Small tip for the next time: opterown basically makes the template for all threads: http://goo.gl/qc4eD You just have to copy them and create a thread out of them.
On May 29 2013 07:22 Zarahtra wrote: It's like terrans have just stopped splitting :/ Been seeing so sloppy splits lately, just banking on hellbats/wms...
On May 29 2013 07:22 Zarahtra wrote: It's like terrans have just stopped splitting :/ Been seeing so sloppy splits lately, just banking on hellbats/wms...
Isn't he playing from korea? Or am I way wrong?
Good point, he's probably in korea yeah. Still it's not just him, so many terrans just run back these days and hope for good vms hit(or maybe they're aiming with VMs, hard to tell).
On May 29 2013 07:22 Zarahtra wrote: It's like terrans have just stopped splitting :/ Been seeing so sloppy splits lately, just banking on hellbats/wms...
Isn't he playing from korea? Or am I way wrong?
Unless someone know something different, yes he is.
I wonder why Major chose that 3rd instead of the one in front of his main. Even if Ian expands to the opposite side, that expansion pattern still favors the Terran as drops are triple as effective.
On May 29 2013 07:41 stuchiu wrote: On reflection Major is the superior player so maybe he wanted to play safe to roach bane all-ins and took the far 3rd.
Yeah, could very well be.
For those who know their shit about build orders; how much will a siege tank or two slow your build order down? Is it enough so that it's worth losing games to silly all ins? Can the tanks be useful later in the game, or will they just get picked off by some Mutalisks?
On May 29 2013 07:41 stuchiu wrote: On reflection Major is the superior player so maybe he wanted to play safe to roach bane all-ins and took the far 3rd.
Yeah, could very well be.
For those who know their shit about build orders; how much will a siege tank or two slow your build order down? Is it enough so that it's worth losing games to silly all ins? Can the tanks be useful later in the game, or will they just get picked off by some Mutalisks?
There are two major limiting factors to the seige tank. The gas and the tech lab. With Hots, only 1 tech lab is generally made in the early game and it ts for the rax to upgrade stim, combat shields and shells. Everything else the Terran wants in a TvZ: Marines, Mines, and medivacs all come from reactors. So if you go for a tank, you have to somehow fit in a second tech lab on the factory and delay the widow mines. If you delay the mines, you delay the taking of a third on certain maps or any follow up aggression after the hellion reaper phase.
The other problem is gas. It costs 125 gas, with the tech lab it's +25 gas. That is the equivalent of 1 reactor and 4 mines. Offensively, 4 mines and a pack of marines and leftover hellions and reapers can put heavy pressure on the Zerg, having the chance to cut down the creep spread early and forces the zerg to drone less. All of this pressure is moot as Zerg can easily drone to 75 if a tank is made instead of those 4 mines.
And finally, TvZ is in a lot of ways about Rhythm control. TvZ is an extremely mechanical matchup when playing MMMM vs. Muta ling bling. Terran needs to hit every depo, make every ruond, postion every mine andconstnatly drop, runby and pressure the front. Zerg needs to hit every inject, spread creep, defuse mines, runby, counter, stop drops, threaten muta harass and possibly burrow banelings.
So the first timing or aggression can cause a domino effect. If you get that first pressure of and you trade evenly or even slightly behind, you can take that tempo control and keep forcing the zerg back until they eventually crumble. The same can happen if Zerg takes control of the game first. The best example of this is Soulkey vs Innovation in PL. In game 1. Soulkey got the tempo and won that with his mechanics. Innovation was able to match Soulkey in game 2, and eventually tore him down as Soulkey went up to 6 base.
A lot of the reason Zergs are roach bane busting is because they are trying to say, this shit is too greedy. You have triple cc, double upgrades and you get map control and aggressive potential. Make a tank or die in a bust. Terrans are saying, fuck tanks, I got mines.
