The first standalone and largest ever IEM event on American soil, San Jose is not to be missed. This qualifier will send two from the Asian region to the event.
Qualifier Cup Details
Top 2 receive a spot in IEM San Jose
You must be at least 16 years of age by August 27th 2014 ( the date of the LAN event)
Hotel and flight cost are paid for in full by ESL.
SCHEDULE
Stage 1: China - TBD SEA & ANZ - Sunday, Oct 19 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Korea & Taiwan - Wednesday, Oct 22 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
The map pool for the qualifiers will be the new WCS/ladder map pool released soon and will include the following maps: Catallena LE Deadwing LE Foxtrot Labs LE King Sejong Station LE Nimbus LE Overgrowth LE Merry Go Round LE
Best of 3 in all rounds. Once the finals round is reached the matches end, and the 2 players then move to stage #2.
A map veto (removal and pick) system is used. The high seeded player on the grid starts. Players take it in removing maps until only one remains in a best of 1 or until only 3 maps remain in a best of 3. Then each player picks a map. Maps are played in order they are picked. The remaining map is played last.
The map pool for the qualifiers will be the new WCS/ladder map pool released soon and will include the following maps: Catallena LE Deadwing LE Foxtrot Labs LE King Sejong Station LE Nimbus LE Overgrowth LE Merry Go Round LE
Best of 3 in all rounds. Once the finals round is reached the matches end, and the 2 players then move to stage #2.
A map veto (removal and pick) system is used. The high seeded player on the grid starts. Players take it in removing maps until only one remains in a best of 1 or until only 3 maps remain in a best of 3. Then each player picks a map. Maps are played in order they are picked. The remaining map is played last.
The map pool for the qualifiers will be the new WCS/ladder map pool released soon and will include the following maps: Catallena LE Deadwing LE Foxtrot Labs LE King Sejong Station LE Nimbus LE Overgrowth LE Merry Go Round LE
Best of 3 in all rounds. Once the finals round is reached the matches end, and the 2 players then move to stage #2.
A map veto (removal and pick) system is used. The high seeded player on the grid starts. Players take it in removing maps until only one remains in a best of 1 or until only 3 maps remain in a best of 3. Then each player picks a map. Maps are played in order they are picked. The remaining map is played last.
I see Flash in the participant page, I hope the previous IEM champion is seeded into Stage 2... or given a wildcard spot. If they are trying to get as many people to buy tickets and watch the stream, they should do whatever it takes to get Flash & Jaedong to IEM.
On October 16 2014 20:24 ESLAsia wrote: San and StarDust added to Seeded player list
Seeds are decided based on WCS rankings or?...
popularity in foreign lands maybe? these are some of the best koreans that battle in foreign lands after all
and they are all in the top 8 of WCS points meaning they are the absolute best 8 players in the world
so its only seems fair that they get seeded into stage 2, and bypass the initial stacked qualifiers for stage 1 which many GSL koreans will have to go through
IEM qualifiers have always produced amazing games, sometimes even better than the games at the actual event. Really looking forward to this, and hope my favourite koreans are participating.
On October 21 2014 20:38 Darkdwarf wrote: Seems like the system using a collective Asian qualifier has made the non-korean asian players stop playing in the qualifiers.
basically just call it the korean korean qualifiers
Neither Flash nor Jaedong seeded into stage 2. I thought if they were using an arena as a venue they would want to get the most popular players. Hopefully , we will get to see them wildcarded if they fail to qualify
Basetrade were meant to cover this but they have no power and have pulled out last minute. We at ESLTV were meant to jump in as normal towards the end of the qualifier, we are working on a solution, hopefully go live soon!
omgomgomg Maru Flash and MarineKing....please separate brackets so i can cheer for all of them :3
TT Booo Maru vs Flash Semi Final Maru vs Marine King Quarter Final
deeeadddd hype.
Unless the brackets on ESL will be made into the ones that Liqupedia show.
On October 22 2014 17:03 ApolloSC2 wrote: Basetrade were meant to cover this but they have no power and have pulled out last minute. We at ESLTV were meant to jump in as normal towards the end of the qualifier, we are working on a solution, hopefully go live soon!
PLEASE apollo, help us. I will buy you another Pikachu outfit if you give mkp/maru/flash hypeee
On October 22 2014 17:03 ApolloSC2 wrote: Basetrade were meant to cover this but they have no power and have pulled out last minute. We at ESLTV were meant to jump in as normal towards the end of the qualifier, we are working on a solution, hopefully go live soon!
On October 22 2014 17:03 ApolloSC2 wrote: Basetrade were meant to cover this but they have no power and have pulled out last minute. We at ESLTV were meant to jump in as normal towards the end of the qualifier, we are working on a solution, hopefully go live soon!
Update: We were planned to go live at ESLTV hours from now, so nobody is present at the office to make us go live (its not quite the same as turning on xsplit and just streaming) - Kaelaris and our producer are on the way in, we will start up an earlier than scheduled stream ASAP to cover the games for you. With basetradetv power going out last minute, this is obviously very unexpected. We are trying our best to sort this out asap
On October 22 2014 07:43 doihy wrote: Neither Flash nor Jaedong seeded into stage 2. I thought if they were using an arena as a venue they would want to get the most popular players. Hopefully , we will get to see them wildcarded if they fail to qualify
Qualifier seeding is based on results, not on popularity. You can certainly argue, if WCS points are the best way to measure results, but suggesting Jaedong and Flash should be invited, just because they are Jaedong and Flash seems wrong. I think you could justify Flash, if there would be something like a specific IEM ranking, since he won Toronto, but there seems to be no basis for Jaedong.
On October 22 2014 07:43 doihy wrote: Neither Flash nor Jaedong seeded into stage 2. I thought if they were using an arena as a venue they would want to get the most popular players. Hopefully , we will get to see them wildcarded if they fail to qualify
Qualifier seeding is based on results, not on popularity. You can certainly argue, if WCS points are the best way to measure results, but suggesting Jaedong and Flash should be invited, just because they are Jaedong and Flash seems wrong. I think you could justify Flash, if there would be something like a specific IEM ranking, since he won Toronto, but there seems to be no basis for Jaedong.
That IEM ranking will get him to the IEM World Championships at least.
