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On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:On July 29 2016 11:42 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2016 11:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I feel like all LotV matchups are worse than their HotS and WoL versions, with two exceptions. LotV ZvZ is actually really good, the best of all 3 expansions. I think LotV PvP is better than WoL PvP, but that's a really low bar to clear. All matchups involving T in LotV are pretty lame though imo. I would say ZvP is 100000 times better then hots and wol ZvP. I would even say PvT is better as well. ZvT has gone down, not as fun to watch or play (still not as bad as it could be... Wish muta/ling/bane was used more). ZvZ doesn't seem that different and I can't comment on TvT or PvP :p. TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing.
Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me.
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On July 29 2016 12:00 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 11:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 Charoisaur wrote:
the beauty about SH games were that the games often came down to the very last ressources and got super epic in the end. not just a timing push and 1 player dies it was a long strategic slugfest. I had multiple 2-3 hour long games vs SHs and they were so epic. It would be epic if there were actual interesting unit interactions. There were none. vikings vs vipers? PDD vs locusts? tanks vs infested terrans?
Thanks for proving my point 
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Never thought I'd see the day where people were nostalgic for old swarmhost era. I think it's a testament to how much the game has grown
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On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:On July 29 2016 11:42 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2016 11:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I feel like all LotV matchups are worse than their HotS and WoL versions, with two exceptions. LotV ZvZ is actually really good, the best of all 3 expansions. I think LotV PvP is better than WoL PvP, but that's a really low bar to clear. All matchups involving T in LotV are pretty lame though imo. I would say ZvP is 100000 times better then hots and wol ZvP. I would even say PvT is better as well. ZvT has gone down, not as fun to watch or play (still not as bad as it could be... Wish muta/ling/bane was used more). ZvZ doesn't seem that different and I can't comment on TvT or PvP :p. TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me.
I enjoyed it, and also enjoyed playing it (though, you could attribute that to the fact i just tended to mix in different 111 openers and play unorthodox).
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On July 29 2016 12:01 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 11:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 Charoisaur wrote:
the beauty about SH games were that the games often came down to the very last ressources and got super epic in the end. not just a timing push and 1 player dies it was a long strategic slugfest. I had multiple 2-3 hour long games vs SHs and they were so epic. It would be epic if there were actual interesting unit interactions. There were none. The swarmhost play forced out very positional gameplay from both the zerg and his opponents. See Flash vs Life on Sejong Station in TB's Shoutcraft Invitational for a really great example.
Sure, but if there is no interesting unit interaction going on this is meaningless to me
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On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:On July 29 2016 11:42 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2016 11:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I feel like all LotV matchups are worse than their HotS and WoL versions, with two exceptions. LotV ZvZ is actually really good, the best of all 3 expansions. I think LotV PvP is better than WoL PvP, but that's a really low bar to clear. All matchups involving T in LotV are pretty lame though imo. I would say ZvP is 100000 times better then hots and wol ZvP. I would even say PvT is better as well. ZvT has gone down, not as fun to watch or play (still not as bad as it could be... Wish muta/ling/bane was used more). ZvZ doesn't seem that different and I can't comment on TvT or PvP :p. TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me.
Polt's play was never about hitting timings, there were no upgrades or anything that he was waiting for. It was just really tactical play vs the protoss. TY was also doing this near the end of HotS vs Protoss, where he would build vikings and put them in places to intercept collossi.
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United States97277 Posts
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On July 29 2016 12:02 BretZ wrote:
Never thought I'd see the day where people were nostalgic for old swarmhost era. I think it's a testament to how much the game has grown
I was against the swarmhost patch from the start.
Seriously, is there a mod or something that implements old swarmhost behaviour? It can't be that hard to create, considering the functionality was implemented in the game.
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On July 29 2016 12:01 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 11:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 Charoisaur wrote:
the beauty about SH games were that the games often came down to the very last ressources and got super epic in the end. not just a timing push and 1 player dies it was a long strategic slugfest. I had multiple 2-3 hour long games vs SHs and they were so epic. It would be epic if there were actual interesting unit interactions. There were none. The swarmhost play forced out very positional gameplay from both the zerg and his opponents. See Flash vs Life on Sejong Station in TB's Shoutcraft Invitational for a really great example.
One of the huge problems with the whole turtle mech/swarmhost/mass raven bc bullshit was that it was really hard to distinguish 2 top players playing eachother vs some random fucks in eu gm. Usually there just wasnt that much skill displayed, and the whole positional thing was only really dynamic and interesting on a couple maps at most, the rest might as well have been planned out from the first minute of the game
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i still think that map is such a joke, does anyone take it seriously?
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On July 29 2016 12:02 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:On July 29 2016 11:42 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2016 11:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I feel like all LotV matchups are worse than their HotS and WoL versions, with two exceptions. LotV ZvZ is actually really good, the best of all 3 expansions. I think LotV PvP is better than WoL PvP, but that's a really low bar to clear. All matchups involving T in LotV are pretty lame though imo. I would say ZvP is 100000 times better then hots and wol ZvP. I would even say PvT is better as well. ZvT has gone down, not as fun to watch or play (still not as bad as it could be... Wish muta/ling/bane was used more). ZvZ doesn't seem that different and I can't comment on TvT or PvP :p. TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me. I enjoyed it, and also enjoyed playing it (though, you could attribute that to the fact i just tended to mix in different 111 openers and play unorthodox).
I come from a BW background, hence my preference for slow strategic positional games, rather than all-action one-punch-knockout games. It's a matter of personal taste, I guess. For instance, I enjoyed Rain in SC2.
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"It's a good map"
Rotti regarding Dasan station.