On May 29 2013 07:33 Zarahtra wrote: What is the deal with that depo infront of his wall? He did it too on the other map...
rally point to that supply depot bogus style man D:
Gratz on the win. What is the purpose of that though, rather than just rally there?
hm u can set a camara hotkey to that depot, and it makes it easier to defend mutli progned attacks to the 3rd or to go drop if u wanna do 2 attacks at the same time
So with a fourth down and up a base, after killing collosus Neeb manages to get half his army forcefielded and stormed, then proceeds to pull 30 scvs after throwing down a ghost academy against zealot storm + nearly full energy sentries down a very narrow choke. This decision making shows how nervous he is I think, if he wanted to do a timing he had to do it with 3/3 and ghost/cloak. His decision making that game was brutal despite how well he played until that engagement.
Alright, i got my fourth up, ghost academy is on the way, i have vikings to deal with the collosi, and i have a sizeable bio-army to deal with aggression.
On May 29 2013 08:05 thekaas wrote: Alright, i got my fourth up, ghost academy is on the way, i have vikings to deal with the collosi, and i have a sizeable bio-army to deal with aggression.
Better pull my SCVs.
3 bad engagements.
1. He chooses a narrow choke for himself and big arc for opponent. 2. Forgets medivacs can pick up units when blocked+stormed+chargelots. 3. Drops main without any clue why.
Neeb shows that he is the inferior player. His micro is obviously 1 huge hot key. He struggled with seperating a group of marauders to hunt down templar. Very very slow execution on drop (loading slowly and sending medivacs even slower).
I guess this is why people complain about WCS America. Hopefully better plays will come.
On May 29 2013 08:22 titan55 wrote: Neeb shows that he is the inferior player. His micro is obviously 1 huge hot key. He struggled with seperating a group of marauders to hunt down templar. Very very slow execution on drop (loading slowly and sending medivacs even slower).
I guess this is why people complain about WCS America. Hopefully better plays will come.
XY vs demu is nice postermatch. Both pretty slick. Question : if u loose now, ur out of premier but in challenger again?
On May 29 2013 08:07 stuchiu wrote: A lot of Terrans are giving up on late game TvP and just pulling all their scvs for the 3 base win.
I wouldn;t say giving up. More like trying to capitalize on Protoss weakness before storm.
I think he got overzealous, trying to end the game prematurely. Pulling workers and going for that timing is a very fine art, and the engagement must be done carefully
On May 29 2013 08:22 titan55 wrote: Neeb shows that he is the inferior player. His micro is obviously 1 huge hot key. He struggled with seperating a group of marauders to hunt down templar. Very very slow execution on drop (loading slowly and sending medivacs even slower).
I guess this is why people complain about WCS America. Hopefully better plays will come.
XY vs demu is nice postermatch. Both pretty slick. Question : if u loose now, ur out of premier but in challenger again?
No you go to the group stage, but you can't advance directly to Premier through the bracket if you lose here. After this round, you play another Bo3 against the losers of the Ro16, and winner makes Premier, loser falls to the groups.
Once in the group stage, 4th place is completely eliminated from WCS, 3rd place in put into Challenger, and top 2 make it to Premier.
On May 29 2013 07:08 Jknighty wrote: Demuslim on last? Come on MLG, throw us British Demu fans a bone.
I'm disappointed by this as well... Could they not have just played this one first so that some of Britain could watch it. That game's going to be like 3AM now TT.
On May 29 2013 08:22 titan55 wrote: Neeb shows that he is the inferior player. His micro is obviously 1 huge hot key. He struggled with seperating a group of marauders to hunt down templar. Very very slow execution on drop (loading slowly and sending medivacs even slower).
I guess this is why people complain about WCS America. Hopefully better plays will come.
XY vs demu is nice postermatch. Both pretty slick. Question : if u loose now, ur out of premier but in challenger again?
No you go to the group stage, but you can't advance directly to Premier through the bracket. Once in the group stage, 4th place is completely eliminated from WCS, 3rd place in put into Challenger, and top 2 make it to Premier.