Looks like Flash's first opponent will be Terminator. Followed by either Stork or MyuNgSiK. Then my guess is he'll face either Bbyong, Alicia or Hack in the semis... then DRG, Sora, HerO, SuperNova or GuMiho in the finals.
Not too difficult of a bracket for Flash considering all the big names taking part in this one.
On October 22 2014 17:46 Xoronius wrote: Who is jjhmvp in the bracket (Seeds opponent)? The real Mvp?
Yes, that's Mvp's registered name on the ESL site.
Thanks. That looks acutally like a doable bracket for him. Seed, Crank and Bravo will not be easy, but are definitly beatable. I guess the last two rounds could become harder, but still not entirely out of reach.
On October 22 2014 17:43 lastride wrote: Please win this flash ! first game flash vs terminator. Hopefully they will stream this
It's Flash. He refuses to be streamed unless the alternative is disqualification. (As an aside, fuck that attitude.)
On October 22 2014 17:46 Xoronius wrote: Who is jjhmvp in the bracket (Seeds opponent)? The real Mvp?
Yes, that's Mvp's registered name on the ESL site.
Thanks. That looks acutally like a doable bracket for him. Seed, Crank and Bravo will not be easy, but are definitly beatable. I guess the last two rounds could become harder, but still not entirely out of reach.
He would still need to go through the Asian Qualifier to go to the event. Sadly, I can't see him do that...
On October 22 2014 17:43 lastride wrote: Please win this flash ! first game flash vs terminator. Hopefully they will stream this
It's Flash. He refuses to be streamed unless the alternative is disqualification. (As an aside, fuck that attitude.)
On October 22 2014 17:46 Xoronius wrote: Who is jjhmvp in the bracket (Seeds opponent)? The real Mvp?
Yes, that's Mvp's registered name on the ESL site.
Thanks. That looks acutally like a doable bracket for him. Seed, Crank and Bravo will not be easy, but are definitly beatable. I guess the last two rounds could become harder, but still not entirely out of reach.
He would still need to go through the Asian Qualifier to go to the event. Sadly, I can't see him do that...
Everything can happen in online qualifiers. Remember, when Myungsik made it through the KR qualifier and proceeded to get stomped by Titan very fast?
On October 22 2014 17:46 Xoronius wrote: Who is jjhmvp in the bracket (Seeds opponent)? The real Mvp?
jjh stands for Jeong Jong Hyeon, his name
Yes, that makes sence, thanks.
On October 22 2014 17:47 SamuraiX- wrote: Looks like Flash's first opponent will be Terminator. Followed by either Stork or MyuNgSiK. Then my guess is he'll face either Bbyong, Alicia or Hack in the semis... then DRG, Sora, HerO, SuperNova or GuMiho in the finals.
Not too difficult of a bracket for Flash considering all the big names taking part in this one.
Well, DRG knocked him out of the GSL. I think (and hope), that he can repeat that here (actually I don't care that much about whom he defeats, as long as he makes it).
On October 22 2014 17:43 lastride wrote: Please win this flash ! first game flash vs terminator. Hopefully they will stream this
It's Flash. He refuses to be streamed unless the alternative is disqualification. (As an aside, fuck that attitude.)
On October 22 2014 17:46 Xoronius wrote: Who is jjhmvp in the bracket (Seeds opponent)? The real Mvp?
Yes, that's Mvp's registered name on the ESL site.
Thanks. That looks acutally like a doable bracket for him. Seed, Crank and Bravo will not be easy, but are definitly beatable. I guess the last two rounds could become harder, but still not entirely out of reach.
He would still need to go through the Asian Qualifier to go to the event. Sadly, I can't see him do that...
Everything can happen in online qualifiers. Remember, when Myungsik made it through the KR qualifier and proceeded to get stomped by Titan very fast?
On October 22 2014 17:47 SamuraiX- wrote: Looks like Flash's first opponent will be Terminator. Followed by either Stork or MyuNgSiK. Then my guess is he'll face either Bbyong, Alicia or Hack in the semis... then DRG, Sora, HerO, SuperNova or GuMiho in the finals.
Not too difficult of a bracket for Flash considering all the big names taking part in this one.
Well, DRG knocked him out of the GSL. I think (and hope), that he can repeat that here (actually I don't care that much about whom he defeats, as long as he makes it).
DRG also had replays from his win at IEM, including several TvZs detailing his exact style.
Props to Slam, BTW. Taking out a soon-to-be Kespa Korean. (Though I suppose he, himself, is a soon-to-be Kespa Taiwanese.)
Not surprised that Armani beat Soulkey, but pretty surprised Soulkey signed up. I thought he was taking a brief sabbatical from SC2 to do some Brood War tournament. (Also, Armani's a beast at online play anyway.)
Either Arthur and Oz have the worst PvT ever, or TY was nervous as hell for 2 bo5 TvPs in a row in the WECG semi final and 3rd/4th place match. He looked shockingly bad vs Sora and Stats and he has just 4-0d two protoss. Hmm lol
On October 22 2014 18:24 Pandemona wrote: Either Arthur and Oz have the worst PvT ever, or TY was nervous as hell for 2 bo5 TvPs in a row in the WECG semi final and 3rd/4th place match. He looked shockingly bad vs Sora and Stats and he has just 4-0d two protoss. Hmm lol
It's easy to look bad against a slightly better opponent. And look good against two slightly weaker ones
On October 22 2014 18:24 Pandemona wrote: Either Arthur and Oz have the worst PvT ever, or TY was nervous as hell for 2 bo5 TvPs in a row in the WECG semi final and 3rd/4th place match. He looked shockingly bad vs Sora and Stats and he has just 4-0d two protoss. Hmm lol
I don't think Oz and Arthur are on the same level as Stats, and Sora... well it depends on the day you watch him play
Dear > AK > TAiLS, in a chain we seem to have missed. That's 2 series wins for Taiwan tonight, which is probably 2 more than most people were expecting.
On October 22 2014 18:28 Circumstance wrote: Dear > AK > TAiLS, in a chain we seem to have missed. That's 2 series wins for Taiwan tonight, which is probably 2 more than most people were expecting.
3 with Has.
Edit: Aeromi or someone else from France: Does anyone know, what is up with Minimath? He is deelaying the bracket for quite a while now.
