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On July 30 2013 23:43 Boucot wrote:Well, go Liquid ! Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:43 SinCitta wrote:On July 30 2013 23:29 Boucot wrote:On July 30 2013 23:27 SinCitta wrote:On July 30 2013 23:21 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:20 ibo422 wrote:On July 30 2013 23:17 Aeromi wrote:On July 30 2013 23:15 ibo422 wrote:
If I'm not wrong, Millenium needs one more win to secure a spot in the playoffs. They need two more wins. I see only +3 diff with acer and mill got the h2h. Apparently there is no head to head, it's map difference, number of map won. If you assume that because of my text, maybe it's wrong. I thought Millenium and Acer were even H2H, but in fact Millenium won both. I was confused because of 5-3 and 3-5. According to the rules, it's number of maps before H2H. So Millenium would be behind Acer and Liquid even though they have a positive record against both of them. Yeah. So if the CW ended 5-2, Millenium would have qualified, right? No, 5-3. If it ended 5-2, Millenium and Acer would have been tied but Acer won more maps than Millenium overall. That's a stupid rule tbh.
Yeah, noticed what you mean 30 sec after my post but too late for ninjaing you 
The whole ATC league is modeled after the Bundesliga, but maps won before H2H does not make any sense in SC2.
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On July 30 2013 23:46 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:45 20cts wrote:Axiom won against Karont3, Millenium lost. So the best solution depends on where you side I guess  It also depends on having and using a brain.
That's just unnecessarily rude. One can argue that a team that is not participating should not have an impact on the output.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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On July 30 2013 23:48 20cts wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:46 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 23:45 20cts wrote:Axiom won against Karont3, Millenium lost. So the best solution depends on where you side I guess It also depends on having and using a brain. That's just unnecessarily rude. One can argue that a team that is not participating should not have an impact on the output.
You are free to, it is just wrong.
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On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches
It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams.
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On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams.
You basically want to say "I think it is better to do the illogical and unfair deceision, because my team benefits from it", did I get it right?
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Now they should play both axiom-tl matches next.
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On July 30 2013 23:52 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams. You basically want to say "I think it is better to do the illogical and unfair deceision, because my team benefits from it", did I get it right?
No I say : " It's better to penalize 2 teams than the other 6." See the quoted text.
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On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams.
It's definitely something that can be discussed. But in my opinion it's better the way they did it. Mouz also lost to K3, but I still think the matches should count. Nullifying is straight up unfair to TL and Axiom, while keeping the results is fair since they all played and had the same chance against K3.
Edit: Otolia you are not punishing 6 teams instead of 2, the other 6 had the same chance. Nullifying would be punishing TL an Axiom for their good performance though.
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On July 30 2013 23:53 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:52 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams. You basically want to say "I think it is better to do the illogical and unfair deceision, because my team benefits from it", did I get it right? No I say : " It's better to penalize 2 teams than the other 6." See the quoted text.
That is not correct, you know it, you don't want to admit it. No point going on for me.
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On July 30 2013 23:54 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams. It's definitely something that can be discussed. But in my opinion it's better the way they did it. Mouz also lost to K3, but I still think the matches should count. Nullifying is straight up unfair to TL and Axiom, while keeping the results is fair since they all played and had the same chance against K3.
Which I am totally agreeing with. But the way I see it is the following : By keeping the results you put weight on what teams and players cannot control anymore while the contrary makes everyone more equal by giving them same chances to win in the second round. It's a tough call to make anyway so I don't judge to one who had to but I would have choose another solution were I the admin.
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On July 30 2013 23:53 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:52 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams. You basically want to say "I think it is better to do the illogical and unfair deceision, because my team benefits from it", did I get it right? No I say : " It's better to penalize 2 teams than the other 6." See the quoted text.
So if 6 teams had won against K3 you'd argue the other way around then? What if it had been a half and half situation? This seems a very arbitrary way of deciding things...
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On July 30 2013 23:55 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:53 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:52 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams. You basically want to say "I think it is better to do the illogical and unfair deceision, because my team benefits from it", did I get it right? No I say : " It's better to penalize 2 teams than the other 6." See the quoted text. That is not correct, you know it, you don't want to admit it. No point going on for me.
Oh dear, no! You got me. I have an opinion and this opinion is influencing my thinking.
You must be a genius ...
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Anyway, it's funny how close it is and how details such as how you remove K3 from the results ends up mattering so much.
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On July 30 2013 23:58 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 23:53 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:52 grs wrote:On July 30 2013 23:51 Otolia wrote:On July 30 2013 23:47 Musicus wrote:On July 30 2013 23:43 20cts wrote:
I don't understand what they did with Karont3. They should just cancel all their matches, even the ones played before the disband. I think it's okay since Karont3 played every team once, before they gave 5:0s for the remaining matches It's a solution. Nullifying all results would put everyone on the same level which is detrimental to the 2 teams who won, while keeping the results is detrimental to the remaining teams at various level (because of the different map score). I would argue that it's better to be detrimental to fewer teams. You basically want to say "I think it is better to do the illogical and unfair deceision, because my team benefits from it", did I get it right? No I say : " It's better to penalize 2 teams than the other 6." See the quoted text. So if 6 teams had won against K3 you'd argue the other way around then? What if it had been a half and half situation? This seems a very arbitrary way of deciding things...
Yes I would have argued the other way.
But more than that, it's always better to give the same chances in the future than to rely on past results and that's not arbitrary.
PS : Anyway, this isn't really the place to discuss this. We are just rehashing what was argued before.
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On July 31 2013 00:00 20cts wrote:
Anyway, it's funny how close it is and how details such as how you remove K3 from the results ends up mattering so much.
Yeah ATC is really exciting right now.
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On July 31 2013 00:02 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 00:00 20cts wrote:
Anyway, it's funny how close it is and how details such as how you remove K3 from the results ends up mattering so much. Yeah ATC is really exciting right now.
No 
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So team acer now definetely qualified for the playoffs because only axiom and team liquid can surpass them. Millenium has no games left and would have needed one more map to be ahead of team acer.
Millenium now the one to get 5th place if axiom wins 2 out of 3 and team liquid 1 out of 2 remaining matches.
(provided that Axiom and Team Liquid dont mess up their map score but at the moment they are well ahead, but millenium only neeeded 2 maps today to be qualified so apparently anything can happen)
Remaining matches:
Axiom vs Quantic
Axiom vs Liquid
Liquid vs Axiom
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On July 31 2013 00:04 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 00:02 Musicus wrote:On July 31 2013 00:00 20cts wrote:
Anyway, it's funny how close it is and how details such as how you remove K3 from the results ends up mattering so much. Yeah ATC is really exciting right now. No
Hey Mill isn't out, cheer up.
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On July 31 2013 00:08 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
So team acer now definetely qualified for the playoffs because only axiom and team liquid can surpass them. Millenium has no games left and would have needed one more map to be ahead of team acer.
Millenium now the one to fall out if axiom wins 2 out of 3 and tl 1 out of 2 remaining matches
Remaining matches:
Axiom vs Quantic
Axiom vs Liquid
Liquid vs Axiom
So if Axiom beats Quantic we could have Fantasy vs. Rain all over again.
+ Show Spoiler +No I'm not serious, and you conspiracy guys can have all the fun you want
If Axiom beats Quantic Karont3 will finish 7th with 8 default losses.
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EPT
