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Mondays! Who the **** likes Mondays? Well, you will love the next one for sure! Why? Because
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/a/ab/Picon_small.png) Yoan 'ToD' Merlo will host some very interesting showmatches for you.
To add something special and to bring the games to the next level, every single map will be played on the Balance Test Map Extension. Players were told as well to try the new changes.
Date, Format, Cash & Players
On this next Monday, February 16th, all three showmathes will be played out in a Best-Of-3 format. The winner of every showmatch can decide how the $100 for the match will be split between him and the loser.
Showmatch 1: Jens 'Snute' Aasgaard vs. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/9/9d/Ticon_small.png) Sascha 'GoOdy' Lupp
Poll: Who will win, Snute or GoOdy?Snute (62) 73% GoOdy (23) 27% 85 total votes Your vote: Who will win, Snute or GoOdy? (Vote): Snute
(Vote): GoOdy
Showmatch 2: Jens 'Snute' Aasgaard vs. Kevin 'Harstem' de Koning
Poll: Snute or Harstem, who is going to be the victor?Snute (51) 81% Harstem (12) 19% 63 total votes Your vote: Snute or Harstem, who is going to be the victor? (Vote): Snute
(Vote): Harstem
Showmatch 3: Ko Seok 'HyuN' Hyun vs. Kim Young 'SuperNova' Jin
Poll: HyuN or SuperNova?HyuN (30) 50% SuperNova? (30) 50% 60 total votes Your vote: HyuN or SuperNova? (Vote): HyuN
(Vote): SuperNova?
Time, Casters & Stream
Alongside ToD, Kevin 'RotterdaM' van der Kooi will join the fun and both will, yet again, transform into the mighty ToDterdaM to provide the best coverage possible.
The showmatches will start in 0m 0s, which is 18:00 CET or 09:00 PST.
The show is going to be streamed live on RotterdaM's Twitch channel, which is linked below. The language of the cast will, of course, be English.
Social Media
To support the players and casters, please make sure to follow them on Twitter and of course, cheer for them.
Sponsor
All three showmatches are sponsored by @xtornzvt - big thanks to him. Please, check him out on Twitter thank him as well for sponsoring the games.
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Aha gotta love how they chose Snute vs Goody to make sure there will be many Swarmhosts d:
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Snute vs Goody is the perfect match to test the changes lol
Also SuperNova is one of the koreans with the best lategame mech
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strange to give all the money to the winner. it encourages players to use what they're familiar with instead of trying the new swarmhosts.
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Excellent content, can't wait to watch this  .
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On February 13 2015 02:47 woopr wrote:
strange to give all the money to the winner. it encourages players to use what they're familiar with instead of trying the new swarmhosts.
Sorry for that, was kinda my fault, it's not that way. The money will be split between the winner and the loser (winner decides the split). :-)
Best regards
TrAiDoS
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This first game of Snute against GoOdy is awesome! :D
Snute still is figuring out how to use new Swarm Hosts, but it is Mech against Swarm Host game and there is no turtling, lol.
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just tuning in, it seems like SHs are still used in the old way....? -.-
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On February 17 2015 02:37 stevorino wrote:
just tuning in, it seems like SHs are still used in the old way....? -.-
as Demuslim said, it went from being impossible to move against wave after wave of locusts to having a mobile battle with one deadly wave of locusts once in a while.
And Snute's using infestors and vipers to support the locusts every wave since you have to make every wave count now.
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frankly i dont see a difference, they seem to spawn all the time. how long is the locust spawn timer?
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On February 17 2015 02:37 stevorino wrote:
just tuning in, it seems like SHs are still used in the old way....? -.-
It is first game, and I don't think he is using them exactly the same way they were used before... He was aggressive with SHs when he had the chance to be, defended when he had to. He also positioned his Swarm Hosts to make a huge arc of flying Locusts so they won't be killed by Thors and having flanks against Tanks. He also needs to support his Swarm Hosts and is constantly moving them around, they are not shoot and forget kind of unit anymore.
He was also attacking Terran base from "dead space".
HOLY SHIT WHAT AN ENGAGEMENT BY SNUTE. :O
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On February 17 2015 02:45 stevorino wrote:
frankly i dont see a difference, they seem to spawn all the time. how long is the locust spawn timer?
Nah, he just has 30 of them, and is using like half of them or something like that. They last for 30 seconds now, cooldown is 60 seconds, which is huge timing window.
And I don't know how you aren't seeing the difference when GoOdy is the one that is aggressive the whole game, that wasn't happening in any TvZ mech game before....
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flying locusts will get old so fast
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On February 17 2015 02:49 Heinsenzerg wrote:
flying locusts will get old so fast
What does this even mean? ROFL
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On February 17 2015 02:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:49 Heinsenzerg wrote:
flying locusts will get old so fast What does this even mean? ROFL
it means what it means
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On February 17 2015 02:52 Heinsenzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 17 2015 02:49 Heinsenzerg wrote:
flying locusts will get old so fast What does this even mean? ROFL it means what it means
No, it doesn't mean anything.
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lol TLO spotted in twitch chat
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it means they will get boring as fast as regular SH
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This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change.
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On February 17 2015 02:53 Heinsenzerg wrote:
it means they will get boring as fast as regular SH
That is just your opinion, some people say that mech is boring as fuck and just as much as Swarm Hosts, some people enjoy playing mech.
I definitely see the difference between this and any other Mech vs Swarm Hosts game, and I liked this one a lot more.
On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change.
Well, Ravens are changed too for the same reason. I doubt that people will mass them that much anymore.
