There's no such thing as a top tier foreign tourney competition wise anymore since the introduction of wcs. Europe never had a ton of koreans in their tourneys, so it's status quo there, but last MLG was the weakest level of competition since koreans started playing in them.
So yes, I don't think it's that impressive. A number of the top tier koreans could do the same if given the same opportunities. Foreign tourneys these day consist mainly of just koreans on foreign teams for the most part.
I'll list the notable opponents HyuN has beaten at each tournament since you're so stubborn.
DreamHack Stockholm - Puzzle, elfi, MC, NaNiwa, YugiOh, SaSe
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho last week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
You're stubborn. Why are you even watching this tournament? If HerO and MC aren't good players who is that's left? ^_^
I just have higher standards when it comes to throwing around the term top tier because that's a small elite class of players. I still have a great time watching tourneys.
Well, if you don't think HyuN, who is statistically the best Zerg in the world right now ( http://www.aligulac.com/ ), is top tier, who is?
he is statistically the best because he farms foreigners haha pay attention man... like we've been saying soulkey is probably the only top top tier zerg right now, life was a few months ago.
Completely overlooking the most consistent zerg ever in SYMBOL!
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho last week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
You're stubborn. Why are you even watching this tournament? If HerO and MC aren't good players who is that's left? ^_^
I just have higher standards when it comes to throwing around the term top tier because that's a small elite class of players. I still have a great time watching tourneys.
Well, if you don't think HyuN, who is statistically the best Zerg in the world right now ( http://www.aligulac.com/ ), is top tier, who is?
he is statistically the best because he farms foreigners haha pay attention man... like we've been saying soulkey is probably the only top top tier zerg right now, life was a few months ago.
Completely overlooking the most consistent zerg ever in SYMBOL!
yeah maybe i am.
idk maybe i'm not as well though
he's been in the RO8+ every GSL and has only fallen in the RO16 once which was to seed who won that GSL! And he reverse all killed LGIM :D
On July 27 2013 14:32 Elite_ wrote: [quote] Yes. You think consistently getting top 8 at every single top tier foreign tournament is easy?
There's no such thing as a top tier foreign tourney competition wise anymore since the introduction of wcs. Europe never had a ton of koreans in their tourneys, so it's status quo there, but last MLG was the weakest level of competition since koreans started playing in them.
So yes, I don't think it's that impressive. A number of the top tier koreans could do the same if given the same opportunities. Foreign tourneys these day consist mainly of just koreans on foreign teams for the most part.
I'll list the notable opponents HyuN has beaten at each tournament since you're so stubborn.
DreamHack Stockholm - Puzzle, elfi, MC, NaNiwa, YugiOh, SaSe
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho this week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
On July 27 2013 15:05 ssxsilver wrote:
On July 27 2013 15:03 scBaldwin wrote:
On July 27 2013 14:57 Baroninthetree wrote:
On July 27 2013 14:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On July 27 2013 14:50 lichter wrote: [quote]
YugiOh was in OSL. He is better than Jaedong.
Well jaedong is a curious case because of how awful zvp is. I wouldn't really consider him top tier, but he's still decent at the other matchups. However, it is hard to gauge jaedong cause he has a lot of success at foreign tourneys too playing lesser competition. He did ok in proleague but was never dominant there. Yugioh has his moments, but I've never considered him a top zerg ever even during his peaks.
srsly, who do you think is top tier zerg? Care to give a zerg rank in your mind?
soulkey.. life from 6 months ago.. not much else. not as many top top tier zergs as there are protoss and terran right now i think
So if you're struggling to name 5 better zergs than Hyun, then wouldn't that mean he's relatively top-tier... Mind you I think Soulkey is a distant 1st from the rest of the zergs, but I'd lump Hyun into the huge bunch of lesser zergs.
No, because there doesn't have to be an equal distribution of top tier players per race.
So there's only one top tier zerg in the entire SC2 community. David Kim must did a terrible job to this race.
dude.. you're really not understanding...
there's only 3-5 maybe of top top tier protoss and terran right now as well.. being at the highest level of play (innovation, first, soulkey) is just totally different than the level of the players you're familiar with in foreign tournaments.
