian wrote: Been a long time since I've seen Jjajki play, he any good any more? Can still just about remember his GSL run back in the day.
Outside of a brief surge in 2013 when he made it to the ro8, he hasn't been even close to top-tier. Qualifying for this is the best result I've seen from him in over a year.
Thanks for filling in the gaps for me Who knows, maybe he'll surprise us all!
On December 14 2016 10:16 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On December 14 2016 10:12 Isillian wrote: Been a long time since I've seen Jjajki play, he any good any more? Can still just about remember his GSL run back in the day.
Outside of a brief surge in 2013 when he made it to the ro8, he hasn't been even close to top-tier. Qualifying for this is the best result I've seen from him in over a year.
Thanks for filling in the gaps for me Who knows, maybe he'll surprise us all!
Sure, I mean, look at ByuN. He's even older in the scene than Jjakji, older in age, disappeared for almost an entire expansion, and for a long time didn't even have a team.
On December 14 2016 10:16 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On December 14 2016 10:12 Isillian wrote: Been a long time since I've seen Jjajki play, he any good any more? Can still just about remember his GSL run back in the day.
Outside of a brief surge in 2013 when he made it to the ro8, he hasn't been even close to top-tier. Qualifying for this is the best result I've seen from him in over a year.
Thanks for filling in the gaps for me Who knows, maybe he'll surprise us all!
Sure, I mean, look at ByuN. He's even older in the scene than Jjakji, older in age, disappeared for almost an entire expansion, and for a long time didn't even have a team.
Now he's a god.
Very good point, ByuN is amazing now and one of the players who helped me get back into watching Starcraft again earlier in the year. If he even starts playing close to ByuN's level, we're all in for a treat :D
Getting all-inned during a carrier transition was probably the only way herO could have lost. He could have thrown down a bunch of gateways and just killed Losira.
On December 14 2016 12:40 breaker1328 wrote: What the hell just happened in the losira/heRo game? Not even sure what I just saw.
Losira looked into his memory banks all the way back to 2012 and remembered this oft used nydus queen roach allin and thought that punk ass herO wont see this shit coming.
Overall some awesome allins from zergs. I think that protosses throwing their adepts into mineral lines => having nothing at home is really getting figured out, which is pretty cool
Even though Zest's results have picked up recently since his big slump, I still haven't really been that impressed by his play (especially in PvT and PvP, and PvZ he basically just goes DT drop every single game). Not too unexpected that he lost to Trust, and Trust actually looks pretty good.
On December 14 2016 16:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On December 14 2016 16:04 Ej_ wrote: good morning everyone. How were the ZvPs? Carriers? 2 base all-ins?
Pretty good actually. Leencok vs Zest g1 and Losira vs herO g2 have probably been the two best games today.
Low on carriers, fair amount of all-ins
what do the KR Protoss play? Last games I saw were either phoenix->carrier or twilight tech all-ins.
From the one game I saw, game 3 of Leenock v. Trust, your comment is actually fairly accurate. Trust did a 2-bases 7-gates Prism all-in with mass Blink Stalkers and used 3 Sentries with accumulated energy to Forcefield off Leenock's main ramp while his Stalkers blinked up. Pretty damn effective, actually, even in spite of Leenock detecting it and making units preemptively
What's with all the Zergs playing just Roaches-Ravagers? I think that composition is seriously deficient and allows lesser Terrans to just drop everywhere and take the fight to them
On December 14 2016 16:31 EatingBomber wrote: What's with all the Zergs playing just Roaches-Ravagers? I think that composition is seriously deficient and allows lesser Terrans to just drop everywhere and take the fight to them
On December 14 2016 16:36 Elentos wrote: Hi guys, I'm in the land of the living now after watching from my bed the entire time. Still can't believe Zest got knocked out in last in his group.
I played against burrow roach/ravager on ladder the other day, it's actually disgustingly strong.
I mean, it's only strong if you are caught off guard and there are Roaches in every mineral line, right? After the 3-bases economy is established would it not be appropriate to build a Turret at every base when playing agaisnt RR?
On December 14 2016 16:36 Elentos wrote: Hi guys, I'm in the land of the living now after watching from my bed the entire time. Still can't believe Zest got knocked out in last in his group.
I played against burrow roach/ravager on ladder the other day, it's actually disgustingly strong.
