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Norway25712 Posts
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On June 18 2013 19:44 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:43 Boonbag wrote:On June 18 2013 19:40 Scarecrow wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 Angel[BTL] wrote:
Why did they change the groups format to BO1? This for me it seems a really bad decision and more of a coin-flip. And this means that more koreans will start to migrate to european and american tournaments. I guess this is good in the long run. -.- yes more Koreans will go overseas because they have more of a chance in Bo1 vs Flash and co. than Bo3. Totally logical. Bo1's fine, yugioh played really well and deserved the win and then Flash did his thing. I find it a lot more tense watching this than normal BoX's ofc its much more tense really changes the game and that's good that way tournament isn't linear borefest and upsets can happen more Implying SC2 needs more upsets?
Sjow should move to Korea.
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 18 2013 19:46 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:37 Thrillz wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Terran underpowered according to Flash It's weird, because Terran has the least representation this season, with 8. Only INnoVation and Flash are big threats. But Terran is doing well elsewhere. Race with highest potential, but needs insane mechanical ability and spot on game-read. Ofcourse on the very best level, Terran looks strong as hell. Doesn't mean rest of the world can compete and play Terran at that level :x Zerg has highest hypothetical potential imo. You see how much a player like Life was ahead of his peers with his trademark ling micro, how some players have creep spread that wins them games and players who barely miss an inject no matter how much pressure they're under. We've never seen a Zerg come close to knitting all these talents that make Zergs identifiable together at once into one, terrifying Zergy specimen. Good points, but while there are mechanically things for Zerg, Terran has no access to, Terran units are ranged and with stim eventually faster than lots of units on the field. Theoretical potential would show that you can individually move as small groups of units as possible middst battle. Terran defines maximizing damage output while minimizing damage taken. You can focus fire, spread, split, stutter only being attacked parts and you can switch targets with effectively all widow mines that are on the field to get detonations you need. So... yeah, while Zerg has some interesting mechanial ability, I still think its less demanding and if you don't want to agree with that, I think we can agree on less rewarding for mechanical ability. Can we? A well micro'd Zerg army will never accomplish the same as a well controlled Terran army for its cost.
And protoss has blink!
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On June 18 2013 19:46 Wombat_NI wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Savior more ahead of his time strategically than the perfect mechanical Zerg? I recall some article which said for example his Muta micro was far below subsequent Zergs who came after him
Which of tastosis is saying stupid unrelated stuff ? :p
sAviOr low apm etc etc
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On June 18 2013 19:45 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:44 Highwinds wrote:On June 18 2013 19:42 Waxangel wrote:On June 18 2013 19:40 vovinam wrote:
just tune in...
more ppl watching gsl stream than ogn??????? Tastosis yo not giving doa and montecristo a chance I admit doacristo aren't as knowledgable as artosis, but they are pretty funny and have good chemistry for the WCS Korea finals didn't the OGN stream have like 5-10x more viewers than the GOMTV stream throughout the whole weekend? I always watched the OGN one then but for some reason this feels different. the OGN stream was featured on all the blizzard websites for the wcs season finals and the gom stream wasn't mentioned anywhere.
Ah i didn't know that. Interesting.
Find it funny the OGN English casters dont have their own computer to see the game but Artosis does and it isnt gom's tournament.
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On June 18 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:46 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:37 Thrillz wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Terran underpowered according to Flash It's weird, because Terran has the least representation this season, with 8. Only INnoVation and Flash are big threats. But Terran is doing well elsewhere. Race with highest potential, but needs insane mechanical ability and spot on game-read. Ofcourse on the very best level, Terran looks strong as hell. Doesn't mean rest of the world can compete and play Terran at that level :x Zerg has highest hypothetical potential imo. You see how much a player like Life was ahead of his peers with his trademark ling micro, how some players have creep spread that wins them games and players who barely miss an inject no matter how much pressure they're under. We've never seen a Zerg come close to knitting all these talents that make Zergs identifiable together at once into one, terrifying Zergy specimen. Good points, but while there are mechanically things for Zerg, Terran has no access to, Terran units are ranged and with stim eventually faster than lots of units on the field. Theoretical potential would show that you can individually move as small groups of units as possible middst battle. Terran defines maximizing damage output while minimizing damage taken. You can focus fire, spread, split, stutter only being attacked parts and you can switch targets with effectively all widow mines that are on the field to get detonations you need. So... yeah, while Zerg has some interesting mechanial ability, I still think its less demanding and if you don't want to agree with that, I think we can agree on less rewarding for mechanical ability. Can we? A well micro'd Zerg army will never accomplish the same as a well controlled Terran army for its cost. And protoss has blink!