On October 22 2014 18:28 Circumstance wrote: Dear > AK > TAiLS, in a chain we seem to have missed. That's 2 series wins for Taiwan tonight, which is probably 2 more than most people were expecting.
3 with Has.
Has got a bye. Unless he's beaten Panic and the bracket hasn't updated, it's still 2.
On October 22 2014 18:28 Circumstance wrote: Dear > AK > TAiLS, in a chain we seem to have missed. That's 2 series wins for Taiwan tonight, which is probably 2 more than most people were expecting.
3 with Has.
Has got a bye. Unless he's beaten Panic and the bracket hasn't updated, it's still 2.
On October 22 2014 18:28 Circumstance wrote: Dear > AK > TAiLS, in a chain we seem to have missed. That's 2 series wins for Taiwan tonight, which is probably 2 more than most people were expecting.
3 with Has.
Has got a bye. Unless he's beaten Panic and the bracket hasn't updated, it's still 2.
On October 22 2014 18:35 dazed25 wrote: Holy shit so many upsets. These Korean qualifiers are just brutal.
That's, what I said earlier: Weird shit happens in IEM qualifiers. Don't be surprised, if someone wins the whole thing and loses in the first round of the tourney.
On October 22 2014 18:53 royalroadweed wrote: Flash T_T Yonghwa now terminator. I guess he's officially slumping.
Impossible to tell, we didn't see the games. We'll see at his next tournaments. Maru was also losing a lot in qualifiers recently, and then... http://aligulac.com/players/49-Maru/period/122/
On October 22 2014 19:19 Pandemona wrote: Fantasy go to build in TvZ is Banshee openers. How strange. It's like he has been watching WOL vods or something.
Probably wants to be impervious to Roaches/Banelings busts
Flash lost 0-2 vs Terminator? What the fuck. Korea just has too many good players, you never know what will happen. This qualifier is once again so sick.
On October 22 2014 17:03 ApolloSC2 wrote: Basetrade were meant to cover this but they have no power and have pulled out last minute. We at ESLTV were meant to jump in as normal towards the end of the qualifier, we are working on a solution, hopefully go live soon!
On October 22 2014 17:03 ApolloSC2 wrote: Basetrade were meant to cover this but they have no power and have pulled out last minute. We at ESLTV were meant to jump in as normal towards the end of the qualifier, we are working on a solution, hopefully go live soon!
Oh damn, too bad . Thanks for the info! I hope they get their power back for their own tournament at least.
I just saw that Solar is doing again great, after the 2nd place on the Leifeng Cup. This guy is amazing lately...he might just have made a new fan. Also his english is really good. Definitely a player we will hear about in the future.
On October 22 2014 21:38 DJHelium wrote: TheDwf (and others), I feel the 1 gas 1-1-1 opening is maybe the best build to counter the gas first->reaper opening, do you agree?
So imo Gumiho has gotten quite the bo advantage in both these games.
This is the first time I see this scenario, it's interesting. The elevator has the stronger army for sure at this time and both sides expand roughly at the same time, so yeah I think you're right.
Hmm i was wondering how much stream money can be generated from say 5 hours at 10k watchers. Eg today korean qualifer which brings around that amount and tomorrow asia qualifier with say the same amount. Only the final 2 players get the ticket and hotel free. So will the stream money more or less than the 2 players fully paid trip?
On October 22 2014 19:39 REyeM wrote: Does anyone know why SK telecom heavy hitters aren't playing?
Could be that classic and inno are saving themselves for Blizzcon.
Hot IX Cup is that weekend and soO, Innovation, Classic and Zest have all qualified
Zest is seeded in to Asian Final, you know
I'm sure that was done without him knowing, it's actually quite possible that he will forfeit the qualifier, and if not that probably forfeit the tournament.
On October 17 2014 00:59 doihy wrote: I see Flash in the participant page, I hope the previous IEM champion is seeded into Stage 2... or given a wildcard spot. If they are trying to get as many people to buy tickets and watch the stream, they should do whatever it takes to get Flash & Jaedong to IEM.
why? Jaedong is playing so badly right now, besides EG will probably send him to the open bracket anyways, where he will lose again T_T
On October 23 2014 17:48 pure.Wasted wrote: Could some kind soul please explain why there appear to be two completely different San Jose tournaments going on with the same players?
According to this bracket, Rain is supposed to fight Stats. According to this bracket, Rain just beat soO and is going up against Zest next.
I don't often tune in for qualifiers, I'm sure there's a very obvious explanation for all of it.
First one is from yesterday's KR qualifier, but the ones in the final matches already qualified and the matches didn't need to be played. Today's (the second link) is the final Asia qualifier with new brackets
On October 23 2014 17:48 pure.Wasted wrote: Could some kind soul please explain why there appear to be two completely different San Jose tournaments going on with the same players?
According to this bracket, Rain is supposed to fight Stats. According to this bracket, Rain just beat soO and is going up against Zest next.
I don't often tune in for qualifiers, I'm sure there's a very obvious explanation for all of it.
First one is from yesterday's KR qualifier, but the ones in the final matches already qualified and the matches didn't need to be played. Today's (the second link) is the final Asia qualifier with new brackets
On October 23 2014 18:01 OtherWorld wrote: Wow Zest-Rain, Hyun-herO and Life-San, so many amazing matches incoming !
Rain wins, MC wins, San wins, herO wins Rain wins vs MC and herO wins vs San Rain wins vs herO and advances onto the tournament with herO revenge 2-0 on Zest
On October 23 2014 18:02 pure.Wasted wrote: Man, if HOTS did anything right it was making the Hydra a great unit. Hydras might be my favorite Zerg unit to watch now, after Mutas.
They're still awful to use as a Zerg player though (talking about fun of use/microability)
On October 23 2014 18:02 pure.Wasted wrote: Man, if HOTS did anything right it was making the Hydra a great unit. Hydras might be my favorite Zerg unit to watch now, after Mutas.
This is so true, hydra's are my fave unit by miles They're so satisfying to use.
On October 23 2014 18:02 pure.Wasted wrote: Man, if HOTS did anything right it was making the Hydra a great unit. Hydras might be my favorite Zerg unit to watch now, after Mutas.
They're still awful to use as a Zerg player though (talking about fun of use/microability)
On October 23 2014 18:02 pure.Wasted wrote: Man, if HOTS did anything right it was making the Hydra a great unit. Hydras might be my favorite Zerg unit to watch now, after Mutas.
