Cloak didn't finish at all. Taeja faked the liberator range upgrade because in their last series Taeja proxied fusion core on this map versus Zest. Tried to force a sg, that's all.
On April 15 2016 18:49 DerMeister wrote: Cloak didn't finish at all. Taeja faked the liberator range upgrade because in their last series Taeja proxied fusion core on this map versus Zest. Tried to force a sg, that's all.
On April 15 2016 19:03 Daswollvieh wrote: I already feel the salt coming... Hope protoss gets a nerf and zest slaughtered in the next match. Disgusting stuff.
This is what happens when you get the best player in the ro8 vs probably the worst :p
On April 15 2016 19:03 Daswollvieh wrote: I already feel the salt coming... Hope protoss gets a nerf and zest slaughtered in the next match. Disgusting stuff.
This is what happens when you get the best player in the ro8 vs probably the worst :p
On April 15 2016 19:04 Hurricaned wrote: Taeja does not belong in the Ro8. It's a miracle he made it this far but now against Zest he doesn't stand a chance.
I'd at least say he deserves it more than Losira. Zest is just a monster.
On April 15 2016 19:03 Daswollvieh wrote: I already feel the salt coming... Hope protoss gets a nerf and zest slaughtered in the next match. Disgusting stuff.
This is what happens when you get the best player in the ro8 vs probably the worst :p
It's not like there aren't two Terran in the Ro4 anyways... Also, I think Losira is worse
On April 15 2016 19:03 Daswollvieh wrote: I already feel the salt coming... Hope protoss gets a nerf and zest slaughtered in the next match. Disgusting stuff.
This is what happens when you get the best player in the ro8 vs probably the worst :p
On April 15 2016 19:08 Makro wrote: can't believe korea plays a cod like as a competitve game
Korea is a place where sleeping could potentially become a competitive game/sport, you just never know (They are quite competitive is what I'm trying to say)
On April 15 2016 19:03 Daswollvieh wrote: I already feel the salt coming... Hope protoss gets a nerf and zest slaughtered in the next match. Disgusting stuff.
This is what happens when you get the best player in the ro8 vs probably the worst :p
let me use some stupid invisible unit and then just defend at home by using supply depots. #justprotossthings
User was warned for this post
E: how am I not allowed to voice my disliking for the DT and PO Design? I didnt say toss is op even TL itself talks openly about the book of protoss bullshit but when Users do we get a warning? lol
i kinda dislike the new immortal. the change was made to allow for more skill but actually ive never seen anyone activating the ability manually. this way its just worse than the immortal from hots and it barely has counterplay (hitting all and then disenganging for several seconds is mostly not an option imo)
On April 15 2016 19:28 Eiltonn wrote: i kinda dislike the new immortal. the change was made to allow for more skill but actually ive never seen anyone activating the ability manually. this way its just worse than the immortal from hots and it barely has counterplay (hitting all and then disenganging for several seconds is mostly not an option imo)
agree, make the barrier not last as long and give it a longer cooldown, maybe then we'll see more counter play and manual use
On April 15 2016 19:28 Phredxor wrote: Welp. That was one sided.
Taeja confirmed not the mastermind people were saying
Taeja overhyped by people on TL? I would never expect that to happen...
Haha, I know, but it was still funny that some people were saying that he wanted to play Zest and were throwing around his previous record vs him and stuff.
I guess i'd do the same if I were a massive Taeja fan though.
TY will bop Zest. He's our last hope. But expect more changes to TvP. Some of those games are just...awful. I feel like TaeJa was always a step slower than he used to be and he was always playing from behind.
On April 15 2016 19:28 Eiltonn wrote: i kinda dislike the new immortal. the change was made to allow for more skill but actually ive never seen anyone activating the ability manually. this way its just worse than the immortal from hots and it barely has counterplay (hitting all and then disenganging for several seconds is mostly not an option imo)
agree, make the barrier not last as long and give it a longer cooldown, maybe then we'll see more counter play and manual use
I've actually seen a lot of Protoss players use the manual barrier. Granted, it's more in smaller engagements, but it distinguishes worse foreigners and Koreans from superior players.
On April 15 2016 19:33 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: TY will bop Zest. He's our last hope. But expect more changes to TvP. Some of those games are just...awful. I feel like TaeJa was always a step slower than he used to be and he was always playing from behind.
A simple "Zest is best | KT best KT" will do it before i think about it a little more btw
On April 15 2016 19:33 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: TY will bop Zest. He's our last hope. But expect more changes to TvP. Some of those games are just...awful. I feel like TaeJa was always a step slower than he used to be and he was always playing from behind.
Hmm, TY has dropped a little in non TvT's tho. Only a Zest derp can stop him now
On April 15 2016 19:33 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: TY will bop Zest. He's our last hope. But expect more changes to TvP. Some of those games are just...awful. I feel like TaeJa was always a step slower than he used to be and he was always playing from behind.
