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On July 25 2013 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 15:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:42 Emzeeshady wrote:
I really really really really don't like sOs Ah you just hate protoss in general though  Yes but I especially hate sOs I dislike sOs for all the reasons I hate Protoss. They rely on gimmicky gameplay to wins. I do respect the Protoss players that try to play straight up (Rain, Creator) but the vast majority make me want to vomit. LoL SOS went for a macro timing in all these games. The only times where he's had to constantly allin was against soulkey
Would "straight up," be colossus deathball? Because honestly, that makes me like Protoss LESS, not more. And I play Toss.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 25 2013 15:57 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 25 2013 15:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:42 Emzeeshady wrote:
I really really really really don't like sOs Ah you just hate protoss in general though Yes but I especially hate sOs I dislike sOs for all the reasons I hate Protoss. They rely on gimmicky gameplay to wins. I do respect the Protoss players that try to play straight up (Rain, Creator) but the vast majority make me want to vomit. LoL SOS went for a macro timing in all these games. The only times where he's had to constantly allin was against soulkey Would "straight up," be colossus deathball? Because honestly, that makes me like Protoss LESS, not more. And I play Toss.
Protoss "straight up" is the most boring type of play. I bet WoL BL-Infestor every game is "straight up".
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Also someone needs to make the OSL thread
I am driving from 6pm - 7pm KST so I shouldn't
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On July 25 2013 15:57 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 25 2013 15:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:42 Emzeeshady wrote:
I really really really really don't like sOs Ah you just hate protoss in general though Yes but I especially hate sOs I dislike sOs for all the reasons I hate Protoss. They rely on gimmicky gameplay to wins. I do respect the Protoss players that try to play straight up (Rain, Creator) but the vast majority make me want to vomit. LoL SOS went for a macro timing in all these games. The only times where he's had to constantly allin was against soulkey Would "straight up," be colossus deathball? Because honestly, that makes me like Protoss LESS, not more. And I play Toss.
Exactly, people see anything they aren't used to coming out of toss and label it gimmicky. Would they rather see the WoL strats for the rest of HotS? I know I would be happy to never see a colossus again.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 25 2013 16:01 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 15:57 IntoTheheart wrote:On July 25 2013 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 25 2013 15:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:42 Emzeeshady wrote:
I really really really really don't like sOs Ah you just hate protoss in general though Yes but I especially hate sOs I dislike sOs for all the reasons I hate Protoss. They rely on gimmicky gameplay to wins. I do respect the Protoss players that try to play straight up (Rain, Creator) but the vast majority make me want to vomit. LoL SOS went for a macro timing in all these games. The only times where he's had to constantly allin was against soulkey Would "straight up," be colossus deathball? Because honestly, that makes me like Protoss LESS, not more. And I play Toss. Straight up just means you don't have to rely on deceiving your opponent to win. I would even say Parting's immortal all ins he was doing back in the day were straight up matches because everyone knew they were coming. Straight up doesn't mean standard, people seem to be misunderstanding me.
Deceit (and conversely, scouting) is part of strategy
I really don't understand you
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On July 25 2013 15:58 Emzeeshady wrote:
I don't think Curious prepared very well for this series. He knows what type of a player sOs is and he should have been ready for weird shit like this.
I feel like Kespa players/teams are so much better at preparing for their opponent.
Not necessarily. Just look at the OSL. I'd say it's more like Curious's ZvP is statistically his weakest HotS matchup on top of Curious just not really being very strong in HotS in general. Not to mention sOs is one of the best PvP and PvZ players in the world.
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Pretty much how I wanted all series to go. :D
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On July 25 2013 15:58 Emzeeshady wrote:
I don't think Curious prepared very well for this series. He knows what type of a player sOs is and he should have been ready for weird shit like this.
I feel like Kespa players/teams are so much better at preparing for their opponent.
Ehhh..... Not really. sOs is one of the stronger Kespa players in terms of coming up with specific builds. But there are plenty of Kespa players that seem to have no game plan at all. And some eSF players have pretty neat builds. So I am not sure it is fair to say Kespa players are so much better at preparing.