They're still awful to use as a Zerg player though (talking about fun of use/microability)
What, even on creep?
Hmm on creep it's OK, pretty much like any other Zerg unit, but as an offensive unit I mean. They feel slow and fragile considering their cost. Their DPS is totally insane though
Damn MC 2-0'd Stardust, wtf man, MC pvp getting good, he might have a shot against herO at Blizzcon considering his recent wins in pvp (winning 2-0 vs Stardust in WCS S3, winning 2-1 against Dear and 2-0 against Stork and 2-0 against Stardust again)
On October 23 2014 18:02 pure.Wasted wrote: Man, if HOTS did anything right it was making the Hydra a great unit. Hydras might be my favorite Zerg unit to watch now, after Mutas.
They're still awful to use as a Zerg player though (talking about fun of use/microability)
What, even on creep?
Hmm on creep it's OK, pretty much like any other Zerg unit, but as an offensive unit I mean. They feel slow and fragile considering their cost. Their DPS is totally insane though
I gotta say I find using them really fun. Any time I can find an excuse to use them I will :D They're not the fastest, but they can shoot up!
On October 23 2014 18:02 pure.Wasted wrote: Man, if HOTS did anything right it was making the Hydra a great unit. Hydras might be my favorite Zerg unit to watch now, after Mutas.
They're still awful to use as a Zerg player though (talking about fun of use/microability)
What, even on creep?
Hmm on creep it's OK, pretty much like any other Zerg unit, but as an offensive unit I mean. They feel slow and fragile considering their cost. Their DPS is totally insane though
I gotta say I find using them really fun. Any time I can find an excuse to use them I will :D They're not the fastest, but they can shoot up!
Yeah since HotS they're a good unit for sure, but somehow I don't find them responsive and fun. Also cast San-Life plz edit : oh well Zest-Rain isn't bad either, I hope they'll do Life-San next
Rifkin's lack of enthusiasm for Rain vs Zest is weird.
edit: specifically the way he phrased it. His co-caster said "Rain vs Zest is the best of these in my opinion" and Rifkin basically dismissed that opinion by saying "it doesn't matter if it's good or not, it's the only one we can cast." I'm a Terran diehard and I got more enthusiasm for this PvP than that!
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series
On October 23 2014 18:33 Zealously wrote: Life - San D:
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense to me. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
Maybe "crumbled under the pressure" isn't the right phrase... more like started to panic.
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
That's why I didn't like the finals very much. I don't like to watch someone clearly underperforming, throwing games.
SoO threw several games imo. Not just the 2 rax one.
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
That's why I didn't like the finals very much. I don't like to watch someone clearly underperforming, throwing games.
SoO threw several games imo. Not just the 2 rax one.
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
wat does BO stand for?
build order
oh damn, thanks man that was stupid, I just remembered LOL
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
That's why I didn't like the finals very much. I don't like to watch someone clearly underperforming, throwing games.
SoO threw several games imo. Not just the 2 rax one.
Really? Which ones?
Pff, I have to rewatch it to be precise but I'd say every map pretty much. I remember the last map being tense/ fun to watch but he certainly threw that one (lackluster drop defense for one thing).
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
wat does BO stand for?
Build Order
On October 23 2014 18:48 Penev wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:46 OtherWorld wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:42 pure.Wasted wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:34 OtherWorld wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:32 pure.Wasted wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:24 stuchiu wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:21 Big J wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:19 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's RAIN VS ZEST
If you don't watch that, you don't like SC2
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
That's why I didn't like the finals very much. I don't like to watch someone clearly underperforming, throwing games.
SoO threw several games imo. Not just the 2 rax one.
Really? Which ones?
Pff, I have to rewatch it to be precise but I'd say every map pretty much. I remember the last map being tense/ fun to watch but he certainly threw that one (lackluster drop defense for one thing).
That's a pretty broad definition of "throw." What's the last GSL finals you thought was good?
According to Liquipedia, Hot6ix Cup ends the same week-end when IEM San Jose takes place (6-7Dec). Zest and soO are already invited, I don't know why they participate to this qualifier.
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
wat does BO stand for?
Build Order
On October 23 2014 18:48 Penev wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:46 OtherWorld wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:42 pure.Wasted wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:34 OtherWorld wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:32 pure.Wasted wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:24 stuchiu wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:21 Big J wrote: [quote]
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
That's why I didn't like the finals very much. I don't like to watch someone clearly underperforming, throwing games.
SoO threw several games imo. Not just the 2 rax one.
Really? Which ones?
Pff, I have to rewatch it to be precise but I'd say every map pretty much. I remember the last map being tense/ fun to watch but he certainly threw that one (lackluster drop defense for one thing).
That's a pretty broad definition of "throw." What's the last GSL finals you thought was good?
I think SoO buckled mentally. Still enjoyed the finals tho, even as a SoO fan. Whilst the games wern't extra long or whatever, the back and forth made it a really enjoyable series to watch.
If herO plays against Life like he did against Hyun, there's a good chance we get Life vs. Zest in these finals. That would be a neat preview for Blizzcon.
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
wat does BO stand for?
Build Order
On October 23 2014 18:48 Penev wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:46 OtherWorld wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:42 pure.Wasted wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:34 OtherWorld wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:32 pure.Wasted wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:24 stuchiu wrote:
On October 23 2014 18:21 Big J wrote: [quote]
I was on the verge of tuning out Innovation vs soO GSL finals after 3games... Probably just lost my passion.
well that finals sucked.
I'm honestly surprised so few people enjoyed that finals. The games sucked if judged individually, sure, but as a series, I found it very deep and rewarding as a fan of both players.
I agree. I mean, most GSLs finals suck anyway, and this one did not suck too much. Was there cheese? Yes. Was it bad, because both players made tons of mistakes that should never happen to Code S-level players? No. The only "bad" game, in term of quality of play, that I can think of is the Foxtrot game in which soO lost to a 2 rax despite going 14/14. Apart from that it was a fun a overall cool series.
Yeah, soO really bungled that. I wonder if we can go back to that and say that's the exact moment that he crumbled under the pressure. Because his decision making with retreating the Lings from Inno's depots made zero sense. He knew there could be nothing behind that wall. If he'd committed, at the very least he was guaranteed to suffocate Inno's income.
