EPT[WCS EU] Challenger Day 1 Season 1 2014 - Page 54
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ssxsilver
United States4409 Posts
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:00 Darkhoarse wrote: But I thought it was all about the bitcoins? Since the result stays the same and arguing takes time, I give up and it was all about the bitcoins. | ||
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:57 Volband wrote: So you say when a little team from the 6th division plays a 1st divison team in a football cup, the little team has a lot of stress on them, because if they lose, they'll have to wait a whole year to compete again, and hell, it's a 1st divison star league! No, not at all. They are happy to play against said team, and utterly proud of themselves to make it this far (because a 6th division team needs to beat higher ones to meet a 1st division one), and if they lose it's expected, if they manage to get a draw (that's a close series if you translate my analogy to SC language) then their city will make a statue for the team, and if they win, well... you better avoid said city for the next few days. No pressure, and he failed, but he was already a winner getting through his bracket, so he shouldn't be ashamed or anything, but me, the viewer has the right to bash on him, because these games were awful to watch, and I have no idea why it had to be a BO3. You argument would make sense if it wasnt demolished by the everyday reality. I mean, say whatever you want, but the "first televised match" is a very real effect. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:57 Volband wrote: So you say when a little team from the 6th division plays a 1st divison team in a football cup, the little team has a lot of stress on them, because if they lose, they'll have to wait a whole year to compete again, and hell, it's a 1st divison star league! No, not at all. They are happy to play against said team, and utterly proud of themselves to make it this far (because a 6th division team needs to beat higher ones to meet a 1st division one), and if they lose it's expected, if they manage to get a draw (that's a close series if you translate my analogy to SC language) then their city will make a statue for the team, and if they win, well... you better avoid said city for the next few days. No pressure, and he failed, but he was already a winner getting through his bracket, so he shouldn't be ashamed or anything, but me, the viewer has the right to bash on him, because these games were awful to watch, and I have no idea why it had to be a BO3. The analogy doesn't really work. Football is not the same thing as Starcraft. Hell when I play good starcraft players that I probably should lose to, I get pretty nervous and I'm not even playing in a tournament that could provide me with a career, livelihood, etc. Plus just because you are facing someone like Naniwa doesn't mean you give up. I'm sure he's been practicing and truly thought he could win. Seems nerve racking for me putting that all on the line. | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:52 Volband wrote: Then he walked willingly into the storms and did not even try to micro. There's amazing micro, there's good micro, there's meh micro, there's bad micro, and there's Stakiman micro, where you a-move, check what's in the fridge, take a shower, then come back to see the end result. Rofl, that's quite funny :D | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:01 Xoronius wrote: Since the result stays the same and arguing takes time, I give up and it was all about the bitcoins. YAY Bitcoins the currency of the future! | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:57 Volband wrote: So you say when a little team from the 6th division plays a 1st divison team in a football cup, the little team has a lot of stress on them, because if they lose, they'll have to wait a whole year to compete again, and hell, it's a 1st divison star league! No, not at all. They are happy to play against said team, and utterly proud of themselves to make it this far (because a 6th division team needs to beat higher ones to meet a 1st division one), and if they lose it's expected, if they manage to get a draw (that's a close series if you translate my analogy to SC language) then their city will make a statue for the team, and if they win, well... you better avoid said city for the next few days. No pressure, and he failed, but he was already a winner getting through his bracket, so he shouldn't be ashamed or anything, but me, the viewer has the right to bash on him, because these games were awful to watch, and I have no idea why it had to be a BO3. Do you compete at any significant level in anything? I read a whole lot of this "there's no pressure so why would he be nervous?"-crap and I think it's bullshit every time. Of course there's pressure. People think that because winning is unlikely that suddenly erases the nerves of competing in front of (tens of thousands of) people. In general, it doesn't. If someone put me in a race with an olympic medalist, you bet your life savings I'd be freaking terrified. I don't want to be embarrassed. Hell, I'm a competitor - I don't want to lose. Especially not when tons of people are watching. If you think Stakiman is happy to have played and lost against Naniwa because it was a "great oppurtunity" (which I suppose it was), I think you're very mistaken. He did not only just lose his chance at making Premier, he did it in disappointing and (to some) humiliating fashion. That doesn't feel good. At all. Even putting all this aside, there is the very real fact that sustaining oneself through Starcraft II is fucking hard. Stakiman needed this win, probably more than Naniwa. | ||