I mean, it's only strong if you are caught off guard and there are Roaches in every mineral line, right? After the 3-bases economy is established would it not be appropriate to build a Turret at every base when playing agaisnt RR?
The first time I got caught off guard by it and got rekt on the moveout. The second time against the same player I was totally ready with turrets but with single tank production I still got rekt in the big fights so I couldn't even hold a fourth. It seems kinda impossible to move out ever.
On December 14 2016 16:44 Ej_ wrote: So I guess Echo is Dark's new "can't play ling/bane" map.
He also went RR against Inno on Overgrowth in Shoutcraft (although in that game he just maxed on RR in like 8:30 and went across to kill him, no infestors n stuff).
On December 14 2016 16:43 Ej_ wrote: I actually think Daybreak isn't that good for LotV ZvT. Pretty choky in the middle and you can't expand away from your opponent after 4th.
yeah that's why Nerchio lost to INnoVation on this map
On December 14 2016 16:59 Elentos wrote: Has Maru ever done anything other than the 2-1-1 against Zerg ever since the build was shown for the first time?
I guess he nuke rushed the foreigners at WESG...
Since Maru doesn't generally play in online events the number of TvZs he's played since then is pretty small tbf.
On December 14 2016 16:59 Elentos wrote: Has Maru ever done anything other than the 2-1-1 against Zerg ever since the build was shown for the first time?
I guess he nuke rushed the foreigners at WESG...
Since Maru doesn't generally play in online events the number of TvZs he's played since then is pretty small tbf.
On December 14 2016 17:10 Elentos wrote: The most impressive thing was how Solar managed to collect every disgusting widow mine shot possible tbh.
I think he was able to dodge most of them, but Maru just had a shit ton of Widow mines Like splitting against 3 Widow mines and then losing 8 banes to the fourth
On December 14 2016 17:10 Elentos wrote: The most impressive thing was how Solar managed to collect every disgusting widow mine shot possible tbh.
To be fair I think Maru abused that map incredibly well
I really don't like Habitation for Zerg at all because of the terrain. I guess Solar must have vetoed Echo and Vaani (although vs bio I don't think Echo is that bad).
On December 14 2016 17:24 DJHelium wrote: Good morning, how was jjakji vs Dark? Slaughter?
Nice games from Maru, looking solid.
jjakji started out really well in both games and did a lot of good things (lots of drop harass damage for example) but as the games went on Dark ended up rolling over him.
On December 14 2016 17:24 DJHelium wrote: Good morning, how was jjakji vs Dark? Slaughter?
Nice games from Maru, looking solid.
jjakji started out really well in both games and did a lot of good things (lots of drop harass damage for example) but as the games went on Dark ended up rolling over him.
On December 14 2016 17:10 Elentos wrote: The most impressive thing was how Solar managed to collect every disgusting widow mine shot possible tbh.
To be fair I think Maru abused that map incredibly well
I really don't like Habitation for Zerg at all because of the terrain. I guess Solar must have vetoed Echo and Vaani (although vs bio I don't think Echo is that bad).
The problem is that the location of the critical fourth base for Zerg is very vulnerable, and this combined with the fact that it is quite easy to bounce between the 3rd and the main with Medivacs makes it actually quite hard for Zergs to defend against aggressive, multitask-heavy Terrans. Vaani is quite hard for Zergs to spread creep past the fourth, which, as numerous HotS series showed us (Polt vs Hydra and Bogus vs Life come to mind), can make it impossible to play
Classic's army spreading is very nice. His composition bothers me a little, but since it's Vaani it could work? No way to get an oracle really hurt Classic.
I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
He had the time to get 3 robos and power several cycles of immortals, so he could have gotten a stargate and oracles. I think he forgot considering the fact that he stuck to a single observer for so long after the lurkers were out.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
he could have made a stargate and a robo instead of 2 robos, then make up for it by producing 100% immortals out of his robos instead of obs + immos like he did.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
He had the time to get 3 robos and power several cycles of immortals, so he could have gotten a stargate and oracles. I think he forgot considering the fact that he stuck to a single observer for so long after the lurkers were out.
I remember in HSC there were a bunch of late game PvPs were high level Protoss players died because Patience had a mothership and they only had one observer.
I feel like outside of PvT they just don't bother with multiple obs anymore.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
He had the time to get 3 robos and power several cycles of immortals, so he could have gotten a stargate and oracles. I think he forgot considering the fact that he stuck to a single observer for so long after the lurkers were out.
