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On January 18 2014 23:13 Zheryn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 23:07 Mozdk wrote:On January 18 2014 23:03 Zheryn wrote:
17 min 2base all in. Protoss is just disgusting. I didn't see the game, but if it worked the opponent threw away a large part of his army. If they aren't maxed by then, they are the disgusting ones It was a dragged out immortal sentry all in, he just kept warping in sentries and got more immortals and sat outside zerg base dancing back and forth a bit when Zanster baited out force fields. No protoss units dies tho if you just control it good while you pick off a few units here and there with force fields, and after a while the army was big enough to just charge in to kill a 200 supply zerg. I don't understand why more protoss players don't do this. Stardust was very good at abusing this, but he's one of the few who does it.
"No protoss units dies tho if you just control it good while you pick off a few units here and there with force fields."
If this was the case... that you could just do this all the time, then all P should have 100% winrate.
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Amazing game by Mana. Amazing game in general. The leader switched quite a lot.
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Norway839 Posts
Nothing disgusting about it. Harstem played a fantastic game. He was taking advantage of fake pressure and punished Z for not teching and kept his cool. It wasn't only about the tech either - there were no counter-attacks to Harstem's base and very little force-field baiting, which are things Zerg absolutely has to do when facing this kind of 2-base all-in using only a roach/ling composition and a somewhat low drone-count.
If Zerg is only going to mass roaches and lings, Z has to drain energy and repel the attack using multiple flank-attack-retreat moves or employ counterattacks. There was not enough of this in this game, even if the Zerg played very well also. You can't allow the Protoss to build msc/immo/sentry/zealot army value beyond 140/200 and expect to have a fair chance in a straight up fight with only 200/200 roaches and lings vs msc/immorta/sentry/zealot. As Protoss approaches 170/200 and 200/200, it's basically impossible to win as Zerg. Harstem's final death blow was at 170/200 medium-tech P vs 200/200 low-tech Z. If you know SC2, you know that Protoss is very likely to win and should win this scenario.
There's more to the game than just '17 min 2base all in'. Harstem's play worked because he called Zerg out on the low-tech army and responded just the way you have to. He was being patient and cool about it, more than a lot of other Protoss players would have been. And the Zerg was not ready for just that.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Kaeleris confirmed ignorant heathen.
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This be good. GOGO JJAKJI!
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On January 18 2014 23:18 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Nothing disgusting about it. Harstem played a fantastic game. He was taking advantage of fake pressure and punished Z for not teching and kept his cool. It wasn't only about the tech either - there were no counter-attacks to Harstem's base and very little force-field baiting, which are things Zerg absolutely has to do when facing this kind of 2-base all-in using only a roach/ling composition and a somewhat low drone-count.
If Zerg is only going to mass roaches and lings, Z has to drain energy and repel the attack using multiple flank-attack-retreat moves or employ counterattacks. There was not enough of this in this game, even if the Zerg played very well also. You can't allow the Protoss to build msc/immo/sentry/zealot army value beyond 140/200 and expect to have a fair chance in a straight up fight with only 200/200 roaches and lings vs msc/immorta/sentry/zealot. As Protoss approaches 170/200 and 200/200, it's basically impossible to win as Zerg. Harstem's final death blow was at 170/200 medium-tech P vs 200/200 low-tech Z. If you know SC2, you know that Protoss is very likely to win and should win this scenario.
There's more to the game than just '17 min 2base all in'. Harstem's play worked because he called Zerg out on the low-tech army and responded just the way you have to. He was being patient and cool about it, more than a lot of other Protoss players would have been. And the Zerg was not ready for just that.
Snute you're amazing, responding in LR threads with great knowledge! Thank you for this.
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On January 18 2014 23:24 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 23:18 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Nothing disgusting about it. Harstem played a fantastic game. He was taking advantage of fake pressure and punished Z for not teching and kept his cool. It wasn't only about the tech either - there were no counter-attacks to Harstem's base and very little force-field baiting, which are things Zerg absolutely has to do when facing this kind of 2-base all-in using only a roach/ling composition and a somewhat low drone-count.
If Zerg is only going to mass roaches and lings, Z has to drain energy and repel the attack using multiple flank-attack-retreat moves or employ counterattacks. There was not enough of this in this game, even if the Zerg played very well also. You can't allow the Protoss to build msc/immo/sentry/zealot army value beyond 140/200 and expect to have a fair chance in a straight up fight with only 200/200 roaches and lings vs msc/immorta/sentry/zealot. As Protoss approaches 170/200 and 200/200, it's basically impossible to win as Zerg. Harstem's final death blow was at 170/200 medium-tech P vs 200/200 low-tech Z. If you know SC2, you know that Protoss is very likely to win and should win this scenario.
There's more to the game than just '17 min 2base all in'. Harstem's play worked because he called Zerg out on the low-tech army and responded just the way you have to. He was being patient and cool about it, more than a lot of other Protoss players would have been. And the Zerg was not ready for just that. Snute you're amazing, responding in LR threads with great knowledge! Thank you for this.
I second this. It's brilliant to get this kind of in depth analysis. It's much appreciated. (I also liked Apollo watching the replay of Mana vs Patience to analyse Patience's decisions).
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
As Bitterdam would say, Tom cruise won this game.
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no country for old gods part two
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elfi just have bad luck to have the hardest group
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jjakji is playing a ghostless style without ghosts - Apollo 2014
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Elfi is playing very impressive, thought he'd be dead for sure after the big engagement.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On January 18 2014 23:34 Undead1993 wrote:
no country for old gods part two
On January 18 2014 23:34 Qwerty85 wrote:
#deadGod
Too many heathens. REPENT!
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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EPT