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:01 ssxsilver wrote: Oh good. More Naniwa vs Scarlett discussions. There is no real heated discussion here, we are just having a bit of fun on the end of the tournament day. Since the LR part is over, might as well jump into useless arguments to relax a bit. | ||
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MavivaM
1535 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:57 Volband wrote: So you say when a little team from the 6th division plays a 1st divison team in a football cup, the little team has a lot of stress on them, because if they lose, they'll have to wait a whole year to compete again, and hell, it's a 1st divison star league! No, not at all. They are happy to play against said team, and utterly proud of themselves to make it this far (because a 6th division team needs to beat higher ones to meet a 1st division one), and if they lose it's expected, if they manage to get a draw (that's a close series if you translate my analogy to SC language) then their city will make a statue for the team, and if they win, well... you better avoid said city for the next few days. No pressure, and he failed, but he was already a winner getting through his bracket, so he shouldn't be ashamed or anything, but me, the viewer has the right to bash on him, because these games were awful to watch, and I have no idea why it had to be a BO3. No, on several levels. When a little team plays a professional squad they would give their absolute best and be on top level tension since it's their chance to show to someone more competent their ability. Mediocre people would get content and say "oh well, I made it that far now I can relax". Competitive people always want to do their best, and therefore feel tension. Also: money on the line, another season of Wcs on the line, viewers like you who want to criticize everything since they are behind a keyboard and maybe the fact that Stakiman probably wants to be a professional, so he cannot be content with this result. Unlike him you have no chance to qualify to Wcs afaik, so your "right to bash" looks conceited. | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:01 ssxsilver wrote: Oh good. More Naniwa vs Scarlett discussions. I'm not actually arguing I'm just having a bit of fun  | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
Feel free to attend the LR thread for WCS AM, starting in roughly 1 hour! | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:05 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm not actually arguing I'm just having a bit of fun Both of them mere stepping stones to the deification of HITMAN | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:59 stuchiu wrote: This isn't football. As Wolf often says, a loss here could be the same as the end of his career. Just look at Titan. He himself said that if he hadn't made it into premier, he would have stoped being a professional player and just turned it into a hobby on the side while studying. But he's not a professional player (yet?), and if he gives up on his goal (assuming he wants be a professional gamer) just because he lost to possibly the best foreigner in the world, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Sure, he wanted to win, but with a common sense, he had to know that it's not the time he's supposed to break through. If he wins that's an enormous boost, and if he doesn't... good job making it this far, next time you'll be more lucky with the draws. And I know everyone has some kind of pressure on them, but didn't he have pressure playing the qualifiers? Don't compare this pressure, with the pressure players feel in an ace match, or final, or in a game where they play versus their rivals, or when established pro players are trying to hang on the last straw. Those are the kind of pressures, that can break you hard, not this. | ||
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ssxsilver
United States4409 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:04 Xoronius wrote: There is no real heated discussion here, we are just having a bit of fun on the end of the tournament day. Since the LR part is over, might as well jump into useless arguments to relax a bit. Oh I didn't mean to come off as snarky. I actually find those arguments entertaining along the lines of Kespa vs eSF =P. Anyhow, see you all in the next thread. | ||
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ThePlagueJG