You can advance to Premiere League through the Challenger League bracket. The winner of each bracket group advances to Premiere League (8 players) and the top two from each group in Challenger Group Stage advances (16 players), which would yield 24 players to put back into Premiere League.
Casting seems a bit...dry, and I really think Axslav could improve a lot with a speech therapist, his speech impediment is really irritating sometimes. Quality of play is a bit hard to adjust to after WCS EU, but it's early days yet, can't wait to see Demuslim!
lol before everybody goes ape-shit "TVP MECH IS VIABLE!!!" remember that this is most likely either a 3-base timing, and even if it isn't Theognis has the definite economic advantage, he could probably win with bio anyways.
On May 29 2013 09:02 ZenithM wrote: I'm not really convinced by Mech in TvP :p The same army value in bio-ghost would have ended the game right there :D
I liked MVP contain tanks/vikings/bunkers/marines. works great!
On May 29 2013 09:02 Zheryn wrote: Mech is so freaking strong in TvP, I don't know how to possibly beat this.
Not really, at certain point the toss just walks over you, even if you have emps and tons of tanks.
Could've held there had he not sent all his hellbats to the 5th. You need them to block off the immortals, they massacre tanks sooo badly.
I think, seeing this stormrape+collisi... toss on 2 base will get beaten by a tankcontain (mech or biomech), but after 3 base... u get raped
Colossi actually suck tbh and against those storms I feel theognis was just microing badly, or maybe rather being slightly to hasty. But when the toss gets like 6+ immortals, 6+ archons, sprinkled in storms and chargelots and it just means a lot lot lot of pain. If you can keep trading it is in the terran's favour since hellbats are pretty good in low econ.
I really don't know what theognis was thinking. You can beat those armies with what he has but his positioning and choice of battles have been really weird.
On May 29 2013 09:02 Zheryn wrote: Mech is so freaking strong in TvP, I don't know how to possibly beat this.
Not really, at certain point the toss just walks over you, even if you have emps and tons of tanks.
Could've held there had he not sent all his hellbats to the 5th. You need them to block off the immortals, they massacre tanks sooo badly.
I think, seeing this stormrape+collisi... toss on 2 base will get beaten by a tankcontain (mech or biomech), but after 3 base... u get raped
Once they get double or triple robo going, it's hard as hell to find the right army comp...
This seems like a significant problem with mech in general (thinking of TvZ and TvP). Mech units are slow and expensive units to produce, not strong relatively and the mech player, past a certain point, has to play extremely reactionary.
On May 29 2013 09:15 Toadvine wrote: Hm, so the Archon is the one Protoss ground unit that's actually good against Hellbats. Useful thing to know.
It's not like you don't make archons anyway.
Well, personally I rarely get Archons specifically, mostly just recycle energy-less Templar. Seems like just making them straight up is a good choice against mech.
I wouldn't use game 2 as a game to say mech doesn't work, if you actually watch that game back you'll see theognis' positioning was very questionable and in some instances he had his army either too split or too clumped which allowed state to engage in the perfect places to either not take maximum damage or pick it off from one side (zerg can do this too).
He was trading really well against the heavy robo comp, but where he had so many bad engagements he eventually got ran over.
Really sucks to watch games like that because it's obvious that mech has the potential to be viable if Blizzard only wanted it to be.
Instead the meta is doomed to be "maek marine" and run them in circles. TvP was one of the most boring match-ups in WOL and the only thing that changed is that you have the MSC and occasionally some hellbats to tank. It's getting old.
On May 29 2013 09:15 Toadvine wrote: Hm, so the Archon is the one Protoss ground unit that's actually good against Hellbats. Useful thing to know.
It's not like you don't make archons anyway.
Well, personally I rarely get Archons specifically, mostly just recycle energy-less Templar. Seems like just making them straight up is a good choice against mech.
Oh yeah, I see what you mean, you're right.
I still don't get why people go mech in TvP. The good units in Theognis composition are hellbats, vikings and ghosts, which you make in bio TvP anyway. Tanks on the other hand suck ass. The only reason you would make them is to hold positions and stuff, but they don't even do that, Protoss has enough muscle to crush a sieged army cost efficiently.