I remember in HSC there were a bunch of late game PvPs were high level Protoss players died because Patience had a mothership and they only had one observer.
I feel like outside of PvT they just don't bother with multiple obs anymore.
I'm still waiting for PvP to become mass blink DT with blink stalkers to snipe observers.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
He had the time to get 3 robos and power several cycles of immortals, so he could have gotten a stargate and oracles. I think he forgot considering the fact that he stuck to a single observer for so long after the lurkers were out.
I remember in HSC there were a bunch of late game PvPs were high level Protoss players died because Patience had a mothership and they only had one observer.
I feel like outside of PvT they just don't bother with multiple obs anymore.
On December 14 2016 17:33 Charoisaur wrote: I think classics mistake was not making an oracle. observers just don't cut it vs lurkers, he lost so many units for free because he had no detection and then he had to use his robotics build time for obs instead of immos.
Yeah I thought we'd already established months ago that the optimal detection for lurkers is oracles. Then again after the first time he saw lurkers he didn't have much time to get a stargate.
He had the time to get 3 robos and power several cycles of immortals, so he could have gotten a stargate and oracles. I think he forgot considering the fact that he stuck to a single observer for so long after the lurkers were out.
I remember in HSC there were a bunch of late game PvPs were high level Protoss players died because Patience had a mothership and they only had one observer.
I feel like outside of PvT they just don't bother with multiple obs anymore.
to be fair robo build time is really valuable.
Pigbaby knew the way.
And this game is basically a LotV-updated version of every HotS PvZ on Overgrowth.
On December 14 2016 18:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote: This wins the prize for the worst nydus I've seen all year.
There are so many good contenders though
Impact-wise I can think of worse nyduses ( there were nyduses that turned winning games into losing ones, while this one only turned a losing one into a GG), but from a wtf-was-he-thinking perspective I think this one takes the crown.
Oh dude, the other day I played a guy on ladder who thought 1 cyclone lock-on was enough to kill a liberator. His mineral line paid dearly for his foolishness.
On December 14 2016 18:25 Elentos wrote: Oh dude, the other day I played a guy on ladder who thought 1 cyclone lock-on was enough to kill a liberator. His mineral line paid dearly for his foolishness.
On December 14 2016 18:24 Penev wrote: oh, soO first and Zest worst
Man back in 2014 those two were so evenly matched. The series they played back then were honestly some of the best of HoTS. Shame we couldn't see it today.
On December 14 2016 18:38 Musicus wrote: I think with tankivacs this game would have been over a bunch of times. I love this new (old) tvt.
This was over a while ago. The comeback potential entirely boils down to "I hope my opponent takes one really really bad fight he doesn't have to take"
On December 14 2016 18:43 Pandemona wrote: Fun Maru game, action action action. Byun early 12? scv kills proving crucial to him pulling ahead.
And his denial of a fourth.
Oh yeah that was the nail in the coffin for sure but the 5-8 minutes of back and forth in the mid game where Byun looked a bit flustered was key to him having a lead at that stage.
On December 14 2016 18:50 negativedge wrote: pretty sure that one qualifies as a bop
Literally killed him accidentally.
Well he did have his viking hit squad checking lower section of map whilst pushing top side i guess that was to check for any drop aggression from Byun too? So maybe calculated defense if Byun was pushing out in which he was.
On December 14 2016 18:50 negativedge wrote: pretty sure that one qualifies as a bop
Literally killed him accidentally.
Well he did have his viking hit squad checking lower section of map whilst pushing top side i guess that was to check for any drop aggression from Byun too? So maybe calculated defense if Byun was pushing out in which he was.
He was trying to catch the banshee and then he was trying to push himself. I don't think he counted on catching the double tank drop at all, let alone killing a tank, a raven and a medivac completely for free.
On December 14 2016 18:53 Penev wrote: MorroW should come back and reclaim the king of the reaper title
I saw a highlight on reddit last week or so of MorroW massing vikings against Protoss after the patch and going like "Do people in Korea do this? Cause I wouldn't be surprised" after landing them and destroying everything.
On December 14 2016 18:53 Penev wrote: MorroW should come back and reclaim the king of the reaper title
I saw a highlight on reddit last week or so of MorroW massing vikings against Protoss after the patch and going like "Do people in Korea do this? Cause I wouldn't be surprised" after landing them and destroying everything.
