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Okay calm down folks, stop balance whining or the bans are going to get long. |
Good on HerO. all the games I saw were awesome.
Polt is amazing as always, even without a (real) team. If he ever comes back to Korea he'll be unstoppable. I do feel polt messed up by not having a few mines in the top right base. He did remake a factory at one point but I have no idea what he did with it.
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What an incredible tournament! Quality of games was excellent throughout and despite some hiccups and delays that were no fault of the production I also really enjoyed the casters, atmosphere, and of course Redeye knocked it out of the park again keeping the ball rolling. And to top it all off 2 out of my 3 favorite players in the tournament were in the finals! 10/10 would watch again
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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On February 17 2014 11:19 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 11:12 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:09 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:07 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:01 imrusty269 wrote:On February 17 2014 10:59 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 10:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
Probably one of the best tournaments from front to back I've seen in a long time.
Great games trump everything. from apure quality of games point of view, this easily trumped anything there ever was. GSL gonna step up their game man. GSL barely getting started this year, I think this tournament was just a teaser as to the level of play we can expect from 2014. Calling it right now, SC2 gonna hit a golden age of amazingness this year. You should thank Polt for that. I'm not so hopeful for GSL tho. Why? because GSL is a protossfest, and polt is the only one who makes PvT an enjoyable to watch match up atm. not even maru can hold his ground anymore atm. We'll see. Frankly, Polt isn't doing anything new/fancy/hard he's just playing really mechanically and strategically solid. I feel like other Terrans can learn a lot from him. Terrans that I think are frankly better overall players. the only terrans i know who could be better than polt are innovation (slumps), maru (still has to be tested), taeja (still has to be tested but looked shaky and unimpressive at asus rog) and TY (doesn't play in GSL or any other tournamnet besides proleague). out of those i honestly only see taeja and maru emulating this style to fully. innovation always was more of a bruteforcing player, and TY... well he is irrelevant to individual leagues anyway  Honestly the other Terrans need to step their game up. Polt could've had this series if he protected his mineral lines and maybe if he concentrated a bit more on unit to unit counters. Two of those games he had a ghost academy while hero had storm, but produced no ghosts. He was relying on brute force for a bit too long in those games. This event was really fucking solid though. The games were sexy almost all of them. Too bad GSL won't be anything like this. Code A T and Z need to step their fucking game up and get into S.
I think just saying protecting his mineral lines is a bit simplified. It is like saying that HerO would have rolled Polt over if he just stopped all the snipes from Polt. With Polt's Nexus sniping style, you can't really afford to have units at all your minerals lines, units out on the map looking for Nexus snipers AND a main army to stop the protoss from just pushing in. That is what made the game so fun, both players were aggressive and they went blow for blow.
We have to remember that we as spectator see the whole map. So it is easy for us to say Polt should have had units in place for that warp prism drop or HerO should have had units there to prevent the snipe. But in the fog of war, it is impossible to have all your units in position. Rain is probably the best at this with his mass obs. But then he can't be as aggressive, it is a trade off. If you can build an army that can attack while defending everything, it would be OP.
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On February 17 2014 11:18 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 11:15 vthree wrote:On February 17 2014 11:09 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:07 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:01 imrusty269 wrote:On February 17 2014 10:59 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 10:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
Probably one of the best tournaments from front to back I've seen in a long time.