Hmm, TY has dropped a little in non TvT's tho. Only a Zest derp can stop him now
On April 15 2016 19:33 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: TY will bop Zest. He's our last hope. But expect more changes to TvP. Some of those games are just...awful. I feel like TaeJa was always a step slower than he used to be and he was always playing from behind.
lol that would be a great finals, regardless of who ends up winning, I win.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Dear had storms until banelings blew up 8 high templars.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
On April 15 2016 20:06 Charoisaur wrote: It seems really hard to close out a game with ling bane so most games should go late-game if protoss is competent. Lurker styles seem to be better
people dont go lurkers cuz they eventually realized u cant win games vs immortal archon phoenix with them
On April 15 2016 20:06 Charoisaur wrote: It seems really hard to close out a game with ling bane so most games should go late-game if protoss is competent. Lurker styles seem to be better
Lurker styles seem to just get rolled over by the immortal based armies. At least in most games i've seen.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
On April 15 2016 20:06 Charoisaur wrote: It seems really hard to close out a game with ling bane so most games should go late-game if protoss is competent. Lurker styles seem to be better
Lurkers really don't do well if protoss decides to go 2 robo immortal.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
Dear level is getting 8 high templars blown up by banelings because they move commanded out of cloaking range. So I'm not sure.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
Swarmhost was changed.
With overseers you were indeed able to zone out cloaked HTs in HotS, that is no longer the case.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Well SH can zone out only units locusts see. SO there was a detection in range... not sure if I follow you... I just finished wonderful steak so maybe the blood is missing too much, but...
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Make swarm hosts great again ;(
I secretely hoped Blizz'd make them scourge launchers
On April 15 2016 20:15 Sonicsdota wrote: The other day on Reddit. Someone posted Losira's stats as he has like 50% winrate.
His luck had to run out sometime...
The other day on reddit someone posted that Protoss needs better defenses and it reached the top of the page. So much about the relevance of reddit posts.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Well SH can zone out only units locusts see. SO there was a detection in range... not sure if I follow you... I just finished wonderful steak so maybe the blood is missing too much, but...
well if you let the locusts next to your invisible templar than they will all die pretty much instantly if zerg sacs a few overseers
and there were also walls of spores so u had to be careful bout their detection too
On April 15 2016 20:15 Sonicsdota wrote: The other day on Reddit. Someone posted Losira's stats as he has like 50% winrate.
His luck had to run out sometime...
The other day on reddit someone posted that Protoss needs better defenses and it reached the top of the page. So much about the relevance of reddit posts.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Make swarm hosts great again ;(
I secretely hoped Blizz'd make them scourge launchers
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Well SH can zone out only units locusts see. SO there was a detection in range... not sure if I follow you... I just finished wonderful steak so maybe the blood is missing too much, but...
well if you let the locusts next to your invisible templar than they will all die pretty much instantly if zerg sacs a few overseers
Can't you then do the same think with kamikaze overseers and few vipers to abduct the MS in LotV? I saw pros hiding a drone army in "1 drone", so in theory it should be doable(and as we saw it was working in HotS). Is really SH that much needed?
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Make swarm hosts great again ;(
I secretely hoped Blizz'd make them scourge launchers
Penev stahp
Blizz should do something with them tho, and the other never used units as well
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Well SH can zone out only units locusts see. SO there was a detection in range... not sure if I follow you... I just finished wonderful steak so maybe the blood is missing too much, but...
well if you let the locusts next to your invisible templar than they will all die pretty much instantly if zerg sacs a few overseers
Can't you then do the same think with kamikaze overseers and few vipers to abduct the MS in LotV? I saw pros hiding a drone army in "1 drone", so in theory it should be doable(and as we saw it was working in HotS). Is really SH that much needed?
Well you would have to sacrifice ground units as well, like banelings for example, which have to take the role of the locusts to zone out hts. Might be possible, but very hard and expensive. So yes the SH was extremely needed vs Air/HT styles.
On April 15 2016 20:04 Grollicus wrote: Did they both forget their races have AOE spells? Losira builds no vipers vs mass air, Dear has no storm vs mass lings.. MEH
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Well SH can zone out only units locusts see. SO there was a detection in range... not sure if I follow you... I just finished wonderful steak so maybe the blood is missing too much, but...
well if you let the locusts next to your invisible templar than they will all die pretty much instantly if zerg sacs a few overseers
Can't you then do the same think with kamikaze overseers and few vipers to abduct the MS in LotV? I saw pros hiding a drone army in "1 drone", so in theory it should be doable(and as we saw it was working in HotS). Is really SH that much needed?
Well you would have to sacrifice ground units as well, like banelings for example, which have to take the role of the locusts to zone out hts. Might be possible, but very hard and expensive. So yes the SH was extremely needed vs Air/HT styles.
Vipers aren't so great vs tempests/ht tbh. Even if they don't get feedbacked, since the nerf the AOE does not do enough vs big air units.
Abduct on the mothership could have been nice, and parasitic bomb against the 10 voidrays.
Abduct on the mothership only happens on not-vs-Dear level I think, cloaked ht way outrange the vipers usually. And dear would stop building void rays and spread the ones he already had if he sees a lot of Vipers.