Now Idra has to come back as well just to lose v MorroW to a mass Viking build
On December 14 2016 19:00 Elentos wrote: Auto turrets are so broken honestly
And boring
You can do cool stuff with auto-turrets but you need more than 1 raven and if you get more than 1 raven you start massing them and then they get really boring.
On December 14 2016 19:00 Elentos wrote: Auto turrets are so broken honestly
And boring
You can do cool stuff with auto-turrets but you need more than 1 raven and if you get more than 1 raven you start massing them and then they get really boring.
Hmm, what is this "cool stuff" regarding auto turrets? ^^
On December 14 2016 19:00 Elentos wrote: Auto turrets are so broken honestly
And boring
You can do cool stuff with auto-turrets but you need more than 1 raven and if you get more than 1 raven you start massing them and then they get really boring.
Hmm, what is this "cool stuff" regarding auto turrets? ^^
You can influence unit pathing and block bigger units.
On December 14 2016 19:00 Elentos wrote: Auto turrets are so broken honestly
And boring
You can do cool stuff with auto-turrets but you need more than 1 raven and if you get more than 1 raven you start massing them and then they get really boring.
Hmm, what is this "cool stuff" regarding auto turrets? ^^
You can influence unit pathing and block bigger units.
You know how far behind SC2 TvT is when you still see simultaneous siege tank unsieging happening. BW TvT players would have never unsieged all tanks all at once
On December 14 2016 19:08 sharkie wrote: You know how far behind SC2 TvT is when you still see simultaneous siege tank unsieging happening. BW TvT players would have never unsieged all tanks all at once
On December 14 2016 19:09 Penev wrote: Noonius is in hell
Given his non-existent posting frequency recently probably literally in hell.
Before the match I favored Maru because of his great series against TY in the qualifier. Then after game 1 I doubted him and then he turned it around really well.
On December 14 2016 19:11 Nerchio wrote: Have we seen any carriers so far
herO tried to go carriers and lost to roach/queen/nydus, Classic defended roach/queen/nydus on 2SG phoenix and the Zerg tapped out before fleet beacon was made
On December 14 2016 19:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: MARU WON?!
TvT, back to having the best comeback potential.
Maru was never really behind because he always kept his huge tank lead. All ByuN could do was run away from his army and lose units on the retreat. Guess now that the tankivac's gone Maru's back to top 1 TvT
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
well it's a move you can only do if there aren't enemy vikings to snipe the liberator in question
besides you can always just unsiege the ones in trouble and move them back, if there are a few sieged tanks a little behind and the other guy moves forward it could be a bop
The tankivac removal and damage increase have surely helped make TvT great again. It's really a pitty that the races have to be the same for all matchups - otherwise, it would be pretty messy, I understand, but it makes making the units interesting in all matchups pretty hard, because the pickup was great in TvZ.
What was Maru been doing lately anyway? Haven't seen much of him and then he comes and beats THE WORLD CHAMPION.
On December 14 2016 19:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: MARU WON?!
TvT, back to having the best comeback potential.
Maru was never really behind because he always kept his huge tank lead. All ByuN could do was run away from his army and lose units on the retreat. Guess now that the tankivac's gone Maru's back to top 1 TvT
Maru was already best tvter with tankivacs. didn't he have almost a 100% winrate in tvt? before the loss vs TY ofc
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
well it's a move you can only do if there aren't enemy vikings to snipe the liberator in question
besides you can always just unsiege the ones in trouble and move them back, if there are a few sieged tanks a little behind and the other guy moves forward it could be a bop
Well yeah you would need air superiority, i think that could be extremely strong though. Banshees were used in a similar way, at least these don't have 500 range
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
In practice it's pretty fair though.
Right now, i wonder if players didn't figure it out yet though. Air advantage with some libs seems broken to me in theory
I've seen Maru and TY do it. The problem is often that you can sacrifice a few marines to clear out a liberator. If you're behind on air on even armies you have more marines anyway.
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
In practice it's pretty fair though.
Right now, i wonder if players didn't figure it out yet though. Air advantage with some libs seems broken to me in theory
I've seen Maru and TY do it. The problem is often that you can sacrifice a few marines to clear out a liberator. If you're behind on air on even armies you have more marines anyway.
Maybe, i feel like you could "easily" position your army to deny that though considering the range of libs
On December 14 2016 19:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: MARU WON?!
TvT, back to having the best comeback potential.
