EPT"We're going to have a small showmatch day with some maps we saw and liked
"OMG HOW COULD YOU NOT CONSULT THE MAPMAKING COMMUNITY!?"
Fucking A
Luck Fadder Maps - Community Maps Showmatches - Page 3
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
"We're going to have a small showmatch day with some maps we saw and liked "OMG HOW COULD YOU NOT CONSULT THE MAPMAKING COMMUNITY!?" Fucking A | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 09 2016 18:39 LongShot27 wrote: This community sickens me. "We're going to have a small showmatch day with some maps we saw and liked "OMG HOW COULD YOU NOT CONSULT THE MAPMAKING COMMUNITY!?" Fucking A I think you're being very unfair here ; literally only one person reacted as you describe it. Everyone else agrees that it is a very nice initiative ; and then, for future tournaments/showmatches of the same kind, the community divides between those who think PengWin, as the tournament organizer, can chose whichever maps he pleases, and those who think that it is necessary for the greater good to consult the mapmaking community. | ||
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
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TheoMikkelsen
Denmark196 Posts
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PengWin_SC
Switzerland433 Posts
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Hoofit
United Kingdom128 Posts
On February 09 2016 19:26 OtherWorld wrote: I think you're being very unfair here ; literally only one person reacted as you describe it. Everyone else agrees that it is a very nice initiative ; and then, for future tournaments/showmatches of the same kind, the community divides between those who think PengWin, as the tournament organizer, can chose whichever maps he pleases, and those who think that it is necessary for the greater good to consult the mapmaking community. Quoted for greatness. I think this is a case of where the community is positive about pengwin's iniative and is behind him, bar one person. Looking forward to it  | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
The goal has never be set to 'find the best map or map style ever.', not even 'one of the best'. Sure this initiative can give other great ideas, but this does not remove anything from it. Good move Pengwin! | ||
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PengWin_SC
Switzerland433 Posts
On February 09 2016 23:06 AbouSV wrote: Pengwin only wrote 'what better time to test some new maps?' and 'pretty much just based on maps I've seen recently and liked / had a hand in testing.' The goal has never be set to 'find the best map or map style ever.', not even 'one of the best'. Sure this initiative can give other great ideas, but this does not remove anything from it. Good move Pengwin! I never said the goal was to find the best map ever, nor did I say it was to find the best map style ever. This will be a first test in competitive play for all but Detox in this pool. It is also showcasing some community maps. I'm sick of explaining over and over. The drama that people from the mapmaking community are trying to create is seriously ridiculous. I've also explained (this will be the fourth time) that I have plans to open submissions if I do another one, but I came up with this idea three days ago which is obviously not enough time to vett a bunch of submissions. I'm actually astonished by how negative the reaction has been from the mapmaking community. Nobody is doing anything for the mapmaking community. I decide to test a new format with maps that I know have had a generally favorable response from some high level players, talk about opening it in the future for submissions and still the salt pours in from all sides. No wonder people don't want to work with the community mapmakers if this is how they act. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Anyways, I love the idea behind the tourney, just don't rub salt into wounds by essentially marketing other mapmakers maps and proclaiming to other mapmakers that it's easy to market maps, when you are the person who have chosen which maps to publicise. | ||
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PengWin_SC
Switzerland433 Posts
On February 09 2016 23:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It's more of the offhand comment from pengwin that apparently all it takes for a mapmaker to get noticed is to just post your map on reddit and it is easy to get noticed. Obviously, that isn't true and rather insulting when you think about it. Literally the only reason I noticed Avex and Kantuva's maps were because they were on reddit. Rifkin told me the exact same thing. Rifkin also mentioned that he has only ever been approached by the mapping community outside Avex one time to use a map, which he turned down. He also turned down numerous maps of Avex's before he liked one enough to use it. Persistence works. I searched for map posts on reddit made in 2016, and the only person not on this list that I found was Meavis, whose maps got buried and not particualarly upvoted. Maybe it's hard to get your work noticed, but you know what makes it a hell of a lot harder? Not trying. Nobody I've spoken to has been approached by mapmakers trying to get them used. Nobody has been approached by them looking for testers. Nobody has seen them being posted outside TL. People simply aren't trying. If a map is good, post it somewhere and it will get a positive reception. Maybe you get unlucky and it doesn't get used anyway, but a surefire way for your maps to not get used is to not push them at all. For reference: Edit: Clarification | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