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On February 17 2015 02:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:53 Heinsenzerg wrote:
it means they will get boring as fast as regular SH That is just your opinion, some people say that mech is boring as fuck and just as much as Swarm Hosts, some people enjoy playing mech. I definitely see the difference between this and any other Mech vs Swarm Hosts game, and I liked this one a lot more. Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change. Well, Ravens are changed too for the same reason. I doubt that people will mass them that much anymore.
yes of course, if obvious opinions have to be stated every time, then you win
IMO---blah blah
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On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change.
Keep in mind the style and its counterstyle aren't figured out at all. It's like the first swarm host games in early 2013 which were also very exciting. When players like TLO did 2base Swarm Host siege builds and Protoss would try to make their way through the locusts with Colossus/Storm and Zergs hadn't quite figured out to build 50spores with the SHs every game and tried to do BL/Swarm Host attacks.
Like any fundamental change to any unit would look good right now because it would shake things up and there would be exciting action while players are trying to figure out the changes.
It could work out, but from that Good vs Snute game if you look at what Goody's combat management against the SHs was, it was just running away if possible. So the optimal way to fight still seems to be not to fight which is the whole stupidity with SH play all along.
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xtorn, how are you so great and rich and I don't know for sure but I assume sexy?
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On February 17 2015 03:00 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change. Keep in mind the style and its counterstyle aren't figured out at all. It's like the first swarm host games in early 2013 which were also very exciting. When players like TLO did 2base Swarm Host siege builds and Protoss would try to make their way through the locusts with Colossus/Storm and Zergs hadn't quite figured out to build 50spores with the SHs every game and tried to do BL/Swarm Host attacks. Like any fundamental change to any unit would look good right now because it would shake things up and there would be exciting action while players are trying to figure out the changes. It could work out, but from that Good vs Snute game if you look at what Goody's combat management against the SHs was, it was just running away if possible. So the optimal way to fight still seems to be not to fight which is the whole stupidity with SH play all along.
At some points, yes, but on the other hand I saw a lot of wasted opportunities from Goody where he could've literally just a-clicked and destroy half of Snute's army but he would just Siege up in front of Snute's base and wait for new wave of Locusts for some unknown reason(probably because he thought that new Locust wave is coming soon).
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The SH range indicators when moving make it look like it's snowing
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Silly how fast swarmhosts move.
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These SHs are so quick O_o
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They are pretty damn fast..
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Almost saw a SH surround :D
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I'll never understand the need some streamers have to show Twitch chat on screen >.>
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these new swarmhosts are weird
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On February 17 2015 03:26 OtherWorld wrote:
I'll never understand the need some streamers have to show Twitch chat on screen >.>
So single monitor plebs can fullscreen the stream and also experience twitch chat at the same time.
Also, lol swarm hosts are so good. this can't make it into the full game.
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On February 17 2015 03:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:26 OtherWorld wrote:
I'll never understand the need some streamers have to show Twitch chat on screen >.> So single monitor plebs can fullscreen the stream and also experience twitch chat at the same time. Also, lol swarm hosts are so good. this can't make it into the full game.
I fullscreen the stream so I don't have to experience the twitch chat
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On February 17 2015 03:29 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 03:26 OtherWorld wrote:
I'll never understand the need some streamers have to show Twitch chat on screen >.> So single monitor plebs can fullscreen the stream and also experience twitch chat at the same time. Also, lol swarm hosts are so good. this can't make it into the full game. I fullscreen the stream so I don't have to experience the twitch chat
Same d:
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On February 17 2015 03:29 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 03:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 03:26 OtherWorld wrote:
I'll never understand the need some streamers have to show Twitch chat on screen >.> So single monitor plebs can fullscreen the stream and also experience twitch chat at the same time. Also, lol swarm hosts are so good. this can't make it into the full game. I fullscreen the stream so I don't have to experience the twitch chat
Yeah, pretty much, lol.
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On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change.
Ravens are pretty much useless now I doubt anybody will make them, a mech army is too expensive to spend 200 gas for a few auto turrets or a HSM that won't hit anything (specially with SH being this fast)
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On February 17 2015 03:33 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change. Ravens are pretty much useless now I doubt anybody will make them, a mech army is too expensive to spend 200 gas for a few auto turrets or a HSM that won't hit anything (specially with SH being this fast)
They're probably still amazing if you take the skies because they still make you win every fight against zerg antiair besides infestors. But yeah, the only reason for them to be built against ground armies was the old swarm host to begin with, so the cause to add Ravens to a ground army isn't there anymore to begin with.
I really want to see someone who plays like Gumiho or Mvp and just masses BCs in the lategame and see how well it works now, given that SHs camping within spore walls probably isn't viable anymore with the new cooldown. Or just someone skipping tanks completely. And also a Zerg who doesn't open with a Mech blindcounter strategy right from the start, but actually opens without the advantage of having roaches instead of zerglings+speed+melee upgrades in production.
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On February 17 2015 03:33 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 02:55 cakemonster wrote:
This is more exciting than normal SH play against mech. Both sides aren't just having a stalemate fight. Of course with mass Ravens that might change. Ravens are pretty much useless now I doubt anybody will make them, a mech army is too expensive to spend 200 gas for a few auto turrets or a HSM that won't hit anything (specially with SH being this fast)
To be honest, I think that you might want to add few Ravens to these pushes. You are acting like PDD is non-existent anymore and it is not, it just lasts a lot less and it lasts enough for one Locust wave to be absorbed without you taking much damage. If you are in front of Zerg's base that might as well be end for him since next Locust wave won't come for like next 30-50 seconds.
