On May 24 2013 01:16 ppshchik wrote: Most people thought Flash or Fantasy would dominate when it comes to Kespa Terrans.
Who would've thought it'd be Bogus / Innovation.
To be fair, Flash has proven he can go toe to toe with Innovation numerous times, and is actually winning their head to head 5-3, he just happened to lose this GSL. That being said, I want Mvp to get robot arms and prove he's still the greatest SC2 player ever. >_<
I wrote a paragraph on page 95 about MVP that you should check out. Even in MVPs prime MMA leads in head to head victories. So even if MVP went "robot arms" in accordance with my previous paragraph on pg 95, I don't believe he would have been the greatest SC2 player after the Kespa transition.
Turn leads the head-to-head against Innovation, and Bear against RorO. Every player, almost without exception, will have one player or more against whom they have a losing record. That doesn't, or at least it shouldn't, diminish their accomplishments. I think, as the only four-time GSL champion, having a losing record against a two-time GSL champion should at the very least be considered acceptable, when he leads the head-to-head against a bunch of other GSL champions.
I used the MMA example because of the sample size. Take a look at the sample size between the two from both Korea and Internationally. The sample sizes for your comparisons are only one game lol thus proves it unarguable to the point I was trying to make. I don't diminish or ignore MVPs accomplishments by any means. I just wish that people will stop acting like he could have achieved the same accomplishments had the Kespa players transitioned sooner. I used MMA as an example to show that MVP was not as invincible as a lot of people make him out to be.
It's really a hype train thing. It gets to me too how overhyped someone is, some hype is justified (ie. JD/Flash bw hype, Mvp's Sc2 hype) but treating one player as some sort of demi-god because he's had a streak of very good showings, not so much. Yes, youre right. Turn is 1-0 vs Innovation. Extremely negligible sample size. So I'll give you another statistic. Flash. Flash: 5 Innovation: 3
Now to reply just generally to what's being discussed: IIt is NOT a fact that Innovation is the best player in the world. I'd argue the same if someone claimed Flash was, because life demolishes Flash in head to head. I'd also argue the same if someone claimed Life is, because Innovation completely wrecked him in the small sample size we saw of him.
Also; as for the MVp thing. see my post just above this one :p (EDIT: on the previous page since apparently my post caused a new page) Speculating talking is fun.
On May 24 2013 01:06 LighT. wrote: Wow.. Artosis and Tasteless really have to get their facts straight. SK being the only player to beat Innovation recently? Where are they getting these garbage information? TurN and Flash just beat him like a week ago
they were talking about zerg players
On May 24 2013 04:51 Kergy wrote: Wonder if we'll ever see an ESF player win GSL ever again... either way go Soulkey!
Life finds a way..
On May 24 2013 01:57 Coolness53 wrote: Monday, 29 April 2013 Soulkey beat Innovation in SPL. Not saying Soulkey is going to win. He does have a chance is all I am saying.
Not to mention that innovation played near-perfectly that game. That game was probably the only time I saw a zerg defend cost-efficiently against his midgame stream of units and be effectively aggressive against him.
On May 24 2013 01:06 LighT. wrote: Wow.. Artosis and Tasteless really have to get their facts straight. SK being the only player to beat Innovation recently? Where are they getting these garbage information? TurN and Flash just beat him like a week ago
On May 24 2013 01:57 Coolness53 wrote: Monday, 29 April 2013 Soulkey beat Innovation in SPL. Not saying Soulkey is going to win. He does have a chance is all I am saying.
Not to mention that innovation played near-perfectly that game. That game was probably the only time I saw a zerg defend cost-efficiently against his midgame stream of units and be effectively aggressive against him.
On May 24 2013 01:06 LighT. wrote: Wow.. Artosis and Tasteless really have to get their facts straight. SK being the only player to beat Innovation recently? Where are they getting these garbage information? TurN and Flash just beat him like a week ago
they were talking about zerg players
On May 24 2013 04:51 Kergy wrote: Wonder if we'll ever see an ESF player win GSL ever again... either way go Soulkey!
Life finds a way..
On May 24 2013 01:57 Coolness53 wrote: Monday, 29 April 2013 Soulkey beat Innovation in SPL. Not saying Soulkey is going to win. He does have a chance is all I am saying.
Not to mention that innovation played near-perfectly that game. That game was probably the only time I saw a zerg defend cost-efficiently against his midgame stream of units and be effectively aggressive against him.
My only critique of Symbol's play is that it wasn't all-in-ish enough. He should not have tried macro play in game 1 and his bust in game 6 came way too late. He should have tried a 6pool and a 1-base slow bane bust instead for those games.
Symbols only real chance of winning that series was to cheese like he did with his two wins. He played well its just innovation was the better player, but symbol played good games. Eventually though innovation is going to start scouting constantly and watching for the all ins like he started doing after that losing that second game. Innovation though played brilliantly even when he lost and definitely was the better player.
On May 24 2013 12:04 BigFan wrote: Can someone give me a quick overview of the games? I'm surprised at the lack of live reporting for such a big game :O
Basically Symbol attempted a macro game in set 1 and failed miserably. After, Symbol did all ins every game. one game Bogus lost was due to a roach all in and the other was a ling bane all-in. Bogus was well aware of Symbols strategy by game 6 and went for a 3 base mass siege tank turtle style that absolutely destroyed Symbols attempts to all-in thus giving Bogus the final victory.
On May 24 2013 12:35 Dodgin wrote: Actually Game 4 was won by a ling/bane all in that hit very early, not a midgame roach/bane.
Want to point out that Inno went for 15 cc to rax to third cc before gas. What symbol did was a hard counter instead of a blind alli., even though it was a baneling bust.
Just watched Innovation vs SK from PL and I'm shocked to think this but Bbyong's splits and widow mine positioning is superior to Innovation's. If he splits and micros like that in the finals he's not going home with a trophy.
On May 24 2013 13:40 lichter wrote: Just watched Innovation vs SK from PL and I'm shocked to think this but Bbyong's splits and widow mine positioning is superior to Innovation's. If he splits and micros like that in the finals he's not going home with a trophy.
Innovation also indirectly stated in an interview that he excels more in SC2 than he did in BW because sc2 is less micro intensive. So, it doesn't surprise me to hear that other players have better micro management than him.
EPT