The abduct was nerfed compared to HotS? Because some games from HotS would like a talk with you, because some of the best P players lost their MS to an abduct.
Also overseers.
cuz swarm host zoned out hightemplar (thats why u would need them to win even if there were no ground unit but templar)
Well SH can zone out only units locusts see. SO there was a detection in range... not sure if I follow you... I just finished wonderful steak so maybe the blood is missing too much, but...
well if you let the locusts next to your invisible templar than they will all die pretty much instantly if zerg sacs a few overseers
Can't you then do the same think with kamikaze overseers and few vipers to abduct the MS in LotV? I saw pros hiding a drone army in "1 drone", so in theory it should be doable(and as we saw it was working in HotS). Is really SH that much needed?
Well you would have to sacrifice ground units as well, like banelings for example, which have to take the role of the locusts to zone out hts. Might be possible, but very hard and expensive. So yes the SH was extremely needed vs Air/HT styles.
On April 15 2016 20:28 Scarlett` wrote: welmu was right tho he used to do this opening every game on dusk on ladder
One of Stork's first LotV games was proxy 4-gate zealot on Dusk Towers against Solar.
i mean the proxy 3 gate zealot with fast gas/mothership at home and wall highground is only good on dusk/orbital cuz u get to take inbase natural behind it with nothing but a msc
On April 15 2016 20:35 Scarlett` wrote: and yea u can defend 1 spot if theres enough lurkers but it puts no pressure on protoss (and mass lurker becomes useless later on)
i used to do this right when ppl first starting going phoenix chargelot immortal when they were silly enough to amove in no matter what they saw :D
You just have to pray for stupid a-move attack without phoenix and not enough immortals.
On April 15 2016 20:35 Scarlett` wrote: and yea u can defend 1 spot if theres enough lurkers but it puts no pressure on protoss (and mass lurker becomes useless later on)
i used to do this right when ppl first starting going phoenix chargelot immortal when they were silly enough to amove in no matter what they saw :D
I copied that build, you had the perfect (defensive) Lurker timing figured out to defend the 3 base push.
On April 15 2016 20:34 Phredxor wrote: Scarlett was right, Dear doing his part to keep the nerf hammer away from Protoss
We don't nerf things in PvZ, we just wait 6 months until we're ready. Your move, ZvP.
Well, sometimes we nerf the most important zerg core units out of the blue and watch blink/sentry for the rest of the expansion. Anything can happen with David Kim.
On April 15 2016 20:34 Phredxor wrote: Scarlett was right, Dear doing his part to keep the nerf hammer away from Protoss
We don't nerf things in PvZ, we just wait 6 months until we're ready. Your move, ZvP.
Well, sometimes we nerf the most important zerg core units out of the blue and watch blink/sentry for the rest of the expansion. Anything can happen with David Kim.
On April 15 2016 20:43 Durnuu wrote: Ro8 was a stompfest and Ro4 will be 2 mirrors, and the worst ones at that Hopefully the final is good
hmm PvP is quite good these days, we're out of the disruptor vs disruptor roulette meta, and we'll have the 2 best PvP clashing, it really should be very good series.
For the other semi final, for some reason beyond my understanding people seem to enjoy tankivac vs tankivacs, so I'll just admit I'm too old and quit hoping they'll patch it. Hopefully TY will do it quick.
Hmm, I'm going to be in Japan for the semis and finals. Hopefully I can get some sweet wifi in my hotels so I can watch on my phone or something :s Depending on the time difference too
On April 15 2016 20:49 Phredxor wrote: Hmm, I'm going to be in Japan for the semis and finals. Hopefully I can get some sweet wifi in my hotels so I can watch on my phone or something :s Depending on the time difference too
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
The main reason why I've switched races...
What did you switch to and how has it been? Thinking about playing Terran because of zvz. It's just that TvT is also not as cool as it was from what I've seen.
On April 15 2016 20:49 Phredxor wrote: Hmm, I'm going to be in Japan for the semis and finals. Hopefully I can get some sweet wifi in my hotels so I can watch on my phone or something :s Depending on the time difference too
so close yet so far away
D:
I know
My silly missus doesn't have the love of SC2 that I have so Japan was chosen instead.
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
The main reason why I've switched races...
What did you switch to and how has it been? Thinking about playing Terran because of zvz. It's just that TvT is also not as cool as it was from what I've seen.
Yeah Terran. But I have a longtime history offracing Terran at near my zerg level (since late WoL), so it wasn't really a big step. It's more like I just don't play zerg anymore, instead of playing two races.
TvT is really bad by comparison to WoL and HotS. I used to be a Mech player in TvT and TvZ, so I'm not happy about how Terran plays these matchups these days, but it's still more fun than ZvZ and ZvP for me. The main thing you have to be aware if you switch to T these days is that you really need to get a mindset going that you shouldn't let your P/Z opponent's get lategame (you can let them get there, but you need to make it hard for them because it's the only way you will get there evenly - so try to kill them and work from there) and that keeping tanks in medivacs is more important than anything else in TvT. It's a very unstrategic race at the moment, but mechanically a lot of fun.