Great games trump everything. from apure quality of games point of view, this easily trumped anything there ever was. GSL gonna step up their game man. GSL barely getting started this year, I think this tournament was just a teaser as to the level of play we can expect from 2014. Calling it right now, SC2 gonna hit a golden age of amazingness this year. You should thank Polt for that. I'm not so hopeful for GSL tho. Why? because GSL is a protossfest, and polt is the only one who makes PvT an enjoyable to watch match up atm. not even maru can hold his ground anymore atm. We'll see. Frankly, Polt isn't doing anything new/fancy/hard he's just playing really mechanically and strategically solid. I feel like other Terrans can learn a lot from him. Terrans that I think are actually better overall players. Also, this tournament was pretty freaking Protoss heavy too. How many did Polt have to fight? And yet the games were still incredible...even PvP is so much fun to watch these days. Bring on 2014, bitches! Polt plays a very marauder heavy style (duh, it is Polt!), where he focuses on sniping Nexus and tech rather then the one big fight where he has to take out the AoE immediately with viking ghosts. Storms also are not as effective vs marauders. The downside to this style is he has a harder time vs zealots and especially zealot warpins since he has to kite a lot even if just defend his own base. Ah, ok. That makes sense. But again, this isn't really hard/fancy just a little different. Opening might take some learning, but overall macro is still the same and you still want to get Vikings vs Colossus and Ghosts vs High Templar. Would be nice to see other Terrans try to see if they can have similar success.
Actually, defending your minerals line from warp in, keeping track of your main army (so it doesn't just get run over) while seeing where the Protoss is vunerable for snipes all at the same time is pretty tough. It might not be as fancy as bio splits or dropping HTs from prisms, but it is just as difficult or maybe even more so due to the multi task.
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On February 17 2014 11:48 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Polt just needed to be much better at handling storm on all fronts. Meaning dodging it, but also stopping storm drops. Hero was getting like 50 worker kills a game purely with his storm drops, and then Polt would have his army just sit there in storm after storm.
With a marauder based army with medivac support, it might not be that bad to sit in storms. Remember that the terran loses a lot of DPS when they try to dodge storm and then the charglots get right on top of them.
As for storm drops, HerO did a great job but remember that he sacrificed his HTs as well. So it wasn't like HerO got 50 SCVs workers for free(The game would have been over a lot sooner if he did that). I don't think we can just look at workers kills, we have to look at how much resources HerO spent to get them. Polt probably could have gotten just as much workers with his drops but he went for Nexus/tech because that was more advantages for them.
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Caught up with the VODs, shame Polt couldn't close it out. I wonder how the series would play out if both were at their best, instead of going into the 13th hour, but alas can't fault IEM for having some insanely good series today. Thank you everyone at IEM. I can say w/o question that this was the best SC2 (games + production + casting + hosting) I've seen in any single tournament.
Grats Hero (argh that was painful to type).
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On February 17 2014 13:07 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 11:19 NoobSkills wrote:On February 17 2014 11:12 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:09 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:07 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:01 imrusty269 wrote:On February 17 2014 10:59 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 10:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
Probably one of the best tournaments from front to back I've seen in a long time.
Great games trump everything. from apure quality of games point of view, this easily trumped anything there ever was. GSL gonna step up their game man. GSL barely getting started this year, I think this tournament was just a teaser as to the level of play we can expect from 2014. Calling it right now, SC2 gonna hit a golden age of amazingness this year. You should thank Polt for that. I'm not so hopeful for GSL tho. Why? because GSL is a protossfest, and polt is the only one who makes PvT an enjoyable to watch match up atm. not even maru can hold his ground anymore atm. We'll see. Frankly, Polt isn't doing anything new/fancy/hard he's just playing really mechanically and strategically solid. I feel like other Terrans can learn a lot from him. Terrans that I think are frankly better overall players. the only terrans i know who could be better than polt are innovation (slumps), maru (still has to be tested), taeja (still has to be tested but looked shaky and unimpressive at asus rog) and TY (doesn't play in GSL or any other tournamnet besides proleague). out of those i honestly only see taeja and maru emulating this style to fully. innovation always was more of a bruteforcing player, and TY... well he is irrelevant to individual leagues anyway Honestly the other Terrans need to step their game up. Polt could've had this series if he protected his mineral lines and maybe if he concentrated a bit more on unit to unit counters. Two of those games he had a ghost academy while hero had storm, but produced no ghosts. He was relying on brute force for a bit too long in those games. This event was really fucking solid though. The games were sexy almost all of them. Too bad GSL won't be anything like this. Code A T and Z need to step their fucking game up and get into S. I think just saying protecting his mineral lines is a bit simplified. It is like saying that HerO would have rolled Polt over if he just stopped all the snipes from Polt. With Polt's Nexus sniping style, you can't really afford to have units at all your minerals lines, units out on the map looking for Nexus snipers AND a main army to stop the protoss from just pushing in. That is what made the game so fun, both players were aggressive and they went blow for blow. We have to remember that we as spectator see the whole map. So it is easy for us to say Polt should have had units in place for that warp prism drop or HerO should have had units there to prevent the snipe. But in the fog of war, it is impossible to have all your units in position. Rain is probably the best at this with his mass obs. But then he can't be as aggressive, it is a trade off. If you can build an army that can attack while defending everything, it would be OP.