On February 09 2016 23:15 PengWin_SC wrote: I never said the goal was to find the best map ever, nor did I say it was to find the best map style ever. This will be a first test in competitive play for all but Detox in this pool. It is also showcasing some community maps. I'm sick of explaining over and over. The drama that people from the mapmaking community are trying to create is seriously ridiculous. I've also explained (this will be the fourth time) that I have plans to open submissions if I do another one, but I came up with this idea three days ago which is obviously not enough time to vett a bunch of submissions. I'm actually astonished by how negative the reaction has been from the mapmaking community. Nobody is doing anything for the mapmaking community. I decide to test a new format with maps that I know have had a generally favorable response from some high level players, talk about opening it in the future for submissions and still the salt pours in from all sides. No wonder people don't want to work with the community mapmakers if this is how they act. I believe my post was not clear, but I do take your point 100% on this and greatly support it! | ||
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PengWin_SC
Switzerland433 Posts
On February 09 2016 23:47 AbouSV wrote: I believe my post was not clear, but I do take your point 100% on this and greatly support it! Sorry, there's just been so much salt that I assumed the "good move PengWin" was sarcastic hah... I appreciate the support <3 | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On February 09 2016 23:25 PengWin_SC wrote: + Show Spoiler + Literally the only reason I noticed Avex and Kantuva's maps were because they were on reddit. Rifkin told me the exact same thing. Rifkin also mentioned that he has only ever been approached by the mapping community outside Avex one time to use a map, which he turned down. He also turned down numerous maps of Avex's before he liked one enough to use it. Persistence works. I searched for map posts on reddit made in 2016, and the only person not on this list that I found was Meavis, whose maps got buried and not particualarly upvoted. Maybe it's hard to get your work noticed, but you know what makes it a hell of a lot harder? Not trying. Nobody I've spoken to has been approached by mapmakers trying to get them used. Nobody has been approached by them looking for testers. Nobody has seen them being posted outside TL. People simply aren't trying. If a map is good, post it somewhere and it will get a positive reception. Maybe you get unlucky and it doesn't get used anyway, but a surefire way for your maps to not get used is to not push them at all. For reference: https://twitter.com/Sc2DiaBoLuS/status/697063407539920896 Edit: Clarification I'd say ignore some of these guys as there are plenty of mapmakers that honestly do expect to have things handed to them. I for one, am happy to see more tournaments use community maps because as a mapper that's really all you want, to have other people play your maps so you can get more feedback so you can hopefully edit those maps to make them better and hopefully repeat the process. Avex especially is one of the "newer" (although not technically new here) bloods so I'm glad he's getting some publicity because he does try hard and does post a lot of his work. As for me, I use to post my maps on reddit quite a bit, but I've also been doing it since sc2 came out, so ~ 6 years ago and in those 6 years my four most successful maps have come from map contests I've entered on TL/Reddit, not because I've posted maps here or there or anywhere. So, now a day, I pretty much just sit around quietly, waiting for that Blizzard map contest / TLMC that happens pretty rarely and then I'll start mapping something new. Hope to see multiple more tournaments in the future, I'd love to submit something next time but /shrug, either way I'm happy to see something new and somebody who actually gives a shit and is trying something different. Thanks Pengwin! Games start soon, I'll be watching. =) | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
On February 09 2016 23:49 PengWin_SC wrote: Sorry, there's just been so much salt that I assumed the "good move PengWin" was sarcastic hah... I appreciate the support <3 No worry, that's quite understandable with the general tone indeed | ||
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Xenotolerance
United States464 Posts
Last year I posted Cassiopeia on reddit, got on the frontpage of r/starcraft for a day or two. It was pretty cool, but it didn't get noticed by tournament organizers because I didn't follow up at all. I also sent one PM once to BTTV about maps with no response, but again I did not follow up. I figure they get a shitload of messages and mine got lost in the noise. That's one reddit post, and one PM on teamliquid. If I were looking for a job, and I had posted one resume and sent one email, I would be unemployed. Incidentally, I have no recognition and no maps being used anywhere. If I had done this ten times over, maybe I could say I was trying. That's just to say, it's about networking and being aggressive, following up, taking action. Avex has done with basically every map he's come out with, and chanman and PengWin and BTTV know him by name. I did not do that, and I'm only known in the TL map forum, and then as a rarely appearing unknown. Just making a good map and putting up a thread on reddit is not enough, and saying 'put it on reddit' is missing the key element of shoving it in people's faces, but in an attractive way. You don't put a resume on the boss's desk, you put in their hands. You don't call a potential client once and leave a message, you call every day until they answer. And just like in real life, it's not about being the best, it's about who knows you. If you want recognition for your maps, you have to work for it outside the editor just as hard as you do inside of it. If you're thinking that the best maps win TLMC and go to ladder, therefore it is actually about being the best, I would like to remind you about all the excellent maps that were not chosen as finalists, and also about CJ Biome. That PengWin is putting on an event with no ladder maps is great for everyone, as it's creating any visibility at all for non-ladder maps, and hopefully creating interest in making more events like it that use only non-ladder maps. That's good for me, it's good for Avex, it's good for Meavis. Let's move forward. | ||
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ossavi09
Germany441 Posts
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Topin
Peru10099 Posts
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joshie0808
Canada1024 Posts
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