I don't if it is really pressure, but that's definitely the moment where INnoVation took the mental advantage. And yeah, 14/14 is pretty much supposed to be a BO win against 2rax, I don't even know how he lost that
That's why I didn't like the finals very much. I don't like to watch someone clearly underperforming, throwing games.
SoO threw several games imo. Not just the 2 rax one.
Really? Which ones?
Pff, I have to rewatch it to be precise but I'd say every map pretty much. I remember the last map being tense/ fun to watch but he certainly threw that one (lackluster drop defense for one thing).
That's a pretty broad definition of "throw." What's the last GSL finals you thought was good?
It's not a relative thing is it? If all finals are bad than they're all bad. Another bad one isn't suddenly a good one because it's better than an average final. I find it disappointing to watch someone clearly not playing his best. Doesn't mean that that's a 100% either though; I get enjoyment out of watching players like that regardless.
On October 23 2014 19:08 Dingodile wrote: Why are Zest and SoO playing this qualifier? IEM San Jose and Hot6ix Cup are clashing at 6-7Dec?!
Hot6ix Cup starts the 18Nov, maybe they can be eliminated before the 6-7 Dec, and that case they have a backup plan. Which is not very nice to IEM Organizers.
On October 23 2014 19:09 REyeM wrote: KT Rolster sucks
yeah KT Rolster won PL, they clearly suck!!!!! WRONG! THE ONLY THING THAT SUCKS is your logic (jkjkjk, no offense), but seriously how can you say the team that won proleague sucks
On October 23 2014 19:17 Zealously wrote: Cant watch but I feel Life owning this scrub
Bizarre game on KSS. herO's multitasking too tapped by cannon rushing to get a Nexus up in time, still kills 7 Drones. Life, far behind, starts on the rocks to herO's nat with like 10 lings, herO doesn't scout it in time and doesn't set up any defenses whatsoever, Life gets 10+ Lings into herO's base and wastes them all attacking a cannon, GGs.
On October 23 2014 20:02 DarkLordOlli wrote: Jesus, how can you get so lucky MC
Rain beating herO with dts was skill but MC beating Rain is luck...?
I don't even...
Did you actually watch this game or are you just arguing for the fuck of it? MC put his dark shrine right in his base while an oracle was flying around and literally the only spot in MC's base that the oracle didn't have vision of was where the dark shrine was. It was hidden in plain sight and he got incredibly lucky that Rain didn't fly his oracle there. If he does, the game is over and Rain wins. MC did NOTHING to win this game, it was all about where Rain's oracle flew in and out. Stop being silly.
On October 23 2014 20:02 DarkLordOlli wrote: Jesus, how can you get so lucky MC
Rain beating herO with dts was skill but MC beating Rain is luck...?
I don't even...
Did you actually watch this game or are you just arguing for the fuck of it? MC put his dark shrine right in his base while an oracle was flying around and literally the only spot in MC's base that the oracle didn't have vision of was where the dark shrine was. It was hidden in plain sight and he got incredibly lucky that Rain didn't fly his oracle there. If he does, the game is over and Rain wins. MC did NOTHING to win this game, it was all about where Rain's oracle flew in and out. Stop being silly.
I watched this game and it was as ridicilous as the ace match between herO and Rain.
The better player lost. I just don't understand your reactions. Rain wins with dts = RAIN SO GOOD. MC wins with dts = MC so lucky. Rain did NOTHING to win the ace match either. He got lucky with dts
On October 23 2014 20:02 DarkLordOlli wrote: Jesus, how can you get so lucky MC
Rain beating herO with dts was skill but MC beating Rain is luck...?
I don't even...
Did you actually watch this game or are you just arguing for the fuck of it? MC put his dark shrine right in his base while an oracle was flying around and literally the only spot in MC's base that the oracle didn't have vision of was where the dark shrine was. It was hidden in plain sight and he got incredibly lucky that Rain didn't fly his oracle there. If he does, the game is over and Rain wins. MC did NOTHING to win this game, it was all about where Rain's oracle flew in and out. Stop being silly.
I watched this game and it was as ridicilous as the ace match between herO and Rain.
The better player lost. I just don't understand your reactions. Rain wins with dts = RAIN SO GOOD. MC wins with dts = MC so lucky. Rain did NOTHING to win the ace match either. He got lucky with dts
Rain vs herO was an entirely different game and Rain had some incredibly clutch decisions that won him the game (that snap decision to target down the nexus for example, which supply blocked herO), plus extremely good stalker control. Rain vs MC was a desperation dark shrine in plain sight that somehow didn't get scouted and turned the game completely upside down. If you actually understood what's going on then these reactions would make perfect sense to you.
Saying that Rain "got lucky with DTs vs herO" is completely wrong.
On October 23 2014 20:02 DarkLordOlli wrote: Jesus, how can you get so lucky MC
Rain beating herO with dts was skill but MC beating Rain is luck...?
I don't even...
Did you actually watch this game or are you just arguing for the fuck of it? MC put his dark shrine right in his base while an oracle was flying around and literally the only spot in MC's base that the oracle didn't have vision of was where the dark shrine was. It was hidden in plain sight and he got incredibly lucky that Rain didn't fly his oracle there. If he does, the game is over and Rain wins. MC did NOTHING to win this game, it was all about where Rain's oracle flew in and out. Stop being silly.
I watched this game and it was as ridicilous as the ace match between herO and Rain.
The better player lost. I just don't understand your reactions. Rain wins with dts = RAIN SO GOOD. MC wins with dts = MC so lucky. Rain did NOTHING to win the ace match either. He got lucky with dts
Rain vs herO was an entirely different game and Rain had some incredibly clutch decisions that won him the game (that snap decision to target down the nexus for example, which supply blocked herO), plus extremely good stalker control. Rain vs MC was a desperation dark shrine in plain sight that somehow didn't get scouted and turned the game completely upside down. If you actually understood what's going on then these reactions would make perfect sense to you.
Saying that Rain "got lucky with DTs vs herO" is completely wrong.
Did you actually watch the herO vs Rain game? Rain had completely botched the attack on herO, unscouted dts was the only way Rain could have won that game.
