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United States97276 Posts
cant wait to see MKP play :D
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I really don't think that's the actual MKP, but some other guy. I would ofc be really glad if I am wrong.
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On January 18 2014 08:50 Xiphias wrote:
I really don't think that's the actual MKP, but some other guy. I would ofc be really glad if I am wrong.
No idea, I made sure to point that out in my post. However, there are a number of Koreans that are signed up or plan to sign up . . . also, MKP just started playing SC2 again.
I'd give it a greater than 50% chance that it's him. But that's just a guess.
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On January 18 2014 08:50 Xiphias wrote:
I really don't think that's the actual MKP, but some other guy. I would ofc be really glad if I am wrong.
My thoughts exactly, MKP was playing all day today, was he playing SBow at all during that time? It just seems odd that hed be playing in this tournament.
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On January 18 2014 08:56 rebuffering wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 08:50 Xiphias wrote:
I really don't think that's the actual MKP, but some other guy. I would ofc be really glad if I am wrong. My thoughts exactly, MKP was playing all day today, was he playing SBow at all during that time? It just seems odd that hed be playing in this tournament.
Maybe someone who knows him could ask? Would be fun to know.
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If everyone named MarineKing is actually MKP, then I've beaten MKP in gold league
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I watched him stream a bunch today, never saw any starbow though. Maybe he just signed up not knowing a lot of details, and is practicing now, for fun.
If he really signed up and practices, he's gonna win it ^^
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On January 18 2014 15:17 CutTheEnemy wrote:
I watched him stream a bunch today, never saw any starbow though. Maybe he just signed up not knowing a lot of details, and is practicing now, for fun.
If he really signed up and practices, he's gonna win it ^^
If he signed up, didn't practice, and played with oven mitts on, WHILE blowing up balloons and eating noodles during the game... he would still win :D (I'm referring to GSL off the record, of course)
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On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows.
Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.).
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pretty cool. 
i hope there will be vods^^
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On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.).
Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job.
As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point.
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On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point.
Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues.
Clues:
- They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas.
- Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm.
All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters.
Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that.
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On January 18 2014 18:37 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point. Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues. Clues: - They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas. - Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm. All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters. Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that.
Teamliquid may be a super harsh critic on blizzard for not making the game more like BW but everybody else on the internet was practically always repeating how the game was JUST LIKE BROODWAR. Of course these people didn't know any better about the intricacies of RTS games and didn't care for the competitive scene but they were still potential customers that saw little difference in the BW and SC2 which put them off. Of course Blizzard would want to make something different and if the only section of the community clamouring for more Broodwar style stuff was from TL, which is a relatively small consumer base compared to other sites and places then there's that.
A lot of people on TL seem to not recognise that they are above average individuals when it comes to observing game design compared to uninitiated non-RTS players. I would say Blizzard made the right choice in making SC2 different from Broodwar and am willing to bet that if they made it too similar, they would have harmed their sales figures. I however do not find the game as fun as Broodwar and wish they had gone differently and that is what the mod provides for me.
I also wish people were more like: "Wow! Starbow is really great and I enjoy playing it so much!"
Instead of: "See this Blizzard SC2 Devs! This is how you make a game and this is so much better than SC2 and just shows how bad you are at making games!"
Can't we just say that we enjoy playing a mod for a game?
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On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point.
Make up shit? That is exactly how they acted in WC3. As for Browder, he used that line on many occasions.
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On January 18 2014 18:49 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 18:37 saddaromma wrote:On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point. Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues. Clues: - They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas. - Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm. All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters. Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that. Teamliquid may be a super harsh critic on blizzard for not making the game more like BW but everybody else on the internet was practically always repeating how the game was JUST LIKE BROODWAR. Of course these people didn't know any better about the intricacies of RTS games and didn't care for the competitive scene but they were still potential customers that saw little difference in the BW and SC2 which put them off. Of course Blizzard would want to make something different and if the only section of the community clamouring for more Broodwar style stuff was from TL, which is a relatively small consumer base compared to other sites and places then there's that. A lot of people on TL seem to not recognise that they are above average individuals when it comes to observing game design compared to uninitiated non-RTS players. I would say Blizzard made the right choice in making SC2 different from Broodwar and am willing to bet that if they made it too similar, they would have harmed their sales figures. I however do not find the game as fun as Broodwar and wish they had gone differently and that is what the mod provides for me. I also wish people were more like: "Wow! Starbow is really great and I enjoy playing it so much!" Instead of: "See this Blizzard SC2 Devs! This is how you make a game and this is so much better than SC2 and just shows how bad you are at making games!" Can't we just say that we enjoy playing a mod for a game?
I agree. Think how huge shitstorm it would have been if it had been bw with better graphics?