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They should have brought the players to commentate their own games since it is from replays. Could be fun
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Damn Snute is permanently gas-starved
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On February 17 2015 03:51 OtherWorld wrote:
Damn Snute is permanently gas-starved
Well, 200 gas Swarm Hosts can do that to you. :D
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i dont know why everybody is complaining about "the game is gonna die and the buffed SH's killed them" these changes don't feel like a buff in anyways
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These new SHs look so weak
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Can someone tell Rotterdam that Yamato still costs energy? 
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On February 17 2015 03:57 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
i dont know why everybody is complaining about "the game is gonna die and the buffed SH's killed them" these changes don't feel like a buff in anyways
Because people always look at the things in a vacuum, which is bad. They are redesigned, they are different, you can't say that they are better or worse because their role has changed. You can't even judge anything based on these games because Snute still plays with them similarly to how he is playing the old Swarm Hosts, he is defending a lot, massing Queens and Swarm Hosts mostly etc.
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I hope they make the flying part a thing you can toggle off, makes getting the upgrade a downgrade.
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I think the counter-clockwise 3rd on Catallena sucks and nobody should ever take it
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On February 17 2015 04:06 Ej_ wrote:
I think the counter-clockwise 3rd on Catallena sucks and nobody should ever take it
ZvT tho.
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On February 17 2015 04:10 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:06 Ej_ wrote:
I think the counter-clockwise 3rd on Catallena sucks and nobody should ever take it ZvT tho.
I have easier time attacking the forward base and defending the 1 tucked in as Zerg. True story
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shit that fight was reallllyyyy sick
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That's some Toodming level surround right there
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That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround
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well, if they're objectively worse, then that's not very good
but that was siiiiiiiiick by Snute
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On February 17 2015 04:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround
getting into cod lately?
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On February 17 2015 04:21 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround getting into cod lately?
was a long time ago... i've come so far...
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On February 17 2015 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:21 boxerfred wrote:On February 17 2015 04:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround getting into cod lately? was a long time ago... i've come so far...
and tried so hard
wait those aren't the lyrics are they
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On February 17 2015 04:23 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 04:21 boxerfred wrote:On February 17 2015 04:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround getting into cod lately? was a long time ago... i've come so far... and tried so hard wait those aren't the lyrics are they
i dunno, but in the end it doesn't even matter, does it?
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On February 17 2015 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:21 boxerfred wrote:On February 17 2015 04:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround getting into cod lately? was a long time ago... i've come so far...
well yeah, gained self respect. I see you taking part in twitch chat though, so you're losing respect at KPM rate.
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I got the idea! Swarm Hosts will spawn with Flying Locusts by default, and then you upgrade them so they start spawning ground only Locusts. I am a genius, Blizzard hire me!
You can thank me later.
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On February 17 2015 04:25 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 04:21 boxerfred wrote:On February 17 2015 04:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
That's the SC2 equivelant of a 360 noscope. 360 locust surround getting into cod lately? was a long time ago... i've come so far... well yeah, gained self respect. I see you taking part in twitch chat though, so you're losing respect at KPM rate.
I only participate in twitch chat when the faces aren't too prevelant and TL is slow.
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what if you pooled phoenixes late game and then rekt locusts and muta transitions with them?
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God that's fucking broken.
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FINALLY! I see what I wanted to see with them, distracting enemy army with your low tier units while Swarm Hosts are taking important buildings.
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Carriers are NEVER an accident!
edit: why would you GG when you have carriers ....
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That's the equivalent of early WoL high ground behind naturals. Wow.
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On February 17 2015 04:34 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
That's the equivalent of early WoL high ground behind naturals. Wow.
Nah, this is actually counterable.
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so i feel like swarmhosts are really really good in one situation and really really bad in the others. will be interesting to see the pros adapt to this.
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On February 17 2015 04:30 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
what if you pooled phoenixes late game and then rekt locusts and muta transitions with them?
Stop spoiling sOs' next revolutionary strategy d:
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On February 17 2015 04:37 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
so i feel like swarmhosts are really really good in one situation and really really bad in the others. will be interesting to see the pros adapt to this.
It's almost as if you'll have to use them.... strategically. This is unheard of in SC2 and I know pros will sturggle with this.
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On February 17 2015 04:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:37 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
so i feel like swarmhosts are really really good in one situation and really really bad in the others. will be interesting to see the pros adapt to this. It's almost as if you'll have to use them.... strategically. This is unheard of in SC2 and I know pros will sturggle with this.
well last time i asked everybody swarmhosts take no skill or something i dunno man
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what was the results so far?
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On February 17 2015 04:47 aleksano wrote:
what was the results so far?
snute 2-0 goody and snute 2-1 harstem
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On February 17 2015 04:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 04:37 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
so i feel like swarmhosts are really really good in one situation and really really bad in the others. will be interesting to see the pros adapt to this. It's almost as if you'll have to use them.... strategically. This is unheard of in SC2 and I know pros will sturggle with this. well last time i asked everybody swarmhosts take no skill or something i dunno man
all those protoss players must be right, amirite?
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On February 17 2015 04:49 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 04:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 04:37 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
so i feel like swarmhosts are really really good in one situation and really really bad in the others. will be interesting to see the pros adapt to this. It's almost as if you'll have to use them.... strategically. This is unheard of in SC2 and I know pros will sturggle with this. well last time i asked everybody swarmhosts take no skill or something i dunno man all those protoss players must be right, amirite?
Obviously, if they lose against it d:
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On February 17 2015 04:56 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 04:49 Alchemik wrote:On February 17 2015 04:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 04:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 17 2015 04:37 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
so i feel like swarmhosts are really really good in one situation and really really bad in the others. will be interesting to see the pros adapt to this. It's almost as if you'll have to use them.... strategically. This is unheard of in SC2 and I know pros will sturggle with this. well last time i asked everybody swarmhosts take no skill or something i dunno man all those protoss players must be right, amirite? Obviously, if they lose against it d:
right, it does make people feel better
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Why is Hyun making Swarm Hosts and mutalisks?