Maru was never really behind because he always kept his huge tank lead. All ByuN could do was run away from his army and lose units on the retreat. Guess now that the tankivac's gone Maru's back to top 1 TvT
Maru was already best tvter with tankivacs. didn't he have almost a 100% winrate in tvt? before the loss vs TY ofc
The thing is that outside of Proleague which is BO1 he only had very few longer series against good players. And in the biggest match he lost. He was not the best TvTer right before the patch came out, let's just say that.
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
In practice it's pretty fair though.
Right now, i wonder if players didn't figure it out yet though. Air advantage with some libs seems broken to me in theory
I've seen Maru and TY do it. The problem is often that you can sacrifice a few marines to clear out a liberator. If you're behind on air on even armies you have more marines anyway.
Maybe, i feel like you could "easily" position your army to deny that though considering the range of libs
The range of liberators is really low before you get the upgrade but you can only afford that really late into the game.
On December 14 2016 19:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: MARU WON?!
TvT, back to having the best comeback potential.
Maru was never really behind because he always kept his huge tank lead. All ByuN could do was run away from his army and lose units on the retreat. Guess now that the tankivac's gone Maru's back to top 1 TvT
Maru was already best tvter with tankivacs. didn't he have almost a 100% winrate in tvt? before the loss vs TY ofc
The thing is that outside of Proleague which is BO1 he only had very few longer series against good players. And in the biggest match he lost. He was not the best TvTer before the patch came out, let's just say that.
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
In practice it's pretty fair though.
Right now, i wonder if players didn't figure it out yet though. Air advantage with some libs seems broken to me in theory
I've seen Maru and TY do it. The problem is often that you can sacrifice a few marines to clear out a liberator. If you're behind on air on even armies you have more marines anyway.
Maybe, i feel like you could "easily" position your army to deny that though considering the range of libs
The range of liberators is really low before you get the upgrade but you can only afford that really late into the game.
However, given the casting range, the actual maximum distance a Liberator can reach is theoretically 10 without the upgrade, and 14 with the upgrade
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
In practice it's pretty fair though.
Right now, i wonder if players didn't figure it out yet though. Air advantage with some libs seems broken to me in theory
I've seen Maru and TY do it. The problem is often that you can sacrifice a few marines to clear out a liberator. If you're behind on air on even armies you have more marines anyway.
Maybe, i feel like you could "easily" position your army to deny that though considering the range of libs
The range of liberators is really low before you get the upgrade but you can only afford that really late into the game.
On December 14 2016 19:08 Incognoto wrote: the mechanic of using the liberator to force an unsiege is very interesting
Disagree heavily, due to the liberator range it seems very stupid to me
In practice it's pretty fair though.
Right now, i wonder if players didn't figure it out yet though. Air advantage with some libs seems broken to me in theory
I've seen Maru and TY do it. The problem is often that you can sacrifice a few marines to clear out a liberator. If you're behind on air on even armies you have more marines anyway.
Maybe, i feel like you could "easily" position your army to deny that though considering the range of libs
The range of liberators is really low before you get the upgrade but you can only afford that really late into the game.
However, given the casting range, the actual maximum distance a Liberator can reach is theoretically 10 without the upgrade, and 14 with the upgrade
Seems good to me tbh
Half of that is the radius of the circle, in reality the liberator is way closer.
I am actually not sure what you mean with that, 10 range is 10 range
On December 14 2016 19:29 Elentos wrote: Thors are good by the way people who play against L/B/M
The only real way i can win against zerg atm is 3 rax reaper I have like 40% winrate
3-rax is the only thing that's 100% a loss when I do it
Well not that i win with the reapers, but usually i can transition and the zerg builds way too much defense
Usually what happens is that they make a lot of units, I get surrounded and lose most of my reapers because I can't micro them for shit and then the follow-up goes horribly wrong for me. Frozen Temple was my decent 3-rax map.
Zerg players in diamond just like to make units. Yesterday I played a guy who did a ravager rush first so I had to float my natural away and bunker on the high ground (I was doing a 2-1-1 so keeping units at home is really bad), then expanded and massed 55 speedbanes on 2 bases.
On December 14 2016 19:29 Elentos wrote: Thors are good by the way people who play against L/B/M
The only real way i can win against zerg atm is 3 rax reaper I have like 40% winrate
3-rax is the only thing that's 100% a loss when I do it
Well not that i win with the reapers, but usually i can transition and the zerg builds way too much defense
Usually what happens is that they make a lot of units, I get surrounded and lose most of my reapers because I can't micro them for shit and then the follow-up goes horribly wrong for me. Frozen Temple was my decent 3-rax map.