I understand there's always a player better than all the others, like innovation, life soulkey did. But a top 3 zerg in the world is not a top tier player? you really need to refine your definition of top tier. Or maybe you mean the best.
no.. top tier is defined by level of skill, not your rank in the number of zergs.
the gap between soulkey and hyun is HUGE. this is why soulkey is a top top tier player and hyun just isnt. even if soulkey is #2 zerg in the world (he's not) this could still be valid just because of the gap between #1 and #2.
it just so happens that i believe there are currently a few more players at this top top tier for protoss and terran than zerg. this isnt a balance complaint, as the game is great right now, just an observation of how things happen to be now.
Not having followed BW much (just a little at the beginning, imagine my surprised to see it was still alive and kicking when I came back to the scene when SC2 was in Beta), I feel like this is a BW thing where at the end, Flash was sooo far ahead of everyone that really it was just Flash and Fantasy called top-tier and no one cared who was #3 (I'm sure other people will tell me how wrong I am on this...)
I also think HoTs is just so young, we don't have enough history to figure out who's consistently good to give solid rankings of players.
There's no such thing as a top tier foreign tourney competition wise anymore since the introduction of wcs. Europe never had a ton of koreans in their tourneys, so it's status quo there, but last MLG was the weakest level of competition since koreans started playing in them.
So yes, I don't think it's that impressive. A number of the top tier koreans could do the same if given the same opportunities. Foreign tourneys these day consist mainly of just koreans on foreign teams for the most part.
I'll list the notable opponents HyuN has beaten at each tournament since you're so stubborn.
DreamHack Stockholm - Puzzle, elfi, MC, NaNiwa, YugiOh, SaSe
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho last week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
You're stubborn. Why are you even watching this tournament? If HerO and MC aren't good players who is that's left? ^_^
I just have higher standards when it comes to throwing around the term top tier because that's a small elite class of players. I still have a great time watching tourneys.
Well, if you don't think HyuN, who is statistically the best Zerg in the world right now ( http://www.aligulac.com/ ), is top tier, who is?
he is statistically the best because he farms foreigners haha pay attention man... like we've been saying soulkey is probably the only top top tier zerg right now, life was a few months ago.
Completely overlooking the most consistent zerg ever in SYMBOL!
#IEM wanted to give you 3 back to back quarter final games but because of time constraints only 2 possible. @ROOTnathanias covers others
Too bad, but I'm sure today and tomorrow will have some great games. As long as the venue is free of technical issues and Nathanias casts every second series, they should finish by Saturday.
There's no such thing as a top tier foreign tourney competition wise anymore since the introduction of wcs. Europe never had a ton of koreans in their tourneys, so it's status quo there, but last MLG was the weakest level of competition since koreans started playing in them.
So yes, I don't think it's that impressive. A number of the top tier koreans could do the same if given the same opportunities. Foreign tourneys these day consist mainly of just koreans on foreign teams for the most part.
I'll list the notable opponents HyuN has beaten at each tournament since you're so stubborn.
DreamHack Stockholm - Puzzle, elfi, MC, NaNiwa, YugiOh, SaSe
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho this week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
On July 27 2013 15:05 ssxsilver wrote:
On July 27 2013 15:03 scBaldwin wrote:
On July 27 2013 14:57 Baroninthetree wrote:
On July 27 2013 14:56 Canucklehead wrote: [quote]
Well jaedong is a curious case because of how awful zvp is. I wouldn't really consider him top tier, but he's still decent at the other matchups. However, it is hard to gauge jaedong cause he has a lot of success at foreign tourneys too playing lesser competition. He did ok in proleague but was never dominant there. Yugioh has his moments, but I've never considered him a top zerg ever even during his peaks.
srsly, who do you think is top tier zerg? Care to give a zerg rank in your mind?
soulkey.. life from 6 months ago.. not much else. not as many top top tier zergs as there are protoss and terran right now i think
So if you're struggling to name 5 better zergs than Hyun, then wouldn't that mean he's relatively top-tier... Mind you I think Soulkey is a distant 1st from the rest of the zergs, but I'd lump Hyun into the huge bunch of lesser zergs.
No, because there doesn't have to be an equal distribution of top tier players per race.
So there's only one top tier zerg in the entire SC2 community. David Kim must did a terrible job to this race.
dude.. you're really not understanding...
there's only 3-5 maybe of top top tier protoss and terran right now as well.. being at the highest level of play (innovation, first, soulkey) is just totally different than the level of the players you're familiar with in foreign tournaments.