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On February 17 2015 04:58 Big J wrote:
Why is Hyun making Swarm Hosts and mutalisks?
Standard korean anti_mech play
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On February 17 2015 04:58 Big J wrote:
Why is Hyun making Swarm Hosts and mutalisks?
probably forgot how much SH's cost now
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well at least SH's will never HSM'd any more that's reassuring
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On February 17 2015 05:10 polpot wrote:
That was silly from Hyun
All of those games have been pretty silly, but that's bound to happen with new stuff. I guess the Harstem g1 was interesting because he did a really nice job abusing the longer cooldown.
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On February 17 2015 05:15 Big J wrote:All of those games have been pretty silly, but that's bound to happen with new stuff. I guess the Harstem g1 was interesting because he did a really nice job abusing the longer cooldown.
Yes thats right, but dying whit that big of a bank was a bit awkward.
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On February 17 2015 05:16 polpot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:15 Big J wrote:On February 17 2015 05:10 polpot wrote:
That was silly from Hyun All of those games have been pretty silly, but that's bound to happen with new stuff. I guess the Harstem g1 was interesting because he did a really nice job abusing the longer cooldown. Yes thats right, but dying whit that big of a bank was a bit awkward.
happens when you play with units that never die but take up a ton of supply 
This could become the standard way to die as zerg if you make (too?) many of those new swarm hosts.
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LOL, SHs running away from Hellions.
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Hyun for fuck sake, you had one job! ONE JOB! :D
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I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good.
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oh my god one secnod off that is fucking rough.
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On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good.
i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl
Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans.
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On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans.
what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl
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On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl
SH/Viper will be new BLfestor
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl
fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would.
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On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good. i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's
What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think.
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On February 17 2015 05:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good. i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think.
But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small.
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On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would.
Skin colour?
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On February 17 2015 05:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good. i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think. But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small.
not to mention that half of the time they're complete deadweight since tyhe locusts died and you gotta wait.
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yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game?
Edit: and obviously adjust the game to stay fair
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On February 17 2015 05:37 Big J wrote:
yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game?
rip late game zvp
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On February 17 2015 05:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good. i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think. But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small.
The games I saw were very long with a lot of static d. Don't get me wrong the idea is fine, but I think the numbers still need to be tweaked for the SH to work as intended.
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On February 17 2015 05:37 Big J wrote:
yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game?
Remove tempest too and the game becomes good again.
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On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would.
because people only remember the roach max and don't remember that stephano was the first to use creep spread and a spine wall to tech safely and quickly to infestor/bl
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On February 17 2015 05:35 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. Skin colour?
More like eye shape.
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On February 17 2015 05:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 17 2015 05:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good. i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think. But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small. The games I saw were very long with a lot of static d. Don't get me wrong the idea is fine, but I think the numbers still need to be tweaked for the SH to work as intended.
They were long, but it wasn't because one player was turtling, both players had great defense in those games. Games were overall quite active for Mech and Swarm Hosts games.
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On February 17 2015 05:42 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 17 2015 05:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 17 2015 05:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:On February 17 2015 05:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:21 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I don't know how I feel about those speedy swarm hosts. Fact is they still seem to be massable, which doesn't please me at all. Then again Snute is godlike good. i dont know man, have fun massing them and dying to banshees because all your supply is like 20 SH's What I meant is they still seem to be good when you have 15+ as long as you have the adequate support units (queens complement them really well), which is not the envisioned goal I think. But you can't turtle with them effectively and if you have like 15+ of them, the rest of your army will be really small. The games I saw were very long with a lot of static d. Don't get me wrong the idea is fine, but I think the numbers still need to be tweaked for the SH to work as intended. They were long, but it wasn't because one player was turtling, both players had great defense in those games. Games were overall quite active for Mech and Swarm Hosts games.
Which is saying close to nothing. Everything you can think of and that is not dead is more active than a current mech and SH game. This is an improvement, but I don't think we're there yet.
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On February 17 2015 05:37 Big J wrote:yeah, can we just remove the Swarm Host and the Raven and move on and have a better game? Edit: and obviously adjust the game to stay fair
I think the raven is a really good unit very poorly implemented, also WoL raven was the shit, raven/viking/thor/tank/MMM vs bl/infestor/ling/bane/muta was actually epic, it would've been better if the infestor wasn't ao stupidly strong.
Also whats with blizzard terran spellcasters, 1 is stuck in one MU and the other in a stupid turtle style, can't we have a caster that makes sense please?
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I am still happy with Snute vs. Harstem game 3. That is exactly what I've wanted from new Swarm Hosts. Of course, that game probably wasn't the best showcase of that strategy and Harstem could've played out that a lot better, but it still looked good and fun.
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I'm suprised some few people still think the SH is too strong or needs to be removed entirely.
Same shit about tempest. I believe blizzard will ninja buff carrier/overhaul it again and get rid of the + massive damage for tempest vs air. Maybe add it too vs ground massive ? like a long range slow banshee high hit points.
For example(not a suggestion just example) if the carrier gained + 2 damage per interceptor air upgrade you'd see them in 30-60% of games. Right now you occasionally see a tempest in mid/lategame or in the 1 base proxy tempest vs terran. Other than that u never see either the tempest or carrier.
As for SH, the unit already got nerfed to the ground with the gas cost being double. Anyone who thinks they will function like how they used to needs to go back to gaming school and learn what "30sec cooldowns" actually means.
