HerO is the obvious favorite given his recent performances but it won't be a walkover for him. Three strong Zerg in the group can make his life very hard.
On May 23 2013 04:45 CrazyBirdman wrote: HerO is the obvious favorite given his recent performances but it won't be a walkover for him. Three strong Zerg in the group can make his life very hard.
Can't see Revival taking down a protoss like Hero, but he has a tendency to make things interesting.
Why did Hero, Scarlett, and Suppy all have to be in the same group? ;_; Probably the three people in the tourney I care about the most. I know that means that at least one of them will get through (unlike if they were in separate groups), but I'm still going to be sad to see at least one of them go.
On May 23 2013 07:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: With so many ZvZs today and only 3 players tomorrow maybe we will finish before midnight the rest of the week
Dude, do you do anything besides browse and post on tl all day?
On May 23 2013 07:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: With so many ZvZs today and only 3 players tomorrow maybe we will finish before midnight the rest of the week
Dude, do you do anything besides browse and post on tl all day?
Yeah I go to school and do some other things. I work at a lab at school. I was working at the hospital during the semester. Why?
On May 23 2013 07:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: With so many ZvZs today and only 3 players tomorrow maybe we will finish before midnight the rest of the week
Dude, do you do anything besides browse and post on tl all day?
On May 23 2013 07:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: With so many ZvZs today and only 3 players tomorrow maybe we will finish before midnight the rest of the week
Dude, do you do anything besides browse and post on tl all day?
On May 23 2013 07:12 Seiniyta wrote: Those player photos looked kinda scary lol. Like they were pulled out of bed, dressed and then the photo taken.
Yeah, seriously. What the hell did the MLG employees do to them? Somehow they made photos of 2 of the most attractive players in the scene look like meth-head mugshots.
On May 23 2013 07:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: With so many ZvZs today and only 3 players tomorrow maybe we will finish before midnight the rest of the week
Dude, do you do anything besides browse and post on tl all day?
Yeah I go to school and do some other things. I work at a lab at school. I was working at the hospital during the semester. Why?
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom right Scarlett spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Scarlett nexus first for HerO hatch for Scarlett forge for HerO
3:00 gateway for HerO cannon for HerO
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Scarlett zealot for HerO cybernetics core for HerO
5:00 Stargate for HerO 2 more gas for HerO
6:00 phoenix production started for HerO robo for HerO 4 gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett catches and kills the first zealot of HerO 3 more gates for HerO +1 attack started for HerO Lair for Scarlett evo for Scarlett another gas for Scarlett
8:00 observer for HerO phoenixes move out and start killing the creep spreading queen queens chase the phoenixes away spores started for Scarlett ling speed for Scarlett Robo bay for HerO
9:00 immortal production started for HerO 4th bae for Scarlett 3 more gates for HerO infestation pit for Scarlett +1 range attack for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the main minera line of Scarlett mothership core for HerO
10:00 Swarm host production started for Scarlett the 6 phoenixes of HerO killing more queens 1 phoenix is killed Colossus production started for HerO +1 armor started for HerO enduring locusts started for Scarlett 3rd base for HerO
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom right Scarlett spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Scarlett nexus first for HerO hatch for Scarlett forge for HerO
3:00 gateway for HerO cannon for HerO
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Scarlett zealot for HerO cybernetics core for HerO
5:00 Stargate for HerO 2 more gas for HerO
6:00 phoenix production started for HerO robo for HerO 4 gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett catches and kills the first zealot of HerO 3 more gates for HerO +1 attack started for HerO Lair for Scarlett evo for Scarlett another gas for Scarlett
8:00 observer for HerO phoenixes move out and start killing the creep spreading queen queens chase the phoenixes away spores started for Scarlett ling speed for Scarlett Robo bay for HerO
9:00 immortal production started for HerO 4th bae for Scarlett 3 more gates for HerO infestation pit for Scarlett +1 range attack for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the main minera line of Scarlett mothership core for HerO
10:00 Swarm host production started for Scarlett the 6 phoenixes of HerO killing more queens 1 phoenix is killed Colossus production started for HerO +1 armor started for HerO enduring locusts started for Scarlett 3rd base for HerO
11:00 Hive started for Scarlett lings scout the colossi of HerO HerO cancels his 3rd base HerO moving across the map phoenixes lift 2 swarm hosts Swarm hosts burrow at the 4th of Scarlett to engage the army of HerO
12:00 more and more swarm hosts coming out for Scarlett HerO has no observer observer is now out for HerO
13:00 9 more swarm hosts spawning for Scarlett HerO pushing into the 4th base forcefields block out the locusts but HerO still has to back off +2 range attack started for Scarlett Scarlet is 60 supply ahead HerO trying to go through another attack path forceields blocking out locusts again but HerO still has to back off
14:00 HerO swinging around to attack the natural of Scarlett Swarmhosts reposition and HerO has to back off again 3rd base for HerO timewarp on the locusts queens try to kill the mothership core but it escapes HerO moving back around tot he 4th Swarm hosts reposition HerO turns back ot the natural ling runby scouts the 3rd of HerO HerO forcefields out the swarmhosts
15:00 HerO moves intot he natural Natural of Scarlett is killed Swarm hosts chasing after the army of HerO locusts doing a lot of damage to stalkers forcefield on the main ramp of SCarlett infestation pit is killed Vipers started for SCarlett Hive is killed by HerO
It's games like these that its better to not have the two players play next to each other. If I was scarlett, I'd very likely throw my mouse at Hero in frustration.
On May 23 2013 07:24 stuchiu wrote: It's games like these that its better to not have the two players play next to each other. If I was scarlett, I'd very likely throw my mouse at Hero in frustration.
So true! Damm, can't even believe that did happen..
On May 23 2013 07:24 stuchiu wrote: It's games like these that its better to not have the two players play next to each other. If I was scarlett, I'd very likely throw my mouse at Hero in frustration.
On May 23 2013 07:24 stuchiu wrote: It's games like these that its better to not have the two players play next to each other. If I was scarlett, I'd very likely throw my mouse at Hero in frustration.
