[IEM] Season IX - Toronto Day 2 - Page 218

On August 30 2014 07:22 Doublemint wrote:


I like Flash too and want him to do well. But the damn Protoss hate needs to be eradicated. And MC is the fucking BossToss who can beat fucking anybody if he plays on point.

On August 30 2014 07:33 FuRRie wrote:


She can always play Toss... hurhur.

On August 30 2014 07:32 meshfusion wrote:


The issue is that as a T player playing vs P in the current expansion pack / patch - basically you are constantly behind.
When you start the game you're wondering what you are up against, is it blink-all in ? Is it proxy oracle ? Is it proxy oracle followed by 4 gate off 2 base? is it DTs ? EVEN if you get the reaper in the main base which only very few players are able to do in some maps, that still doesn't mean you are safe because P players can proxy anything out on the map, as MC just showed for 2 games in a row.

EVEN if you are prepared for what's coming, i.e. blindly making turrets and/or having marines in the mineral lines, not only they can still do damage killing other SCVs in areas not covered and so forth, but then you'd expect that being on 1 freaking gateway at home (like in game 3) with a proxy building on the map that did "some" damage but left the main army pretty much intact, you get a huge amount of damage back home with a big amount of marines coming across the map, stimming up at your natural. But the great mechanism introduced by Blizzard of the "1 button-defense" of the photon overcharge basically made it so that pushing up the ramp achieved almost nothing, and with 1 forcefield trapping some marines, plus the time to go up the ramp and the marines being already stimmed once, by stimming them twice once he was at the top of the ramp basically did NO counter damage whatsoever EVEN THO Flash didn't take that much damage from a proxy building and being on 1 gate at home vs a 3 rax stimmed marine push counter attack.

To don't understand how the PO is completely broken and allows players that should take WAY more damage to survive and in MC's case even WIN the game off that absolutely ridiculous build, you must be pretty blindfolded in regards to the current balance of the game. Just like to the people saying that "MC figured out Flash". There was nothing figured out, he just did some """very well executed cheeses""" that no matter what, in T positions are ALWAYS hard to deal with and always end up doing damage even when you know they're coming, and the counter-attack of T players ends up always being total garbage. Don't get my wrong, MC is a beastly player and he's been consistently strong since the old times even when P was struggling, he's one of my favorite players and I respect him a lot. I don't want this to be interpreted as me giving him crap. It's just the photon overcharge that it's absolutely ridiculous and one of the things that ruin the game balance. I think it's clear from all the 3 games (and the hundreds of other games played in TvP) that the P player is always allowed to take some crazy gamble, try some crazy all-in and even if they fail, they're still in the game cause T has basically no way to effectively counter-attack. If T tried to do an all in and failed, he'd be dead 1 minute after that.

Honestly, all this fanboying for MC "outplaying" Flash is totally stupid. Flash in the first game even completely outmacroed hm, sniped the nexus and kept him on 2 bases for a while, and then because - as usual - T is the least forgiving race he ate few storms during the push on the 3rd base, wasn't able to kill it and MC came back into the game.
I feel that some people posting on these live threads topics spitting out some comments, especially about this match up clearly have no clue how messed up the TvP match up is at the moment.

On August 30 2014 07:32 meshfusion wrote:


The issue is that as a T player playing vs P in the current expansion pack / patch - basically you are constantly behind.
When you start the game you're wondering what you are up against, is it blink-all in ? Is it proxy oracle ? Is it proxy oracle followed by 4 gate off 2 base? is it DTs ? EVEN if you get the reaper in the main base which only very few players are able to do in some maps, that still doesn't mean you are safe because P players can proxy anything out on the map, as MC just showed for 2 games in a row.

EVEN if you are prepared for what's coming, i.e. blindly making turrets and/or having marines in the mineral lines, not only they can still do damage killing other SCVs in areas not covered and so forth, but then you'd expect that being on 1 freaking gateway at home (like in game 3) with a proxy building on the map that did "some" damage but left the main army pretty much intact, you get a huge amount of damage back home with a big amount of marines coming across the map, stimming up at your natural. But the great mechanism introduced by Blizzard of the "1 button-defense" of the photon overcharge basically made it so that pushing up the ramp achieved almost nothing, and with 1 forcefield trapping some marines, plus the time to go up the ramp and the marines being already stimmed once, by stimming them twice once he was at the top of the ramp basically did NO counter damage whatsoever EVEN THO Flash didn't take that much damage from a proxy building and being on 1 gate at home vs a 3 rax stimmed marine push counter attack.

To don't understand how the PO is completely broken and allows players that should take WAY more damage to survive and in MC's case even WIN the game off that absolutely ridiculous build, you must be pretty blindfolded in regards to the current balance of the game. Just like to the people saying that "MC figured out Flash". There was nothing figured out, he just did some """very well executed cheeses""" that no matter what, in T positions are ALWAYS hard to deal with and always end up doing damage even when you know they're coming, and the counter-attack of T players ends up always being total garbage. Don't get my wrong, MC is a beastly player and he's been consistently strong since the old times even when P was struggling, he's one of my favorite players and I respect him a lot. I don't want this to be interpreted as me giving him crap. It's just the photon overcharge that it's absolutely ridiculous and one of the things that ruin the game balance. I think it's clear from all the 3 games (and the hundreds of other games played in TvP) that the P player is always allowed to take some crazy gamble, try some crazy all-in and even if they fail, they're still in the game cause T has basically no way to effectively counter-attack. If T tried to do an all in and failed, he'd be dead 1 minute after that.

Honestly, all this fanboying for MC "outplaying" Flash is totally stupid. Flash in the first game even completely outmacroed hm, sniped the nexus and kept him on 2 bases for a while, and then because - as usual - T is the least forgiving race he ate few storms during the push on the 3rd base, wasn't able to kill it and MC came back into the game.
I feel that some people posting on these live threads topics spitting out some comments, especially about this match up clearly have no clue how messed up the TvP match up is at the moment.

On August 30 2014 07:31 Shellshock wrote:

relegated to B stream because of fan favorites it seems