I understand there's always a player better than all the others, like innovation, life soulkey did. But a top 3 zerg in the world is not a top tier player? you really need to refine your definition of top tier. Or maybe you mean the best.
no.. top tier is defined by level of skill, not your rank in the number of zergs.
the gap between soulkey and hyun is HUGE. this is why soulkey is a top top tier player and hyun just isnt. even if soulkey is #2 zerg in the world (he's not) this could still be valid just because of the gap between #1 and #2.
it just so happens that i believe there are currently a few more players at this top top tier for protoss and terran than zerg. this isnt a balance complaint, as the game is great right now, just an observation of how things happen to be now.
Not having followed BW much (just a little at the beginning, imagine my surprised to see it was still alive and kicking when I came back to the scene when SC2 was in Beta), I feel like this is a BW thing where at the end, Flash was sooo far ahead of everyone that really it was just Flash and Fantasy called top-tier and no one cared who was #3 (I'm sure other people will tell me how wrong I am on this...)
I also think HoTs is just so young, we don't have enough history to figure out who's consistently good to give solid rankings of players.
You really want to go by wcs points when hyun is farming wcs points from foreign tourneys and wcs na?
Yes. You think consistently getting top 8 at every single top tier foreign tournament is easy?
There's no such thing as a top tier foreign tourney competition wise anymore since the introduction of wcs. Europe never had a ton of koreans in their tourneys, so it's status quo there, but last MLG was the weakest level of competition since koreans started playing in them.
So yes, I don't think it's that impressive. A number of the top tier koreans could do the same if given the same opportunities. Foreign tourneys these day consist mainly of just koreans on foreign teams for the most part.
I'll list the notable opponents HyuN has beaten at each tournament since you're so stubborn.
DreamHack Stockholm - Puzzle, elfi, MC, NaNiwa, YugiOh, SaSe
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho last week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
You're stubborn. Why are you even watching this tournament? If HerO and MC aren't good players who is that's left? ^_^
I just have higher standards when it comes to throwing around the term top tier because that's a small elite class of players. I still have a great time watching tourneys.
Well, if you don't think HyuN, who is statistically the best Zerg in the world right now ( http://www.aligulac.com/ ), is top tier, who is?
I have to agree with everyone else(or most) here. HyuN is a great player no doubt but I would still put SK a tier or two above him. Most of his games are against foreigners or middle tier players or on the low high end tier which is why they look so impressive.
Gumiho and Jaedong and possibly violet are the only 3 on that list I would classify as tough wins.
soO was OSL Ro16, HerO was the WCS America Season 1 champion, YugiOh is in the third round of Code A after falling out of the OSL Ro32 after losing to Flash and Soulkey, NaNiwa was the DreamHack Stockholm runner-up, LucifroN is the best foreigner right now, TheStC 29:00 http://www.twitch.tv/nathanias/b/432882074 pretty top tier taking a ~50 minute game off of Jaedong.
Did you see soo's games vs gumiho last week? Naniwa is good for a foreigner. Yugioh, I've already said is just ok. Hero got smashed at wcs finals. Lucifron is the most overrated foreigner and always chokes at lans compared to the hype people give him. Have you seen the stc play lately? He lost to huk for god's sake last week. He's been on a steady decline for a while now and was never top tier in the first place anyways.
You're stubborn. Why are you even watching this tournament? If HerO and MC aren't good players who is that's left? ^_^
I just have higher standards when it comes to throwing around the term top tier because that's a small elite class of players. I still have a great time watching tourneys.
Well, if you don't think HyuN, who is statistically the best Zerg in the world right now ( http://www.aligulac.com/ ), is top tier, who is?
he is statistically the best because he farms foreigners haha pay attention man... like we've been saying soulkey is probably the only top top tier zerg right now, life was a few months ago.
Completely overlooking the most consistent zerg ever in SYMBOL!
On July 27 2013 15:44 mikumegurine wrote: wow again lemme say, those fans gotta sit on the hard ground for several hours, waiting through all the delays (and watching great games)
where the chairs at??!
There's bleachers... but I guess about 5x as many people showed up as expected to watch.
On July 27 2013 15:44 mikumegurine wrote: wow again lemme say, those fans gotta sit on the hard ground for several hours, waiting through all the delays (and watching great games)
where the chairs at??!
There's bleachers... but I guess about 5x as many people showed up as expected to watch.
On July 27 2013 15:45 bo1b wrote: Hyun couldn't have such a high aligulac rating if all he was doing was beating foreigners. His win-rate simply isn't high enough.
EPT
Puzzle, 
YugiOh, 
TheStC, 