Also did they reduce the cost of the SH minerals cost? to 100/200 now as in flipped it ? Or is it 200/200 lol.
I think the SH might be a very fun addition to the game with these changes, i just hope people don't cry too over nerf the SH and we'll be stuck with corruptor brood queen viper infestor again.
If you don't like BL/Infestor than atleast be respectful of the SH in none hypocritical ways. The past will not happen over again if you don't over judge units that are allowed to have a different synergy, ergo SH/queen/viper those kind of units.
Honestly the bias is so big in sc2 most of the time between players/streamers/casters/casuals.
Especially casuals lol, or those who consider them to be at the forefront of balance when infact they stopped playing and became a casual recently/while back.
Not implying we can't discuss balance, quite the opposite of that. But don't let it get to your head and continue thinking: "uuuugh remove sh ! remove this remove that" Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
*edit and by mathematical reason i mean, come up with changes to other units if you are in fact still desperate to remove the SH for the better" this better be good lol
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On February 17 2015 05:59 teslar wrote:
Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent.
I don't think it's possible to do so, but can I be vocal about it if I think the tempest overlaps with the carrier and is very poor design wise (restricts the other player, is boring) and that the SH free unit mechanic is not great ? I stand to my point, I think Blizzard is bound to those units that don't fill any real role and aren't well designed and that it was plague the game until the end because Blizzard is just too stubborn to remove something that isn't beneficial for the game. Add bandaids over bandaids, that's their idea, but they're just putting nice clothes and make up on a dead body : in the end, it will still stink.
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On February 17 2015 05:59 teslar wrote:
I'm suprised some few people still think the SH is too strong or needs to be removed entirely.
Same shit about tempest. I believe blizzard will ninja buff carrier/overhaul it again and get rid of the + massive damage for tempest vs air. Maybe add it too vs ground massive ? like a long range slow banshee high hit points.
For example(not a suggestion just example) if the carrier gained + 2 damage per interceptor air upgrade you'd see them in 30-60% of games. Right now you occasionally see a tempest in mid/lategame or in the 1 base proxy tempest vs terran. Other than that u never see either the tempest or carrier.
As for SH, the unit already got nerfed to the ground with the gas cost being double. Anyone who thinks they will function like how they used to needs to go back to gaming school and learn what "30sec cooldowns" actually means.
Also did they reduce the cost of the SH minerals cost? to 100/200 now as in flipped it ? Or is it 200/200 lol.
I think the SH might be a very fun addition to the game with these changes, i just hope people don't cry too over nerf the SH and we'll be stuck with corruptor brood queen viper infestor again.
If you don't like BL/Infestor than atleast be respectful of the SH in none hypocritical ways. The past will not happen over again if you don't over judge units that are allowed to have a different synergy, ergo SH/queen/viper those kind of units.
Honestly the bias is so big in sc2 most of the time between players/streamers/casters/casuals.
Especially casuals lol, or those who consider them to be at the forefront of balance when infact they stopped playing and became a casual recently/while back.
Not implying we can't discuss balance, quite the opposite of that. But don't let it get to your head and continue thinking: "uuuugh remove sh ! remove this remove that" Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Mathematical reason? Here it goes:
We saw Snute play with Swarm Hosts in 5games, 2 vs Goody and 3vs Harstem. In his 40min SH games he lost like 10Swarm Hosts while taking down like 30-40 Tanks/Thors with them. This doesn't mean the unit is imbalanced, but I think it is bad for the entertainment. Units that are massively disproportional in taking down other units over a long course of time make for boring gameplay. Because the best way to use them is to never ever risk those units and - since they are hard to catch or engage into - the best way to play against them is to avoid them. It makes for a metagame in which you don't want to engage directly as the player playing against Swarm Hosts and you can't engage directly as the player playing with them because they aren't good for single engagments.
TLDR: units that enforce dodging engagments are bad and units with overly long range do that. The free unit dynamic makes this even worse.
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On February 17 2015 06:05 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:59 teslar wrote:
I'm suprised some few people still think the SH is too strong or needs to be removed entirely.
Same shit about tempest. I believe blizzard will ninja buff carrier/overhaul it again and get rid of the + massive damage for tempest vs air. Maybe add it too vs ground massive ? like a long range slow banshee high hit points.
For example(not a suggestion just example) if the carrier gained + 2 damage per interceptor air upgrade you'd see them in 30-60% of games. Right now you occasionally see a tempest in mid/lategame or in the 1 base proxy tempest vs terran. Other than that u never see either the tempest or carrier.
As for SH, the unit already got nerfed to the ground with the gas cost being double. Anyone who thinks they will function like how they used to needs to go back to gaming school and learn what "30sec cooldowns" actually means.
Also did they reduce the cost of the SH minerals cost? to 100/200 now as in flipped it ? Or is it 200/200 lol.
I think the SH might be a very fun addition to the game with these changes, i just hope people don't cry too over nerf the SH and we'll be stuck with corruptor brood queen viper infestor again.
If you don't like BL/Infestor than atleast be respectful of the SH in none hypocritical ways. The past will not happen over again if you don't over judge units that are allowed to have a different synergy, ergo SH/queen/viper those kind of units.
Honestly the bias is so big in sc2 most of the time between players/streamers/casters/casuals.
Especially casuals lol, or those who consider them to be at the forefront of balance when infact they stopped playing and became a casual recently/while back.
