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On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:50 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 07:43 sharkie wrote:You know what's funny? Each time I call out Smix for her mistakes people tell me "its only one mistake" hehe. Kinda funny how often people can do "only one mistake".  I dunno I found her doing a good job, she is translating so it's cool. Plus it's not like the interesting thing is what the host says, it's the players you're supposed to listen to. Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either  You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain.
Too bad Idra/Naniwa don't play anymore huh. But that's something players could also work on, being more entertaining. You don't have to be MC lvl, but a bit more than NOTHING would be good.
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On October 29 2016 08:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:50 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 07:43 sharkie wrote:You know what's funny? Each time I call out Smix for her mistakes people tell me "its only one mistake" hehe. Kinda funny how often people can do "only one mistake". I dunno I found her doing a good job, she is translating so it's cool. Plus it's not like the interesting thing is what the host says, it's the players you're supposed to listen to. Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Too bad Idra/Naniwa don't play anymore huh. But that's something players could also work on, being more entertaining. You don't have to be MC lvl, but a bit more than NOTHING would be good.
But our Korean overlords (and Neeb) taught us that the key to success is being an emotionless robot. Will we ever recover from that?
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On October 29 2016 08:05 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:59 Shellshock wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:
In other news, SetGuitarsToKill will lose his signature tomorrow What was his bet? Neeb vs Zest Surprised he bet on Zest
Zest will obviously stop that ridiculous pvp streak
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TY vs Nerchio game 3 lasted 32 minutes and 17 seconds. That is twice as long as the entire ByuN vs viOlet series.
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France12758 Posts
On October 29 2016 08:06 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:05 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:50 Poopi wrote:
[quote]
I dunno I found her doing a good job, she is translating so it's cool. Plus it's not like the interesting thing is what the host says, it's the players you're supposed to listen to. Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Like Life? Although bl/infestor helped him rise to fame he wasn't that bad skillwise but he turned out to be quite villain indeed. No preferably not the kind of villain actually damages the scene to that degree.
Not really a villain then ^^'.
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On October 29 2016 08:07 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:50 Poopi wrote:
[quote]
I dunno I found her doing a good job, she is translating so it's cool. Plus it's not like the interesting thing is what the host says, it's the players you're supposed to listen to. Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Too bad Idra/Naniwa don't play anymore huh. But that's something players could also work on, being more entertaining. You don't have to be MC lvl, but a bit more than NOTHING would be good. But our Korean overlords (and Neeb) taught us that the key to success is being an emotionless robot. Will we ever recover from that?
It is hard to blame koreans because that "faceless korean" thing is/was mainly the language barrier. Other than that foreigners aren't that much better in the department either, and yes i think that's a problem tbh.
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On October 29 2016 08:09 Elentos wrote:
TY vs Nerchio game 3 lasted 32 minutes and 17 seconds. That is twice as long as the entire ByuN vs viOlet series.
Pretty good game as well, like 8.5/10
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On October 29 2016 08:10 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:06 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:05 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Like Life? Although bl/infestor helped him rise to fame he wasn't that bad skillwise but he turned out to be quite villain indeed. No preferably not the kind of villain actually damages the scene to that degree. Not really a villain then ^^'.
Someone you can hate because of their personality but you can't take anything away from their love for the game or their skill.
It's like if Naniwa still cared.
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France12758 Posts
Neeb vs Zest is hard to predict because Koreans are struggling so much in PvP atm that I think being in KR doesn't get you good PvP practice. However, Zest has hit the highest peak of skill among Korean protosses so if there is one hope for a Korean protoss to be able to come up to a solution for Neeb / foreign P insane PvP, it's Zest.
So I expect Zest to be pissed off enough to recover his skills and finish #1.
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On October 29 2016 08:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:09 Elentos wrote:
TY vs Nerchio game 3 lasted 32 minutes and 17 seconds. That is twice as long as the entire ByuN vs viOlet series. Pretty good game as well, like 8.5/10
more like a perfect ten
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On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:50 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 07:43 sharkie wrote:You know what's funny? Each time I call out Smix for her mistakes people tell me "its only one mistake" hehe. Kinda funny how often people can do "only one mistake". I dunno I found her doing a good job, she is translating so it's cool. Plus it's not like the interesting thing is what the host says, it's the players you're supposed to listen to. Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain.
You mean $o$ ? /sarc
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On October 29 2016 08:12 Poopi wrote:
Neeb vs Zest is hard to predict because Koreans are struggling so much in PvP atm that I think being in KR doesn't get you good PvP practice. However, Zest has hit the highest peak of skill among Korean protosses so if there is one hope for a Korean protoss to be able to come up to a solution for Neeb / foreign P insane PvP, it's Zest.
So I expect Zest to be pissed off enough to recover his skills and finish #1.
I usually take the foreigner hype side but yeah Zest did play poorly vs Neeb in Kespa, substandard micro and floating loads of resources. Really looking fwd to both players at their peak
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France12758 Posts
On October 29 2016 08:11 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:10 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 08:06 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:05 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
[quote]
Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Like Life? Although bl/infestor helped him rise to fame he wasn't that bad skillwise but he turned out to be quite villain indeed. No preferably not the kind of villain actually damages the scene to that degree. Not really a villain then ^^'. Someone you can hate because of their personality but you can't take anything away from their love for the game or their skill. It's like if Naniwa still cared.