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom right Scarlett spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Scarlett nexus first for HerO hatch for Scarlett forge for HerO
3:00 gateway for HerO cannon for HerO
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Scarlett zealot for HerO cybernetics core for HerO
5:00 Stargate for HerO 2 more gas for HerO
6:00 phoenix production started for HerO robo for HerO 4 gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett catches and kills the first zealot of HerO 3 more gates for HerO +1 attack started for HerO Lair for Scarlett evo for Scarlett another gas for Scarlett
8:00 observer for HerO phoenixes move out and start killing the creep spreading queen queens chase the phoenixes away spores started for Scarlett ling speed for Scarlett Robo bay for HerO
9:00 immortal production started for HerO 4th bae for Scarlett 3 more gates for HerO infestation pit for Scarlett +1 range attack for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the main minera line of Scarlett mothership core for HerO
10:00 Swarm host production started for Scarlett the 6 phoenixes of HerO killing more queens 1 phoenix is killed Colossus production started for HerO +1 armor started for HerO enduring locusts started for Scarlett 3rd base for HerO
11:00 Hive started for Scarlett lings scout the colossi of HerO HerO cancels his 3rd base HerO moving across the map phoenixes lift 2 swarm hosts Swarm hosts burrow at the 4th of Scarlett to engage the army of HerO
12:00 more and more swarm hosts coming out for Scarlett HerO has no observer observer is now out for HerO
13:00 9 more swarm hosts spawning for Scarlett HerO pushing into the 4th base forcefields block out the locusts but HerO still has to back off +2 range attack started for Scarlett Scarlet is 60 supply ahead HerO trying to go through another attack path forceields blocking out locusts again but HerO still has to back off
14:00 HerO swinging around to attack the natural of Scarlett Swarmhosts reposition and HerO has to back off again 3rd base for HerO timewarp on the locusts queens try to kill the mothership core but it escapes HerO moving back around tot he 4th Swarm hosts reposition HerO turns back ot the natural ling runby scouts the 3rd of HerO HerO forcefields out the swarmhosts
15:00 HerO moves intot he natural Natural of Scarlett is killed Swarm hosts chasing after the army of HerO locusts doing a lot of damage to stalkers forcefield on the main ramp of SCarlett infestation pit is killed Vipers started for SCarlett Hive is killed by HerO
16:00 Twilight council for HerO Extended thermal lance research finishes for HerO 2nd robo for HerO Lair restarted for Scarlett macro hatch for Scarlet HerO recalls out of the main after killing everything zealot runby at the 4th of Scarlett kills the queens but then dies to spines spawning pool restarted for SCarlett
17:00 natural hatch restarted for Scarlett main hatch restarted for Scarlett Scarlett moving across the map with her swarm hosts double colossus production started for HerO +2 attack started for HerO vipers abduct 1 colossus and the locusts kill it recall from HerO
18:00 infestation pit restarted for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO blink research for HerO the phoenixes are killed off HerO attacking the 4th of Scarlett
19:00 HerO leaves a few stalkers there and backs off with the rest of his army 5th base of Scarlett is killed by Hero Hive restarted for Scarlett
20:00 both players at 168 supply HerO starts his 4th base 3 more gates for HerO stalker squad killing creep tumors
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom right Scarlett spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Scarlett nexus first for HerO hatch for Scarlett forge for HerO
3:00 gateway for HerO cannon for HerO
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Scarlett zealot for HerO cybernetics core for HerO
5:00 Stargate for HerO 2 more gas for HerO
6:00 phoenix production started for HerO robo for HerO 4 gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett catches and kills the first zealot of HerO 3 more gates for HerO +1 attack started for HerO Lair for Scarlett evo for Scarlett another gas for Scarlett
8:00 observer for HerO phoenixes move out and start killing the creep spreading queen queens chase the phoenixes away spores started for Scarlett ling speed for Scarlett Robo bay for HerO
9:00 immortal production started for HerO 4th bae for Scarlett 3 more gates for HerO infestation pit for Scarlett +1 range attack for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the main minera line of Scarlett mothership core for HerO
10:00 Swarm host production started for Scarlett the 6 phoenixes of HerO killing more queens 1 phoenix is killed Colossus production started for HerO +1 armor started for HerO enduring locusts started for Scarlett 3rd base for HerO
11:00 Hive started for Scarlett lings scout the colossi of HerO HerO cancels his 3rd base HerO moving across the map phoenixes lift 2 swarm hosts Swarm hosts burrow at the 4th of Scarlett to engage the army of HerO
12:00 more and more swarm hosts coming out for Scarlett HerO has no observer observer is now out for HerO
13:00 9 more swarm hosts spawning for Scarlett HerO pushing into the 4th base forcefields block out the locusts but HerO still has to back off +2 range attack started for Scarlett Scarlet is 60 supply ahead HerO trying to go through another attack path forceields blocking out locusts again but HerO still has to back off
14:00 HerO swinging around to attack the natural of Scarlett Swarmhosts reposition and HerO has to back off again 3rd base for HerO timewarp on the locusts queens try to kill the mothership core but it escapes HerO moving back around tot he 4th Swarm hosts reposition HerO turns back ot the natural ling runby scouts the 3rd of HerO HerO forcefields out the swarmhosts
15:00 HerO moves intot he natural Natural of Scarlett is killed Swarm hosts chasing after the army of HerO locusts doing a lot of damage to stalkers forcefield on the main ramp of SCarlett infestation pit is killed Vipers started for SCarlett Hive is killed by HerO
16:00 Twilight council for HerO Extended thermal lance research finishes for HerO 2nd robo for HerO Lair restarted for Scarlett macro hatch for Scarlet HerO recalls out of the main after killing everything zealot runby at the 4th of Scarlett kills the queens but then dies to spines spawning pool restarted for SCarlett
17:00 natural hatch restarted for Scarlett main hatch restarted for Scarlett Scarlett moving across the map with her swarm hosts double colossus production started for HerO +2 attack started for HerO vipers abduct 1 colossus and the locusts kill it recall from HerO
18:00 infestation pit restarted for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO blink research for HerO the phoenixes are killed off HerO attacking the 4th of Scarlett
19:00 HerO leaves a few stalkers there and backs off with the rest of his army 5th base of Scarlett is killed by Hero Hive restarted for Scarlett
20:00 both players at 168 supply HerO starts his 4th base 3 more gates for HerO stalker squad killing creep tumors
21:00 HerO catches the swarm hosts moving around the map stalkers blink on the swarm host abduct on 1 of the colossi Scarlett has to escape with her swarm hosts a few die +3 attack started for scarlett 12 vipers for Scarlett Storm research started for HerO
22:00 HerO attacking at the 4th of Scarlett feedback on 2 of the vipers HerO recalls as the swarm host army moves in
23:00 HerO moving out with his army again to deny more bases of Scarlett HerO sees no 5th from SCarlett yet +3 attack started for HerO 7 colossi out for HerO 5th base started for Scarlett in the middle right abduct on 2 colossi feed back on a couple of vipers stalkers blink in to hit the vipers but they get blinding clouded
24:00 stalkers are able to blink away to survive zealots attacking the building 5th of Scarlett zealot warp in from the warp prism in the main of Scarlett
25:00 Hydralisk den for Scarlett main hatch of Scarlett is killed photon overcharge on the 4th of HerO denies a ling runby HerO is maxed vs 180 supply observer speed ofr HerO Fleetbeacon for HerO abduct on 2 colossi
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom right Scarlett spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Scarlett nexus first for HerO hatch for Scarlett forge for HerO
3:00 gateway for HerO cannon for HerO
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Scarlett zealot for HerO cybernetics core for HerO
5:00 Stargate for HerO 2 more gas for HerO
6:00 phoenix production started for HerO robo for HerO 4 gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett catches and kills the first zealot of HerO 3 more gates for HerO +1 attack started for HerO Lair for Scarlett evo for Scarlett another gas for Scarlett
8:00 observer for HerO phoenixes move out and start killing the creep spreading queen queens chase the phoenixes away spores started for Scarlett ling speed for Scarlett Robo bay for HerO
9:00 immortal production started for HerO 4th bae for Scarlett 3 more gates for HerO infestation pit for Scarlett +1 range attack for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the main minera line of Scarlett mothership core for HerO
10:00 Swarm host production started for Scarlett the 6 phoenixes of HerO killing more queens 1 phoenix is killed Colossus production started for HerO +1 armor started for HerO enduring locusts started for Scarlett 3rd base for HerO
11:00 Hive started for Scarlett lings scout the colossi of HerO HerO cancels his 3rd base HerO moving across the map phoenixes lift 2 swarm hosts Swarm hosts burrow at the 4th of Scarlett to engage the army of HerO
12:00 more and more swarm hosts coming out for Scarlett HerO has no observer observer is now out for HerO
13:00 9 more swarm hosts spawning for Scarlett HerO pushing into the 4th base forcefields block out the locusts but HerO still has to back off +2 range attack started for Scarlett Scarlet is 60 supply ahead HerO trying to go through another attack path forceields blocking out locusts again but HerO still has to back off
14:00 HerO swinging around to attack the natural of Scarlett Swarmhosts reposition and HerO has to back off again 3rd base for HerO timewarp on the locusts queens try to kill the mothership core but it escapes HerO moving back around tot he 4th Swarm hosts reposition HerO turns back ot the natural ling runby scouts the 3rd of HerO HerO forcefields out the swarmhosts
15:00 HerO moves intot he natural Natural of Scarlett is killed Swarm hosts chasing after the army of HerO locusts doing a lot of damage to stalkers forcefield on the main ramp of SCarlett infestation pit is killed Vipers started for SCarlett Hive is killed by HerO
16:00 Twilight council for HerO Extended thermal lance research finishes for HerO 2nd robo for HerO Lair restarted for Scarlett macro hatch for Scarlet HerO recalls out of the main after killing everything zealot runby at the 4th of Scarlett kills the queens but then dies to spines spawning pool restarted for SCarlett
17:00 natural hatch restarted for Scarlett main hatch restarted for Scarlett Scarlett moving across the map with her swarm hosts double colossus production started for HerO +2 attack started for HerO vipers abduct 1 colossus and the locusts kill it recall from HerO
18:00 infestation pit restarted for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO blink research for HerO the phoenixes are killed off HerO attacking the 4th of Scarlett
19:00 HerO leaves a few stalkers there and backs off with the rest of his army 5th base of Scarlett is killed by Hero Hive restarted for Scarlett
20:00 both players at 168 supply HerO starts his 4th base 3 more gates for HerO stalker squad killing creep tumors
21:00 HerO catches the swarm hosts moving around the map stalkers blink on the swarm host abduct on 1 of the colossi Scarlett has to escape with her swarm hosts a few die +3 attack started for scarlett 12 vipers for Scarlett Storm research started for HerO
22:00 HerO attacking at the 4th of Scarlett feedback on 2 of the vipers HerO recalls as the swarm host army moves in
23:00 HerO moving out with his army again to deny more bases of Scarlett HerO sees no 5th from SCarlett yet +3 attack started for HerO 7 colossi out for HerO 5th base started for Scarlett in the middle right abduct on 2 colossi feed back on a couple of vipers stalkers blink in to hit the vipers but they get blinding clouded
24:00 stalkers are able to blink away to survive zealots attacking the building 5th of Scarlett zealot warp in from the warp prism in the main of Scarlett
25:00 Hydralisk den for Scarlett main hatch of Scarlett is killed photon overcharge on the 4th of HerO denies a ling runby HerO is maxed vs 180 supply observer speed ofr HerO Fleetbeacon for HerO abduct on 2 colossi
26:00 HerO retreats with his army zealot runby into the natural of Scarlett spines are finishing up for Scarlett zealot runby to the new 5th of Scarlett
27:00 HerO attacking the 4th of Scarlett blinding cloud on the stalkers 4th base of Scarlett is killed HerO recalls 5th base of Scarlett is killed by zealots +2 armor for HerO Scarlett is 60 supply ahead Mothership started for HerO
28:00 stalkers blink forward and kill 5 more swarmhosts and escape Scarlett ggs! HerO wins game 1!