lol
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On June 18 2013 19:44 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:39 xN.07)MaK wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 Dodgin wrote:On June 18 2013 19:33 Lorning wrote:
I dont get why Yugioh still engaged after the lag. Flash knew it was coming and could think about it for atleast 5 min tbh I think if he decided to not attack he would get tons of shit from the community for taking advantage of the lag so he felt like he had to go through with his attack. when the game dropped the tanks had already hit his units before. He had the numbers to overrun that, but the drop made Flash plan everything out: scan to check the actual numbers, focus fire the banes, etc. Even if the tanks had attacked before, it's not the same. Arguing that the drop benefited Yugioh because he could retreat, to me is very far from reality. He had a big army supply advantage and the surprise factor. With no drop, Flash would have no time to scan and focus fire, and maybe the game would have ended there. Flash would've scanned regardless, Yugioh took a hit on some roaches whilst setting up to push before the drop, alerting Flash to the attack. Saying Flash needed time to plan to focus the banes is ridiculous. He'd do it instantly, it's not like it's rocket science and he's defended enough of these attacks to react pretty much instantly.
Flash is human, and it is very likely that his attention was not there at that moment. He could be macroing then suddenly hears the tank shot, moves his screen to his 3rd, and by that time, everything is messed up.
Even if this was not the case, I find ridiculous to argue that the drop benefited Yugioh if anything. The guy invested a lot into an attack to end the game, and for some reason, your enemy has 5 minutes to prepare for an attack he didn't know it was coming until 5 seconds before. Does Flash take the same decisions in 5 seconds than in 5 minutes?. If yes, then I have nothing to add.
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On June 18 2013 19:46 Wombat_NI wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Savior more ahead of his time strategically than the perfect mechanical Zerg? I recall some article which said for example his Muta micro was far below subsequent Zergs who came after him
The emphasis was on crushing everyone and being ahead of its time, embodieng the species.
Also, SK not letting get fooled. yay
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On June 18 2013 19:46 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:37 Thrillz wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Terran underpowered according to Flash It's weird, because Terran has the least representation this season, with 8. Only INnoVation and Flash are big threats. But Terran is doing well elsewhere. Race with highest potential, but needs insane mechanical ability and spot on game-read. Ofcourse on the very best level, Terran looks strong as hell. Doesn't mean rest of the world can compete and play Terran at that level :x Zerg has highest hypothetical potential imo. You see how much a player like Life was ahead of his peers with his trademark ling micro, how some players have creep spread that wins them games and players who barely miss an inject no matter how much pressure they're under. We've never seen a Zerg come close to knitting all these talents that make Zergs identifiable together at once into one, terrifying Zergy specimen. Good points, but while there are mechanically things for Zerg, Terran has no access to, Terran units are ranged and with stim eventually faster than lots of units on the field. Theoretical potential would show that you can individually move as small groups of units as possible middst battle. Terran defines maximizing damage output while minimizing damage taken. You can focus fire, spread, split, stutter only being attacked parts and you can switch targets with effectively all widow mines that are on the field to get detonations you need. So... yeah, while Zerg has some interesting mechanial ability, I still think its less demanding and if you don't want to agree with that, I think we can agree on less rewarding for mechanical ability. Can we? A well micro'd Zerg army will never accomplish the same as a well controlled Terran army for its cost.
It is atm because imo Zerg have never had to stretch and achieve the full gamut of Zerg skills simultaneously to post results.