On April 15 2016 20:59 Big J wrote: The main thing you have to be aware if you switch to T these days is that you really need to get a mindset going that you shouldn't let your P/Z opponent's get lategame
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
I think I read some other zergs say this a few times in WoL and HotS too
well the later overlord scouting makes openings more random and it feels harder to gain an advantage in muta vs muta cuz u usually are 1 base ahead where you would be in hots/wol and its really easy to techswitch randomly into muta when ur playing roach vs roach (u die if they attack at certain point otherwise you're really ahead)
plus if someone gets ultras first they just kinda win (u can amove into mass lurker spine with ultra viper and crush it)
On April 15 2016 20:59 Big J wrote: The main thing you have to be aware if you switch to T these days is that you really need to get a mindset going that you shouldn't let your P/Z opponent's get lategame
Easier said than done, at least in TvP.
Yeah, it's not easy. I'm just saying this because from my zerg/Mech perspective - in which I learned to react to everything properly - this was the hardest step to get into bio play. Just the mindset of always having to and being able to attack. When you attack a lot you can learn from your replays and see where you were behind and where ahead and try to figure out the scenarios in which actually playing lategame is worth and when not. With Mech/Z(before SH nerf I guess) you'd usually just have a completely different mindset to begin with, only attack when the opponent opens up or you play cheesy.
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
The main reason why I've switched races...
What did you switch to and how has it been? Thinking about playing Terran because of zvz.
All mirrors are pretty harsh (especially on this map pool), not sure switching does anything. Not to mention you have to learn stuff first.
Every time I see someone make marauders in bio vs bio TvT I facepalm.
But at least you don't play TvT 80% of your ladder games
Seriously though, I'm in masters league and I see 80% Terran 19% Zerg and the occasional protoss. It's insane how many terrans and how few protosses I'm playing
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
The main reason why I've switched races...
What did you switch to and how has it been? Thinking about playing Terran because of zvz. It's just that TvT is also not as cool as it was from what I've seen.
Yeah Terran. But I have a longtime history offracing Terran at near my zerg level (since late WoL), so it wasn't really a big step. It's more like I just don't play zerg anymore, instead of playing two races.
TvT is really bad by comparison to WoL and HotS. I used to be a Mech player in TvT and TvZ, so I'm not happy about how Terran plays these matchups these days, but it's still more fun than ZvZ and ZvP for me. The main thing you have to be aware if you switch to T these days is that you really need to get a mindset going that you shouldn't let your P/Z opponent's get lategame (you can let them get there, but you need to make it hard for them because it's the only way you will get there evenly - so try to kill them and work from there) and that keeping tanks in medivacs is more important than anything else in TvT. It's a very unstrategic race at the moment, but mechanically a lot of fun.
Okay thanks, I'll just test the waters on NA first.
Oh cool, 2 mirror semis to lead to a guaranteed non mirror finals. I like this much better than the opposite. I'm hoping TY vs Zest. edit: also predicting that
Zerg got fucking rekt this season lol. I would prefer a zerg instead of Cure or Dream but apparently terran was too stronk. What the hell happened to Speed btw, wasn't he artosis' chosen?
I am still a devout follower of literal god TY but Zest doesn't look like he will lose
On April 15 2016 22:37 Isualin wrote: Zerg got fucking rekt this season lol. I would prefer a zerg instead of Cure or Dream but apparently terran was too stronk. What the hell happened to Speed btw, wasn't he artosis' chosen?
I am still a devout follower of literal god TY but Zest doesn't look like he will lose
The curse happened. Arty McTosis chosen the Terran prophet and the curse did what it's supposed to do
On April 15 2016 22:52 Nebuchad wrote: I think Dear might beat Zest honestly. And I think Zest vs TY finals is way too hyped to end up being any good
Well sure he might beat him. I think the 4 players left all are in the top5 of their races, probably even top 3. Zest is the huge favorite though i think, PvP always was his bets matchup and the game he lost to Dear was because of a huge derp. TY vs Zest would be a teamkill, these finals are usually kinda weird :/
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
I think I read some other zergs say this a few times in WoL and HotS too
plus if someone gets ultras first they just kinda win (u can amove into mass lurker spine with ultra viper and crush it)
I see Avilo regularly crushing mass ultra armies with lurker viper + static defense. Maybe you should learn something from him.
i dont think high master and progamer meta have much in common
Yup that is correct. Avilo's cute little turtle builds might work fine at lower level play, won't work at higher level play.
I don't even think it's the level of play. Avilo's play works because he has incredible mechanics, probably better than the mechanics of many foreign professionals. If you give him the units that could win a certain combat he will certainly win it against his Masters/GM opponents.
Though I also don't think that the "whoever gets ultras first wins" is true. E.g. Snute vs hydra (or was it violet) from the WCS Circuit.
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
I think I read some other zergs say this a few times in WoL and HotS too
plus if someone gets ultras first they just kinda win (u can amove into mass lurker spine with ultra viper and crush it)
I see Avilo regularly crushing mass ultra armies with lurker viper + static defense. Maybe you should learn something from him.
i dont think high master and progamer meta have much in common
Yup that is correct. Avilo's cute little turtle builds might work fine at lower level play, won't work at higher level play.