On May 23 2013 07:32 Zheryn wrote: swarm hosts just too immobile vs a good protoss
tahts why every zerg is turtling up with spines basically everywhere gsl shows it, without these there's no way to win a game the toss will always move out and move in on the other side.
scarlett played a great game, but hero's army management and tactical decisionmaking was spot on through the entire game. the position they were in where scarlett had like 25 swarm hosts and scarlett was up 30 supplyish and scarlett had 4 bases vs hero's 2 with third starting.. that's usually not one that ends well for protoss.
Awesome late game army control and positioning by HerO. However, I think he would be in trouble if he hadn't sniped the natural and the Hive along with all the tech. If Scarlett had denied HerO's entry into her nat she would be way ahead. HerO had delayed his third greatly and HAD to do damage, and even when he did it was still close for a long time.
On May 23 2013 07:32 Zheryn wrote: swarm hosts just too immobile vs a good protoss
Depends so much on the map, on Akilon that game would've looked very different.
Or that terrible Zerus Prime (? the one where the middle is a giant choke splitting the map in quarters), SH play is like invincible on that map. For a big open map like Bel'shir, muta play is pretty strong.
On May 23 2013 07:32 Zheryn wrote: swarm hosts just too immobile vs a good protoss
They are strong in conjunction with a spine and spore crawler forest to buy time for SH repositioning. Hero took advantage of a 2 base timing to never let Scarlett establish position. SH themselves aren't the problem.
I feel like Scarlett needs to commit to a stronger roach/hydra force before going straight into SH if she wants to pull it off against a player as good as Hero.
Props to HerO for force fielding a ramp, and a-moving collosi. Props to Scarlett for losing after being up by 2 bases and not just using her free units to a-moving to victory.
On May 23 2013 07:31 Dodgin wrote: Looks like there's more lag issues today? Really not acceptable for such an important tournament.
Ya pretty disappointing, not sure who's at fault, MLG or twitch. Twitch seems to be having issues lately, at least in WCS.
Twitch always had huge problems in EU, seems these probs are catching up to NA now. Need to invest in better infrastructure now that viewer numbers are higher across the board.
On May 23 2013 07:34 Shellshock1122 wrote: Nice to see a protoss finally using recall as part of their strategy more than once
I love it, but I understand why Protosses hesitate to use it. The MSC is so fragile, if it gets abducted or sniped by Corruptors/Mutas, or even Queens, it's all over. Honestly wish there was a lategame upgrade for the MSC to give it some more defense. Upgrading it to an actual Mothership makes it too slow.
Just have to stop and say... as usual, Scarlett still boss enough to tweet during the actual series. Also played like a boss, even though HerO played bossier and took the game.
On May 23 2013 07:36 Ameisenmann wrote: By the way, do many korean zergs play swarmhosts PvZ? I feel like whenever I see someone go for them, this is exactly what happens. Not sure though.
Seems like midgame Muta switches are the new hot topic among KR Zergs. Even Roro, known for having a good grasp on SH lategame mostly did Mutas against Parting today.
On May 23 2013 07:37 408xParadox wrote: Props to HerO for force fielding a ramp, and a-moving collosi. Props to Scarlett for losing after being up by 2 bases and not just using her free units to a-moving to victory.
TL;DR : Scarlett went full foreigner.
If you think that's what happened, you should try P yourselves. Hero's control and decision making was spot on, he played nearly perfectly. It's far from easy what he's done.
On May 23 2013 07:34 Shellshock1122 wrote: Nice to see a protoss finally using recall as part of their strategy more than once
I love it, but I understand why Protosses hesitate to use it. The MSC is so fragile, if it gets abducted or sniped by Corruptors/Mutas, or even Queens, it's all over. Honestly wish there was a lategame upgrade for the MSC to give it some more defense. Upgrading it to an actual Mothership makes it too slow.
The ability to recall is so powerful though, it's only fair the the MSC is fragile.
On May 23 2013 07:39 aoe2fan wrote: Dont compare hero to Parting
Not sure what you are trying to imply. Yes Parting is probably a better player, but the gap between the two isn't all that big. In PL I believe Hero has the better record.
On May 23 2013 07:39 aoe2fan wrote: Dont compare hero to Parting
Not sure what you are trying to imply. Yes Parting is probably a better player, but the gap between the two isn't all that big. In PL I believe Hero has the better record.
On May 23 2013 07:39 aoe2fan wrote: Dont compare hero to Parting
Not sure what you are trying to imply. Yes Parting is probably a better player, but the gap between the two isn't all that big. In PL I believe Hero has the better record.
They play so differently
that I can agree with, thought you meant that they were on completely different skill levels.