It actually is just that simple though. It isn't about leaving army or a big supply of army that is. 2 marauders and a few well placed turrets would deter that drop. Then the protoss would have to remove that 4 supply defense to drop the mineral line. If then protoss decided to take out that defense you could A. Replace it. B. remove miners from location until you can replace it C. attempt to snipe incoming drop. That style of defense saved Hero's base many times. A cannon and a templar. These strategic placements have been used for a long time, but he neglected them, and also he kept taking the base that made sense for his style, but not for protecting the lines, and if that is what you want to accomplish(to be agressive) then you might need to spend some money on turrets.
I want to be clear the cost for hero to remove 20-30 works a drop was typically 500minerals 300 gas costing the terran 1000 minerals AND lowing the amount of mining done. The turrets + marauders as a zoning technique would have made these drops less frequent of irreverent depending on the map or at the very least made the protoss try much harder to pull them off. Also the defense even if it is a light zoning fits with his play style since he attempts to keep aggression on at all times the missing few marines/marauders due to building that defense would not affect him as greatly in the long run when compared to losing 20 workers.
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As Hero won against Jaedong, he had to take the championship. At least I was cheering for that!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37055 Posts
On February 17 2014 07:47 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 07:47 Heartland wrote:On February 17 2014 07:46 nojok wrote:On February 17 2014 07:43 Lorning wrote:
I consider myself lucky that I was never biased towards a certain race.
I guess that's pretty uncommon So you whine about random players on ladder? :> I always proxy gate random players. Fuck those cheesy bastards. as the random player I tried to play macro games twice against seeker and he cheesed me twice. how are we the cheesy bastards?
I cheesed you twice because I had the #YOLO mindset for that specific day.
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On February 17 2014 13:49 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 13:07 vthree wrote:On February 17 2014 11:19 NoobSkills wrote:On February 17 2014 11:12 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:09 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:07 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:01 imrusty269 wrote:On February 17 2014 10:59 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 10:57 Tanzklaue wrote:
[quote]
from apure quality of games point of view, this easily trumped anything there ever was. GSL gonna step up their game man. GSL barely getting started this year, I think this tournament was just a teaser as to the level of play we can expect from 2014. Calling it right now, SC2 gonna hit a golden age of amazingness this year. You should thank Polt for that. I'm not so hopeful for GSL tho. Why? because GSL is a protossfest, and polt is the only one who makes PvT an enjoyable to watch match up atm. not even maru can hold his ground anymore atm. We'll see. Frankly, Polt isn't doing anything new/fancy/hard he's just playing really mechanically and strategically solid. I feel like other Terrans can learn a lot from him. Terrans that I think are frankly better overall players. the only terrans i know who could be better than polt are innovation (slumps), maru (still has to be tested), taeja (still has to be tested but looked shaky and unimpressive at asus rog) and TY (doesn't play in GSL or any other tournamnet besides proleague). out of those i honestly only see taeja and maru emulating this style to fully. innovation always was more of a bruteforcing player, and TY... well he is irrelevant to individual leagues anyway Honestly the other Terrans need to step their game up. Polt could've had this series if he protected his mineral lines and maybe if he concentrated a bit more on unit to unit counters. Two of those games he had a ghost academy while hero had storm, but produced no ghosts. He was relying on brute force for a bit too long in those games. This event was really fucking solid though. The games were sexy almost all of them. Too bad GSL won't be anything like this. Code A T and Z need to step their fucking game up and get into S. I think just saying protecting his mineral lines is a bit simplified. It is like saying that HerO would have rolled Polt over if he just stopped all the snipes from Polt. With Polt's Nexus sniping style, you can't really afford to have units at all your minerals lines, units out on the map looking for Nexus snipers AND a main army to stop the protoss from just pushing in. That is what made the game so fun, both players were aggressive and they went blow for blow. We have to remember that we as spectator see the whole map. So it is easy for us to say Polt should have had units in place for that warp prism drop or HerO should have had units there to prevent the snipe. But in the fog of war, it is impossible to have all your units in position. Rain is probably the best at this with his mass obs. But then he can't be as aggressive, it is a trade off. If you can build an army that can attack while defending everything, it would be OP. It actually is just that simple though. It isn't about leaving army or a big supply of army that is. 2 marauders and a few well placed turrets would deter that drop. Then the