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On July 25 2013 15:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 15:54 DidYuhim wrote:On July 25 2013 15:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:49 DidYuhim wrote:On July 25 2013 15:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:45 Raambo11 wrote:
Void Ray/HT is ridiculously strong, nothing really counters it Swarmhosts do pretty well. Swarmhosts don't kill void rays. I would never have guessed I don't really know how hard are you trolling right now. There're two big problems with SH's in ZvP: locust don't attack air and you need to hit a critical mass of SHs to make them useful. This build abuses both of these. It hits before you can get a lot of anti-air and SHs. I'm not trolling, just not arguing with people whose best argument is "Swarmhosts don't hit air"
People just want SH to be a staple unit. They are mad cuz it turns out to be a very situational one which could only be effective in certain occasions with strict requirements (read:gimmicky)
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On July 25 2013 15:58 Emzeeshady wrote:
I don't think Curious prepared very well for this series. He knows what type of a player sOs is and he should have been ready for weird shit like this.
I feel like Kespa players/teams are so much better at preparing for their opponent.
a myth. Technically, what's the difference between a kespa team and an esf team? I mean yeah, sometimes teammates and coaches would help someone to prepare for an important game, for a snipe in proleague etc., but what exactly stops esf teams from doing the same? You know the answer.
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On July 25 2013 16:04 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 16:02 lichter wrote:On July 25 2013 16:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:57 IntoTheheart wrote:On July 25 2013 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 25 2013 15:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:42 Emzeeshady wrote:
I really really really really don't like sOs Ah you just hate protoss in general though Yes but I especially hate sOs I dislike sOs for all the reasons I hate Protoss. They rely on gimmicky gameplay to wins. I do respect the Protoss players that try to play straight up (Rain, Creator) but the vast majority make me want to vomit. LoL SOS went for a macro timing in all these games. The only times where he's had to constantly allin was against soulkey Would "straight up," be colossus deathball? Because honestly, that makes me like Protoss LESS, not more. And I play Toss. Straight up just means you don't have to rely on deceiving your opponent to win. I would even say Parting's immortal all ins he was doing back in the day were straight up matches because everyone knew they were coming. Straight up doesn't mean standard, people seem to be misunderstanding me. Deceit (and conversely, scouting) is part of strategy I really don't understand you U don't seem to  I hope this helps if you missed it earlier. Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 14:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 14:33 lichter wrote:On July 25 2013 14:31 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 14:27 lichter wrote:On July 25 2013 14:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 14:21 bo1b wrote:On July 25 2013 14:20 Elite_ wrote:On July 25 2013 14:18 blobrus wrote:On July 25 2013 14:10 Emzeeshady wrote:Great, True and sOs going to cheese better players out of Code S...  In what world is Curious better than sOs? This world. Are you new to SC2 this year or have you always considered an nonstandard player better than a standard player? Nonstandard < standard is a fallacy I really hope the sc2 community grows out of, especially since out of tvz there really isn't a standard style of play which accounts for pretty much everything. It isn't just about playing "standard" as that had no real meaning in a few matchups atm and there is always multiple ways to play out a macro game. It is that sOs doesn't win games by outplaying his opponent but rather by surprising him with weird strategies and tech switches. This makes him a worse player in my mind then someone like Curious who will win 90% with straight up better mechanics and skill. Real Time Strategy Strategy If you want pure mechanics play Dance Dance Revolution That isn't what I want, I enjoy the strategy part of RTS games. Imo there is a difference between doing something because it is smart and doing it because it is so weird the other player won;t expect it/know how to respond to it. Thats what separates players like Mvp and a player like sOs. I love Mvp but how is 2raxing Protosses smarter than the crazy shit sOs does? Since when does Mvp only 2rax Protosses. I can only think of like 3 games. Anyway it is the perfect build and series preparation that sets Mvp apart. Let me give you two scenarios to show you what I mean by smart strategy vs weird/cheesy strategy. Scenario 1Player A sees a heavy commitment to Roaches and decides to build bunkers and tanks as a reaction. Scenario 2Player B sees a heavy commitment to Roaches so he takes a hidden base in the top right and sacs his third. Player A has decided to use his decision making to do a response that will defend perfectly if executed properly. Player B has decided on a defence that will work perfectly if he gets lucky and if the other player doesn't scout the hidden base. In my opinion Player A is better because he can win without tricks and randomness.