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom left Scarlett spawns in the top right
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett forge in main for HerO pool for Scarlett HerO cannon rushing Scarlet's natural
3:00 Scarlett cancels the natural hatch hatch at the 3rd location for Scarlett lings started for Scarlett cannon at home for HerO
4:00 Nexus for HerO pylon going down at the 3rd of Scarlett but lings are out and kill the probe pylon is canceled gateway for Hero
5:00 another hatch for Scarlett at the middle hatch double gas for HerO double gas for Scarlett Cybernetics core for HerO
6:00 +1 attack started for HerO queens killing off the pylons in the natural of Scarlett Lair for Scarlett
7:00 3 more gates for HerO ling speed for Scarlett evo for Scarlett HerO goes up to 4 gas
8:00 +1 range attack for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Scarlett single zealot runs into the main of Scarlett mothership core is out for HerO spine in the natural kills the last pylon in the natural of Scarlett +1 armor for Hero
9:00 zealots moving into the top center base of Scarlett double stargate for HerO hydras started for Scarlett natural hatch started for Scarlett mothership core joins up with the zealots
10:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed queens chase the mothership core away hydras are out now zealots are trhing to run away phoenixes started for HerO hydras kill almost all of the zealots
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom left Scarlett spawns in the top right
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett forge in main for HerO pool for Scarlett HerO cannon rushing Scarlet's natural
3:00 Scarlett cancels the natural hatch hatch at the 3rd location for Scarlett lings started for Scarlett cannon at home for HerO
4:00 Nexus for HerO pylon going down at the 3rd of Scarlett but lings are out and kill the probe pylon is canceled gateway for Hero
5:00 another hatch for Scarlett at the middle hatch double gas for HerO double gas for Scarlett Cybernetics core for HerO
6:00 +1 attack started for HerO queens killing off the pylons in the natural of Scarlett Lair for Scarlett
7:00 3 more gates for HerO ling speed for Scarlett evo for Scarlett HerO goes up to 4 gas
8:00 +1 range attack for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Scarlett single zealot runs into the main of Scarlett mothership core is out for HerO spine in the natural kills the last pylon in the natural of Scarlett +1 armor for Hero
9:00 zealots moving into the top center base of Scarlett double stargate for HerO hydras started for Scarlett natural hatch started for Scarlett mothership core joins up with the zealots
10:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed queens chase the mothership core away hydras are out now zealots are trhing to run away phoenixes started for HerO hydras kill almost all of the zealots
11:00 +1 air attack for HerO Twilight council for HerO +2 range attack started for Scarlett Hydra range for Scarlett Scarlett rebuilding her top middle base
12:00 HerO still building double phoenix Scarlett moving across the map with hydra ling phoenixes come out to start picking up the hydras Spire for Scarlett
13:00 Scarlett backs off from the natural of HerO and moves to deny a 3rd base mothership core of HerO is killed Scarlett trying to retreat phoenixes pick off another hydra hydra speed for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO spores building for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the natural of Scarlett
14:00 ling hydra drives back the ground army of HerO from Scarlett's center right base phoenixes come back to start picking up hydras charge research almost done for HerO Scarlett moves back to creep
15:00 mothership core rebuilding for HerO 3rd base started for HerO armies engage outside the 3rd of HerO phoenxies picking up bunches of Hydras Scarlett retreating to her base
It's very interesting that this is somehow working for HerO. I've never seen this before. I would have thought HerO would have just died without any form of aoe.
On May 23 2013 07:51 garbanzo wrote: It's very interesting that this is somehow working for HerO. I've never seen this before. I would have thought HerO would have just died without any form of aoe.
Need aoe against roaches. Hydra ling off of aprox 50 drones? phoenix chargelot beats it pretty handily.
On May 23 2013 07:39 aoe2fan wrote: Dont compare hero to Parting
Not sure what you are trying to imply. Yes Parting is probably a better player, but the gap between the two isn't all that big. In PL I believe Hero has the better record.
They play so differently
that I can agree with, thought you meant that they were on completely different skill levels.
i am kind of an anti-fan of hero but i cant deny that he is a good player. It's only fun rooting against him because he is good enough to beat anyone.
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom left Scarlett spawns in the top right
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett forge in main for HerO pool for Scarlett HerO cannon rushing Scarlet's natural
3:00 Scarlett cancels the natural hatch hatch at the 3rd location for Scarlett lings started for Scarlett cannon at home for HerO
4:00 Nexus for HerO pylon going down at the 3rd of Scarlett but lings are out and kill the probe pylon is canceled gateway for Hero
5:00 another hatch for Scarlett at the middle hatch double gas for HerO double gas for Scarlett Cybernetics core for HerO
6:00 +1 attack started for HerO queens killing off the pylons in the natural of Scarlett Lair for Scarlett
7:00 3 more gates for HerO ling speed for Scarlett evo for Scarlett HerO goes up to 4 gas
8:00 +1 range attack for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Scarlett single zealot runs into the main of Scarlett mothership core is out for HerO spine in the natural kills the last pylon in the natural of Scarlett +1 armor for Hero
9:00 zealots moving into the top center base of Scarlett double stargate for HerO hydras started for Scarlett natural hatch started for Scarlett mothership core joins up with the zealots
10:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed queens chase the mothership core away hydras are out now zealots are trhing to run away phoenixes started for HerO hydras kill almost all of the zealots
11:00 +1 air attack for HerO Twilight council for HerO +2 range attack started for Scarlett Hydra range for Scarlett Scarlett rebuilding her top middle base
12:00 HerO still building double phoenix Scarlett moving across the map with hydra ling phoenixes come out to start picking up the hydras Spire for Scarlett
13:00 Scarlett backs off from the natural of HerO and moves to deny a 3rd base mothership core of HerO is killed Scarlett trying to retreat phoenixes pick off another hydra hydra speed for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO spores building for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the natural of Scarlett
14:00 ling hydra drives back the ground army of HerO from Scarlett's center right base phoenixes come back to start picking up hydras charge research almost done for HerO Scarlett moves back to creep
15:00 mothership core rebuilding for HerO 3rd base started for HerO armies engage outside the 3rd of HerO phoenxies picking up bunches of Hydras Scarlett retreating to her base
16:00 HerO retreats as his phoenixes run out of energy Hydras chase after the ground army and picks off some zealots as HerO retreats HerO turns around and forcefields a bunch of hydras and kills them with zealots zealot runby at the top center base of Scarlett
17:00 HerO is 15 supply ahead Scarlett loses her top center base HerO adding on more gates
18:00 second Templar archives for HerO phoenixes still flying around harassing drones and hydras infestation pit for Scarlett
19:00 Void rays started for HerO storm research started for HerO pathogen glands for Scarlett
20:00 top center base restarted for Scarlett infestor production started for Scarlett 4 phoenixes pick off by hydras in the last minute Robo for HerO HerO's phoenixes get trapped between Scarlett's natural and middle right base
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom left Scarlett spawns in the top right
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett forge in main for HerO pool for Scarlett HerO cannon rushing Scarlet's natural
3:00 Scarlett cancels the natural hatch hatch at the 3rd location for Scarlett lings started for Scarlett cannon at home for HerO
4:00 Nexus for HerO pylon going down at the 3rd of Scarlett but lings are out and kill the probe pylon is canceled gateway for Hero
5:00 another hatch for Scarlett at the middle hatch double gas for HerO double gas for Scarlett Cybernetics core for HerO
6:00 +1 attack started for HerO queens killing off the pylons in the natural of Scarlett Lair for Scarlett
7:00 3 more gates for HerO ling speed for Scarlett evo for Scarlett HerO goes up to 4 gas
