On October 25 2013 00:38 Yhamm wrote: you guys realize Apocalypse also played the first qualifier last Saturday? He only lost in the Ro16. 51 round before playing Scarlett if he had win)
he was already in the qualifier #2 the day before the Finals.
complaining about his participation before the finals was a bit late :/
Thats why I keep saying I complained about it before qualifier #1 even took place. As ive lost to him in Quali #1 and quali #2 in ro8...
On October 25 2013 00:38 Yhamm wrote: you guys realize Apocalypse also played the first qualifier last Saturday? He only lost in the Ro16. 51 round before playing Scarlett if he had win)
he was already in the qualifier #2 the day before the Finals.
complaining about his participation before the finals was a bit late :/
Thats why I keep saying I complained about it before qualifier #1 even took place. As ive lost to him in Quali #1 and quali #2 in ro8...
On October 25 2013 00:37 needcomputer wrote: Grab your pitchforks! Unfortunately, I can't find my "made in china" pitchfork.
On a more serious note... If they allowed Apoc to play and did not disqualify him, I don't see what's the problem. Redbull may have made a mistake, but once you make the mistake, you should honor it. It's not fair to Apoc to disqualify him now... Scarlett shouldn't go apeshit either. She might be mad, but it is not HER tournament, it's up to Redbull to make a decision before she decides to take matters into her own hands. I think both them should be disqualified.
Its a bad precedent and someone needs to get burned at some point if these tournaments are ever going to be run properly.
i think the important thing to take away from this all is that scarlett has interacted more with fans/social media over the last 24 hours than she has in 3 months. the way for acer to build the scarlett brand is to piss her off constantly.
On October 24 2013 23:28 turdburgler wrote: in some peoples minds by going on to play the game she would be legitimizing the move (by apoc). if she really believed in her position they wouldnt play the game.
another reason they cant just play on and sort is later is because the more games that get played with 'rule breakers' in, the more work that needs to go in to fix it if scarlett is correct. so its in everyones best interest to just stop the bracket as soon as the complaint is made and resolve that asap rather than use resources to run a bracket that might be worthless.
and the precedent for this in esports is that the tournament will just say fuck you to the people who lost to the rule breaker and continue from where they are. both MLG and WCS have had cheaters play and when they removed them they refused to replay the bracket, even though it was completely affected. so if scarlett wants to do right by the people who could lose to apoc, or anyone, then she needs to put her foot down, because history isnt on the players side.
While I agree with you that her playing the game is legitimizing the move in a way, she was in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If she didn't play the match it's extremely unlikely that they wouldn't just give apocalypse the boot and give her the spot. It's her profession, she has to do what she can to make money, and it's irresponsible of us as fans to accept that she would do something to lose money over making a stink about rules. If anything, I'd say it's more a responsibility of Acer management to rectify the issue on her behalf. They certainly would have more power over the tournament organizers than she would directly. Of course in my utopia the player speaking out would be the incorrect move, and it would be up to the organizers and the team to address it behind closed doors and then report it to us, which is kinda dumb too.
On October 25 2013 02:44 turdburgler wrote: i think the important thing to take away from this all is that scarlett has interacted more with fans/social media over the last 24 hours than she has in 3 months. the way for acer to build the scarlett brand is to piss her off constantly.
This is actually really interesting to me. I don't find any problem with it one way or another, but it's interesting. Scarlett is a very polarizing person based on the values of some people (not to get into right and wrong, that's not my point), so I understand a media-quiet attitude. She's likely the most popular foreigner right now though and that's with an extremely small amount of interaction. I'm not drawing any conclusions, it's just interesting to me.
Btw, anyone who wants to see more of Scarlett interacting with the community feel free to join GSL LR threads. You can sometimes expect to see her in there if kpop is involved ^^
but it defeats the whole purpose of a region qualifyer if you let one guy slide in. it would be unfair for all the other koreans and unfair for the region itself. on both points of views the other koreans would be like, "How come apoc got special treatment?". just cause he has a temp visa doesnt qualify. 80% of the other koreans can have a temp visa. I dont see how exiling mexico and quebec and then letting 1 korean slide is appropriate.heres another point of view. IEM had a 3 region qualifyer, and so did HSC. Do you see a player multi playing these tournaments? no because they are not in their respected regions. I can easily play in EU cause the lag isnt that bad, doesn't mean I'm going to part take in that region qualifyer. by letting a person slide in cause of a temp visa is defeating the purpose of region qualifyers, (cause i can go ahead and get a temp visa to somewhere in EU and win a qualifer and say I have a temp visa and I was planning to reside here in 2 weeks from now.) you might as well make it open so there be less people complaining.
I'm a scarlett fan but can't defend what she pulled yesterday. She definitely has no tact in the way she handles things a lot of times, but the bottom line is she didn't do this because apoc shouldn't play. She did this cause she felt her skype chat buddies got screwed. She makes the argument that polt should be allowed to play cause he's going to school here, but is adamant about apoc not being allowed to play because he's not a legal resident or staying here long term. Well it doesn't matter if polt is going to school here because he's not a legal resident either, but because she's buddies with polt and not apoc she pulls a protest against him.