On May 29 2013 09:15 Toadvine wrote: Hm, so the Archon is the one Protoss ground unit that's actually good against Hellbats. Useful thing to know.
It's not like you don't make archons anyway.
Well, personally I rarely get Archons specifically, mostly just recycle energy-less Templar. Seems like just making them straight up is a good choice against mech.
Oh yeah, I see what you mean, you're right.
I still don't get why people go mech in TvP. The good units in Theognis composition are hellbats, vikings and ghosts, which you make in bio TvP anyway. Tanks on the other hand suck ass. The only reason you would make them is to hold positions and stuff, but they don't even do that, Protoss has enough muscle to crush a sieged army cost efficiently.
Bio. Still the way to go. :D
It is very good as timing attacks or if the 3rd isn't so defensive. If you can get into an econ lead and just keep trading hellbats for toss gas(since zlots get raped if archons/storms dont massacre the hellbats), they eventually break.
On May 29 2013 09:20 Qikz wrote: I wouldn't use game 2 as a game to say mech doesn't work, if you actually watch that game back you'll see theognis' positioning was very questionable and in some instances he had his army either too split or too clumped which allowed state to engage in the perfect places to either not take maximum damage or pick it off from one side (zerg can do this too).
He was trading really well against the heavy robo comp, but where he had so many bad engagements he eventually got ran over.
The thing is, State wasn't playing that well either. What you essentially said is that if Theognis had been playing far better than he can, against already quite a low-tier opponent, he could have won with mech :D
Flash can probably beat State with Reaper-Viking, that doesn't make that composition a viable way to play TvP :/
On May 29 2013 09:20 Bagi wrote: Really sucks to watch games like that because it's obvious that mech has the potential to be viable if Blizzard only wanted it to be.
Instead the meta is doomed to be "maek marine" and run them in circles. TvP was one of the most boring match-ups in WOL and the only thing that changed is that you have the MSC and occasionally some hellbats to tank. It's getting old.
Well, from a Protoss perspective, HotS added more all-ins, and made the thing that causes us to play so passively (medivacs) even better at doing so. I doubt it's going to change.
On May 29 2013 09:20 Bagi wrote: Really sucks to watch games like that because it's obvious that mech has the potential to be viable if Blizzard only wanted it to be.
Instead the meta is doomed to be "maek marine" and run them in circles. TvP was one of the most boring match-ups in WOL and the only thing that changed is that you have the MSC and occasionally some hellbats to tank. It's getting old.
Well, from a Protoss perspective, HotS added more all-ins, and made the thing that causes us to play so passively (medivacs) even better at doing so. I doubt it's going to change.
I agree and its quite baffling to me how far they went with their buffs to bio.
But I would imagine even protoss players agree I think mech could make the match-up way more interesting. Protoss could actually play the aggressive part with blink and warp prisms. Even skytoss is a viable way to play against mech. The whole mech TvP meta is nearly unexplored because Blizzard disencourages it by refusing to give the siege tank its long overdue buff.
On May 29 2013 09:20 Qikz wrote: I wouldn't use game 2 as a game to say mech doesn't work, if you actually watch that game back you'll see theognis' positioning was very questionable and in some instances he had his army either too split or too clumped which allowed state to engage in the perfect places to either not take maximum damage or pick it off from one side (zerg can do this too).
He was trading really well against the heavy robo comp, but where he had so many bad engagements he eventually got ran over.
The thing is, State wasn't playing that well either. What you essentially said is that if Theognis had been playing far better than he can, against already quite a low-tier opponent, he could have won with mech :D
Flash can probably beat State with Reaper-Viking, that doesn't make that composition a viable way to play TvP :/
It may not be fully viable, but if people can show that it can sort of work at the pro level maybe work nearly to the state of being viable if we're going to use that word against Toss, maybe Blizzard will buff it. If people just ignore it completely and say it's not possible, Blizzard will look and say that needs too much work.