8:00 +1 range attack for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Scarlett single zealot runs into the main of Scarlett mothership core is out for HerO spine in the natural kills the last pylon in the natural of Scarlett +1 armor for Hero
9:00 zealots moving into the top center base of Scarlett double stargate for HerO hydras started for Scarlett natural hatch started for Scarlett mothership core joins up with the zealots
10:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed queens chase the mothership core away hydras are out now zealots are trhing to run away phoenixes started for HerO hydras kill almost all of the zealots
11:00 +1 air attack for HerO Twilight council for HerO +2 range attack started for Scarlett Hydra range for Scarlett Scarlett rebuilding her top middle base
12:00 HerO still building double phoenix Scarlett moving across the map with hydra ling phoenixes come out to start picking up the hydras Spire for Scarlett
13:00 Scarlett backs off from the natural of HerO and moves to deny a 3rd base mothership core of HerO is killed Scarlett trying to retreat phoenixes pick off another hydra hydra speed for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO spores building for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the natural of Scarlett
14:00 ling hydra drives back the ground army of HerO from Scarlett's center right base phoenixes come back to start picking up hydras charge research almost done for HerO Scarlett moves back to creep
15:00 mothership core rebuilding for HerO 3rd base started for HerO armies engage outside the 3rd of HerO phoenxies picking up bunches of Hydras Scarlett retreating to her base
16:00 HerO retreats as his phoenixes run out of energy Hydras chase after the ground army and picks off some zealots as HerO retreats HerO turns around and forcefields a bunch of hydras and kills them with zealots zealot runby at the top center base of Scarlett
17:00 HerO is 15 supply ahead Scarlett loses her top center base HerO adding on more gates
18:00 second Templar archives for HerO phoenixes still flying around harassing drones and hydras infestation pit for Scarlett
19:00 Void rays started for HerO storm research started for HerO pathogen glands for Scarlett
20:00 top center base restarted for Scarlett infestor production started for Scarlett 4 phoenixes pick off by hydras in the last minute Robo for HerO HerO's phoenixes get trapped between Scarlett's natural and middle right base
21:00 zealot runby to the top center base of Scarlett corruptors started for Scarlett Robo bay for herO +2 attack for HerO top center base of Scarlett is canceled
22:00 HerO loses the rest of his phoenixes HerO finally starting to clean up creep as it has already blocked basically every other base on the map top center base restarted for Scarlett
23:00 mothership core of HerO is killed HerO attacking into the right center base of Scarlett zealot runby to the to pcenter base storms hit the army of Scarlett fungal hits a lot of zealots Scarlett cleans up the zealot runby
24:00 Scarlett takes a supply lead Extended thermal lance research started for HerO 2nd robo for HerO Swarm hosts out for Scarlett Scarlett adding in more swarm hosts zealot runby to the top center base Scarlett cleans up the zealots
25:00 HerO attacking into the center right of Scarlett fungal hits some zealots storm hits the hydras and infestors zealots killing some of the warm hosts HerO takes a 30 supply lead
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom left Scarlett spawns in the top right
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett forge in main for HerO pool for Scarlett HerO cannon rushing Scarlet's natural
3:00 Scarlett cancels the natural hatch hatch at the 3rd location for Scarlett lings started for Scarlett cannon at home for HerO
4:00 Nexus for HerO pylon going down at the 3rd of Scarlett but lings are out and kill the probe pylon is canceled gateway for Hero
5:00 another hatch for Scarlett at the middle hatch double gas for HerO double gas for Scarlett Cybernetics core for HerO
6:00 +1 attack started for HerO queens killing off the pylons in the natural of Scarlett Lair for Scarlett
7:00 3 more gates for HerO ling speed for Scarlett evo for Scarlett HerO goes up to 4 gas
8:00 +1 range attack for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Scarlett single zealot runs into the main of Scarlett mothership core is out for HerO spine in the natural kills the last pylon in the natural of Scarlett +1 armor for Hero
9:00 zealots moving into the top center base of Scarlett double stargate for HerO hydras started for Scarlett natural hatch started for Scarlett mothership core joins up with the zealots
10:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed queens chase the mothership core away hydras are out now zealots are trhing to run away phoenixes started for HerO hydras kill almost all of the zealots
11:00 +1 air attack for HerO Twilight council for HerO +2 range attack started for Scarlett Hydra range for Scarlett Scarlett rebuilding her top middle base
12:00 HerO still building double phoenix Scarlett moving across the map with hydra ling phoenixes come out to start picking up the hydras Spire for Scarlett
13:00 Scarlett backs off from the natural of HerO and moves to deny a 3rd base mothership core of HerO is killed Scarlett trying to retreat phoenixes pick off another hydra hydra speed for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO spores building for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the natural of Scarlett
14:00 ling hydra drives back the ground army of HerO from Scarlett's center right base phoenixes come back to start picking up hydras charge research almost done for HerO Scarlett moves back to creep
15:00 mothership core rebuilding for HerO 3rd base started for HerO armies engage outside the 3rd of HerO phoenxies picking up bunches of Hydras Scarlett retreating to her base
16:00 HerO retreats as his phoenixes run out of energy Hydras chase after the ground army and picks off some zealots as HerO retreats HerO turns around and forcefields a bunch of hydras and kills them with zealots zealot runby at the top center base of Scarlett
17:00 HerO is 15 supply ahead Scarlett loses her top center base HerO adding on more gates
18:00 second Templar archives for HerO phoenixes still flying around harassing drones and hydras infestation pit for Scarlett
19:00 Void rays started for HerO storm research started for HerO pathogen glands for Scarlett
20:00 top center base restarted for Scarlett infestor production started for Scarlett 4 phoenixes pick off by hydras in the last minute Robo for HerO HerO's phoenixes get trapped between Scarlett's natural and middle right base
21:00 zealot runby to the top center base of Scarlett corruptors started for Scarlett Robo bay for herO +2 attack for HerO top center base of Scarlett is canceled
22:00 HerO loses the rest of his phoenixes HerO finally starting to clean up creep as it has already blocked basically every other base on the map top center base restarted for Scarlett
23:00 mothership core of HerO is killed HerO attacking into the right center base of Scarlett zealot runby to the to pcenter base storms hit the army of Scarlett fungal hits a lot of zealots Scarlett cleans up the zealot runby
24:00 Scarlett takes a supply lead Extended thermal lance research started for HerO 2nd robo for HerO Swarm hosts out for Scarlett Scarlett adding in more swarm hosts zealot runby to the top center base Scarlett cleans up the zealots
25:00 HerO attacking into the center right of Scarlett fungal hits some zealots storm hits the hydras and infestors zealots killing some of the warm hosts HerO takes a 30 supply lead
26:00 Scarlett is down to 25 drones Scarlett is able to save her base and push HerO back HerO changing his point of attack to the top center base of Scarlett Scarlett doesnt have fungal energy herO moving up to the 4th Swarm hosts move back mothership core is killed by corruptors
27:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed HerO retreats 86 supply for HerO vs 70 for Scarlett top left base started for HerO because it's not creep blocked
28:00 HerO cleaning up more creep on the left side of the map HerO moving around the top of the map again
29:00 fungal hits the army of HerO swarm hosts come out HerO is able to escape with most of his army before the locusts get in zealot runby to the middle right base of Scarlett the zealots run away before the locusts come in HerO coming back through the top of the map as the swarm hosts move fungal hits all the archons of HarO locusts starting to come in the locusts dont make it in time and HerO escapes
30:00 zealots try to come back to the right middle base but scarlett left a few swarm hosts to defend observer of HerO is picked off as he tries to engage the swarm hosts
This game has lasted so much longer than it needed to. Like others have said, mass hydras early on with no roaches was...not the best move early on for Scarlett, and now Hero is just playing sloppily when he's been so far ahead for such a long time.