I'm not hopping on the Terran tears bandwagon by any means, but that race just got harder and harder to play as WoL progressed, as patches came in, as maps got bigger and bigger and took away many of the map features that were conducive to Terran play.
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On June 18 2013 19:45 Undead1993 wrote:
lol 3k on ogn and 16k on gomtv, even though it's ogn's tourney? that's crazy
the gom fanbase is really loyal.
the only thing ogn is lacking is a better caster than montecristo.
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On June 18 2013 19:49 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:46 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:37 Thrillz wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Terran underpowered according to Flash It's weird, because Terran has the least representation this season, with 8. Only INnoVation and Flash are big threats. But Terran is doing well elsewhere. Race with highest potential, but needs insane mechanical ability and spot on game-read. Ofcourse on the very best level, Terran looks strong as hell. Doesn't mean rest of the world can compete and play Terran at that level :x Zerg has highest hypothetical potential imo. You see how much a player like Life was ahead of his peers with his trademark ling micro, how some players have creep spread that wins them games and players who barely miss an inject no matter how much pressure they're under. We've never seen a Zerg come close to knitting all these talents that make Zergs identifiable together at once into one, terrifying Zergy specimen. Good points, but while there are mechanically things for Zerg, Terran has no access to, Terran units are ranged and with stim eventually faster than lots of units on the field. Theoretical potential would show that you can individually move as small groups of units as possible middst battle. Terran defines maximizing damage output while minimizing damage taken. You can focus fire, spread, split, stutter only being attacked parts and you can switch targets with effectively all widow mines that are on the field to get detonations you need. So... yeah, while Zerg has some interesting mechanial ability, I still think its less demanding and if you don't want to agree with that, I think we can agree on less rewarding for mechanical ability. Can we? A well micro'd Zerg army will never accomplish the same as a well controlled Terran army for its cost. It is atm because imo Zerg have never had to stretch and achieve the full gamut of Zerg skills simultaneously to post results. I'm not hopping on the Terran tears bandwagon by any means, but that race just got harder and harder to play as WoL progressed, as patches came in, as maps got bigger and bigger and took away many of the map features that were conducive to Terran play.
I think its perfectly fine that its hard to play. No one that posts here will ever (probably) lose because of high imbalances. They are not on a high enough level. Whenever I think about balance losing in a ladder game, I try to think what INnoVation would have done to my opponent and I realize , all my fault, all my mistakes.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On June 18 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:46 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 Type|NarutO wrote:On June 18 2013 19:37 Thrillz wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Terran underpowered according to Flash It's weird, because Terran has the least representation this season, with 8. Only INnoVation and Flash are big threats. But Terran is doing well elsewhere. Race with highest potential, but needs insane mechanical ability and spot on game-read. Ofcourse on the very best level, Terran looks strong as hell. Doesn't mean rest of the world can compete and play Terran at that level :x Zerg has highest hypothetical potential imo. You see how much a player like Life was ahead of his peers with his trademark ling micro, how some players have creep spread that wins them games and players who barely miss an inject no matter how much pressure they're under. We've never seen a Zerg come close to knitting all these talents that make Zergs identifiable together at once into one, terrifying Zergy specimen. Good points, but while there are mechanically things for Zerg, Terran has no access to, Terran units are ranged and with stim eventually faster than lots of units on the field. Theoretical potential would show that you can individually move as small groups of units as possible middst battle. Terran defines maximizing damage output while minimizing damage taken. You can focus fire, spread, split, stutter only being attacked parts and you can switch targets with effectively all widow mines that are on the field to get detonations you need. So... yeah, while Zerg has some interesting mechanial ability, I still think its less demanding and if you don't want to agree with that, I think we can agree on less rewarding for mechanical ability. Can we? A well micro'd Zerg army will never accomplish the same as a well controlled Terran army for its cost. And protoss has blink!
We can also 'manually charge individual Zealots'.
A serious response to me calling him out on saying that Protoss = A-move race. Crux of my point being even in the hands of bots Protoss has less micro potential than the other races, there is literally not much you can do to push yourself in that sense.