Zerg players in diamond just like to make units. Yesterday I played a guy who did a ravager rush first so I had to float my natural away and bunker on the high ground (I was doing a 2-1-1 so keeping units at home is really bad), then expanded and massed 55 speedbanes on 2 bases.
My 2v2 partner (who I happen to be married to) plays Terran - she doesn't play 1v1, but I'd guess she'd be somewhere around gold. She has 6000 games as Terran and did not know a couple of days ago, if you need a techlab to make a reaper or not - she just considers them completely useless at her level, because when she had build one in the past, it always died without doing anything, because she wouldn't micro it enough.
On December 14 2016 19:29 Elentos wrote: Thors are good by the way people who play against L/B/M
The only real way i can win against zerg atm is 3 rax reaper I have like 40% winrate
3-rax is the only thing that's 100% a loss when I do it
Well not that i win with the reapers, but usually i can transition and the zerg builds way too much defense
Usually what happens is that they make a lot of units, I get surrounded and lose most of my reapers because I can't micro them for shit and then the follow-up goes horribly wrong for me. Frozen Temple was my decent 3-rax map.
Zerg players in diamond just like to make units. Yesterday I played a guy who did a ravager rush first so I had to float my natural away and bunker on the high ground (I was doing a 2-1-1 so keeping units at home is really bad), then expanded and massed 55 speedbanes on 2 bases.
Oh yeah i know, usually 1-2 tanks are really good at holding pretty much anything, at least in my experience. You have to trade somewhat decently with the grenades though, REALLY easy vs roaches, speedlings are tricky though and i lose against that as well^^ Not sure what else i can do vs zerg, to me it looks like zerg can do whatever it wants and be at least even^^
ByuN lost? Fuck I missed the games, I guess no tankivacs really screwed with his playstyle :/. Hopefully iASonu wins so ByuN has a bit of a shot to qualify.
On December 14 2016 19:29 Elentos wrote: Thors are good by the way people who play against L/B/M
The only real way i can win against zerg atm is 3 rax reaper I have like 40% winrate
3-rax is the only thing that's 100% a loss when I do it
Well not that i win with the reapers, but usually i can transition and the zerg builds way too much defense
Usually what happens is that they make a lot of units, I get surrounded and lose most of my reapers because I can't micro them for shit and then the follow-up goes horribly wrong for me. Frozen Temple was my decent 3-rax map.
Zerg players in diamond just like to make units. Yesterday I played a guy who did a ravager rush first so I had to float my natural away and bunker on the high ground (I was doing a 2-1-1 so keeping units at home is really bad), then expanded and massed 55 speedbanes on 2 bases.
Oh yeah i know, usually 1-2 tanks are really good at holding pretty much anything, at least in my experience. You have to trade somewhat decently with the grenades though, REALLY easy vs roaches, speedlings are tricky though and i lose against that as well^^ Not sure what else i can do vs zerg, to me it looks like zerg can do whatever it wants and be at least even^^
Generally I open with some form of pressure (2-1-1 on Whirlwind, hellion/banshee or mine drops on other maps), then look to get a push going in the midgame and if I can't get a kill I try to transition into anti-hive units. If it's roach based play I stay more defensive with multiple factories making tanks.
On December 14 2016 19:44 Elentos wrote: Oh and in case anyone was wondering, the 2-base 55 speedbane all-in did not beat 3 tanks and 19 marines
Yeah tanks are really good :D
The thing is because of the early game I had no natural wall so all the banes just rolled in so I did my best to target fire and split and stuff and just when I was getting really concerned he rolled his last few banes into my SCVs and I was like "Yes, I'm saved!"
On December 14 2016 19:29 Elentos wrote: Thors are good by the way people who play against L/B/M
The only real way i can win against zerg atm is 3 rax reaper I have like 40% winrate
3-rax is the only thing that's 100% a loss when I do it
Well not that i win with the reapers, but usually i can transition and the zerg builds way too much defense
Usually what happens is that they make a lot of units, I get surrounded and lose most of my reapers because I can't micro them for shit and then the follow-up goes horribly wrong for me. Frozen Temple was my decent 3-rax map.
