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[Up/Down] Group C WCS KR 2013 Season 2 - Page 34

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 30 2013 12:39 GMT
#661
On May 30 2013 21:35 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:34 Dodgin wrote:
first how could you lose to mkp twice I almost hope you lose now ;/

saying that as if it's shameful to lose to MKP TvP, even in his slump mkp can still play it solidly


losing to prime players is shameful regardless of the circumstances
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
May 30 2013 12:39 GMT
#662
On May 30 2013 21:35 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:21 TheBB wrote:
                      1st      2nd      3rd    
-----------------------------------------------
Hurricane 58.73% 41.27% 0.00%
First 41.27% 26.15% 32.59%
MarineKing 0.00% 32.59% 67.41%
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

Erm... this ain't right.

That makes sense because if all three games are played and it doesn't go to another tiebreaker then the person in first will be 2-0 and the person in last would be 0-2.

Yes, but it CAN go to a tiebreaker. Those numbers are supposed to be accounted for, but they aren't.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3823 Posts
May 30 2013 12:39 GMT
#663
On May 30 2013 21:37 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:33 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:27 eGoRama wrote:
The crying is just unbelievable cause of one game, and ofc cause this is MKP. If this was Bang it would be - ermm, okay, he lost to timing and was unprepared


The discussion is because of the proposed Warp Prism buff. If that wasn't on the table no one would be saying anything.


In this situation it really doesn't matter. If you have no idea that it's coming you're not gonna stop it, whether the prism has speed or not. Taking this game as a serious argument against the speed buff is not very intelligent.


It's just an example of the larger argument.

The problem with buffing the Warp Prism the way Blizzard is suggesting is that it buffs gimmicky Protoss all in play way more than it helps them in standard play the way they would like.

Blizzard wants to buff Protoss slightly and in a way that makes them more exciting to watch. I'm all for that. Buffing them in a way that promotes more 1-2 base all ins is not the right way do that.


Well, that's something that their balance testing will have to show. This game however really shouldn't matter in that argument.


It definitely should matter, but as with every balance discussion, one game doesn't decide anything.

I'm of the opinion that if they implemented the Warp Prism buff we'd just end up seeing a lot more games like Hurricane/Marineking which might bring Protoss overall win rates up but doesn't actually solve any of the other major issues with the race and definitely doesn't make them more fun to watch.

In other words, I see it as just more Soul Train style balancing.

You can see those games without the prism buff. We just did. The prism speed has little to no particular effect on that specific build. It is therefore not evidence for or against that change.
Elite_
Profile Joined June 2012
United States4259 Posts
May 30 2013 12:40 GMT
#664
There's 7 maps in the map pool... Why of all maps are they playing on the same map they were earlier?
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54785 Posts
May 30 2013 12:40 GMT
#665
On May 30 2013 21:39 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:35 opterown wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:34 Dodgin wrote:
first how could you lose to mkp twice I almost hope you lose now ;/

saying that as if it's shameful to lose to MKP TvP, even in his slump mkp can still play it solidly


losing to prime players is shameful regardless of the circumstances

such bad manner, dodgin
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
imallinson
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3482 Posts
May 30 2013 12:40 GMT
#666
On May 30 2013 21:39 TheBB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:35 imallinson wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:21 TheBB wrote:
                      1st      2nd      3rd    
-----------------------------------------------
Hurricane 58.73% 41.27% 0.00%
First 41.27% 26.15% 32.59%
MarineKing 0.00% 32.59% 67.41%
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

Erm... this ain't right.

That makes sense because if all three games are played and it doesn't go to another tiebreaker then the person in first will be 2-0 and the person in last would be 0-2.

Yes, but it CAN go to a tiebreaker. Those numbers are supposed to be accounted for, but they aren't.

Ahhh. Yeah something is definitely broken then.
Liquipedia
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
May 30 2013 12:41 GMT
#667
last time you gave it to me, so this time i'll give it to you. it's only fair.




i see what they did there.
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 30 2013 12:41 GMT
#668
On May 30 2013 21:36 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:33 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:30 Godwrath wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:26 Clazziquai10 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:25 Fusilero wrote:
You know what, I agree guys. This two year old build is overpowered which is why it's almost never done in PvT and fell out of favour rapidly after mid 2011 in PvZ.


Except that protoss didn't have nexus cannon in 2011.


So if terran does fuck up like that they actually deserve to win the game by counterattacking and flying their buildings to a corner?