The true villains are all these P/Z who dared to play the horrible 1 hour games with swarm host... it's Blizzard fault as often but still, it was so mean for the viewers.
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On October 29 2016 08:16 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:12 Poopi wrote:
Neeb vs Zest is hard to predict because Koreans are struggling so much in PvP atm that I think being in KR doesn't get you good PvP practice. However, Zest has hit the highest peak of skill among Korean protosses so if there is one hope for a Korean protoss to be able to come up to a solution for Neeb / foreign P insane PvP, it's Zest.
So I expect Zest to be pissed off enough to recover his skills and finish #1.
I usually take the foreigner hype side but yeah Zest did play poorly vs Neeb in Kespa, substandard micro and floating loads of resources. Really looking fwd to both players at their peak
I mean he still has those when he's playing at his peak, he just still wins.
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On October 29 2016 08:06 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:05 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:50 Poopi wrote:
[quote]
I dunno I found her doing a good job, she is translating so it's cool. Plus it's not like the interesting thing is what the host says, it's the players you're supposed to listen to. Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Like Life? Although bl/infestor helped him rise to fame he wasn't that bad skillwise but he turned out to be quite villain indeed. No preferably not the kind of villain actually damages the scene to that degree.
Theory: Life matchfixed to kill the scene, so that we wouldnt have to see it die a slow and painful death, and so that he would take the blame and not the game and scene he loves so much.
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On October 29 2016 08:19 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:06 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:05 Poopi wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Like Life? Although bl/infestor helped him rise to fame he wasn't that bad skillwise but he turned out to be quite villain indeed. No preferably not the kind of villain actually damages the scene to that degree. Theory: Life matchfixed to kill the scene, so that we wouldnt have to see it die a slow and painful death, and so that he would take the blame and not the game and scene he loves so much.
And the player character is actually the villain in the Gen 1 Pokémon games.
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On October 29 2016 08:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:07 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:52 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
Although I think it was ToD who said it yesterday (I forgot who exactly it was), usually right before and after the match you can't get as much out of the players. The WCS Signature series got us more personality out of some of these guys than 100 winner interviews. Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Too bad Idra/Naniwa don't play anymore huh. But that's something players could also work on, being more entertaining. You don't have to be MC lvl, but a bit more than NOTHING would be good. But our Korean overlords (and Neeb) taught us that the key to success is being an emotionless robot. Will we ever recover from that? It is hard to blame koreans because that "faceless korean" thing is/was mainly the language barrier. Other than that foreigners aren't that much better in the department either, and yes i think that's a problem tbh.
...Not sure Idra and Naniwa are exactly the sort of players that should be role models TBH though.
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On October 29 2016 08:16 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:12 Poopi wrote:
Neeb vs Zest is hard to predict because Koreans are struggling so much in PvP atm that I think being in KR doesn't get you good PvP practice. However, Zest has hit the highest peak of skill among Korean protosses so if there is one hope for a Korean protoss to be able to come up to a solution for Neeb / foreign P insane PvP, it's Zest.
So I expect Zest to be pissed off enough to recover his skills and finish #1.
I usually take the foreigner hype side but yeah Zest did play poorly vs Neeb in Kespa, substandard micro and floating loads of resources. Really looking fwd to both players at their peak
Zest will ALWAYS float minerals, regardless of how good his form is. If he ain't banking 1k, he ain't Zest.
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On October 29 2016 08:24 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2016 08:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:07 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:04 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 08:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 29 2016 07:57 Elentos wrote:On October 29 2016 07:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
[quote]
Yeah the signature series was awesome and should have been a thing at every wcs event ever Although - and this is not a knock on anyone specific and isn't even exclusive to SC2 or eSports - I think part of why sometimes it's hard to get personality across is because some interview questions just seem standardized. I'm pretty sure I've heard "X just happened, what are your feelings about that?" in every sport and eSport. True but let's be honest, most players also aren't really that entertaining outside the game / aren't really extroverted personalities. Which is why these videos are a great way to build star players (build fanbases) because you can make it more interesting with the right techniques. Yeah I mean obviously you shouldn't talk about Zest's dead father right before or after a match. Well you don't have to press the emotional button every time either You could just show them having fun outside the game, etc. Show things people can relate to We just need this rich kid who is a total douche but who wins a ton. He could be our ultimate Starcraft villain. Too bad Idra/Naniwa don't play anymore huh. But that's something players could also work on, being more entertaining. You don't have to be MC lvl, but a bit more than NOTHING would be good. But our Korean overlords (and Neeb) taught us that the key to success is being an emotionless robot. Will we ever recover from that? It is hard to blame koreans because that "faceless korean" thing is/was mainly the language barrier. Other than that foreigners aren't that much better in the department either, and yes i think that's a problem tbh. ...Not sure Idra and Naniwa are exactly the sort of players that should be role models TBH though.
You need them, at least in low numbers. You can't have a wrestling show without heels. Someone needs to be the bad guy that gets his ass kicked at the end of the story.
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"villains" are villains in esports because people get triggered by anything not because these people are actually bad human beings.
Anyone who shows some edges might become the villain just because he isn't afraid to be himself.
Stephano could have been a villain as well, somehow someway his "bad actions" were considered awesome though, "rockstar" or something.
It's funny how this works tbh
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