Zerg players in diamond just like to make units. Yesterday I played a guy who did a ravager rush first so I had to float my natural away and bunker on the high ground (I was doing a 2-1-1 so keeping units at home is really bad), then expanded and massed 55 speedbanes on 2 bases.
Oh yeah i know, usually 1-2 tanks are really good at holding pretty much anything, at least in my experience. You have to trade somewhat decently with the grenades though, REALLY easy vs roaches, speedlings are tricky though and i lose against that as well^^ Not sure what else i can do vs zerg, to me it looks like zerg can do whatever it wants and be at least even^^
Generally I open with some form of pressure (2-1-1 on Whirlwind, hellion/banshee or mine drops on other maps), then look to get a push going in the midgame and if I can't get a kill I try to transition into anti-hive units. If it's roach based play I stay more defensive with multiple factories making tanks.
Hm yeah i try to do that as well but for me most zerg players defend well enough. I think the real problem is that i am too defensive in the midgame though, have to work on that
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
Was going for an marine-tank-medivac attack on Daybreak. Got caught by Maru who had quite a lot of vikings, killed a medivac with a tank and chased and killed a lot more army.
On December 14 2016 20:07 Elentos wrote: Next tournament
Solar: "I want to destroy China"
Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
On December 14 2016 20:08 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] Are you there for the ro8 in 14 hours? I waited and you didn't appear for the group stage :/
I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
On December 14 2016 20:10 Elentos wrote: [quote] I was watching from my bed for most of it. I missed the shitposting but sitting in my chair for so long would have suuuuuuucked. So I'm not sure I'll be alive when the Ro8 comes around :S
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
You guys have such a romantic relationship. Tell us more!
I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
On December 14 2016 20:14 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
On December 14 2016 20:14 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] I didn't see you either i think I obviously miss the LR guys :/
You should have joined Team LickyPiddy+Live Report in our epic quest to try and win some games in the Wardi Team League. We'll have our first match soon™
Don't even know what that is tbh :O
It's the biggest online team league <.<
Is there a liquipedia page for this? Next time i am on board, didn't really pay a lot of attention to the tourney threads the last few weeks because nothing big was going on
On December 14 2016 20:37 Elentos wrote: How can he be the best Terran in the world when he isn't the best Terran in the group?
By having individual titles I guess. Qualifying #1 in IEM group stage is nice and all but qualifying for Blizzcon would have been better. Poor Maru, never when it matters. And there is no proleague next year...
On December 14 2016 20:37 Elentos wrote: How can he be the best Terran in the world when he isn't the best Terran in the group?
By having individual titles I guess. Qualifying #1 in IEM group stage is nice and all but qualifying for Blizzcon would have been better. Poor Maru, never when it matters. And there is no proleague next year...
It's time for a new Korean league to be introduced so Maru can be the first and only triple royal roader.
On December 14 2016 20:37 Elentos wrote: How can he be the best Terran in the world when he isn't the best Terran in the group?
By having individual titles I guess. Qualifying #1 in IEM group stage is nice and all but qualifying for Blizzcon would have been better. Poor Maru, never when it matters. And there is no proleague next year...
It's time for a new Korean league to be introduced so Maru can be the first and only triple royal roader.
On December 14 2016 20:37 Elentos wrote: How can he be the best Terran in the world when he isn't the best Terran in the group?
By having individual titles I guess. Qualifying #1 in IEM group stage is nice and all but qualifying for Blizzcon would have been better. Poor Maru, never when it matters. And there is no proleague next year...
It's time for a new Korean league to be introduced so Maru can be the first and only triple royal roader.
On December 14 2016 20:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: Byun's splits are so bad tbh
That's what you get when you win 80% of your TvZs before baneling speed finishes
Haha yeah it doesn't seem to matter, still from the best micro player in the world i would expect more
I've noted this in the past (e.g. during the VSL), his splits are not top tier level. Overall though his micro is still very good, especially his focus fire.
On December 14 2016 20:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: Byun's splits are so bad tbh
That's what you get when you win 80% of your TvZs before baneling speed finishes
Haha yeah it doesn't seem to matter, still from the best micro player in the world i would expect more
I've noted this in the past (e.g. during the VSL), his splits are not top tier level. Overall though his micro is still very good, especially his focus fire.
Oh yeah even though i cannot hear it anymore "wow byun focus fires these banelings OMG!!!!" -.-
On December 14 2016 20:53 opisska wrote: There are just 4 options how the draw can end up. Just call them 1-4 and roll a dice. Problem solved in 5 seconds
Oh, they are also drawing the X1 players. So there are 3 actually different options how that goes and once this is fixed, there are 4 options for the X2 players, so they have 12 options.