0:00 HerO spawns in the bottom left Scarlett spawns in the top right
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett forge in main for HerO pool for Scarlett HerO cannon rushing Scarlet's natural
3:00 Scarlett cancels the natural hatch hatch at the 3rd location for Scarlett lings started for Scarlett cannon at home for HerO
4:00 Nexus for HerO pylon going down at the 3rd of Scarlett but lings are out and kill the probe pylon is canceled gateway for Hero
5:00 another hatch for Scarlett at the middle hatch double gas for HerO double gas for Scarlett Cybernetics core for HerO
6:00 +1 attack started for HerO queens killing off the pylons in the natural of Scarlett Lair for Scarlett
7:00 3 more gates for HerO ling speed for Scarlett evo for Scarlett HerO goes up to 4 gas
8:00 +1 range attack for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Scarlett single zealot runs into the main of Scarlett mothership core is out for HerO spine in the natural kills the last pylon in the natural of Scarlett +1 armor for Hero
9:00 zealots moving into the top center base of Scarlett double stargate for HerO hydras started for Scarlett natural hatch started for Scarlett mothership core joins up with the zealots
10:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed queens chase the mothership core away hydras are out now zealots are trhing to run away phoenixes started for HerO hydras kill almost all of the zealots
11:00 +1 air attack for HerO Twilight council for HerO +2 range attack started for Scarlett Hydra range for Scarlett Scarlett rebuilding her top middle base
12:00 HerO still building double phoenix Scarlett moving across the map with hydra ling phoenixes come out to start picking up the hydras Spire for Scarlett
13:00 Scarlett backs off from the natural of HerO and moves to deny a 3rd base mothership core of HerO is killed Scarlett trying to retreat phoenixes pick off another hydra hydra speed for Scarlett Templar archives for HerO spores building for Scarlett phoenixes harassing the natural of Scarlett
14:00 ling hydra drives back the ground army of HerO from Scarlett's center right base phoenixes come back to start picking up hydras charge research almost done for HerO Scarlett moves back to creep
15:00 mothership core rebuilding for HerO 3rd base started for HerO armies engage outside the 3rd of HerO phoenxies picking up bunches of Hydras Scarlett retreating to her base
16:00 HerO retreats as his phoenixes run out of energy Hydras chase after the ground army and picks off some zealots as HerO retreats HerO turns around and forcefields a bunch of hydras and kills them with zealots zealot runby at the top center base of Scarlett
17:00 HerO is 15 supply ahead Scarlett loses her top center base HerO adding on more gates
18:00 second Templar archives for HerO phoenixes still flying around harassing drones and hydras infestation pit for Scarlett
19:00 Void rays started for HerO storm research started for HerO pathogen glands for Scarlett
20:00 top center base restarted for Scarlett infestor production started for Scarlett 4 phoenixes pick off by hydras in the last minute Robo for HerO HerO's phoenixes get trapped between Scarlett's natural and middle right base
21:00 zealot runby to the top center base of Scarlett corruptors started for Scarlett Robo bay for herO +2 attack for HerO top center base of Scarlett is canceled
22:00 HerO loses the rest of his phoenixes HerO finally starting to clean up creep as it has already blocked basically every other base on the map top center base restarted for Scarlett
23:00 mothership core of HerO is killed HerO attacking into the right center base of Scarlett zealot runby to the to pcenter base storms hit the army of Scarlett fungal hits a lot of zealots Scarlett cleans up the zealot runby
24:00 Scarlett takes a supply lead Extended thermal lance research started for HerO 2nd robo for HerO Swarm hosts out for Scarlett Scarlett adding in more swarm hosts zealot runby to the top center base Scarlett cleans up the zealots
25:00 HerO attacking into the center right of Scarlett fungal hits some zealots storm hits the hydras and infestors zealots killing some of the warm hosts HerO takes a 30 supply lead
26:00 Scarlett is down to 25 drones Scarlett is able to save her base and push HerO back HerO changing his point of attack to the top center base of Scarlett Scarlett doesnt have fungal energy herO moving up to the 4th Swarm hosts move back mothership core is killed by corruptors
27:00 top center base of Scarlett is killed HerO retreats 86 supply for HerO vs 70 for Scarlett top left base started for HerO because it's not creep blocked
28:00 HerO cleaning up more creep on the left side of the map HerO moving around the top of the map again
29:00 fungal hits the army of HerO swarm hosts come out HerO is able to escape with most of his army before the locusts get in zealot runby to the middle right base of Scarlett the zealots run away before the locusts come in HerO coming back through the top of the map as the swarm hosts move fungal hits all the archons of HarO locusts starting to come in the locusts dont make it in time and HerO escapes
30:00 zealots try to come back to the right middle base but scarlett left a few swarm hosts to defend observer of HerO is picked off as he tries to engage the swarm hosts
31:00 HerO forcefields Scarlett's army into the natural HerO moves down and kills the center right base of Scarlett Void rays started for HerO colossus production started for HerO
32:00 HerO 25 supply ahead Scarlett scouts the top left base of HerO scarlett restarts the top center base again Scarlett moves the swarm hosts to attack the top center base Scarlett unleashes a wave of locusts and backs off HerO has a storm there to save the nexus HerO looking to engage the locusts but Scarlett is ready
33:00 Void rays and Colossi join the battle Scarlett kills the observer to save the swarm hosts HerO sending his army to the other side of the map Void rays attacking the top center base of Scarlett
34:00 Swarm hosts unburrow and try to retreat but Void rays start killing them Main army of HerO moves into the natural observer meets up with the army Scarlett loses everything Scarlett ggs! HerO wins the match 2-0!
On May 23 2013 07:34 Shellshock1122 wrote: Nice to see a protoss finally using recall as part of their strategy more than once
I love it, but I understand why Protosses hesitate to use it. The MSC is so fragile, if it gets abducted or sniped by Corruptors/Mutas, or even Queens, it's all over. Honestly wish there was a lategame upgrade for the MSC to give it some more defense. Upgrading it to an actual Mothership makes it too slow.
The ability to recall is so powerful though, it's only fair the the MSC is fragile.
Yeah, fair point. However I don't like when things are make or break (black or white, call it what you want), like for instance Fungals Used to be. They work and you win the game or they don't and you lose. Now with the projectile it's a bit more nuanced.
I would mind seeing a nerf to the Recall, if they gave MSC some late game defense. Increasing the cast time, cost or AoE would be fine by me.
On May 23 2013 08:06 FeyFey wrote: also need a nydus on neo planet for swarmhosts, otherwise the 2 pathways will own you.
Yeah I find it strange that she played SH on those 2 maps that make it very hard to control as much area as you need to if you wanna keep your fourth alive.
On May 23 2013 08:09 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Btw, did the +bio buff on spores change anything in ZvZ ?
Some people have been using other strats but there are still mass muta vs mass muta games. Snute didn't use mutas at all except to finish off one game. Nestea and sen both went for mass muta
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
When he advances you guys should have Hot Bid do an english only interview
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
When he advances you guys should have Hot Bid do an english only interview
Well I will give WCS NA some kudos for at least getting a good host in Total Biscuit. Let's hope they keep him around. Now if only we could get Bitterdamn casting!
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
Hot_Bid english interview with Hero please
By the way if any Polt fans are interested, he's going to be on Live on Three in a few minutes.
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
When he advances you guys should have Hot Bid do an english only interview
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
Speaking of contracts I was actually thinking of something a little bit ago and was wondering if you could answer it. When foreign teams make contracts with Korean players do you make the contracts in Korean or just in English with a translator to talk to them about it? Just something I was curious about. Thanks in advance :D
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
Whoa that would be a huge bonus to the audience.. everyone wants to hear Hero speaking English. Make it happen Total Biscuit!!
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
When he advances you guys should have Hot Bid do an english only interview
Yes this! I feel like he would double his fan base if he could communicate in english
EG-TL are the official jetsetters of SC2. Snute just arrived back at the team house in Korea as HerO arrived in NYC to play his games, along with Revival and aLive. Insane mapglobe presence!
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
mhhh i remember in the old days when he just joined TL he was scared of english and when jinro or huk ( i think ) tried getting some english out of him he never tried and after that i cant remember him saying anything in english. but if you say it nazgul ill believe you
Too bad these are my two favorite zergs, I have been watching Revival since he used to stream from the TSL house with the fan in the background, and Revival would be the only one still awake.
HerO is quite amazing. I've had so much problems with SHs lately, and what I got from this game about how to counter them was "Just be better at SC2 LOL"
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
mhhh i remember in the old days when he just joined TL he was scared of english and when jinro or huk ( i think ) tried getting some english out of him he never tried and after that i cant remember him saying anything in english. but if you say it nazgul ill believe you
He gave some english interviews in the past (but not live)
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
Speaking of contracts I was actually thinking of something a little bit ago and was wondering if you could answer it. When foreign teams make contracts with Korean players do you make the contracts in Korean or just in English with a translator to talk to them about it? Just something I was curious about. Thanks in advance :D
All our contract talks happen with translators since it can quickly get complicated. Our written and signed contracts are in English, but we give them a Korean copy that allows them to understand what it says.
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
Speaking of contracts I was actually thinking of something a little bit ago and was wondering if you could answer it. When foreign teams make contracts with Korean players do you make the contracts in Korean or just in English with a translator to talk to them about it? Just something I was curious about. Thanks in advance :D
All our contract talks happen with translators since it can quickly get complicated. Our written and signed contracts are in English, but we give them a Korean copy that allows them to understand what it says.