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On January 18 2014 18:49 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 18:37 saddaromma wrote:On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point. Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues. Clues: - They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas. - Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm. All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters. Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that. Teamliquid may be a super harsh critic on blizzard for not making the game more like BW but everybody else on the internet was practically always repeating how the game was JUST LIKE BROODWAR. Of course these people didn't know any better about the intricacies of RTS games and didn't care for the competitive scene but they were still potential customers that saw little difference in the BW and SC2 which put them off. Of course Blizzard would want to make something different and if the only section of the community clamouring for more Broodwar style stuff was from TL, which is a relatively small consumer base compared to other sites and places then there's that. A lot of people on TL seem to not recognise that they are above average individuals when it comes to observing game design compared to uninitiated non-RTS players. I would say Blizzard made the right choice in making SC2 different from Broodwar and am willing to bet that if they made it too similar, they would have harmed their sales figures. I however do not find the game as fun as Broodwar and wish they had gone differently and that is what the mod provides for me. I also wish people were more like: "Wow! Starbow is really great and I enjoy playing it so much!" Instead of: "See this Blizzard SC2 Devs! This is how you make a game and this is so much better than SC2 and just shows how bad you are at making games!" Can't we just say that we enjoy playing a mod for a game?
1. I'm not bashing SC2. Merely responding to the claim that blizzard has no ego issues.
2. I'm totally alright if they completely replaced all bw units in single player (since casuals appreciate novelty). However the fact that they knew what was expected from sc2 multiplayer, they should've kept it low risk and stick to true scbw values like defender's advantage, zone controlling and very high skill cup. I'm not advocating to have the exact bw units with better graphics. At least they could save the feel and awesomeness of bw. But ofc there came their ego. OMG we can do better than that. They made what they thought it would be cool to have 'colossi' from War of the worlds instead of boring worm reaver. etc. etc.
3. I wouldn't mind if they changed as much as starbow changed bw, maybe even more. But core strategy, meta, flow of the game should've remained the same.
EDIT: 4. But my main concern with their ego remains the same: Lack of community interaction.
PS. I've never said SC2 is crap compared to starbow. not a single time.
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On January 18 2014 19:25 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 18:49 [17]Purple wrote:On January 18 2014 18:37 saddaromma wrote:On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point. Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues. Clues: - They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas. - Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm. All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters. Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that. Teamliquid may be a super harsh critic on blizzard for not making the game more like BW but everybody else on the internet was practically always repeating how the game was JUST LIKE BROODWAR. Of course these people didn't know any better about the intricacies of RTS games and didn't care for the competitive scene but they were still potential customers that saw little difference in the BW and SC2 which put them off. Of course Blizzard would want to make something different and if the only section of the community clamouring for more Broodwar style stuff was from TL, which is a relatively small consumer base compared to other sites and places then there's that. A lot of people on TL seem to not recognise that they are above average individuals when it comes to observing game design compared to uninitiated non-RTS players. I would say Blizzard made the right choice in making SC2 different from Broodwar and am willing to bet that if they made it too similar, they would have harmed their sales figures. I however do not find the game as fun as Broodwar and wish they had gone differently and that is what the mod provides for me. I also wish people were more like: "Wow! Starbow is really great and I enjoy playing it so much!" Instead of: "See this Blizzard SC2 Devs! This is how you make a game and this is so much better than SC2 and just shows how bad you are at making games!" Can't we just say that we enjoy playing a mod for a game? 1. I'm not bashing SC2. Merely responding to the claim that blizzard has no ego issues. 2. I'm totally alright if they completely replaced all bw units in single player (since casuals appreciate novelty). However the fact that they knew what was expected from sc2 multiplayer, they should've kept it low risk and stick to true scbw values like defender's advantage, zone controlling and very high skill cup. I'm not advocating to have the exact bw units with better graphics. At least they could save the feel and awesomeness of bw. But ofc there came their ego. OMG we can do better than that. They made what they thought it would be cool to have 'colossi' from War of the worlds instead of boring worm reaver. etc. etc.3. I wouldn't mind if they changed as much as starbow changed bw, maybe even more. But core strategy, meta, flow of the game should've remained the same. EDIT: 4. But my main concern with their ego remains the same: Lack of community interaction. PS. I've never said SC2 is crap compared to starbow. not a single time.
I never really thought of it like that and it sounds and feels wrong but... it looks like a perfect solution. I have to think more about it, hmm. The high ground advantage and zone control are very important parts but I would argue for a high skillcap present in SC2, though BW obviously was harder with the limited units and harder macro.
The last part was not really aimed at you however as it was to everyone who is convinced that Starbow is the second coming of the messiah and shitting on everything Blizzard.