zzzzzzzzzzz
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Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions on how they prefer the game to be played. Hating on certain styles, though, is not really fair. Anything that ends up winning should be accepted as a legitimate strategy.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 25 2013 16:04 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 16:02 lichter wrote:On July 25 2013 16:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:57 IntoTheheart wrote:On July 25 2013 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 25 2013 15:49 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 15:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 25 2013 15:42 Emzeeshady wrote:
I really really really really don't like sOs Ah you just hate protoss in general though Yes but I especially hate sOs I dislike sOs for all the reasons I hate Protoss. They rely on gimmicky gameplay to wins. I do respect the Protoss players that try to play straight up (Rain, Creator) but the vast majority make me want to vomit. LoL SOS went for a macro timing in all these games. The only times where he's had to constantly allin was against soulkey Would "straight up," be colossus deathball? Because honestly, that makes me like Protoss LESS, not more. And I play Toss. Straight up just means you don't have to rely on deceiving your opponent to win. I would even say Parting's immortal all ins he was doing back in the day were straight up matches because everyone knew they were coming. Straight up doesn't mean standard, people seem to be misunderstanding me. Deceit (and conversely, scouting) is part of strategy I really don't understand you U don't seem to I hope this helps if you missed it earlier. Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 14:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 14:33 lichter wrote:On July 25 2013 14:31 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 14:27 lichter wrote:On July 25 2013 14:25 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 25 2013 14:21 bo1b wrote:On July 25 2013 14:20 Elite_ wrote:On July 25 2013 14:18 blobrus wrote:On July 25 2013 14:10 Emzeeshady wrote:Great, True and sOs going to cheese better players out of Code S... In what world is Curious better than sOs? This world. Are you new to SC2 this year or have you always considered an nonstandard player better than a standard player? Nonstandard < standard is a fallacy I really hope the sc2 community grows out of, especially since out of tvz there really isn't a standard style of play which accounts for pretty much everything. It isn't just about playing "standard" as that had no real meaning in a few matchups atm and there is always multiple ways to play out a macro game. It is that sOs doesn't win games by outplaying his opponent but rather by surprising him with weird strategies and tech switches. This makes him a worse player in my mind then someone like Curious who will win 90% with straight up better mechanics and skill. Real Time Strategy Strategy If you want pure mechanics play Dance Dance Revolution That isn't what I want, I enjoy the strategy part of RTS games. Imo there is a difference between doing something because it is smart and doing it because it is so weird the other player won;t expect it/know how to respond to it. Thats what separates players like Mvp and a player like sOs. I love Mvp but how is 2raxing Protosses smarter than the crazy shit sOs does? Since when does Mvp only 2rax Protosses. I can only think of like 3 games. Anyway it is the perfect build and series preparation that sets Mvp apart. Let me give you two scenarios to show you what I mean by smart strategy vs weird/cheesy strategy. Scenario 1Player A sees a heavy commitment to Roaches and decides to build bunkers and tanks as a reaction. Scenario 2Player B sees a heavy commitment to Roaches so he takes a hidden base in the top right and sacs his third. Player A has decided to use his decision making to do a response that will defend perfectly if executed properly. Player B has decided on a defence that will work perfectly if he gets lucky and if the other player doesn't scout the hidden base. In my opinion Player A is better because he can win without tricks and randomness.
I did see it, but it doesn't make any sense to compare sOs' builds (which are easy to scout, not proxied, and not always all-in) to a hidden third. If you can come up with a more analogous comparison I will continue debating that matter with you.
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If it was up to emzeeshady there would be only 2 races.
Protoss is basically designed as a gimmicky race. Their raw power capacity is garbage. The basic units (zealots/stalkers/immortals/whatever) all get murdered in straight up even supply fights with terran or zerg standard units.
You can obviously just win if you are straight up better than your opponent but you need to use every trick protoss has to win against even level players, which is why protoss struggle at the highest level. Good players don't fall for that shit.
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