Theognis wasn't playing the best he could have and he certainly could have played better that game.
On May 29 2013 09:33 teddyoojo wrote: time for demuslim to get owned
hmm.. xy and demuslim dont really have many tvt's in hots yet. Agilugac says 60 demu/40 XY but both didnt have topterrans in there results tho.
Demuslim looked pretty shaky in his first round match against Maker but he said he didnt sleep the night before and was really nervous. Hopefully he has that all under control this time. As for XY, the only TvT I've seen from him was in the qualifiers versus Center, where he held his own for a while but couldn't keep up. If Demuslim plays like he did in round 1 he'll lose. If he plays like he does on stream it should be a really good match.
If DeMuslim can play up to his normal level he should be fine against XY. That's just the problem though . . . last time he played WCS he almost lost to Maker, a guy who he is like 25-0 against on ladder. Pretty sure he's the HerO of foreigners when it comes to nerves. I hope he can overcome!
On May 29 2013 09:20 Bagi wrote: Really sucks to watch games like that because it's obvious that mech has the potential to be viable if Blizzard only wanted it to be.
Instead the meta is doomed to be "maek marine" and run them in circles. TvP was one of the most boring match-ups in WOL and the only thing that changed is that you have the MSC and occasionally some hellbats to tank. It's getting old.
Well, from a Protoss perspective, HotS added more all-ins, and made the thing that causes us to play so passively (medivacs) even better at doing so. I doubt it's going to change.
I agree and its quite baffling to me how far they went with their buffs to bio.
But I would imagine even protoss players agree I think mech could make the match-up way more interesting. Protoss could actually play the aggressive part with blink and warp prisms. Even skytoss is a viable way to play against mech. The whole mech TvP meta is nearly unexplored because Blizzard disencourages it by refusing to give the siege tank its long overdue buff.
Hey, I really like playing against mech, it's like the only time as a Protoss in sc2 where you can actually spread your army around the map and not have it all get owned piecemeal. And you actually get to expand aggressively and harass, tons of fun. I am totally in favor of a Tank buff, although with free Siege, I think it could introduce some very nasty bio/tank all-ins. That 2 base bio/tank push Mvp does in TvP looks quite strong with current tanks.
Damn, that engagement in the middle of the map went about as badly as it possibly could have done for DeMusliM... really hope he can pull it back from here.
On May 29 2013 09:51 Badfatpanda wrote: XY is pretty good So happy to see some of his matches cast.
He's also supposed to be one of the Chinese players pretty high up on the Korean ladder right? Top 50 or something?
He finished 3rd at WCS China last year. I remember being there and cheering for him so that the finals could be a TvZ rather than a ZvZ. Sadly he fell short, and Toodming 9 pooled twice in the finals :p
On May 29 2013 09:51 Badfatpanda wrote: XY is pretty good So happy to see some of his matches cast.
He's also supposed to be one of the Chinese players pretty high up on the Korean ladder right? Top 50 or something?
He finished 3rd at WCS China last year. I remember being there and cheering for him so that the finals could be a TvZ rather than a ZvZ. Sadly he fell short, and Toodming 9 pooled twice in the finals :p
I thought it was Top that got 3rd. Didn't he say that in his WCS America interview?
On May 29 2013 09:51 Badfatpanda wrote: XY is pretty good So happy to see some of his matches cast.
He's also supposed to be one of the Chinese players pretty high up on the Korean ladder right? Top 50 or something?
He finished 3rd at WCS China last year. I remember being there and cheering for him so that the finals could be a TvZ rather than a ZvZ. Sadly he fell short, and Toodming 9 pooled twice in the finals :p
On May 29 2013 09:51 Badfatpanda wrote: XY is pretty good So happy to see some of his matches cast.
He's also supposed to be one of the Chinese players pretty high up on the Korean ladder right? Top 50 or something?