Not implying we can't discuss balance, quite the opposite of that. But don't let it get to your head and continue thinking: "uuuugh remove sh ! remove this remove that" Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Mathematical reason? Here it goes: We saw Snute play with Swarm Hosts in 5games, 2 vs Goody and 3vs Harstem. In his 40min SH games he lost like 10Swarm Hosts while taking down like 30-40 Tanks/Thors with them. This doesn't mean the unit is imbalanced, but I think it is bad for the entertainment. Units that are massively disproportional in taking down other units over a long course of time make for boring gameplay. Because the best way to use them is to never ever risk those units and - since they are hard to catch or engage into - the best way to play against them is to avoid them. It makes for a metagame in which you don't want to engage directly as the player playing against Swarm Hosts and you can't engage directly as the player playing with them because they aren't good for single engagments. TLDR: units that enforce dodging engagments are bad and units with overly long range do that. The free unit dynamic makes this even worse.
I agree. I didn't see game 3 vs Harstem (which Ramiz seems to have enjoyed) but I saw the other games and I was really bored and annoyed.
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On February 17 2015 06:05 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:59 teslar wrote:
I'm suprised some few people still think the SH is too strong or needs to be removed entirely.
Same shit about tempest. I believe blizzard will ninja buff carrier/overhaul it again and get rid of the + massive damage for tempest vs air. Maybe add it too vs ground massive ? like a long range slow banshee high hit points.
For example(not a suggestion just example) if the carrier gained + 2 damage per interceptor air upgrade you'd see them in 30-60% of games. Right now you occasionally see a tempest in mid/lategame or in the 1 base proxy tempest vs terran. Other than that u never see either the tempest or carrier.
As for SH, the unit already got nerfed to the ground with the gas cost being double. Anyone who thinks they will function like how they used to needs to go back to gaming school and learn what "30sec cooldowns" actually means.
Also did they reduce the cost of the SH minerals cost? to 100/200 now as in flipped it ? Or is it 200/200 lol.
I think the SH might be a very fun addition to the game with these changes, i just hope people don't cry too over nerf the SH and we'll be stuck with corruptor brood queen viper infestor again.
If you don't like BL/Infestor than atleast be respectful of the SH in none hypocritical ways. The past will not happen over again if you don't over judge units that are allowed to have a different synergy, ergo SH/queen/viper those kind of units.
Honestly the bias is so big in sc2 most of the time between players/streamers/casters/casuals.
Especially casuals lol, or those who consider them to be at the forefront of balance when infact they stopped playing and became a casual recently/while back.
Not implying we can't discuss balance, quite the opposite of that. But don't let it get to your head and continue thinking: "uuuugh remove sh ! remove this remove that" Articulate a mathematical reason as to why it should happen or remain silent.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Mathematical reason? Here it goes: We saw Snute play with Swarm Hosts in 5games, 2 vs Goody and 3vs Harstem. In his 40min SH games he lost like 10Swarm Hosts while taking down like 30-40 Tanks/Thors with them. This doesn't mean the unit is imbalanced, but I think it is bad for the entertainment. Units that are massively disproportional in taking down other units over a long course of time make for boring gameplay. Because the best way to use them is to never ever risk those units and - since they are hard to catch or engage into - the best way to play against them is to avoid them. It makes for a metagame in which you don't want to engage directly as the player playing against Swarm Hosts and you can't engage directly as the player playing with them because they aren't good for single engagments. TLDR: units that enforce dodging engagments are bad and units with overly long range do that. The free unit dynamic makes this even worse.
I some what agree with pk wire and more so with Big J. Although wouldn't you say it's hypocritical to keep the raven then ? It's not creating issues now, actually to an extend it already can. If you were to get ridd of sh or other units that dodge things. You'd alter the game to the point where direct engagements and drops/burrow is the only way of fighting or only fight oncreep/ with queens to transfuse or other basic synergy units. Then like i said before if you get rid of those new units... you'd just bl infestor again. Unless you buff like zerg drop to be atleast 40% as good as terran drop. I see no point in preferring to remove sh/nerfing raven/tempest into the ground so they become the next carrier/BC like WOL era.
Removing them or nerfing will just promote allins and proxies. Why bother with lategame when you can just rally push every game 50% of the duration of the game or all game long. It's fun too see that.. but it's just anti climatic. I personally think and believe people don't know much about other issues that are just as likely or more likely to occur when we change the game. I absolutely love changes to the game but disagree that the SH looks like a corpse with makeup and bandaids on it. Blame the raven and carrier as well then. Even medivacs promote cheap harass... without zerg cheap harass/turtle style, zerg has no way of changing the tempo of the game. Infestors got nerfed, lings are still shit unless critical mass + other units/timing of micro and creep/surround etc. Like wtf is a zerg supposed to do ? just go queen brood/spine spore infestor viper ? Oh wait that doesn't sound reminiscing of WOL at all lol.
My point is zergs like to turtle, not because they want to be a dick but rather because they should if they want to win.
Exactly the fault of current balance totally agree. Just that the method of changing the game needs to be crisp.. else you just have zergs corruptor/bl/viper/queen with Static d /creep allover again. I'm getting pretty bored of the whole static D contain in general. Most people believe you need SH to even make that work but that isn't true at all. We could easily go back to even more passive play if you remove the SH.
*edit the medivac example is only true in regards if it is micro'd to it's best potential*
So the passivity of the SH is annoying/not fun at all and bad balance..100% agree.
That's why i think the new SH is great and people who still think SH = bad overall to the game are just wearing their shady shades.
OR if you do feel entitled to keep thinking that, then for the love of sc 2 balance just map out other possibilities. Pointing out the mistakes with units does not equal equating possible better outcomes. As no change is made other than the removal of said unit. Just bothersome to see people think they are fixing the game by spouting x y z is bad because other races hate playing vs it + it tends to be long games. Ok decent points but you have no point other than the obvious information already being repeated.