I don't even think it's the level of play. Avilo's play works because he has incredible mechanics, probably better than the mechanics of many foreign professionals. If you give him the units that could win a certain combat he will certainly win it against his Masters/GM opponents.
Though I also don't think that the "whoever gets ultras first wins" is true. E.g. Snute vs hydra (or was it violet) from the WCS Circuit.
Maybe. But we're talking about Scarlett here. Her mechanics have always been absolutely ON POINT. I think if she's not able to use Avilo's style against her opponents, it's not because Avilo has better mechanics.
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
I think I read some other zergs say this a few times in WoL and HotS too
plus if someone gets ultras first they just kinda win (u can amove into mass lurker spine with ultra viper and crush it)
I see Avilo regularly crushing mass ultra armies with lurker viper + static defense. Maybe you should learn something from him.
i dont think high master and progamer meta have much in common
Yup that is correct. Avilo's cute little turtle builds might work fine at lower level play, won't work at higher level play.
I don't even think it's the level of play. Avilo's play works because he has incredible mechanics, probably better than the mechanics of many foreign professionals. If you give him the units that could win a certain combat he will certainly win it against his Masters/GM opponents.
Though I also don't think that the "whoever gets ultras first wins" is true. E.g. Snute vs hydra (or was it violet) from the WCS Circuit.
Maybe. But we're talking about Scarlett here. Her mechanics have always been absolutely ON POINT. I think if she's not able to use Avilo's style against her opponents, it's not because Avilo has better mechanics.
Oh absolutely. My point was that avilo's style works because he is mechanically better, not because his style is good. His style is quite garbage besides the composition he ends up with. He takes massive disadvantages in economy and upgrades, which is why he loses all games against professional players that have similar mechanics.
On April 15 2016 20:47 Malgo wrote: to be honest, losira didnt deserved Ro8...dark shouldve advanced, but lots of Z in the group made it to gimmicky
zvz right now is probably the coinflippyest its ever been
I think I read some other zergs say this a few times in WoL and HotS too
plus if someone gets ultras first they just kinda win (u can amove into mass lurker spine with ultra viper and crush it)
I see Avilo regularly crushing mass ultra armies with lurker viper + static defense. Maybe you should learn something from him.
i dont think high master and progamer meta have much in common
Yup that is correct. Avilo's cute little turtle builds might work fine at lower level play, won't work at higher level play.
I don't even think it's the level of play. Avilo's play works because he has incredible mechanics, probably better than the mechanics of many foreign professionals. If you give him the units that could win a certain combat he will certainly win it against his Masters/GM opponents.
Though I also don't think that the "whoever gets ultras first wins" is true. E.g. Snute vs hydra (or was it violet) from the WCS Circuit.
Maybe. But we're talking about Scarlett here. Her mechanics have always been absolutely ON POINT. I think if she's not able to use Avilo's style against her opponents, it's not because Avilo has better mechanics.
Oh absolutely. My point was that avilo's style works because he is mechanically better, not because his style is good. His style is quite garbage besides the composition he ends up with. He takes massive disadvantages in economy and upgrades, which is why he loses all games against professional players that have similar mechanics.
Well this is fine and all, but back to the subject, Dark lost because he had 2 important proleague games and a SSL finals to prepare.
At one point, even with the biggest talent, going in 3 top competitions at once is just impossible; him being caught by Losira was not such and upset in that regard.
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Was always like that after some time of a new addon. At the beginning Terrans win a lot with similar to the previous games mechanics and some new abilities (like boost in hots) and after that they lose a lot (like 2nd half of 2013, all 2014 where Ts were basically wiped out of GSL by the toss). Since this will be the last addon we well see Terrans adapting over and over again to "new" styles of toss and Zerg. I am looking forward to checking the meta in a couple of years. Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Was always like that after some time of a new addon. At the beginning Terrans win a lot with similar to the previous games mechanics and some new abilities (like boost in hots) and after that they lose a lot (like 2nd half of 2013, all 2014 where Ts were basically wiped out of GSL by the toss). Since this will be the last addon we well see Terrans adapting over and over again to "new" styles of toss and Zerg. I am looking forward to checking the meta in a couple of years. Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
Perhaps you don't remember 2014 like Protoss remembers it, but the tournaments won and the second places were actually very close between T and P. In fact, throughout 2014/2015, the WCS circuits (GSL, SSL, WCS NA, EU) had very close winrates.
Early 2014, Protoss had a higher winrate versus Terran and then in the latter half, Terran had a 60/40 winrate versus Protoss.As for adapting....I'm not so sure, because it's seemed like all races have had to do their share of adapting. Terran never really adapted to the Blink-allins because the maps were chaned and WMs were buffed, whereas Protoss had to adapt for the widowmine buff without receiving any buffs and maps that were there for a long time.
I mean, it's really only Dear, herO, and Zest who are doing the best in the TvP matchup, so it's not like ALL Protoss are destroying ALL Terran.