But of course for a biased person it was "extremely good stalker control" heh. Rain got lucky with dts vs herO - ask any neutral person, they will agree with me
On October 23 2014 20:02 DarkLordOlli wrote: Jesus, how can you get so lucky MC
Rain beating herO with dts was skill but MC beating Rain is luck...?
I don't even...
Did you actually watch this game or are you just arguing for the fuck of it? MC put his dark shrine right in his base while an oracle was flying around and literally the only spot in MC's base that the oracle didn't have vision of was where the dark shrine was. It was hidden in plain sight and he got incredibly lucky that Rain didn't fly his oracle there. If he does, the game is over and Rain wins. MC did NOTHING to win this game, it was all about where Rain's oracle flew in and out. Stop being silly.
I watched this game and it was as ridicilous as the ace match between herO and Rain.
The better player lost. I just don't understand your reactions. Rain wins with dts = RAIN SO GOOD. MC wins with dts = MC so lucky. Rain did NOTHING to win the ace match either. He got lucky with dts
Rain vs herO was an entirely different game and Rain had some incredibly clutch decisions that won him the game (that snap decision to target down the nexus for example, which supply blocked herO), plus extremely good stalker control. Rain vs MC was a desperation dark shrine in plain sight that somehow didn't get scouted and turned the game completely upside down. If you actually understood what's going on then these reactions would make perfect sense to you.
Saying that Rain "got lucky with DTs vs herO" is completely wrong.
Did you actually watch the herO vs Rain game? Rain had completely botched the attack on herO, unscouted dts was the only way Rain could have won that game.
But of course for a biased person it was "extremely good stalker control" heh. Rain got lucky with dts vs herO - ask any neutral person, they will agree with me
You're wrong. He didn't "botch" the attack, herO got a great build against him. Did you expect Rain to go home and expand when it was 2base blink vs 1base blink? No. DTs were the best choice he could have made, and it's a build that's very popular in these scenarios. But since Rain kept constantly attacking in, he knew when herO skipped stalkers to get the robo (and he also suicided his MSC for the same purpose). He knew exactly where they were both at. These builds are INCREDIBLY mapped out. Since he kept warping in and attacking in, herO didn't know whether or not he could squeeze in an observer. When Rain did reveal the lower stalker count (indicating that he had resources spent elsewhere), he INSTANTLY jumped on herO's nexus. herO got supply blocked, couldn't build the observer, Rain won. Rain's decisions were RIDICULOUSLY clutch in that game. Please stop arguing if you don't understand the game.
saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
Hey I agree. I just get annoyed by DLO's hypocrisy. Just because a player he likes lost, it went down to luck lol
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
MC built the Dark Shrine in his base when there was an oracle scouting his whole main. The only spot that somehow wasn't checked was where the dark shrine was. It was a desperation attempt that he was incredibly lucky to get away with. As Apollo just said as well.
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
Hey I agree. I just get annoyed by DLO's hypocrisy. Just because a player he likes lost, it went down to luck lol
The difference here is that I can understand when something is impressive or lucky and you apparently don't. And you still keep trying to call me out based on things you don't understand.
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
MC built the Dark Shrine in his base when there was an oracle scouting his whole main. The only spot that somehow wasn't checked was where the dark shrine was. It was a desperation attempt that he was incredibly lucky to get away with. As Apollo just said as well.
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
Hey I agree. I just get annoyed by DLO's hypocrisy. Just because a player he likes lost, it went down to luck lol
The difference here is that I can understand when something is impressive or lucky and you apparently don't. And you still keep trying to call me out based on things you don't understand.
Whatever, Rain lost, MC won, there is a chinese saying, Luck is also a part of a players skill, so calling a lucky dt transition no skill is wrong DLO. GOD this argument is pointless
Kael said that Rain is preparing for San Jose because there is no proleague going on, that might mean hes joining a korean team, omggg I wanna know....
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
MC built the Dark Shrine in his base when there was an oracle scouting his whole main. The only spot that somehow wasn't checked was where the dark shrine was. It was a desperation attempt that he was incredibly lucky to get away with. As Apollo just said as well.
On October 23 2014 20:30 sharkie wrote:
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
Hey I agree. I just get annoyed by DLO's hypocrisy. Just because a player he likes lost, it went down to luck lol
The difference here is that I can understand when something is impressive or lucky and you apparently don't. And you still keep trying to call me out based on things you don't understand.
Whatever, Rain lost, MC won, there is a chinese saying, Luck is also a part of a players skill, so calling a lucky dt transition no skill is wrong DLO. GOD this argument is pointless
I said that MC got lucky, and didn't win this game because of decisions he made but because of one thing and one thing only: because Rain's oracle somehow scouted everywhere BUT where the shrine was. Sorry but I don't count that as an incredible feat of skill by MC.
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
MC built the Dark Shrine in his base when there was an oracle scouting his whole main. The only spot that somehow wasn't checked was where the dark shrine was. It was a desperation attempt that he was incredibly lucky to get away with. As Apollo just said as well.
On October 23 2014 20:30 sharkie wrote:
On October 23 2014 20:28 brickrd wrote: saying that unscouted DTs is "doing nothing to win" is absurd lol, one of the ways you win is by forcing and/or taking advantage of your opponents mistakes. a good terran player will force errors and mistakes by putting pressure on with a reaper, even in the games you dont get any damage you still do it IN CASE you can force an error. a scouting error by rain is an error that means he deserves to win less than if he had scouted better.
all these players have to play on ladder or in practice all the time where im sure they deal with cheese and gimmicks, if you dont beat the cheese and gimmicks you're not playing better than your opponent
Hey I agree. I just get annoyed by DLO's hypocrisy. Just because a player he likes lost, it went down to luck lol
The difference here is that I can understand when something is impressive or lucky and you apparently don't. And you still keep trying to call me out based on things you don't understand.
Whatever, Rain lost, MC won, there is a chinese saying, Luck is also a part of a players skill, so calling a lucky dt transition no skill is wrong DLO. GOD this argument is pointless
I said that MC got lucky, and didn't win this game because of decisions he made but because of one thing and one thing only: because Rain's oracle somehow scouted everywhere BUT where the shrine was. Sorry but I don't count that as an incredible feat of skill by MC.
i hear ya, but MC still won, with or without skill, sometimes the better player loses man, and rain made an error of NOT SCOUTING MC's baseTHOROUGHLY, I am a Rain fan, and I know you are, as much as MC had luck he still took the game from him, fair and square
On October 23 2014 21:52 PepsiMaxxxx wrote: How did MC take a game of Rain?