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On June 18 2013 19:48 xN.07)MaK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:44 Scarecrow wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 xN.07)MaK wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 Dodgin wrote:On June 18 2013 19:33 Lorning wrote:
I dont get why Yugioh still engaged after the lag. Flash knew it was coming and could think about it for atleast 5 min tbh I think if he decided to not attack he would get tons of shit from the community for taking advantage of the lag so he felt like he had to go through with his attack. when the game dropped the tanks had already hit his units before. He had the numbers to overrun that, but the drop made Flash plan everything out: scan to check the actual numbers, focus fire the banes, etc. Even if the tanks had attacked before, it's not the same. Arguing that the drop benefited Yugioh because he could retreat, to me is very far from reality. He had a big army supply advantage and the surprise factor. With no drop, Flash would have no time to scan and focus fire, and maybe the game would have ended there. Flash would've scanned regardless, Yugioh took a hit on some roaches whilst setting up to push before the drop, alerting Flash to the attack. Saying Flash needed time to plan to focus the banes is ridiculous. He'd do it instantly, it's not like it's rocket science and he's defended enough of these attacks to react pretty much instantly. Flash is human, and it is very likely that his attention was not there at that moment. He could be macroing then suddenly hears the tank shot, moves his screen to his 3rd, and by that time, everything is messed up. Even if this was not the case, I find ridiculous to argue that the drop benefited Yugioh if anything. The guy invested a lot into an attack to end the game, and for some reason, your enemy has 5 minutes to prepare for an attack he didn't know it was coming until 5 seconds before. Does Flash take the same decisions in 5 seconds than in 5 minutes?. If yes, then I have nothing to add.
He clearly was looking there, given that Yugioh attacked a widow man right before that, which prompted Flash to siege his tanks.
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On June 18 2013 19:49 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:45 Undead1993 wrote:
lol 3k on ogn and 16k on gomtv, even though it's ogn's tourney? that's crazy the gom fanbase is really loyal. the only thing ogn is lacking is a better caster than montecristo.
Montecristo is fine
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Soulkey's killed like 15 overlords this game
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On June 18 2013 19:50 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 19:48 xN.07)MaK wrote:On June 18 2013 19:44 Scarecrow wrote:On June 18 2013 19:39 xN.07)MaK wrote:On June 18 2013 19:35 Dodgin wrote:On June 18 2013 19:33 Lorning wrote:
I dont get why Yugioh still engaged after the lag. Flash knew it was coming and could think about it for atleast 5 min tbh I think if he decided to not attack he would get tons of shit from the community for taking advantage of the lag so he felt like he had to go through with his attack. when the game dropped the tanks had already hit his units before. He had the numbers to overrun that, but the drop made Flash plan everything out: scan to check the actual numbers, focus fire the banes, etc. Even if the tanks had attacked before, it's not the same. Arguing that the drop benefited Yugioh because he could retreat, to me is very far from reality. He had a big army supply advantage and the surprise factor. With no drop, Flash would have no time to scan and focus fire, and maybe the game would have ended there. Flash would've scanned regardless, Yugioh took a hit on some roaches whilst setting up to push before the drop, alerting Flash to the attack. Saying Flash needed time to plan to focus the banes is ridiculous. He'd do it instantly, it's not like it's rocket science and he's defended enough of these attacks to react pretty much instantly. Flash is human, and it is very likely that his attention was not there at that moment. He could be macroing then suddenly hears the tank shot, moves his screen to his 3rd, and by that time, everything is messed up. Even if this was not the case, I find ridiculous to argue that the drop benefited Yugioh if anything. The guy invested a lot into an attack to end the game, and for some reason, your enemy has 5 minutes to prepare for an attack he didn't know it was coming until 5 seconds before. Does Flash take the same decisions in 5 seconds than in 5 minutes?. If yes, then I have nothing to add. He clearly was looking there, given that Yugioh attacked a widow man right before that, which prompted Flash to siege his tanks.
Even if that was the case, what I won't accept is that the drop benefited Yugioh, as someone argued.
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EPT