On May 23 2013 08:12 Zaxon wrote: Gj Hero now learn some english and you rock :D
We can have full conversations on just about anything with him in English (not contract and stuff like that obviously). He just needs a bit of confidence!
mhhh i remember in the old days when he just joined TL he was scared of english and when jinro or huk ( i think ) tried getting some english out of him he never tried and after that i cant remember him saying anything in english. but if you say it nazgul ill believe you
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players, Revival's a second or two ahead Hatch for Revival slightly later hatch for Suppy
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 Revival's queen kills an overlord of Suppy's ling speed for Suppy spine in the natural for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy 2nd spine for Revival evo chamber for Suppy Revival cancels the 2nd spine and takes 4 gas
6:00 +1 carapace for Suppy evo chamber for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy
7:00 Lair for Revival +1 carapace for Revival 2nd evo for Revival Suppy makes a bunch of lings +1 range attack started for Revival roaches started for Revival
8:00 Lair for Suppy Roach warren for Suppy Roach speed for Revival 2 more gas for Suppy Burrow research started for Revival
9:00 +1 range attack for Suppy overseer scouts the main of Suppy Revival moves out of his natural with a few roaches and some queens lings of Suppy surround the forces of Revival killing some roaches and queens Roaches started for Suppy
10:00 Roach speed for Suppy Revival gets some more roaches caught on the map burrow research finishes for Revival and he saves his roaches Suppy goes in for another attack with lings and roaches int he middle of the map but Revival just burrows again
I wonder what Revival's plan was if Suppy went for muta. His roaches were too late to hit a pre-muta timing and he can't really afford any good anti-air on 2 base and he can't take a third.
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players, Revival's a second or two ahead Hatch for Revival slightly later hatch for Suppy
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 Revival's queen kills an overlord of Suppy's ling speed for Suppy spine in the natural for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy 2nd spine for Revival evo chamber for Suppy Revival cancels the 2nd spine and takes 4 gas
6:00 +1 carapace for Suppy evo chamber for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy
7:00 Lair for Revival +1 carapace for Revival 2nd evo for Revival Suppy makes a bunch of lings +1 range attack started for Revival roaches started for Revival
8:00 Lair for Suppy Roach warren for Suppy Roach speed for Revival 2 more gas for Suppy Burrow research started for Revival
9:00 +1 range attack for Suppy overseer scouts the main of Suppy Revival moves out of his natural with a few roaches and some queens lings of Suppy surround the forces of Revival killing some roaches and queens Roaches started for Suppy
10:00 Roach speed for Suppy Revival gets some more roaches caught on the map burrow research finishes for Revival and he saves his roaches Suppy goes in for another attack with lings and roaches int he middle of the map but Revival just burrows again
11:00 Roach runby from Revival into the main for Suppy Revival pumping out more roaches another roach force attacking at the natural of Suppy Suppy is able to repel the attacks lings cleaning up the roaches int he main of Suppy queen at the 3rd of Suppy is killed by 3 roaches
12:00 Revival is ahead by 10 supply Revival comes in for another roach attack While Suppy's roaches are still split between his main and natural Suppy regroups and is able to push Revival back out
13:00 Revival goes in for another attack at hte natural ramp but Suppy has a huge concave waiting Revival retreats down the ramp and Suppy starts chasing Revival retreating home as Suppy was starting to win the battle 2-2 on the way for Revival
14:00 Revival burrows his roaches at home to health them Revival ahead by 10 drones 3rd base started for Revival +2 range attack started for Suppy
15:00 Revival moving across the map again Supplies are 161 for Suppy vs 165 for Revival Hydralisk den for Revival 2-2 will finish for Revival before +2 attack finishes for Suppy
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players, Revival's a second or two ahead Hatch for Revival slightly later hatch for Suppy
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 Revival's queen kills an overlord of Suppy's ling speed for Suppy spine in the natural for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy 2nd spine for Revival evo chamber for Suppy Revival cancels the 2nd spine and takes 4 gas
6:00 +1 carapace for Suppy evo chamber for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy
7:00 Lair for Revival +1 carapace for Revival 2nd evo for Revival Suppy makes a bunch of lings +1 range attack started for Revival roaches started for Revival
8:00 Lair for Suppy Roach warren for Suppy Roach speed for Revival 2 more gas for Suppy Burrow research started for Revival
9:00 +1 range attack for Suppy overseer scouts the main of Suppy Revival moves out of his natural with a few roaches and some queens lings of Suppy surround the forces of Revival killing some roaches and queens Roaches started for Suppy
10:00 Roach speed for Suppy Revival gets some more roaches caught on the map burrow research finishes for Revival and he saves his roaches Suppy goes in for another attack with lings and roaches int he middle of the map but Revival just burrows again
11:00 Roach runby from Revival into the main for Suppy Revival pumping out more roaches another roach force attacking at the natural of Suppy Suppy is able to repel the attacks lings cleaning up the roaches int he main of Suppy queen at the 3rd of Suppy is killed by 3 roaches
12:00 Revival is ahead by 10 supply Revival comes in for another roach attack While Suppy's roaches are still split between his main and natural Suppy regroups and is able to push Revival back out
13:00 Revival goes in for another attack at hte natural ramp but Suppy has a huge concave waiting Revival retreats down the ramp and Suppy starts chasing Revival retreating home as Suppy was starting to win the battle 2-2 on the way for Revival
14:00 Revival burrows his roaches at home to health them Revival ahead by 10 drones 3rd base started for Revival +2 range attack started for Suppy
15:00 Revival moving across the map again Supplies are 161 for Suppy vs 165 for Revival Hydralisk den for Revival 2-2 will finish for Revival before +2 attack finishes for Suppy
16:00 contaminate on the natural hatch of Suppy Hydra range started for Revival Hydras started for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy 2-2 finishes for Revival
17:00 Revival maxed vs 185 supply Hydra range started for Suppy Hydras started for Suppy infestation pit for Revival Hydra speed for Revival
18:00 Revival looking for a place to attack moving around the different ramps outside suppy's bases 4th started for Suppy +2 carapace started for Suppy 4th base of Suppy is canceled Revival pushing into the 3rd of Suppy Suppy has the concave to start the fight
19:00 Suppy moving a spine over to help Suppy wins the battle and takes a 50 supply lead thanks to the concave 4th base for Revival finishes 4th base restarted for Suppy Hydra speed for Suppy Suppy starting to move across the map
20:00 Revival has closed the supply gap to 30 now Suppy moving towards the 4th of Revival Revival gets in a defensive position and suppy backs off Armies engage near the watchtower on Revival's half of the map
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players, Revival's a second or two ahead Hatch for Revival slightly later hatch for Suppy
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 Revival's queen kills an overlord of Suppy's ling speed for Suppy spine in the natural for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy 2nd spine for Revival evo chamber for Suppy Revival cancels the 2nd spine and takes 4 gas
6:00 +1 carapace for Suppy evo chamber for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy
7:00 Lair for Revival +1 carapace for Revival 2nd evo for Revival Suppy makes a bunch of lings +1 range attack started for Revival roaches started for Revival
8:00 Lair for Suppy Roach warren for Suppy Roach speed for Revival 2 more gas for Suppy Burrow research started for Revival
9:00 +1 range attack for Suppy overseer scouts the main of Suppy Revival moves out of his natural with a few roaches and some queens lings of Suppy surround the forces of Revival killing some roaches and queens Roaches started for Suppy
10:00 Roach speed for Suppy Revival gets some more roaches caught on the map burrow research finishes for Revival and he saves his roaches Suppy goes in for another attack with lings and roaches int he middle of the map but Revival just burrows again
11:00 Roach runby from Revival into the main for Suppy Revival pumping out more roaches another roach force attacking at the natural of Suppy Suppy is able to repel the attacks lings cleaning up the roaches int he main of Suppy queen at the 3rd of Suppy is killed by 3 roaches
12:00 Revival is ahead by 10 supply Revival comes in for another roach attack While Suppy's roaches are still split between his main and natural Suppy regroups and is able to push Revival back out
13:00 Revival goes in for another attack at hte natural ramp but Suppy has a huge concave waiting Revival retreats down the ramp and Suppy starts chasing Revival retreating home as Suppy was starting to win the battle 2-2 on the way for Revival
14:00 Revival burrows his roaches at home to health them Revival ahead by 10 drones 3rd base started for Revival +2 range attack started for Suppy
15:00 Revival moving across the map again Supplies are 161 for Suppy vs 165 for Revival Hydralisk den for Revival 2-2 will finish for Revival before +2 attack finishes for Suppy
16:00 contaminate on the natural hatch of Suppy Hydra range started for Revival Hydras started for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy 2-2 finishes for Revival
17:00 Revival maxed vs 185 supply Hydra range started for Suppy Hydras started for Suppy infestation pit for Revival Hydra speed for Revival
18:00 Revival looking for a place to attack moving around the different ramps outside suppy's bases 4th started for Suppy +2 carapace started for Suppy 4th base of Suppy is canceled Revival pushing into the 3rd of Suppy Suppy has the concave to start the fight
19:00 Suppy moving a spine over to help Suppy wins the battle and takes a 50 supply lead thanks to the concave 4th base for Revival finishes 4th base restarted for Suppy Hydra speed for Suppy Suppy starting to move across the map
20:00 Revival has closed the supply gap to 30 now Suppy moving towards the 4th of Revival Revival gets in a defensive position and suppy backs off Armies engage near the watchtower on Revival's half of the map
21:00 +2 carapace is finished for Suppy and Suppy is able to push Revival back Suppy 40 supply ahead now Suppy moves into the 4th of Revival and starts killing the hatch all of the drones at the 4th are burrowed the 4th of Revival is killed armies engage over the remains of the 4th base of Suppy has too many hydras vs just pure roaches for Revival
22:00 Revival ggs as his roaches die Suppy wins game 1!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
Have you played muta against that build? I don't know how the hell he's supposed to counter mutas since he can't go out and take a third.