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This is fucking fantastic.
Would be awesome if this could become a regular thing.
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On February 17 2015 06:28 Ben1500 wrote:
This is fucking fantastic.
Would be awesome if this could become a regular thing.
The balance patch still needs some work, but seeing it played by pros and casted on such a large scale is indeed AWESOME. Thanks to the players and to Rotti and Nate.
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God, it's so refreshing to hear a caster actually apply some thought and reasoning into how a player has been performing recently.
Respect, Rottie. Respect.
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On February 17 2015 06:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 06:28 Ben1500 wrote:
This is fucking fantastic.
Would be awesome if this could become a regular thing. The balance patch still needs some work, but seeing it played by pros and casted on such a large scale is indeed AWESOME. Thanks to the players and to Rotti and Nate.
Not specifically the balance map just showmatchs casted by these guys the stories are amazing.
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For anyone who missed it:
Someone paid Naniwa to coach him, sent his money and a replay in which he 3gated and lost to a 4gater, asking "What could I have done better?" Naniwa sent the money back with the response: "I can do nothing for you."
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Amazing stream so far. Rotti, Nate, and ToD should get Taco Bell to sponsor the Rancho Cup, a Homestory style event.
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glad to see they're stiill doing showmatches for the hell of it, this is a really good game to come back to. Harstem's defensive PvT so sick.
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i can't believe they don't show the supply count in the big fights. it's the most important information to see about the fucking game.
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On February 17 2015 09:38 Poopfeast 024 wrote:
i can't believe they don't show the supply count in the big fights. it's the most important information to see about the fucking game.
Rotti was struggling with the UI the whole game.
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Germany3128 Posts
are there more games coming up ?
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Germany3128 Posts
On February 17 2015 09:47 ssg wrote:
Who they talking about?
If you mean the idiot they are talking about ? Firecake
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NaNiwa : "Yeah Harstem, why don't we practice together ?"
Harstem : "Because you have me blocked on twitter !"
Hahaha this stuff is hilarious. Too bad I have to go to sleep.
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Can we get an update: how did each winner decide to split the money?
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On February 17 2015 10:15 minigwar wrote:
Can we get an update: how did each winner decide to split the money?
i think it's 75 25 for everyone, harstem took 100 against beastyqt i think
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Do those guys have some history with Bly or are they really just bashing him for playing cheesy?
Also sad that they aren't playing the balance map anymore.
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Bly with the anti-bm to make ML seem like a punk. Smooth.
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I don't always watch Europeans play, but when I do it's fucking hilarious. MarineLord bringing the trashtalk.
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That's Naniwa, right? I have to kind of take back some of the bad things I've said about Naniwa, he's actualy being the least BM one here
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On February 17 2015 10:17 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 10:15 minigwar wrote:
Can we get an update: how did each winner decide to split the money? i think it's 75 25 for everyone, harstem took 100 against beastyqt i think
Harstem, haha!
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
"Tod is mad every day when he wakes up and sees he hasn't passed." - Rotterdam
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awesome games!
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On February 17 2015 15:11 xtorn wrote:awesome games!
Happy Birthday!
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On February 17 2015 15:11 xtorn wrote:awesome games!
thanks for this and happy birthday
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Anybody know why Rotterdam decided to remove the recording on twitch?
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On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would.
Because Stephano dominated before and after patch. He was like the only Zerg doing well when every other zerg sucked. He also was the only foreigner who dominated vs Koreans, albeit it was mostly in EU/NA tourneys.
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Time to start a swarm host anti-fanclub? The new swarm host doesn't seem much better in terms of not being boring 
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On February 18 2015 06:53 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. Because Stephano dominated before and after patch. He was like the only Zerg doing well when every other zerg sucked. He also was the only foreigner who dominated vs Koreans, albeit it was mostly in EU/NA tourneys.
It's almost like zergs really had a choice back when BL infestor was their main choice *gasp*.
Why not just go tier 2 all game long lol ? Cost efficiency that's why.
Stephano is a baller who just played how he had too. I honestly don't understand the petty arrogance of anti zerg people.
What other style was really considered stable/viable at the time?
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On February 18 2015 21:40 teslar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 06:53 phodacbiet wrote:On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. Because Stephano dominated before and after patch. He was like the only Zerg doing well when every other zerg sucked. He also was the only foreigner who dominated vs Koreans, albeit it was mostly in EU/NA tourneys. It's almost like zergs really had a choice back when BL infestor was their main choice *gasp*. Why not just go tier 2 all game long lol ? Cost efficiency that's why. Stephano is a baller who just played how he had too. I honestly don't understand the petty arrogance of anti zerg people. What other style was really considered stable/viable at the time?
MutaLing into Ultra worked perfectly fine, it was just nice that Ling Infestor Broodlord gave you a massively imbalanced unit composition as early as 14 minutes in.
Also, Stephano figured out some sick strats, but he mostly played very abusive of poor balance and he has been overhyped for ages and ages and ages as he was the only foreigner to do well. Because of that, people think of him as far better than he actually was in hindsight. That has nothing to do with petty arrogance of anti zerg people/
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On February 19 2015 01:26 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 21:40 teslar wrote:On February 18 2015 06:53 phodacbiet wrote:On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. Because Stephano dominated before and after patch. He was like the only Zerg doing well when every other zerg sucked. He also was the only foreigner who dominated vs Koreans, albeit it was mostly in EU/NA tourneys. It's almost like zergs really had a choice back when BL infestor was their main choice *gasp*. Why not just go tier 2 all game long lol ? Cost efficiency that's why. Stephano is a baller who just played how he had too. I honestly don't understand the petty arrogance of anti zerg people. What other style was really considered stable/viable at the time? MutaLing into Ultra worked perfectly fine, it was just nice that Ling Infestor Broodlord gave you a massively imbalanced unit composition as early as 14 minutes in. Also, Stephano figured out some sick strats, but he mostly played very abusive of poor balance and he has been overhyped for ages and ages and ages as he was the only foreigner to do well. Because of that, people think of him as far better than he actually was in hindsight. That has nothing to do with petty arrogance of anti zerg people/
Wasn't he like the only Zerg with DRG who managed to do well before the Queen patch? Wasn't he the only foreign WoL Zerg that is more remembered for what he achieved without BL/festor than with? Are Ling/festor ZvT or 12min roach max ZvP "abuse of poor balance"?