Scarlett made a bad decision and fell on her sword and looked bad for the sake of her skype buddies. They should be ashamed and apologize to her for allowing herself to look bad for their sake. One of them should have talked some sense into her and told her not to do what she did last night for their sake. Given goswser's bm history I am not surprised to see he's one of the root causes of the issues last night. I blame her skype buddies more than her for the decisions she made last night.
Apoc broke the rules and so far no one had done anything about it, this created enough drama that it is much more likely to be looked at than before. Obviously not the most diplomatic way to do this, but I doubt it will have any long-term negative effect on her reputation or popularity. In fact, it might improve her reputation in the foreign scene, standing up for the small guy against Koreans who fly over for a weekend to attend a tournament not designed for them.
I'm a scarlett fan but can't defend what she pulled yesterday. She definitely has no tact in the way she handles things a lot of times, but the bottom line is she didn't do this because apoc shouldn't play. She did this cause she felt her skype chat buddies got screwed. She makes the argument that polt should be allowed to play cause he's going to school here, but is adamant about apoc not being allowed to play because he's not a legal resident or staying here long term. Well it doesn't matter if polt is going to school here because he's not a legal resident either, but because she's buddies with polt and not apoc she pulls a protest against him.
Scarlett made a bad decision and fell on her sword and looked bad for the sake of her skype buddies. They should be ashamed and apologize to her for allowing herself to look bad for their sake. One of them should have talked some sense into her and told her not to do what she did last night for their sake. Given goswser's bm history I am not surprised to see he's one of the root causes of the issues last night. I blame her skype buddies more than her for the decisions she made last night.
I disagree with your judgement, she was pissed-off because someone on a tourist visa plays in an NA-only qualifier. That is a whole kettle of fish different than someone who actually lives in the US, and has been living there for over a year. There's different shades of grey here, obviously, but I think that the distinction tourist visa vs. student and living in the US is quite large. I also don't really see if she would have responded differently if it would have been some other genuine NA player that would have been knocked-out, and she would have known about it. You're reading too much in the 'skype buddy' thing, and are drawing quite tentative conclusions about it.
I wasn't really professional what she did, but when she would have just played the matches and made a fuzz on twitter about it, the admins would have said 'ah well, too bad, too late now'.
Regarding recent things happening with IEM (spots from the NA qualifier going to some Korean instead of 2nd place NA, 2 spots from EU qualifiers going to Koreans - screwing over Illusion, Grubby and Nercio, and no explanation from IEM about this, despite promises), I can fully understand that players are getting pissed-off when Koreans on a tourist visa are getting NA- and EU-reserved spots.
I'm a scarlett fan but can't defend what she pulled yesterday. She definitely has no tact in the way she handles things a lot of times, but the bottom line is she didn't do this because apoc shouldn't play. She did this cause she felt her skype chat buddies got screwed. She makes the argument that polt should be allowed to play cause he's going to school here, but is adamant about apoc not being allowed to play because he's not a legal resident or staying here long term. Well it doesn't matter if polt is going to school here because he's not a legal resident either, but because she's buddies with polt and not apoc she pulls a protest against him.
Scarlett made a bad decision and fell on her sword and looked bad for the sake of her skype buddies. They should be ashamed and apologize to her for allowing herself to look bad for their sake. One of them should have talked some sense into her and told her not to do what she did last night for their sake. Given goswser's bm history I am not surprised to see he's one of the root causes of the issues last night. I blame her skype buddies more than her for the decisions she made last night.
I disagree with your judgement, she was pissed-off because someone on a tourist visa plays in an NA-only qualifier. That is a whole kettle of fish different than someone who actually lives in the US, and has been living there for over a year. There's different shades of grey here, obviously, but I think that the distinction tourist visa vs. student and living in the US is quite large. I also don't really see if she would have responded differently if it would have been some other genuine NA player that would have been knocked-out, and she would have known about it. You're reading too much in the 'skype buddy' thing, and are drawing quite tentative conclusions about it.
I wasn't really professional what she did, but when she would have just played the matches and made a fuzz on twitter about it, the admins would have said 'ah well, too bad, too late now'.
Regarding recent things happening with IEM (spots from the NA qualifier going to some Korean instead of 2nd place NA, 2 spots from EU qualifiers going to Koreans - screwing over Illusion, Grubby and Nercio, and no explanation from IEM about this, despite promises), I can fully understand that players are getting pissed-off when Koreans on a tourist visa are getting NA- and EU-reserved spots.
I can understand a player getting pissed off too. I cannot accept a player getting angry and pissing on the competition because they're mad. I said it in the other thread, but we cannot demand professionalism while accepting unprofessional actions. There are tactful ways to get your point across, and those methods are often infinitely more effective at convincing others that you are correct.