protoss would have to remove that 4 supply defense to drop the mineral line. If then protoss decided to take out that defense you could A. Replace it. B. remove miners from location until you can replace it C. attempt to snipe incoming drop. That style of defense saved Hero's base many times. A cannon and a templar. These strategic placements have been used for a long time, but he neglected them, and also he kept taking the base that made sense for his style, but not for protecting the lines, and if that is what you want to accomplish(to be agressive) then you might need to spend some money on turrets. I want to be clear the cost for hero to remove 20-30 works a drop was typically 500minerals 300 gas costing the terran 1000 minerals AND lowing the amount of mining done. The turrets + marauders as a zoning technique would have made these drops less frequent of irreverent depending on the map or at the very least made the protoss try much harder to pull them off. Also the defense even if it is a light zoning fits with his play style since he attempts to keep aggression on at all times the missing few marines/marauders due to building that defense would not affect him as greatly in the long run when compared to losing 20 workers.
2 marauders isn't going to kill the HTs before they get storm off. And unless you have your whole base cover by turrets (which would cost quite a bit of mineral), zealot warpins can still hurt you.
As for protoss base defense, you can't really do a direct comparison because of warp ins. A cannon and HT is enough to hold off until the warp in is finished. HerO would have lost tons of workers from drops if it wasn't for warp in. I am not complaining about balance but rather difference races have different defensive setups. You cannot compare a terran defense vs protoss defense directly.
HerO also lost a lot from Nexus snipes while Polt didn't lose his CC as much. Does that necessary mean HerO had worse base defense, not necessarily, It just means Protoss can kill workers via storm drops much faster and Terran can snipe Nexus faster so that is what they did. At the end of the day, it is eco damage.
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Polt lost?
Omg..nooooooooooo! 
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On February 17 2014 13:49 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 13:07 vthree wrote:On February 17 2014 11:19 NoobSkills wrote:On February 17 2014 11:12 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:09 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:07 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:01 imrusty269 wrote:On February 17 2014 10:59 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 10:57 Tanzklaue wrote:
[quote]
from apure quality of games point of view, this easily trumped anything there ever was. GSL gonna step up their game man. GSL barely getting started this year, I think this tournament was just a teaser as to the level of play we can expect from 2014. Calling it right now, SC2 gonna hit a golden age of amazingness this year. You should thank Polt for that. I'm not so hopeful for GSL tho. Why? because GSL is a protossfest, and polt is the only one who makes PvT an enjoyable to watch match up atm. not even maru can hold his ground anymore atm. We'll see. Frankly, Polt isn't doing anything new/fancy/hard he's just playing really mechanically and strategically solid. I feel like other Terrans can learn a lot from him. Terrans that I think are frankly better overall players. the only terrans i know who could be better than polt are innovation (slumps), maru (still has to be tested), taeja (still has to be tested but looked shaky and unimpressive at asus rog) and TY (doesn't play in GSL or any other tournamnet besides proleague). out of those i honestly only see taeja and maru emulating this style to fully. innovation always was more of a bruteforcing player, and TY... well he is irrelevant to individual leagues anyway Honestly the other Terrans need to step their game up. Polt could've had this series if he protected his mineral lines and maybe if he concentrated a bit more on unit to unit counters. Two of those games he had a ghost academy while hero had storm, but produced no ghosts. He was relying on brute force for a bit too long in those games. This event was really fucking solid though. The games were sexy almost all of them. Too bad GSL won't be anything like this. Code A T and Z need to step their fucking game up and get into S. I think just saying protecting his mineral lines is a bit simplified. It is like saying that HerO would have rolled Polt over if he just stopped all the snipes from Polt. With Polt's Nexus sniping style, you can't really afford to have units at all your minerals lines, units out on the map looking for Nexus snipers AND a main army to stop the protoss from just pushing in. That is what made the game so fun, both players were aggressive and they went blow for blow. We have to remember that we as spectator see the whole map. So it is easy for us to say Polt should have had units in place for that warp prism drop or HerO should have had units there to prevent the snipe. But in the fog of war, it is impossible to have all your units in position. Rain is probably the best at this with his mass obs. But then he can't be as aggressive, it is a trade off. If you can build an army that can attack while defending everything, it would be OP. It actually is just that simple though. It isn't about leaving army or a big supply of army that is. 2 marauders and a few well placed turrets would deter that drop.
