EPTOn February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl
what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl
SH/Viper will be new BLfestor
Balance Test Map Extension Showmatches - Page 6
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
SH/Viper will be new BLfestor | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote: what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote: i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:33 [PkF] Wire wrote: What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think. But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote: fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. Skin colour? | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:35 Ramiz1989 wrote: But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small. not to mention that half of the time they're complete deadweight since tyhe locusts died and you gotta wait. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Edit: and obviously adjust the game to stay fair  | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:37 Big J wrote: yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game? rip late game zvp | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:35 Ramiz1989 wrote: But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small. The games I saw were very long with a lot of static d. Don't get me wrong the idea is fine, but I think the numbers still need to be tweaked for the SH to work as intended. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:37 Big J wrote: yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game? Remove tempest too and the game becomes good again. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote: fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. because people only remember the roach max and don't remember that stephano was the first to use creep spread and a spine wall to tech safely and quickly to infestor/bl | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
More like eye shape. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:39 [PkF] Wire wrote: The games I saw were very long with a lot of static d. Don't get me wrong the idea is fine, but I think the numbers still need to be tweaked for the SH to work as intended. They were long, but it wasn't because one player was turtling, both players had great defense in those games. Games were overall quite active for Mech and Swarm Hosts games. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:42 Ramiz1989 wrote: They were long, but it wasn't because one player was turtling, both players had great defense in those games. Games were overall quite active for Mech and Swarm Hosts games. Which is saying close to nothing. Everything you can think of and that is not dead is more active than a current mech and SH game. This is an improvement, but I don't think we're there yet. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:37 Big J wrote: yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game? Edit: and obviously adjust the game to stay fair I think the raven is a really good unit very poorly implemented, also WoL raven was the shit, raven/viking/thor/tank/MMM vs bl/infestor/ling/bane/muta was actually epic, it would've been better if the infestor wasn't ao stupidly strong. Also whats with blizzard terran spellcasters, 1 is stuck in one MU and the other in a stupid turtle style, can't we have a caster that makes sense please? | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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ArgusDreamer
Canada63 Posts
Same shit about tempest. I believe blizzard will ninja buff carrier/overhaul it again and get rid of the + massive damage for tempest vs air. Maybe add it too vs ground massive ? like a long range slow banshee high hit points. For example(not a suggestion just example) if the carrier gained + 2 damage per interceptor air upgrade you'd see them in 30-60% of games. Right now you occasionally see a tempest in mid/lategame or in the 1 base proxy tempest vs terran. Other than that u never see either the tempest or carrier. As for SH, the unit already got nerfed to the ground with the gas cost being double. Anyone who thinks they will function like how they used to needs to go back to gaming school and learn what "30sec cooldowns" actually means. Also did they reduce the cost of the SH minerals cost? to 100/200 now as in flipped it ? Or is it 200/200 lol. I think the SH might be a very fun addition to the game with these changes, i just hope people don't cry too over nerf the SH and we'll be stuck with corruptor brood queen viper infestor again. If you don't like BL/Infestor than atleast be respectful of the SH in none hypocritical ways. The past will not happen over again if you don't over judge units that are allowed to have a different synergy, ergo SH/queen/viper those kind of units. Honestly the bias is so big in sc2 most of the time between players/streamers/casters/casuals. Especially casuals lol, or those who consider them to be at the forefront of balance when infact they stopped playing and became a casual recently/while back. Not implying we can't discuss balance, quite the opposite of that. But don't let it get to your head and continue thinking: "uuuugh remove sh ! remove this remove that" Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent. Just my 2 cents on the matter. *edit and by mathematical reason i mean, come up with changes to other units if you are in fact still desperate to remove the SH for the better" this better be good lol | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:59 teslar wrote: Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent. I don't think it's possible to do so, but can I be vocal about it if I think the tempest overlaps with the carrier and is very poor design wise (restricts the other player, is boring) and that the SH free unit mechanic is not great ? I stand to my point, I think Blizzard is bound to those units that don't fill any real role and aren't well designed and that it was plague the game until the end because Blizzard is just too stubborn to remove something that isn't beneficial for the game. Add bandaids over bandaids, that's their idea, but they're just putting nice clothes and make up on a dead body : in the end, it will still stink. | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:59 teslar wrote: I'm suprised some few people still think the SH is too strong or needs to be removed entirely. Same shit about tempest. I believe blizzard will ninja buff carrier/overhaul it again and get rid of the + massive damage for tempest vs air. Maybe add it too vs ground massive ? like a long range slow banshee high hit points. For example(not a suggestion just example) if the carrier gained + 2 damage per interceptor air upgrade you'd see them in 30-60% of games. Right now you occasionally see a tempest in mid/lategame or in the 1 base proxy tempest vs terran. Other than that u never see either the tempest or carrier. As for SH, the unit already got nerfed to the ground with the gas cost being double. Anyone who thinks they will function like how they used to needs to go back to gaming school and learn what "30sec cooldowns" actually means. Also did they reduce the cost of the SH minerals cost? to 100/200 now as in flipped it ? Or is it 200/200 lol. I think the SH might be a very fun addition to the game with these changes, i just hope people don't cry too over nerf the SH and we'll be stuck with corruptor brood queen viper infestor again. If you don't like BL/Infestor than atleast be respectful of the SH in none hypocritical ways. The past will not happen over again if you don't over judge units that are allowed to have a different synergy, ergo SH/queen/viper those kind of units. Honestly the bias is so big in sc2 most of the time between players/streamers/casters/casuals. Especially casuals lol, or those who consider them to be at the forefront of balance when infact they stopped playing and became a casual recently/while back. Not implying we can't discuss balance, quite the opposite of that. But don't let it get to your head and continue thinking: "uuuugh remove sh ! remove this remove that" Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent. Just my 2 cents on the matter. Mathematical reason? Here it goes: We saw Snute play with Swarm Hosts in 5games, 2 vs Goody and 3vs Harstem. In his 40min SH games he lost like 10Swarm Hosts while taking down like 30-40 Tanks/Thors with them. This doesn't mean the unit is imbalanced, but I think it is bad for the entertainment. Units that are massively disproportional in taking down other units over a long course of time make for boring gameplay. Because the best way to use them is to never ever risk those units and - since they are hard to catch or engage into - the best way to play against them is to avoid them. It makes for a metagame in which you don't want to engage directly as the player playing against Swarm Hosts and you can't engage directly as the player playing with them because they aren't good for single engagments. TLDR: units that enforce dodging engagments are bad and units with overly long range do that. The free unit dynamic makes this even worse. | ||
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