Rain was in control but somehow missed the dark shrine in MC's base with his oracle. 3 DTs walked into Rain's base and killed the robo and his main nexus.
On October 23 2014 21:51 Undead1993 wrote: actually do we know the casters line up for the blizzcon?
No I don't think so. Was released around this time last year, so should be announced soon.
Hope Kaelaris finally gets to go, don't think so though
ye that's why i am asking would be a shame if kaelaris missed out on the experience again
Honestly, I hope that Kaelaris and Tod stay at home. I do not like them lately, Tod has wrong calls, maybe wronger than Wolf and French accent and Kaelaris... I just don't like his overhyping of some situations. I think it would be for the best to take one caster from each region, then some host(I am looking at your ReDeYe!) and some 4th caster, I would appreciate someone who actually plays Terran(QXC?) because there will be a lot of really good Terrans Edit> So my list would be Apollo, Artosis or Tasteless(frankly the only casting duo I like), Nathanias or Rotti(I don't care who of them) and QXC, then Redeye as a host. Bam!
On October 23 2014 21:51 Undead1993 wrote: actually do we know the casters line up for the blizzcon?
No I don't think so. Was released around this time last year, so should be announced soon.
Hope Kaelaris finally gets to go, don't think so though
ye that's why i am asking would be a shame if kaelaris missed out on the experience again
Honestly, I hope that Kaelaris and Tod stay at home. I do not like them lately, Tod has wrong calls, maybe wronger than Wolf and French accent and Kaelaris... I just don't like his overhyping of some situations. I think it would be for the best to take one caster from each region, then some host(I am looking at your ReDeYe!) and some 4th caster, I would appreciate someone who actually plays Terran(QXC?) because there will be a lot of really good Terrans
Go soO!
Nathanias plays terran!
And I disagree overall. ToD and Kaelaris are my favourite casters, but maybe it's because I really enjoy hype (if it feels genuine).
On October 23 2014 21:51 Undead1993 wrote: actually do we know the casters line up for the blizzcon?
No I don't think so. Was released around this time last year, so should be announced soon.
Hope Kaelaris finally gets to go, don't think so though
ye that's why i am asking would be a shame if kaelaris missed out on the experience again
Honestly, I hope that Kaelaris and Tod stay at home. I do not like them lately, Tod has wrong calls, maybe wronger than Wolf and French accent and Kaelaris... I just don't like his overhyping of some situations. I think it would be for the best to take one caster from each region, then some host(I am looking at your ReDeYe!) and some 4th caster, I would appreciate someone who actually plays Terran(QXC?) because there will be a lot of really good Terrans
Go soO!
Nathanias plays terran!
And I disagree overall. ToD and Kaelaris are my favourite casters, but maybe it's because I really enjoy hype (if it feels genuine).
Different tastes Lately I don't like Kaelaris's voice. It's not his fault, but his voice and hyping level is tearing my ears, same way Tod does it.
It's not their fault, but I fear they can create a casting duo Tod and Kaelaris and that would result in me closing the stream...
I prefer QXC over Nathanias. But yeah, it would be wrong to get there QXC instead of Nathanias. Maybe some Zerg expert - how about Moonglade?
On October 23 2014 22:23 deacon.frost wrote: Who was playing against Naniwa(I think) on Akilon Wastes and was upgrading almost every possible upgrade? This reminds me the game a lot now
Thorzain? In that super long game that Naniwa quit because it became boring. ^^
On October 23 2014 22:23 deacon.frost wrote: Who was playing against Naniwa(I think) on Akilon Wastes and was upgrading almost every possible upgrade? This reminds me the game a lot now
Thorzain? In that super long game that Naniwa quit because it became boring. ^^
It was PvZ, I think it was Naniwa vs JD, massive tech switches into Protoss player losing by starvation.
In any other matchup/compositions soO would have just been able to keep attacking to take the win after getting such a huge advantage, denying the third while getting his 5th up. Not commenting on his choice to go for more mutas after that, but it's just boring that you have to play vs 4 base mech and can't really attack in to them, no matter if mech is actually good or not.
On October 23 2014 22:37 Zheryn wrote: In any other matchup/compositions soO would have just been able to keep attacking to take the win after getting such a huge advantage, denying the third while getting his 5th up. Not commenting on his choice to go for more mutas after that, but it's just boring that you have to play vs 4 base mech and can't really attack in to them, no matter if mech is actually good or not.
Hm sometimes I get the same feeling in TvP. You drop main while denying third, get your third up and get a big army. Then you get stormed once and just die to the 2 base push.
For sure it happens more often to me than to the pros (because my ghost control is non-existant), but it's not that uncommon among pros either.
And yeah, it's bad game design. The "3 base=max eco" (maybe 4 for gas intensive strategies like mech or mass muta) is so terrible. Would be my #1 change for LotV for sure.
On October 23 2014 22:37 Zheryn wrote: In any other matchup/compositions soO would have just been able to keep attacking to take the win after getting such a huge advantage, denying the third while getting his 5th up. Not commenting on his choice to go for more mutas after that, but it's just boring that you have to play vs 4 base mech and can't really attack in to them, no matter if mech is actually good or not.
Hm sometimes I get the same feeling in TvP. You drop main while denying third, get your third up and get a big army. Then you get stormed once and just die to the 2 base push.
For sure it happens more often to me than to the pros (because my ghost control is non-existant), but it's not that uncommon among pros either.
And yeah, it's bad game design. The "3 base=max eco" (maybe 4 for gas intensive strategies like mech or mass muta) is so terrible. Would be my #1 change for LotV for sure.
To me it is "1 emp and I am done" Every race has its own SHTF situations
On October 23 2014 22:37 Zheryn wrote: In any other matchup/compositions soO would have just been able to keep attacking to take the win after getting such a huge advantage, denying the third while getting his 5th up. Not commenting on his choice to go for more mutas after that, but it's just boring that you have to play vs 4 base mech and can't really attack in to them, no matter if mech is actually good or not.
Hm sometimes I get the same feeling in TvP. You drop main while denying third, get your third up and get a big army. Then you get stormed once and just die to the 2 base push.