I'm a scarlett fan but can't defend what she pulled yesterday. She definitely has no tact in the way she handles things a lot of times, but the bottom line is she didn't do this because apoc shouldn't play. She did this cause she felt her skype chat buddies got screwed. She makes the argument that polt should be allowed to play cause he's going to school here, but is adamant about apoc not being allowed to play because he's not a legal resident or staying here long term. Well it doesn't matter if polt is going to school here because he's not a legal resident either, but because she's buddies with polt and not apoc she pulls a protest against him.
Scarlett made a bad decision and fell on her sword and looked bad for the sake of her skype buddies. They should be ashamed and apologize to her for allowing herself to look bad for their sake. One of them should have talked some sense into her and told her not to do what she did last night for their sake. Given goswser's bm history I am not surprised to see he's one of the root causes of the issues last night. I blame her skype buddies more than her for the decisions she made last night.
I disagree with your judgement, she was pissed-off because someone on a tourist visa plays in an NA-only qualifier. That is a whole kettle of fish different than someone who actually lives in the US, and has been living there for over a year. There's different shades of grey here, obviously, but I think that the distinction tourist visa vs. student and living in the US is quite large. I also don't really see if she would have responded differently if it would have been some other genuine NA player that would have been knocked-out, and she would have known about it. You're reading too much in the 'skype buddy' thing, and are drawing quite tentative conclusions about it.
I wasn't really professional what she did, but when she would have just played the matches and made a fuzz on twitter about it, the admins would have said 'ah well, too bad, too late now'.
Regarding recent things happening with IEM (spots from the NA qualifier going to some Korean instead of 2nd place NA, 2 spots from EU qualifiers going to Koreans - screwing over Illusion, Grubby and Nercio, and no explanation from IEM about this, despite promises), I can fully understand that players are getting pissed-off when Koreans on a tourist visa are getting NA- and EU-reserved spots.
I cannot accept a player getting angry and pissing on the competition because they're mad. I said it in the other thread, but we cannot demand professionalism while accepting unprofessional actions.
If anyone was pissing on the competition, it was Red Bull themselves. And they were the ones being unprofessional to begin with.
What Scarlett did was in my view a last resort measure, and a necessary one. I don't care one bit that she didn't play those last games properly and that they weren't casted. They were worthless games anyway, games that shouldn't even have been played in the first place. Better that she use them to create a bit of drama to avoid being tread on, and the whole matter being swept under the rug.
I'm a scarlett fan but can't defend what she pulled yesterday. She definitely has no tact in the way she handles things a lot of times, but the bottom line is she didn't do this because apoc shouldn't play. She did this cause she felt her skype chat buddies got screwed. She makes the argument that polt should be allowed to play cause he's going to school here, but is adamant about apoc not being allowed to play because he's not a legal resident or staying here long term. Well it doesn't matter if polt is going to school here because he's not a legal resident either, but because she's buddies with polt and not apoc she pulls a protest against him.
Scarlett made a bad decision and fell on her sword and looked bad for the sake of her skype buddies. They should be ashamed and apologize to her for allowing herself to look bad for their sake. One of them should have talked some sense into her and told her not to do what she did last night for their sake. Given goswser's bm history I am not surprised to see he's one of the root causes of the issues last night. I blame her skype buddies more than her for the decisions she made last night.
I disagree with your judgement, she was pissed-off because someone on a tourist visa plays in an NA-only qualifier. That is a whole kettle of fish different than someone who actually lives in the US, and has been living there for over a year. There's different shades of grey here, obviously, but I think that the distinction tourist visa vs. student and living in the US is quite large. I also don't really see if she would have responded differently if it would have been some other genuine NA player that would have been knocked-out, and she would have known about it. You're reading too much in the 'skype buddy' thing, and are drawing quite tentative conclusions about it.
I wasn't really professional what she did, but when she would have just played the matches and made a fuzz on twitter about it, the admins would have said 'ah well, too bad, too late now'.
Regarding recent things happening with IEM (spots from the NA qualifier going to some Korean instead of 2nd place NA, 2 spots from EU qualifiers going to Koreans - screwing over Illusion, Grubby and Nercio, and no explanation from IEM about this, despite promises), I can fully understand that players are getting pissed-off when Koreans on a tourist visa are getting NA- and EU-reserved spots.
I can understand a player getting pissed off too. I cannot accept a player getting angry and pissing on the competition because they're mad. I said it in the other thread, but we cannot demand professionalism while accepting unprofessional actions. There are tactful ways to get your point across, and those methods are often infinitely more effective at convincing others that you are correct.
This is tournaments screwing players over (see my examples above, but also look at the DeMuslim WCS NA idiocy, among other things), and when they get called out it is 'ah well, can't do anything now, now can we'. This was the only thing to force a reaction from a tournament, otherwise they would use the German DELLE principle, which resolves issues by not talking about them and just lets them be. (DELLE stands for 'Durch Einfach Liegen Lassen Erledigen') Sometimes bold moves are necessary, and since tournament organizers appear to screw-over local scenes left-and-right, and not really give a fuck, maybe it was time for a wake-up call. At least this time people are talking about it and forcing a response, unlike WCS and IEM.
EPT