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On January 18 2014 19:56 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 19:25 saddaromma wrote:On January 18 2014 18:49 [17]Purple wrote:On January 18 2014 18:37 saddaromma wrote:On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point. Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues. Clues: - They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas. - Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm. All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters. Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that. Teamliquid may be a super harsh critic on blizzard for not making the game more like BW but everybody else on the internet was practically always repeating how the game was JUST LIKE BROODWAR. Of course these people didn't know any better about the intricacies of RTS games and didn't care for the competitive scene but they were still potential customers that saw little difference in the BW and SC2 which put them off. Of course Blizzard would want to make something different and if the only section of the community clamouring for more Broodwar style stuff was from TL, which is a relatively small consumer base compared to other sites and places then there's that. A lot of people on TL seem to not recognise that they are above average individuals when it comes to observing game design compared to uninitiated non-RTS players. I would say Blizzard made the right choice in making SC2 different from Broodwar and am willing to bet that if they made it too similar, they would have harmed their sales figures. I however do not find the game as fun as Broodwar and wish they had gone differently and that is what the mod provides for me. I also wish people were more like: "Wow! Starbow is really great and I enjoy playing it so much!" Instead of: "See this Blizzard SC2 Devs! This is how you make a game and this is so much better than SC2 and just shows how bad you are at making games!" Can't we just say that we enjoy playing a mod for a game? 1. I'm not bashing SC2. Merely responding to the claim that blizzard has no ego issues. 2. I'm totally alright if they completely replaced all bw units in single player (since casuals appreciate novelty). However the fact that they knew what was expected from sc2 multiplayer, they should've kept it low risk and stick to true scbw values like defender's advantage, zone controlling and very high skill cup. I'm not advocating to have the exact bw units with better graphics. At least they could save the feel and awesomeness of bw. But ofc there came their ego. OMG we can do better than that. They made what they thought it would be cool to have 'colossi' from War of the worlds instead of boring worm reaver. etc. etc.3. I wouldn't mind if they changed as much as starbow changed bw, maybe even more. But core strategy, meta, flow of the game should've remained the same. EDIT: 4. But my main concern with their ego remains the same: Lack of community interaction. PS. I've never said SC2 is crap compared to starbow. not a single time. I never really thought of it like that and it sounds and feels wrong but... it looks like a perfect solution. I have to think more about it, hmm. The high ground advantage and zone control are very important parts but I would argue for a high skillcap present in SC2, though BW obviously was harder with the limited units and harder macro. The last part was not really aimed at you however as it was to everyone who is convinced that Starbow is the second coming of the messiah and shitting on everything Blizzard.
Now imagine that people have identified those issues in hands-on alpha of SC2 and they made it pretty clear to Blizzard (there were several articles on TL, non-public discussion sessions with community leaders) - it was all ignored...
Nobody is saying they shouldn't have replaced some units (although they did a bad job at this since they replaced many fun units that allowed for plenty of skillful play with some good units and many garbage ones like Collosi or such). The hardcore BW players who laid their hands on Armies of Exigo were awed by how BW-esque that game was despite the fact that there was essentially not a single unit that worked exactly the same as in BW. I think that proves that you don't have to transplant BW units/buildings/abilities one-to-one to make the game stay true to BW.
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Cant we get some options to donate money for inc prizepool? i could drop a few $ to inc the attention
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On January 18 2014 19:25 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 18:49 [17]Purple wrote:On January 18 2014 18:37 saddaromma wrote:On January 18 2014 18:15 aZealot wrote:On January 18 2014 17:48 maybenexttime wrote:On January 18 2014 07:29 SCST wrote:On January 18 2014 07:15 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 18 2014 07:01 SCST wrote:
Hmm notable signups thus far appear to include:
MarineKing
Sage
Lzgamer
Drunkenboi
Goody
Sasquatch
Catz
Dragon
Luckyfool
BeastyQT
Avilo
Lalush
Daisy
Tassadar
There's a barcode or two in there as well, so no telling who they are. And of course some of these people may not be who they say they are, but most likely it's fairly accurate. If this is fairly accurate then. Wow. This is great news, here's hoping that this keeps growing and the popularity gets us some deeper design changes hit when LotV rolls around. + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't count on any design changes for LoTV :/ On the bright side, Blizzard already owns Starbow so there is no conflict of interest really. There's every reason for Blizz to want this game to succeed as it gives them more money and exposure. They might even support a ladder or something if it gets big enough, who knows. Blizzard developers have serious ego issues. Back in WC3 they would practically never revert bad patch changes. They would rather introduce a bunch of other changes that would act as a band-aid solution or pretend the problem is not there... I put past them trying to kill Starbow if it was getting too popular, tbh. :< Whenever there was a suggestion that some aspect of SC2 is bad for the game, they would take it as a personal insult (Browder's constant "then go back to BW" e.g.). Way to make up all kinds of bull shit about the Blizzard developers. Good job. As to Browder, that quote was from an interview, iirc, where almost every question was framed in terms of "but in BW...". He was dead right in his call. I'd hardly call that being insulted than making a rather obvious point. Nope, blizz (or specifically d3/sc2 devs) definitely got ego issues. Clues: - They totally remove most of things from bw and make sc2 a brand new game, as if they want to prove that they can do better than the past sc devs. They could put aside their ego and just stick with what was already there, like many other succesful games (when they do sequels). NO, they had to bring reapers, colossi, voidrays and corruptors.