I don't even understand how Zest was winning; I don't think he even used Storm or Disruptors. He really just sees the game better than every other Toss and it's not even close. This is the most dominant Toss I've seen ever, maybe MC early on with the warp gate all in timings was in the same universe, but even then.. the level of refinement is a lot higher and it's not just brute force anymore.
Love/hate Zest because he's probably holding back Toss buffs, but at the same time, he seems to be the platonic ideal of Protoss play.
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Was always like that after some time of a new addon. At the beginning Terrans win a lot with similar to the previous games mechanics and some new abilities (like boost in hots) and after that they lose a lot (like 2nd half of 2013, all 2014 where Ts were basically wiped out of GSL by the toss). Since this will be the last addon we well see Terrans adapting over and over again to "new" styles of toss and Zerg. I am looking forward to checking the meta in a couple of years. Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
Perhaps you don't remember 2014 like Protoss remembers it, but the tournaments won and the second places were actually very close between T and P. In fact, throughout 2014/2015, the WCS circuits (GSL, SSL, WCS NA, EU) had very close winrates.
Early 2014, Protoss had a higher winrate versus Terran and then in the latter half, Terran had a 60/40 winrate versus Protoss.As for adapting....I'm not so sure, because it's seemed like all races have had to do their share of adapting. Terran never really adapted to the Blink-allins because the maps were chaned and WMs were buffed, whereas Protoss had to adapt for the widowmine buff without receiving any buffs and maps that were there for a long time.
I mean, it's really only Dear, herO, and Zest who are doing the best in the TvP matchup, so it's not like ALL Protoss are destroying ALL Terran.
You do realize the first 6 months of 2014 were pure Protoss domination though right? It wasnt even funny anymore. Until June there were like two Terrans doing ok. And only one won tournaments (Taeja in foreign events). The first season was all about trying to hold Blink all ins and guess what. A well executed one on those stupid maps was near impossible to hold. It wasnt because Terran had a hard time adapting. It was because the Blink all in was too strong. In fact so strong that they nerfed and changed multiple things around that. One of those changes being the maps and the msc vision. Protoss had a dry phase through summer but it wasnt as bad as the time Terrans had. Only starting with September TvP/PvT started to normalize
As for the GSL games. As much as it hurts me to see Taeja lose it was expected. Zest is just too much of a monster atm and I honestly don´t see anyone stopping him from winning this GSL tbh. And I dont even like this guy..
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
This is not true in LotV. Depending on the composition, Protoss can be more mechanically demanding than Terran bio play. Look for example Puck's and Neeb's signature PvT style (Blink Stalkers and Disruptors). This unit composition is pure hell to control. But if you have the godly skill to blink out those wounded Stalkers while landing good Disruptor Novas this unit comp looks quite imba indeed. However not even Neeb can land Novas consistently, even though he is touted by many to be the best NA player even including Koreans who live in NA at the moment.
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Was always like that after some time of a new addon. At the beginning Terrans win a lot with similar to the previous games mechanics and some new abilities (like boost in hots) and after that they lose a lot (like 2nd half of 2013, all 2014 where Ts were basically wiped out of GSL by the toss). Since this will be the last addon we well see Terrans adapting over and over again to "new" styles of toss and Zerg. I am looking forward to checking the meta in a couple of years. Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
Perhaps you don't remember 2014 like Protoss remembers it, but the tournaments won and the second places were actually very close between T and P. In fact, throughout 2014/2015, the WCS circuits (GSL, SSL, WCS NA, EU) had very close winrates.
Early 2014, Protoss had a higher winrate versus Terran and then in the latter half, Terran had a 60/40 winrate versus Protoss.As for adapting....I'm not so sure, because it's seemed like all races have had to do their share of adapting. Terran never really adapted to the Blink-allins because the maps were chaned and WMs were buffed, whereas Protoss had to adapt for the widowmine buff without receiving any buffs and maps that were there for a long time.
I mean, it's really only Dear, herO, and Zest who are doing the best in the TvP matchup, so it's not like ALL Protoss are destroying ALL Terran.
You do realize the first 6 months of 2014 were pure Protoss domination though right? It wasnt even funny anymore. Until June there were like two Terrans doing ok. And only one won tournaments (Taeja in foreign events). The first season was all about trying to hold Blink all ins and guess what. A well executed one on those stupid maps was near impossible to hold. It wasnt because Terran had a hard time adapting. It was because the Blink all in was too strong. In fact so strong that they nerfed and changed multiple things around that. One of those changes being the maps and the msc vision. Protoss had a dry phase through summer but it wasnt as bad as the time Terrans had. Only starting with September TvP/PvT started to normalize
As for the GSL games. As much as it hurts me to see Taeja lose it was expected. Zest is just too much of a monster atm and I honestly don´t see anyone stopping him from winning this GSL tbh. And I dont even like this guy..
That is true. Protoss dominated, and I disagree that the blink all in was unholdable because Polt demonstrated how it was holdable though it was also imbalanced.