Sorry, i just woke up, is this serious ? The turrets are good tho.
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On February 17 2014 11:18 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 11:15 vthree wrote:On February 17 2014 11:09 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:07 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 11:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 11:01 imrusty269 wrote:On February 17 2014 10:59 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 17 2014 10:57 Tanzklaue wrote:On February 17 2014 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
Probably one of the best tournaments from front to back I've seen in a long time.
Great games trump everything. from apure quality of games point of view, this easily trumped anything there ever was. GSL gonna step up their game man. GSL barely getting started this year, I think this tournament was just a teaser as to the level of play we can expect from 2014. Calling it right now, SC2 gonna hit a golden age of amazingness this year. You should thank Polt for that. I'm not so hopeful for GSL tho. Why? because GSL is a protossfest, and polt is the only one who makes PvT an enjoyable to watch match up atm. not even maru can hold his ground anymore atm. We'll see. Frankly, Polt isn't doing anything new/fancy/hard he's just playing really mechanically and strategically solid. I feel like other Terrans can learn a lot from him. Terrans that I think are actually better overall players. Also, this tournament was pretty freaking Protoss heavy too. How many did Polt have to fight? And yet the games were still incredible...even PvP is so much fun to watch these days. Bring on 2014, bitches! Polt plays a very marauder heavy style (duh, it is Polt!), where he focuses on sniping Nexus and tech rather then the one big fight where he has to take out the AoE immediately with viking ghosts. Storms also are not as effective vs marauders. The downside to this style is he has a harder time vs zealots and especially zealot warpins since he has to kite a lot even if just defend his own base. Forcing the P all over defending snipes is proving to be a really strong strategy, though. Polt makes it look pretty easy at times.
nexus sniping is a great strategy when protoss goes for 0/3 upgrades.
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Jaedong was the true winner of this tournament...
A shame he got ....
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Gz to Jaedong and Polt for having shown good games.
Gz to HerO for the first place.
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Despite loosing, Polt has been so entertaining this weekend. his run in the bracket was a long David vs Goliath battle! In the end Goliath defeated him but damn that was so awesome to watch! The comeback at the 5th game of the final was just insane.
Polt just took the first place in my hearth before Taeja! David will come back for his revenge!
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On February 17 2014 17:58 klup wrote:
Despite loosing, Polt has been so entertaining this weekend. his run in the bracket was a long David vs Goliath battle! In the end Goliath defeated him but damn that was so awesome to watch! The comeback at the 5th game of the final was just insane.
Polt just took the first place in my hearth before Taeja! David will come back for his revenge!
The colossus won against the little man. *wink wink*.
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United States97276 Posts
Did anyone point out that hero's IEM win streak is still alive?
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On February 17 2014 18:43 Shellshock wrote:
Did anyone point out that hero's IEM win streak is still alive?
Wax did, in the summary post. Third continuous IEM won by hero
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EPT
