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On November 24 2013 03:49 neobowman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:47 vjcamarena wrote:On November 24 2013 03:44 Qwerty85 wrote:On November 24 2013 03:42 Squat wrote:
Seriously, a map with gold bases and a layout that puts the thirds within spitting distance? Who made these maps? How is zerg supposed to do anything on these maps? I'm usually not this negative about stuff but this is fucking stupid. Yes, such maps should be tested in casual games before they can be used in actual tournaments. That goes for the first map as well... Not sure what happens with creep on the low ground when lava rises. Apart from the fact that the mapmakers surely tested the maps extensively, they actually hosted a Redbull-sponsored tournament with pros to test the maps. Not liking a map doesn't mean it wasn't tested. The only problem with the testing is that the fans voted in maps afterwards, not players or strategists. Sooooo, sorta skewed the votes a bit in favour of the more fun maps. Not a bad thing but won't lead to the most balanced maps.
Red Bull is all about extreme things, not mundane and balanced 
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On November 24 2013 03:50 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:49 Squat wrote:On November 24 2013 03:45 Big J wrote:On November 24 2013 03:42 Squat wrote:
Seriously, a map with gold bases and a layout that puts the thirds within spitting distance? Who made these maps? How is zerg supposed to do anything on these maps? I'm usually not this negative about stuff but this is fucking stupid. You're not forced to take the golden base and put yourself close to the opponent. And if you do, maybe use the income for defense instead of wasting a thousand zerglings in very bad counterattacks. I'm not saying Golden should have won, Bomber was better and that's fine. I'm just confused why any serious tournament would use maps that would have been shunned like the plague in early 2012. And giving a terran a gold third that close to the zerg is like giving him a free win. I'm just disappointed, this is not a joke, these guys are playing for money and to support themselves, they deserve to have their competition treated seriously. A serious tournament used a map that had neutral creep tumors at the thirds, plus rocks blocking every path to everywhere.
And that was a bad decision too, and hence it's not done anymore.
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On November 24 2013 03:49 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:45 Big J wrote:On November 24 2013 03:42 Squat wrote:
Seriously, a map with gold bases and a layout that puts the thirds within spitting distance? Who made these maps? How is zerg supposed to do anything on these maps? I'm usually not this negative about stuff but this is fucking stupid. You're not forced to take the golden base and put yourself close to the opponent. And if you do, maybe use the income for defense instead of wasting a thousand zerglings in very bad counterattacks. I'm not saying Golden should have won, Bomber was better and that's fine. I'm just confused why any serious tournament would use maps that would have been shunned like the plague in early 2012. And giving a terran a gold third that close to the zerg is like giving him a free win. I'm just disappointed, this is not a joke, these guys are playing for money and to support themselves, they deserve to have their competition treated seriously.
It's not close to the zerg. It's close the other gold base. If you take that gold base as zerg, you should play a strategy that can actually hold it. Noone forces you to take it.
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Woot I love total biscuit ~_~
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Canada8160 Posts
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Oh nice, they have TB here.
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United States97277 Posts
I feel like it's been quite some time since I've heard TB cast sc2
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They're not going to take a few minutes to fix the stream between games? Really!?
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yeeeahhh there he is <3 dat voice is op
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Have to agree. Zerg is either down a gold base or expanding towards Terran. Maybe force diagonal spawns??
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TB is awake? I thought he'd be somewhere passed out drunk after the Axiom win
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On November 24 2013 03:51 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:49 Squat wrote:On November 24 2013 03:45 Big J wrote:On November 24 2013 03:42 Squat wrote:
Seriously, a map with gold bases and a layout that puts the thirds within spitting distance? Who made these maps? How is zerg supposed to do anything on these maps? I'm usually not this negative about stuff but this is fucking stupid. You're not forced to take the golden base and put yourself close to the opponent. And if you do, maybe use the income for defense instead of wasting a thousand zerglings in very bad counterattacks. I'm not saying Golden should have won, Bomber was better and that's fine. I'm just confused why any serious tournament would use maps that would have been shunned like the plague in early 2012. And giving a terran a gold third that close to the zerg is like giving him a free win. I'm just disappointed, this is not a joke, these guys are playing for money and to support themselves, they deserve to have their competition treated seriously. It's not close to the zerg. It's close the other gold base. If you take that gold base as zerg, you should play a strategy that can actually hold it. Noone forces you to take it.
That's simply not true, the terran gold is still really close to the zerg nat, and giving bio/mine an easily accessible gold base is like giving it a steroid injection. Even if the zerg avoids the gold it's still an incredible uphill battle.
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On November 24 2013 03:53 jungsu wrote:
Have to agree. Zerg is either down a gold base or expanding towards Terran. Maybe force diagonal spawns??
gold bases aren't that much better than normal bases. They lack 3000minerals and run out faster. And mules have been patched.
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bomber getting brutalized by bomber?
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4713 Posts
On November 24 2013 03:43 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:42 Squat wrote:
Seriously, a map with gold bases and a layout that puts the thirds within spitting distance? Who made these maps? How is zerg supposed to do anything on these maps? I'm usually not this negative about stuff but this is fucking stupid. Okay we get it, you don't like new maps. Hush.
I don't think that response was appropriate, he raised valid concerns regarding the map. It has many of the features that where figured out to be bad way way back in the day. We know gold bases, especially close to the middle are bad because you can use them as staging points to launch assaults, we especially know they are bad because they heavily favor terrans.
And to sprinkle the cherry on top of the cake, the primary attack path between golds are very narrow, really good for both FFs and aoe like mines and tanks.
No one is saying that trying different maps is bad, but like at least sense should be exercised when making maps, at least after 3 years already of experience under our belts.
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Anyone else getting random 10 second stream freezes even on low?
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On November 24 2013 03:49 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 03:45 Big J wrote:On November 24 2013 03:42 Squat wrote:
Seriously, a map with gold bases and a layout that puts the thirds within spitting distance? Who made these maps? How is zerg supposed to do anything on these maps? I'm usually not this negative about stuff but this is fucking stupid. You're not forced to take the golden base and put yourself close to the opponent. And if you do, maybe use the income for defense instead of wasting a thousand zerglings in very bad counterattacks. I'm not saying Golden should have won, Bomber was better and that's fine. I'm just confused why any serious tournament would use maps that would have been shunned like the plague in early 2012. And giving a terran a gold third that close to the zerg is like giving him a free win. I'm just disappointed, this is not a joke, these guys are playing for money and to support themselves, they deserve to have their competition treated seriously.
One of the latest criticisms that's been heard all around, is that Starcraft II has used mostly "samey" maps throughout it's lifestyle, promoting very few unit compositions. Look at MMM in TvP and MarineMineMedivac in TvZ.
The idea is easy: can we make relatively balanced, weird maps so that once in a while, we see marine tank in TvP? Or mech in TvZ? Same for other compositions on all races.
Doesn't have to be unfair necessarily if several maps lean various ways. In physical sports, sometimes you play on your court, and sometimes you play away.
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On November 24 2013 03:54 Fhiz wrote:
bomber getting brutalized by bomber?
noone else can destroy bomber, it has to be him
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EPT