But, think logically, if the first half was domination and the tournament wins were around equal, what does that mean? It means that Terran dominated Protoss hard enough to get a similar amount of tournament wins.
If the nerfs/buffs were supposed to equalize the balance, then Protoss should have had a similar number of tournament wins to Terran or at least more than they did.
Protoss had 15 wins and Terran had 12, and they had relatively equal amounts of mirror matchups in the finals. All I'm saying is that 2014 can not be said to be Protoss dominated. They did well in one half, but extremely poorly on the other.
And for GSL, it was definitely painful seeing him get dominated so hard. And especially with this wonky (and some might say weak) Ro8, I think TY has the best chance of beating Zest, maybe even a good chance because team kills are never certain.
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Was always like that after some time of a new addon. At the beginning Terrans win a lot with similar to the previous games mechanics and some new abilities (like boost in hots) and after that they lose a lot (like 2nd half of 2013, all 2014 where Ts were basically wiped out of GSL by the toss). Since this will be the last addon we well see Terrans adapting over and over again to "new" styles of toss and Zerg. I am looking forward to checking the meta in a couple of years. Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
Perhaps you don't remember 2014 like Protoss remembers it, but the tournaments won and the second places were actually very close between T and P. In fact, throughout 2014/2015, the WCS circuits (GSL, SSL, WCS NA, EU) had very close winrates.
Early 2014, Protoss had a higher winrate versus Terran and then in the latter half, Terran had a 60/40 winrate versus Protoss.As for adapting....I'm not so sure, because it's seemed like all races have had to do their share of adapting. Terran never really adapted to the Blink-allins because the maps were chaned and WMs were buffed, whereas Protoss had to adapt for the widowmine buff without receiving any buffs and maps that were there for a long time.
I mean, it's really only Dear, herO, and Zest who are doing the best in the TvP matchup, so it's not like ALL Protoss are destroying ALL Terran.
You do realize the first 6 months of 2014 were pure Protoss domination though right? It wasnt even funny anymore. Until June there were like two Terrans doing ok. And only one won tournaments (Taeja in foreign events). The first season was all about trying to hold Blink all ins and guess what. A well executed one on those stupid maps was near impossible to hold. It wasnt because Terran had a hard time adapting. It was because the Blink all in was too strong. In fact so strong that they nerfed and changed multiple things around that. One of those changes being the maps and the msc vision. Protoss had a dry phase through summer but it wasnt as bad as the time Terrans had. Only starting with September TvP/PvT started to normalize
As for the GSL games. As much as it hurts me to see Taeja lose it was expected. Zest is just too much of a monster atm and I honestly don´t see anyone stopping him from winning this GSL tbh. And I dont even like this guy..
That is true. Protoss dominated, and I disagree that the blink all in was unholdable because Polt demonstrated how it was holdable though it was also imbalanced.
But, think logically, if the first half was domination and the tournament wins were around equal, what does that mean? It means that Terran dominated Protoss hard enough to get a similar amount of tournament wins.
If the nerfs/buffs were supposed to equalize the balance, then Protoss should have had a similar number of tournament wins to Terran or at least more than they did.
Protoss had 15 wins and Terran had 12, and they had relatively equal amounts of mirror matchups in the finals. All I'm saying is that 2014 can not be said to be Protoss dominated. They did well in one half, but extremely poorly on the other.
And for GSL, it was definitely painful seeing him get dominated so hard. And especially with this wonky (and some might say weak) Ro8, I think TY has the best chance of beating Zest, maybe even a good chance because team kills are never certain.
I am not saying that all of 2014 was Protoss domination but until July we had 11 Protoss Tournament wins and only Zest had won 2. The other 9 were all different players winning premier Tournaments. Compared to that we had Life and Hyun win each one Premier Tournament and for Terran Taeja winning 2. Starting July after the buffs Terrans started winning nearly everything until September where from there on things even´d out again with 3 Zergs winning 3 Protoss and 2 Terrans. All in all Zergs had it the worst and only started gaining steam after realizing how to completely abuse the SH´s. Terrans got a boost after the Thor and Widow Mine buffs till the other races adapted. 2015 started okayish to bad for Terran and the same for Protoss. Protoss pretty much won more than 50% of the Tournaments. So Protoss actually had a really good time in HotS.^^
So far in Legacy I don´t think we can say one race is stronger than the others. People are still discovering new strategies and Zest is showing how to beat Terrans without even needing high tech splash. Season 2 of GSL and SSL will be interesting to watch.
Anyone else think that the Artosis and wolf were particularly on point today? TBH Wolf has been getting on my nerves recently with his overly critical analysis and I guess just the high ratio of opinions/observations he has, but today his analysis was good and completed artosis' very nicely.
Artosis himself was on fire analytically, rewound the vods a few times to catch what he was saying. good stuff especially as a way to understand why zest won so one-sidedly
On April 15 2016 18:57 fealx wrote: TvP looks very weird atm. Even Maru is only winning because Tosses are throwing.