On December 14 2016 20:53 opisska wrote: There are just 4 options how the draw can end up. Just call them 1-4 and roll a dice. Problem solved in 5 seconds
But then you wouldn't have Funka playing with balls
On December 14 2016 20:53 opisska wrote: There are just 4 options how the draw can end up. Just call them 1-4 and roll a dice. Problem solved in 5 seconds
But then you wouldn't have Funka playing with balls
On December 14 2016 20:57 Musicus wrote: Every single match from here on out is so hype. The semis and finals will be insane.
"Every single match!" "Innovation vs Trust"
Honestly, who is Trust? I am a self-confessed fan of korean SC2 and still have no idea who that is.
He used to be on CJ as a rookie, he was in Code S a few times, then joined KT for Proleague this year. But this top 8 is already the best tournament result of his career.
On December 14 2016 20:57 Musicus wrote: Every single match from here on out is so hype. The semis and finals will be insane.
"Every single match!" "Innovation vs Trust"
Honestly, who is Trust? I am a self-confessed fan of korean SC2 and still have no idea who that is.
He was a B-teamer for CJ and KT for a few years who occasionally showed a good match or two
Oh, being a B-teamer for KweneverchangethelineupT clearly explains his lack of fame
Hey, no fair, he played almost as many Proleague games in his one year on KT as he did in 3 seasons on CJ. I think Trust's other biggest claim to fame is that he went through SSL Challenge in season 2 after beating sOs in a tie breaker.
On December 14 2016 20:57 Musicus wrote: Every single match from here on out is so hype. The semis and finals will be insane.
"Every single match!" "Innovation vs Trust"
Honestly, who is Trust? I am a self-confessed fan of korean SC2 and still have no idea who that is.
He was a B-teamer for CJ and KT for a few years who occasionally showed a good match or two
Oh, being a B-teamer for KweneverchangethelineupT clearly explains his lack of fame
Hey, no fair, he played almost as many Proleague games in his one year on KT as he did in 3 seasons on CJ. I think Trust's other biggest claim to fame is that he went through SSL Challenge in season 2 after beating sOs in a tie breaker.
he also was really valuable in getting KT to the proleague finals, taking out INnoVation.
Trust beat TY to qualify, maybe he can do something vs Inno? Although I think even without the pressure of playing offline (which Trust probably isn't very used to) this would be highly Inno favored.
So we watched the recommended games and they are pretty good - and then we thought what to watch next and my wife just said that she wants to see Innovation. Does it mean she is an actual Innovation fan? Should I file for divorce or give her a second chance?!
On December 15 2016 04:08 opisska wrote: So we watched the recommended games and they are pretty good - and then we thought what to watch next and my wife just said that she wants to see Innovation. Does it mean she is an actual Innovation fan? Should I file for divorce or give her a second chance?!
Step 1: Did you make sure she was talking about the player and not innovative new plays?
Step 2: Show her the most boring INnoVation games you can think of if it is the former
Step 3: If it turns out she's an INnoVation fan, secretly prepare emergency divorce papers and keep observing her behavior
Step 4: If you start having suspicions that your wife has been replaced with a robot, evacuate.
On December 15 2016 04:08 opisska wrote: So we watched the recommended games and they are pretty good - and then we thought what to watch next and my wife just said that she wants to see Innovation. Does it mean she is an actual Innovation fan? Should I file for divorce or give her a second chance?!
Step 1: Did you make sure she was talking about the player and not innovative new plays?
Step 2: Show her the most boring INnoVation games you can think of if it is the former
Step 3: If it turns out she's an INnoVation fan, secretly prepare emergency divorce papers and keep observing her behavior
Step 4: If you start having suspicions that your wife has been replaced with a robot, evacuate.
I asked her upfront and she assured me that it, quote "does not compute", so I am calm now. Very, very demonstratively calm.
EPT
OGaming | 
Take TV |
ESL PL | 
ESL RU | 
ESL BR ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2EGwEAn.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/611.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
Stats vs 
INnoVation![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/688.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/682.jpg)
Losira vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/977.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1971.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4761.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/634.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4729.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1979.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1097.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/680.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/951.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6013.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1850.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4797.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/sOHQf/da45082f65.png)
WardiTV Team League S7