What fuck up ? Having his whole army in front ? Not scouting a drop is mostly about luck for terran.

It's a silly build, a complete gamble tho.


Not scouting. Protoss loses the game if they don't know what's going on. Zerg loses the game if they don't know. Terran should lose too.


Oh yes please, tell me how he should had scouted that a sentry drop was coming that doesn't look like other thousand builds.


Using that energy thing on one of your CCs that gives you scouting information. If you see a robo and 7 gates it's not an immortal all in, you can't afford that. Can only be one thing.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
eGoRama
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria1542 Posts
May 30 2013 12:41 GMT
#669
On May 30 2013 21:39 Brett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:37 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:33 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:30 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:27 eGoRama wrote:
The crying is just unbelievable cause of one game, and ofc cause this is MKP. If this was Bang it would be - ermm, okay, he lost to timing and was unprepared


The discussion is because of the proposed Warp Prism buff. If that wasn't on the table no one would be saying anything.


In this situation it really doesn't matter. If you have no idea that it's coming you're not gonna stop it, whether the prism has speed or not. Taking this game as a serious argument against the speed buff is not very intelligent.


It's just an example of the larger argument.

The problem with buffing the Warp Prism the way Blizzard is suggesting is that it buffs gimmicky Protoss all in play way more than it helps them in standard play the way they would like.

Blizzard wants to buff Protoss slightly and in a way that makes them more exciting to watch. I'm all for that. Buffing them in a way that promotes more 1-2 base all ins is not the right way do that.


Well, that's something that their balance testing will have to show. This game however really shouldn't matter in that argument.


It definitely should matter, but as with every balance discussion, one game doesn't decide anything.

I'm of the opinion that if they implemented the Warp Prism buff we'd just end up seeing a lot more games like Hurricane/Marineking which might bring Protoss overall win rates up but doesn't actually solve any of the other major issues with the race and definitely doesn't make them more fun to watch.

In other words, I see it as just more Soul Train style balancing.

You can see those games without the prism buff. We just did. The prism speed has little to no particular effect on that specific build. It is therefore not evidence for or against that change.


Brett, you said you give up on this :D
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10167 Posts
May 30 2013 12:42 GMT
#670
On May 30 2013 21:38 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2013 21:36 Godwrath wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:33 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:30 Godwrath wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:28 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:26 Clazziquai10 wrote:
On May 30 2013 21:25 Fusilero wrote:
You know what, I agree guys. This two year old build is overpowered which is why it's almost never done in PvT and fell out of favour rapidly after mid 2011 in PvZ.


Except that protoss didn't have nexus cannon in 2011.


So if terran does fuck up like that they actually deserve to win the game by counterattacking and flying their buildings to a corner?


What fuck up ? Having his whole army in front ? Not scouting a drop is mostly about luck for terran.

It's a silly build, a complete gamble tho.


Not scouting. Protoss loses the game if they don't know what's going on. Zerg loses the game if they don't know. Terran should lose too.


Oh yes please, tell me how he should had scouted that a sentry drop was coming that doesn't look like other thousand builds.

scan ;p

tbh mkp just got unlucky, with units on lowground and badly timed production cycle and map spawns. that wouldn't have happened most of the time


I don't know, some people should play terran before doing that kind of silly statements like "no scout", i don't even think the build is op, just a big high risk high reward gamble, but calling that a "fuck up" is just nonsense ;p
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
May 30 2013 12:42 GMT
#671
Yeaaaaaah First!
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#672
If First wins, we have another tiebreaker right?
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#673
OMG
3WAY TIE?!?!
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#674
A second immortal was so greedy by hurricane
Glorious SEA doto
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54785 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#675
oh hell no plz no second tiebreaker
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#676
Does the second tiebreaker start the "sudden death" timer all over? :o If it's MKP vs Tear again, does it mean Tear is out if he loses to MKP?
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16127 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#677
This really looks like Rock/Paper/Scissors right now doesn't it with the three players we have.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#678
goddamn it First.

when the hell do you expect me to write my seminar paper?
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
DrPandaPhD
Profile Joined November 2011
5188 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#679
sigh.. you had that game if you didnt go for a second immortal -.- killed so much stuff, didnt have to be so greedy
리노크 👑
Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
May 30 2013 12:43 GMT
#680
Poll: Recommend Hurricane vs First (Tie-Breaker)?

If you have time (4)
 
50%

Yes (2)
 
25%

No (2)
 
25%

8 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Hurricane vs First (Tie-Breaker)?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
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