For sure it happens more often to me than to the pros (because my ghost control is non-existant), but it's not that uncommon among pros either.
And yeah, it's bad game design. The "3 base=max eco" (maybe 4 for gas intensive strategies like mech or mass muta) is so terrible. Would be my #1 change for LotV for sure.
Yeah. Some change to make you be able to capitalize on your advantages without just adding more to your already big bank. Like having a higher supply cap, way less resources at bases so that out-expanding your opponent actually matters would really make the game more interesting I think.
On October 23 2014 22:37 Zheryn wrote: In any other matchup/compositions soO would have just been able to keep attacking to take the win after getting such a huge advantage, denying the third while getting his 5th up. Not commenting on his choice to go for more mutas after that, but it's just boring that you have to play vs 4 base mech and can't really attack in to them, no matter if mech is actually good or not.
Hm sometimes I get the same feeling in TvP. You drop main while denying third, get your third up and get a big army. Then you get stormed once and just die to the 2 base push.
For sure it happens more often to me than to the pros (because my ghost control is non-existant), but it's not that uncommon among pros either.
And yeah, it's bad game design. The "3 base=max eco" (maybe 4 for gas intensive strategies like mech or mass muta) is so terrible. Would be my #1 change for LotV for sure.
Yeah. Some change to make you be able to capitalize on your advantages without just adding more to your already big bank. Like having a higher supply cap, way less resources at bases so that out-expanding your opponent actually matters would really make the game more interesting I think.
The mapmaking community already tested out the fewer resources at bases idea. It was considered a decent idea but never got really popular
On October 23 2014 22:37 Zheryn wrote: In any other matchup/compositions soO would have just been able to keep attacking to take the win after getting such a huge advantage, denying the third while getting his 5th up. Not commenting on his choice to go for more mutas after that, but it's just boring that you have to play vs 4 base mech and can't really attack in to them, no matter if mech is actually good or not.
Hm sometimes I get the same feeling in TvP. You drop main while denying third, get your third up and get a big army. Then you get stormed once and just die to the 2 base push.
For sure it happens more often to me than to the pros (because my ghost control is non-existant), but it's not that uncommon among pros either.
And yeah, it's bad game design. The "3 base=max eco" (maybe 4 for gas intensive strategies like mech or mass muta) is so terrible. Would be my #1 change for LotV for sure.
Yeah. Some change to make you be able to capitalize on your advantages without just adding more to your already big bank. Like having a higher supply cap, way less resources at bases so that out-expanding your opponent actually matters would really make the game more interesting I think.
The mapmaking community already tested out the fewer resources at bases idea. It was considered a decent idea but never got really popular
Also Blizzard working actively against it doesn't help.
On huge maps, I guess you can get away with SG -> robo/forge into third off only one gate, but even then it's tricky. All zerg has to do really is have speed, scout the third timing and make a snap decision on whether or not they want to try and cancel it. Then again my PvZ is awful so who am I to question herO.
Strangely enough this build hits with the same units as the 2-2-2 that was quite trendy at the beginning of HotS, but the first pressures (WP -> sentries + 2 immortals -> same + 2 colos and stalkers if Z isn't dead yet) give it a lot more punch.
Holy shit atleast abuse the really tight area behind the minerals if you want to cannon rush on this map, just wall in a cannon with a pylon on either side behind the minerals and force a cancel...
Can someone recap that last game? Only saw herO walking out with 2immortals at 10:40 or so and still making it work, so obviously there was something going on at the start of the game...
On October 23 2014 23:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: NOOOOOO SOO
is it time to put him on suicide watch? i would be getting worried about a guy with the ability to choke in every single game of his life that matters
Wait until he loses BlizzCon finals to herO
If soO gets second at Blizzcon that would just be too cruel. I'd much rather have him get 3rd/4th if he doesn't win.
I doubt he'll get second, but getting through (probably) Taeja + INno + Zest into losing to someone from the other bracket would be really horrible. Imagine if he does beat Taeja INno and Zest and loses to Classic in the finals after enjoying a 3-0 lead.
On October 23 2014 23:50 Big J wrote: Can someone recap that last game? Only saw herO walking out with 2immortals at 10:40 or so and still making it work, so obviously there was something going on at the start of the game...
Clearly you don't believe enough in the power of immortals.
On October 23 2014 23:50 Big J wrote: Can someone recap that last game? Only saw herO walking out with 2immortals at 10:40 or so and still making it work, so obviously there was something going on at the start of the game...
soO opened hatch first -> drone scout -> pool herO went 13forge -> cannon rush
soO pulled all his drones to defend the rush but it did cost herO 300 lost minerals but since soO pulled all drones he could not build a queen and delayed larva for a long time.
After that herO went sentry drop on natural to kill queen for ff energy and simple immortal push the first push soO held barely, but lost 23 drones to then die to the second push
for some reason soO did not build gas at his third for hydras
On October 23 2014 23:50 Big J wrote: Can someone recap that last game? Only saw herO walking out with 2immortals at 10:40 or so and still making it work, so obviously there was something going on at the start of the game...
soO opened hatch first -> drone scout -> pool herO went 13forge -> cannon rush
soO pulled all his drones to defend the rush but it did cost herO 300 lost minerals but since soO pulled all drones he could not build a queen and delayed larva for a long time.
After that herO went sentry drop on natural to kill queen for ff energy and simple immortal push the first push soO held barely, but lost 23 drones to then die to the second push
for some reason soO did not build gas at his third for hydras
Actually soO opened pool first and hesitated on his hatch. that combined with the massive drone pull and the queen sniped by herO's sentries put soO too far behind economically. herO led in worker count the entire game
I hope there are VODs too, I missed all of it except soO vs Gumiho and soO vs herO and it seems I missed a lot of great SCII action ; would especially love to see some of Rain games, he seemed to be on a tear.
On October 23 2014 23:50 Big J wrote: Can someone recap that last game? Only saw herO walking out with 2immortals at 10:40 or so and still making it work, so obviously there was something going on at the start of the game...
Clearly you don't believe enough in the power of immortals.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yg1posw.png)
IEM Season IX - San Jose
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Glad to see more of him. Now for this KR/TW event.. SO stacked holy F. GOGO DRG!
deeeadddd hype.
DynaMite > ![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/ibifkOfA2QtF05.gif)