Wait this is Frozen Temple nvm.
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On July 29 2016 12:05 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 12:02 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:On July 29 2016 11:42 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]
I would say ZvP is 100000 times better then hots and wol ZvP. I would even say PvT is better as well. ZvT has gone down, not as fun to watch or play (still not as bad as it could be... Wish muta/ling/bane was used more).
ZvZ doesn't seem that different and I can't comment on TvT or PvP :p. TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me. I enjoyed it, and also enjoyed playing it (though, you could attribute that to the fact i just tended to mix in different 111 openers and play unorthodox). I come from a BW background, hence my preference for slow strategic positional games, rather than all-action one-punch-knockout games. It's a matter of personal taste, I guess. For instance, I enjoyed Rain in SC2.
If typical swarm host games or mech games from late hots is a worthy equivalent of bw's strategic and positional play, i mightve massively overrated bw
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On July 29 2016 12:09 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 12:05 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 12:02 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:
[quote]
TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me. I enjoyed it, and also enjoyed playing it (though, you could attribute that to the fact i just tended to mix in different 111 openers and play unorthodox). I come from a BW background, hence my preference for slow strategic positional games, rather than all-action one-punch-knockout games. It's a matter of personal taste, I guess. For instance, I enjoyed Rain in SC2. If typical swarm host games or mech games from late hots is a worthy equivalent of bw's strategic and positional play, i mightve massively overrated bw
Watch hero vs Mong which was played on sunday (asl). Swarmhost vs mech, pff -.-
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On July 29 2016 12:03 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:On July 29 2016 11:42 blade55555 wrote:On July 29 2016 11:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I feel like all LotV matchups are worse than their HotS and WoL versions, with two exceptions. LotV ZvZ is actually really good, the best of all 3 expansions. I think LotV PvP is better than WoL PvP, but that's a really low bar to clear. All matchups involving T in LotV are pretty lame though imo. I would say ZvP is 100000 times better then hots and wol ZvP. I would even say PvT is better as well. ZvT has gone down, not as fun to watch or play (still not as bad as it could be... Wish muta/ling/bane was used more). ZvZ doesn't seem that different and I can't comment on TvT or PvP :p. TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me. Polt's play was never about hitting timings, there were no upgrades or anything that he was waiting for. It was just really tactical play vs the protoss. TY was also doing this near the end of HotS vs Protoss, where he would build vikings and put them in places to intercept collossi.
Not making sharp specific timing attacks, in a strict sense. What I meant is that Polt's play was all about winning by mid-game. He just attacks non-stop, hoping to catch the right timing window when the Protoss is weak. Again, I feel like it's like throwing darts and hoping one sticks.
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Casters stressing about adepts leaving, meanwhile puck clicks on his pylon and cancels the zerg aggression without a care in the world
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does puck know shades can be cancelled?
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On July 29 2016 12:14 Aocowns wrote:
Casters stressing about adepts leaving, meanwhile puck clicks on his pylon and cancels the zerg aggression without a care in the world
The adepts came back 
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On July 29 2016 12:09 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 12:05 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 12:02 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Shellshock wrote:
[quote]
TvT was at its peak in WoL. Been downhill ever since imo I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me. I enjoyed it, and also enjoyed playing it (though, you could attribute that to the fact i just tended to mix in different 111 openers and play unorthodox). I come from a BW background, hence my preference for slow strategic positional games, rather than all-action one-punch-knockout games. It's a matter of personal taste, I guess. For instance, I enjoyed Rain in SC2. If typical swarm host games or mech games from late hots is a worthy equivalent of bw's strategic and positional play, i mightve massively overrated bw
No, they're different. BW late-game may be slow and drawn out, but there are always exciting skirmishes breaking out all over the map that could turn the tide dramatically without ending the game there and then. Of course, there are terrible BW late games too, by lesser players.
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On July 29 2016 12:15 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2016 12:09 Aocowns wrote:On July 29 2016 12:05 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 12:02 Luolis wrote:On July 29 2016 12:01 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:57 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:56 RKC wrote:On July 29 2016 11:52 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2016 11:47 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 29 2016 11:44 Luolis wrote:
[quote]
I definitely agree. Speedvacs and banshee change made it worse at Hots. Tankivacs killed it. I think HotS TvP is the best version of TvP, but I think all 3 variants of TvP have their own problems. really? I hated nothing more than HotS TvP. either it was scv pull or maru style mass drops playing cat and mouse with their army. the only time it was good was bio vs chargelot archon ht. Yeah, I never understood the excitement about HoTS TvP, even Maru's YOLO drop style. It's like watching someone keep throwing darts on the wall and hoping it sticks. Polt's TvP was really amazing. Not my cup of tea either. It's still the same cat and mouse running around the map with squads of MMMs trying to hit timings. Yeah, I can appreciate the tactical element. It's just looks one-dimensional to me. I enjoyed it, and also enjoyed playing it (though, you could attribute that to the fact i just tended to mix in different 111 openers and play unorthodox). I come from a BW background, hence my preference for slow strategic positional games, rather than all-action one-punch-knockout games. It's a matter of personal taste, I guess. For instance, I enjoyed Rain in SC2. If typical swarm host games or mech games from late hots is a worthy equivalent of bw's strategic and positional play, i mightve massively overrated bw No, they're different. BW late-game may be slow and drawn out, but there are always exciting skirmishes breaking out all over the map that could turn the tide dramatically without ending the game there and then. Of course, there are terrible BW late games too, by lesser players.
Yeah stuff actually dies in BW late-game. Also BW late-game isn't nearly as slow and drawn out as swarmhosts.
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EPT