Was always like that after some time of a new addon. At the beginning Terrans win a lot with similar to the previous games mechanics and some new abilities (like boost in hots) and after that they lose a lot (like 2nd half of 2013, all 2014 where Ts were basically wiped out of GSL by the toss). Since this will be the last addon we well see Terrans adapting over and over again to "new" styles of toss and Zerg. I am looking forward to checking the meta in a couple of years. Although from a terran perspective it will always fell frustrating to watch, simply because it is more mechanic work to achieve a victory compared to other races (which have work on another level (macro, decision making, ability using). But with all the splitting, microing, macroing, walling off/sim city, planning ahead (instead of playing reactive), terran always felt harder to play when watching
Perhaps you don't remember 2014 like Protoss remembers it, but the tournaments won and the second places were actually very close between T and P. In fact, throughout 2014/2015, the WCS circuits (GSL, SSL, WCS NA, EU) had very close winrates.
Early 2014, Protoss had a higher winrate versus Terran and then in the latter half, Terran had a 60/40 winrate versus Protoss.As for adapting....I'm not so sure, because it's seemed like all races have had to do their share of adapting. Terran never really adapted to the Blink-allins because the maps were chaned and WMs were buffed, whereas Protoss had to adapt for the widowmine buff without receiving any buffs and maps that were there for a long time.
I mean, it's really only Dear, herO, and Zest who are doing the best in the TvP matchup, so it's not like ALL Protoss are destroying ALL Terran.
You do realize the first 6 months of 2014 were pure Protoss domination though right? It wasnt even funny anymore. Until June there were like two Terrans doing ok. And only one won tournaments (Taeja in foreign events). The first season was all about trying to hold Blink all ins and guess what. A well executed one on those stupid maps was near impossible to hold. It wasnt because Terran had a hard time adapting. It was because the Blink all in was too strong. In fact so strong that they nerfed and changed multiple things around that. One of those changes being the maps and the msc vision. Protoss had a dry phase through summer but it wasnt as bad as the time Terrans had. Only starting with September TvP/PvT started to normalize
As for the GSL games. As much as it hurts me to see Taeja lose it was expected. Zest is just too much of a monster atm and I honestly don´t see anyone stopping him from winning this GSL tbh. And I dont even like this guy..
That is true. Protoss dominated, and I disagree that the blink all in was unholdable because Polt demonstrated how it was holdable though it was also imbalanced.
But, think logically, if the first half was domination and the tournament wins were around equal, what does that mean? It means that Terran dominated Protoss hard enough to get a similar amount of tournament wins.
If the nerfs/buffs were supposed to equalize the balance, then Protoss should have had a similar number of tournament wins to Terran or at least more than they did.
Protoss had 15 wins and Terran had 12, and they had relatively equal amounts of mirror matchups in the finals. All I'm saying is that 2014 can not be said to be Protoss dominated. They did well in one half, but extremely poorly on the other.
And for GSL, it was definitely painful seeing him get dominated so hard. And especially with this wonky (and some might say weak) Ro8, I think TY has the best chance of beating Zest, maybe even a good chance because team kills are never certain.
I am not saying that all of 2014 was Protoss domination but until July we had 11 Protoss Tournament wins and only Zest had won 2. The other 9 were all different players winning premier Tournaments. Compared to that we had Life and Hyun win each one Premier Tournament and for Terran Taeja winning 2. Starting July after the buffs Terrans started winning nearly everything until September where from there on things even´d out again with 3 Zergs winning 3 Protoss and 2 Terrans. All in all Zergs had it the worst and only started gaining steam after realizing how to completely abuse the SH´s. Terrans got a boost after the Thor and Widow Mine buffs till the other races adapted. 2015 started okayish to bad for Terran and the same for Protoss. Protoss pretty much won more than 50% of the Tournaments. So Protoss actually had a really good time in HotS.^^
So far in Legacy I don´t think we can say one race is stronger than the others. People are still discovering new strategies and Zest is showing how to beat Terrans without even needing high tech splash. Season 2 of GSL and SSL will be interesting to watch.
Well on that point I don't disagree, 2014-2015 Protoss by far had the most tournament wins.
I think Artosis was correct in that the way to beat Protoss (and Zest by extension) is in the late game. If you can get the point of mass liberators/ghosts, then it is difficult for Protoss without Tempest to beat. And even with Tempest it gets into a a swarmhost-like game where the Protoss has to chip away at the Terran.
Well, like you said, the beginning of the year has is generally where the game is at its most imbalanced...aside from certain metas, and I think a lot of players got into Code S that may not other otherwise, but also a lot of players who did not do as well in the past (at least in GSL) are doing really well, so it's really wonky.
On April 20 2016 03:41 usopsama wrote: Oh nice. Taeja is 0-5 against Zest in this season of GSL.
Were any of the 5 games close?
Not really. Taeja got destroyed every single game. The last game they played was probably the closest due to Zest making a creditable attempt at throwing.
EPT
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AfreecaTV Korea | 
TwitchTV | 
O'Gaming TV![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CMU99oi.png)
Tasteless | ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2EGwEAn.png)
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TaeJa vs 
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Losira vs ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jgmCp.png)
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