Sweden1010 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:07 stuchiu wrote: Both of them mere stepping stones to the deification of HITMAN Is Hitman the heir of Elfi? | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:07 Volband wrote: But he's not a professional player (yet?), and if he gives up on his goal (assuming he wants be a professional gamer) just because he lost to possibly the best foreigner in the world, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Sure, he wanted to win, but with a common sense, he had to know that it's not the time he's supposed to break through. If he wins that's an enormous boost, and if he doesn't... good job making it this far, next time you'll be more lucky with the draws. And I know everyone has some kind of pressure on them, but didn't he have pressure playing the qualifiers? Don't compare this pressure, with the pressure players feel in an ace match, or final, or in a game where they play versus their rivals, or when established pro players are trying to hang on the last straw. Those are the kind of pressures, that can break you hard, not this. This is stretching too far. The only one who knows if Stakiman played to his best is Stakiman. I'll only say that outside spectators like us never have a good indication of how much pressure a player is ever really feeling at a given moment. | ||
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:05 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm not actually arguing I'm just having a bit of fun Since were already on the way to kill time until WCS AM, have you accepted the undeniable superiority of Round Robin by now? | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:07 Volband wrote: But he's not a professional player (yet?), and if he gives up on his goal (assuming he wants be a professional gamer) just because he lost to possibly the best foreigner in the world, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Sure, he wanted to win, but with a common sense, he had to know that it's not the time he's supposed to break through. If he wins that's an enormous boost, and if he doesn't... good job making it this far, next time you'll be more lucky with the draws. And I know everyone has some kind of pressure on them, but didn't he have pressure playing the qualifiers? Don't compare this pressure, with the pressure players feel in an ace match, or final, or in a game where they play versus their rivals, or when established pro players are trying to hang on the last straw. Those are the kind of pressures, that can break you hard, not this. I would argue that the pressure of having a career is worse. Think of it this way. If Naniwa loses the IEM finals to Life, what is the difference? Sure he makes less money, sure he doesn't get the title. That's a lot of pressure. But he still has his career and popularity to fall back on. He'll be invited to more tournaments, have the opportunity to make more money,and still have tons of fans. Stakiman on the other hand has nothing if he loses to Naniwa but a $600 dollar paycheck and a road ahead of him through another difficult qualifier filled with good Europeans and Koreans alike. He may never play another televised game of Starcraft because of this loss, and that sucks. So yeah, pressure. | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:10 Xoronius wrote: Since were already on the way to kill time until WCS AM, have you accepted the undeniable superiority of Round Robin by now? Round Robin is the Devil's work. | ||
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:07 Volband wrote: But he's not a professional player (yet?), and if he gives up on his goal (assuming he wants be a professional gamer) just because he lost to possibly the best foreigner in the world, then he wasn't serious about it in the first place. Sure, he wanted to win, but with a common sense, he had to know that it's not the time he's supposed to break through. If he wins that's an enormous boost, and if he doesn't... good job making it this far, next time you'll be more lucky with the draws. And I know everyone has some kind of pressure on them, but didn't he have pressure playing the qualifiers? Don't compare this pressure, with the pressure players feel in an ace match, or final, or in a game where they play versus their rivals, or when established pro players are trying to hang on the last straw. Those are the kind of pressures, that can break you hard, not this. Please refer to my previous post: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 07:03 Zealously wrote: Do you compete at any significant level in anything? I read a whole lot of this "there's no pressure so why would he be nervous?"-crap and I think it's bullshit every time. Of course there's pressure. People think that because winning is unlikely that suddenly erases the nerves of competing in front of (tens of thousands of) people. In general, it doesn't. If someone put me in a race with an olympic medalist, you bet your life savings I'd be freaking terrified. I don't want to be embarrassed. Hell, I'm a competitor - I don't want to lose. Especially not when tons of people are watching. If you think Stakiman is happy to have played and lost against Naniwa because it was a "great oppurtunity" (which I suppose it was), I think you're very mistaken. He did not only just lose his chance at making Premier, he did it in disappointing and (to some) humiliating fashion. That doesn't feel good. At all. Even putting all this aside, there is the very real fact that sustaining oneself through Starcraft II is fucking hard. Stakiman needed this win, probably more than Naniwa. Only losers have the "I did my best"-attitude. People who really want to win that just doing your best isn't enough, and losing feels like shit. | ||
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