He finished 3rd at WCS China last year. I remember being there and cheering for him so that the finals could be a TvZ rather than a ZvZ. Sadly he fell short, and Toodming 9 pooled twice in the finals :p
I thought it was Top that got 3rd. Didn't he say that in his WCS America interview?
Yeah, you're right, XY got 4th. My memory fails me
On May 29 2013 09:58 Absentia wrote: Does Demuslim not like playing mech? He seems like a forever bio guy (ala Polt),
yup almost as stubborned as Polt
Nah I see him play mech all the time on ladder!
well when you see his mech... it's like he's fooling around doing so many crucial mistakes strategy wise. I've seen like 2mech games out of 50 tvt from him on stream :o
I don't get it, I had 100% won for XY when he completely ended the cloaked banshees and stopped demuslim from getting his natural massacring his marines and taking the widow mine. Then he just... made OCs?
On May 29 2013 10:09 Fusilero wrote: I don't get it, I had 100% won for XY when he completely ended the cloaked banshees and stopped demuslim from getting his natural massacring his marines and taking the widow mine. Then he just... made OCs?
He had lost 25 workers at that point . . . It was a worker advantage to Demuslim 50-25
I couldn't quite figure out how Demu was able to kill so many workers... the banshees didn't seem to get a whole lot done, but then it turned out XY had lost a fair few.
Much better play by Demu there, even if he was lucky that XY didn't wipe him out with all those hellions and then played incredi-greedy.
DeMuslim better not choke on game 3. All of the hype surrounding him is ridiculous and I really hope its true. The first 2 games say otherwise but I still have hope.
XY lost to many workers and was supplyblocked/not building workers for quite some time. I think he just built the mass OCs because he had overmins even after losing so many scvs...
On May 29 2013 10:10 RookUK wrote: I couldn't quite figure out how Demu was able to kill so many workers... the banshees didn't seem to get a whole lot done, but then it turned out XY had lost a fair few.
Much better play by Demu there, even if he was lucky that XY didn't wipe him out with all those hellions and then played incredi-greedy.
It looked like he shut it down and secured himself from the banshees yet he somehow ended up losing so many workers in spite of having vikings and turrets out I dunno if XY screwed it or demuslim was just that good at harassing.
if he had attack with his hellion when demu had 1tank/3marines. That was just gg but he didn't commit since he probably had not scan after eating the 1st tank shot :'(
On May 29 2013 10:11 BlackPanther wrote: DeMuslim better not choke on game 3. All of the hype surrounding him is ridiculous and I really hope its true. The first 2 games say otherwise but I still have hope.
I'm a fan of Demuslim, but seeing these WCS games I have to say that he just seems way too nervous compared to his play on ladder. If he can barely take out XY here, who he beats regularly (similar to Maker) on ladder, then his chances against TheSTC next round are almost zero.
He has to win the battle against himself first before he can win the battle for Premier league. So far he's losing that fight.
On May 29 2013 10:11 BlackPanther wrote: DeMuslim better not choke on game 3. All of the hype surrounding him is ridiculous and I really hope its true. The first 2 games say otherwise but I still have hope.
I'm a fan of Demuslim, but seeing these WCS games I have to say that he just seems way too nervous compared to his play on ladder. If he can barely take out XY here, who he beats regularly (similar to Maker) on ladder, then his chances against TheSTC next round are almost zero.
He has to win the battle against himself first before he can win the battle for Premier league. So far he's losing that fight.
He beats XY regularly? I didn't know he was playing NA, he mostly ladders on Korea. I would also favor XY against TheStC at the moment.
On May 29 2013 10:09 Bagration wrote: This build is shit....
He fell behind 50 supply in a mirror without any major engagements. It's like he wasn't even trying
He lost like 25 workers early on...
Kinda hard not to play from behind when you have half the economy of your opponent, huh?
You call getting 5 OCs off of 2 factories standard? Yes, he did deal with the cloaked banshees pretty poorly considering that he scouted it, but his opening put him ahead, and the banshees only evened it out if anything.