- Total isolation from community and no interaction whatsoever. Whenever community makes suggestions they just ignore it, whereas many online games are driven by community ideas. - Jay Wilson's answers to d3 critisizm. All in all, they think they know better what we want and how we should play the games. Meanwhile its already 4 years and sc2 is still going downhill. Not gonna even talk about d3. And there wasn't a SINGLE proper discussion with the community on these matters. Like what should be done? How can we regain what starcraft once was? Instead they ignore us, and throw some SITUATION REPORTS from time to time. Last time I checked community manager from blizzard told that people still watch sc2 (around 3k-4k every day), so its ok, game is popular. And most of us are just haters. Yeah you can say that sc2 and d3 made millions of moneys, but thats because the franchise was very strong due to sc1 and d1/d2 legacy. Other than that sc2 and d3 were total failure. And blizzard never admitted that. Teamliquid may be a super harsh critic on blizzard for not making the game more like BW but everybody else on the internet was practically always repeating how the game was JUST LIKE BROODWAR. Of course these people didn't know any better about the intricacies of RTS games and didn't care for the competitive scene but they were still potential customers that saw little difference in the BW and SC2 which put them off. Of course Blizzard would want to make something different and if the only section of the community clamouring for more Broodwar style stuff was from TL, which is a relatively small consumer base compared to other sites and places then there's that. A lot of people on TL seem to not recognise that they are above average individuals when it comes to observing game design compared to uninitiated non-RTS players. I would say Blizzard made the right choice in making SC2 different from Broodwar and am willing to bet that if they made it too similar, they would have harmed their sales figures. I however do not find the game as fun as Broodwar and wish they had gone differently and that is what the mod provides for me. I also wish people were more like: "Wow! Starbow is really great and I enjoy playing it so much!" Instead of: "See this Blizzard SC2 Devs! This is how you make a game and this is so much better than SC2 and just shows how bad you are at making games!" Can't we just say that we enjoy playing a mod for a game? 1. I'm not bashing SC2. Merely responding to the claim that blizzard has no ego issues. 2. I'm totally alright if they completely replaced all bw units in single player (since casuals appreciate novelty). However the fact that they knew what was expected from sc2 multiplayer, they should've kept it low risk and stick to true scbw values like defender's advantage, zone controlling and very high skill cup. I'm not advocating to have the exact bw units with better graphics. At least they could save the feel and awesomeness of bw. But ofc there came their ego. OMG we can do better than that. They made what they thought it would be cool to have 'colossi' from War of the worlds instead of boring worm reaver. etc. etc. 3. I wouldn't mind if they changed as much as starbow changed bw, maybe even more. But core strategy, meta, flow of the game should've remained the same. EDIT: 4. But my main concern with their ego remains the same: Lack of community interaction. PS. I've never said SC2 is crap compared to starbow. not a single time.
1. You still haven't established if Blizzard has ego issues. And, if they have, so what? They are Blizzard.
2. That's a matter of opinion. Believe it or not, I prefer SC2 to BW. BW was/is a great game, but there is a bit of rose-tinted glass nostalgia over it too. If you have some resentment that Blizzard did not deliver the experience you wanted, that's on you.
4. Lack of community interaction? In the early days of WOL and on into HOTS, DK and DB were interacting with the community often. If you see less of them, it is because, as they have said, they are involved in other projects. It may also be because they got tired of constant criticism. This interacting with the community nonsense is often a code word for get yelled at for whatever the whine of the week is on the forums. DB told the BW nostalgics to go play BW? Hell yes.
Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. I've just become a little annoyed at posts like these: Blizzard developers are arrogant; Blizzard developers are lazy; Blizzard developers are just bad at their job. Let's not forget that the SC2 developers spent years putting SC2 together and that it was, is and remains a damn fine game. Moreover, the same developers put in the tools for the editor and made it publicly available so that games like Starbow could come about.
People don't have to be thankful if they don't like SC2. (But, don't make up shit, either).
Anyway. Bah.
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EPT