And I mean overhyped come on. He was the only player on EGTL to be above 50% WR in ProLeague, as well as the only foreigner to ever be >50% WR in ProLeague. That's not overhype, that's deserved hype.
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On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would.
stephano popularized multiple styles before bl infestor became the thing, mass upgraded speedlings without bane into ultra, roach max, mass infestor, etc, and made players like squirtle, alicia, parting, hero, etc. his bitch. but hey you're staff so you're allowed to be ignorant and disrespectful right?
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On February 20 2015 03:44 Poopfeast 024 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. stephano popularized multiple styles before bl infestor became the thing, mass upgraded speedlings without bane into ultra, roach max, mass infestor, etc, and made players like squirtle, alicia, parting, hero, etc. his bitch. but hey you're staff so you're allowed to be ignorant and disrespectful right?
Very shockingly that too many ppl forget how best players played
bl/inf/c era became a thing in ~april 2012. Stephano dominated from sept 2011 until summer 2012. He won IPL3 and ESWC both in Oct 2011.
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On February 20 2015 04:27 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 03:44 Poopfeast 024 wrote:On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. stephano popularized multiple styles before bl infestor became the thing, mass upgraded speedlings without bane into ultra, roach max, mass infestor, etc, and made players like squirtle, alicia, parting, hero, etc. his bitch. but hey you're staff so you're allowed to be ignorant and disrespectful right? Very shockingly that too many ppl forget how best players played bl/inf/c era became a thing in ~april 2012. Stephano dominated from sept 2011 until summer 2012. He won IPL3 and ESWC both in Oct 2011.
Additionally since he always had kinda bad ZvZ he never benefitted from BL/festor as much as his fellow Zergs.
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On February 19 2015 01:26 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 21:40 teslar wrote:On February 18 2015 06:53 phodacbiet wrote:On February 17 2015 05:30 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 stuchiu wrote:
In WoL you beat mech with infestor bl Back when infestors had godlike fungals and godlike infested terrans. what if for lotv they just bring back infestor bl fans would complain about patch zergs but give Stephano a pass cause I dunno why, but they would. Because Stephano dominated before and after patch. He was like the only Zerg doing well when every other zerg sucked. He also was the only foreigner who dominated vs Koreans, albeit it was mostly in EU/NA tourneys. It's almost like zergs really had a choice back when BL infestor was their main choice *gasp*. Why not just go tier 2 all game long lol ? Cost efficiency that's why. Stephano is a baller who just played how he had too. I honestly don't understand the petty arrogance of anti zerg people. What other style was really considered stable/viable at the time? MutaLing into Ultra worked perfectly fine, it was just nice that Ling Infestor Broodlord gave you a massively imbalanced unit composition as early as 14 minutes in. Also, Stephano figured out some sick strats, but he mostly played very abusive of poor balance and he has been overhyped for ages and ages and ages as he was the only foreigner to do well. Because of that, people think of him as far better than he actually was in hindsight. That has nothing to do with petty arrogance of anti zerg people/
If he was "the only foreigner doing well" at a time in which Thorzain, Naniwa and HuK were winning Premier Tournaments against Polt, Nestea and MC I cannot imagine a context in which overhyped makes sense. Sure he was superhyped and I also thought he was overhyped back in mid-end 2011 just because he was #1 on Korea and I thought "guys, that's only ladder. Koreans are going to figure out his ling/infestor/ultra style and then it's back to muta/ling/bling". I guess the joke's on me, since Koreans figured out Muta/ling/bling and Stephano's double upgrade ling/infestor/ultra became the most popular style till mid 2012 "straight to BL/Infestor" became a thing.
Hell, even today we still play double upgrade melee which all roots back to Stephano (who adapted the style from DIMAGA, but Stephano really polished and finalized it).
Also all the strategical inventions pushed by him aside (double upgrade with infestors and without banelings/mutas, roach max, roach/hydra vs Terran in WoL and HotS, Swarm Host ZvZ until it was nerfed...) what was also impressive was that - according to other foreign players - he was mechanically up there with the top Koreans.
I guess the people who said he was the best player in the world were really overhyping him, but even top Korean players considered him a top3 zerg among the likes of GSL winner DongRaeGu and Nestea (don't know which Korean they asked for who was the best Zerg in the world, but I think that was his answer early 2012).
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Naniwa didn't win vs any of those, he won an mlg without koreans, a tiny online tournament and some swedish only.
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Anywhere we can see the VODs?
Sorry if it's been answered deep in the thread, didn't wanna look through all the spoilers.
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On February 20 2015 14:38 JAG.war wrote:
Anywhere we can see the VODs?
Sorry if it's been answered deep in the thread, didn't wanna look through all the spoilers.
Rotti streamed this, so I guess you should try to see if there are VODs on his twitch channel. I doubt that they have been uploaded to Youtube.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/c/c9/Zicon_small.png)
Jens 'Snute' Aasgaard vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/us.png)