Getting 5 OCs is great for minerals, but when a player goes mech, the bottleneck is gas, not minerals. He had nearly 1k minerals, but no gas, and could only make hellions. It was just a bad build.
It's so fucking frustrating watching hellbat vs hellbat when there's stream lag. Stream lags, skips, and boom, 20 workers are dead. Fuck, missing all the action
On May 29 2013 10:22 stuchiu wrote: Well, thank you hellbats for lowering my enjoyment of TvT below ZvP. I hardly thought it possible.
well when both players decide to let their skill at home TvT isn't good. Both played 2games abysmally. Hellbat vs Hellbat is fun when players have the multitask needed.
Why are people crying so hard, that was an entertaining game, it isn't like every TvT is hellbat vs hellbat. I kind of relate it to PvP when it becomes pheonix vs pheonix where you can't really transition out and it makes for a completely different match up.
On May 29 2013 10:25 Zath.erin wrote: Why are people crying so hard, that was an entertaining game, it isn't like every TvT is hellbat vs hellbat. I kind of relate it to PvP when it becomes pheonix vs pheonix where you can't really transition out and it makes for a completely different match up.
Indeed, it's just the build coinflip. Not much to do after both are commited to mass hellbat drops, only thing that can be done after it is fight for air control.
So pleased to see Demu come through that - it all seemed to come down to his securing air control, being totally aware of what that meant, and mercilessly driving that advantage home for the win. TheSTC will be a big challenge though... interesting that Demu will be playing nothing but TvT all the way through Challenger so far.
I think it was an entertaining game, but it was also a pretty facepalm moment. I know I thought to myself plenty of times during that game "Really? This is what one of the most diverse matchups in WoL has become? -.-"
On May 29 2013 10:29 RookUK wrote: So pleased to see Demu come through that - it all seemed to come down to his securing air control, being totally aware of what that meant, and mercilessly driving that advantage home for the win. TheSTC will be a big challenge though... interesting that Demu will be playing nothing but TvT all the way through Challenger so far.
To be honest, his banshee opener looks solid and bansheemicro aswell. Also, byun (1 of the best tvt players in the world), said against demu he also favor 1/1/1, before expand in tvt. But byun does more diverse builds with it
Demu tvp and tvz is okidoki... tvt he didnt convince me yet.
Demu isn't too comfortable playing vs meching terrans from what I've seen. I actually enjoyed the games quite a bit. Interesting to see XY's different little twists to the matchup, but game after game, even in the game he lost, Demuslim's macro was much better than his opponent's. I thought his control was better, too. I bet XY is going to watch those VODS and beat himself up when he sees that moment in game 2 where he could have just moved into demu's 2 marines and 1 siege tank with his handful of hellions and likely won the game. I feel that Demuslim is the better player, but that his TvT build probably still has quite a few kinks he needs to work out.
On May 29 2013 10:23 lichter wrote: Blizz needs to do something about hellbats
At first they were hilarious but now they basically make every single game they show up in worse. It has even made TvT crap
build 1 turret
Turrets so good and stopping ground units.
It puts a timer on the medivac, so that the medivac can't just hover around forever, waiting to drop the hellbats whenever. Hellbats are dangerous because of their splash, but are slow. With medivacs, they gain mobility and healing, and becoming really hard to fend off. By taking out of medivac, hellbats are much more manageable.
I like how Blizzard has secretly added the reaver drop back in sc2 in the form of a medivac and hellbat, but since reaver drops weren't good enough, we can now have two reavers and heal them and have temporary shuttle speed for free.
On May 29 2013 11:23 BrandFilt wrote: I like how Blizzard has secretly added the reaver drop back in sc2 in the form of a medivac and hellbat, but since reaver drops weren't good enough, we can now have two reavers and heal them and have temporary shuttle speed for free.
So the only actual comparison is that they're both things you drop to kill workers?
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/wcs/wcs_na_lr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png)
Axslav![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
WCS America![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xYABn.png)
MajOr vs 
Ian![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png)