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
i agree, i will kill this build with speedlings every time. good amount of speedlings can contain them well, they finally get out AND cover their wall,, by then i have mutalisks. i think not using nydus with this build is a mistake
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
Have you played muta against that build? I don't know how the hell he's supposed to counter mutas since he can't go out and take a third.
Just go kill him I would think. 1-1 roaches versus a player going muta would easily take out a hatch and probably the spire before being killed, at which point you can safely take a third.
WoW man suppy handled that really well his positioning was awsome revival is not a zerg who you should take lightly and suppy is handling it again! he did have some luck with the ling capture's but next to that he was behind in econ but traded really wel with the roaches
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
Have you played muta against that build? I don't know how the hell he's supposed to counter mutas since he can't go out and take a third.
it's a 1-1 speed roach all-in. i'm pretty sure he has to kill before mutalisk or he loses. the timing is accelerated by the late gas and skipping ling speed and skipping baneling nest.
I don't think it's good against anything. I am surprised he actually got ahead against suppy at all, especially with the free roaches suppy killed outside his base.
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
i agree, i will kill this build with speedlings every time. good amount of speedlings can contain them well, they finally get out AND cover their wall,, by then i have mutalisks. i think not using nydus with this build is a mistake
Can you make a wild prediction and tell me that roach wars are doomed to disappear? please :o I don't mind the positionning game, but other than that it's more boring that mutas vs mutas ;_;
0:00 Suppy spawns in the bottom left Revival spawns in the top right
2:00 pool first for both players Hatch for both players gas for Suppy
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for Suppy ling scouts the main of Suppy and sees him mining gas still baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 double evo for Revival Roach warren for Revival spine in the natural for Suppy 4 gas for Revival
6:00 3rd base for Suppy ling gets into the natural and main of Revival Lair for Revival Lair for Suppy evo for Suppy 2 more gas for Suppy
7:00 +1 carapace for Revival Roach warren for Suppy +1 range attack for Revival +1 range attack for Suppy Roaches started for Revival
8:00 Roach speed for Revival Roach speed for Suppy 3rd base for Revival Roaches started for Suppy
9:00 2nd evo for Suppy +2 carapace for Revival
10:00 Revival starting to pump out roaches while Suppy makes some more drones +2 range attack for Suppy +1carapace for suppy +2 range attack started for Revival
0:00 Suppy spawns in the bottom left Revival spawns in the top right
2:00 pool first for both players Hatch for both players gas for Suppy
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for Suppy ling scouts the main of Suppy and sees him mining gas still baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 double evo for Revival Roach warren for Revival spine in the natural for Suppy 4 gas for Revival
6:00 3rd base for Suppy ling gets into the natural and main of Revival Lair for Revival Lair for Suppy evo for Suppy 2 more gas for Suppy
7:00 +1 carapace for Revival Roach warren for Suppy +1 range attack for Revival +1 range attack for Suppy Roaches started for Revival
8:00 Roach speed for Revival Roach speed for Suppy 3rd base for Revival Roaches started for Suppy
9:00 2nd evo for Suppy +2 carapace for Revival
10:00 Revival starting to pump out roaches while Suppy makes some more drones +2 range attack for Suppy +1carapace for suppy +2 range attack started for Revival
11:00 Hydralisk den for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy 3 more gas for suppy Hydra range started for Revival
12:00 Hydra production startedf or Revival Revival 25 supply ahead 4th base for Revival Hydra range started for SUppy 4th base for Suppy hydras started for Suppy Revival starting to move out on the map
13:00 Revival is maxed vs 173 supply Revival moving towards the 4th of Suppy after scouting it with his overseer Hydra speed started for Revival +2 carapace for Suppy ling runby to the 4th of Revival is cleaned up main army of Revival pushes into the 4th of Suppy and forces a cancel Revival almost moves up to the ramp into Suppy's 3rd but backs off
14:00 Hydra speed for Suppy infestation pit for Revival Suppy taking his 4th in the bottom center now instead of left center both players are maxed infestation pit for Suppy Hive for Revival pathogen glands for Revival burrow research for Revival
15:00 Roaches kill the building 4th of Suppy Suppy restarts the center left base armies engage outside the natural of Suppy +2 carapace hasnt finished for Suppy yet Revival pushing Suppy into his 3rd Suppy is able to hold but Revival has a 30 supply lead Hive for suppy
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
i agree, i will kill this build with speedlings every time. good amount of speedlings can contain them well, they finally get out AND cover their wall,, by then i have mutalisks. i think not using nydus with this build is a mistake
Can you make a wild prediction and tell me that roach wars are doomed to disappear? please :o I don't mind the positionning game, but other than that it's more boring that mutas vs mutas ;_;
no. but builds where you skip ling speed and baneling nest are doomed to disappear.
0:00 Suppy spawns in the bottom left Revival spawns in the top right
2:00 pool first for both players Hatch for both players gas for Suppy
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for Suppy ling scouts the main of Suppy and sees him mining gas still baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 double evo for Revival Roach warren for Revival spine in the natural for Suppy 4 gas for Revival
6:00 3rd base for Suppy ling gets into the natural and main of Revival Lair for Revival Lair for Suppy evo for Suppy 2 more gas for Suppy
7:00 +1 carapace for Revival Roach warren for Suppy +1 range attack for Revival +1 range attack for Suppy Roaches started for Revival
8:00 Roach speed for Revival Roach speed for Suppy 3rd base for Revival Roaches started for Suppy
9:00 2nd evo for Suppy +2 carapace for Revival
10:00 Revival starting to pump out roaches while Suppy makes some more drones +2 range attack for Suppy +1carapace for suppy +2 range attack started for Revival
11:00 Hydralisk den for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy 3 more gas for suppy Hydra range started for Revival
12:00 Hydra production startedf or Revival Revival 25 supply ahead 4th base for Revival Hydra range started for SUppy 4th base for Suppy hydras started for Suppy Revival starting to move out on the map
13:00 Revival is maxed vs 173 supply Revival moving towards the 4th of Suppy after scouting it with his overseer Hydra speed started for Revival +2 carapace for Suppy ling runby to the 4th of Revival is cleaned up main army of Revival pushes into the 4th of Suppy and forces a cancel Revival almost moves up to the ramp into Suppy's 3rd but backs off
14:00 Hydra speed for Suppy infestation pit for Revival Suppy taking his 4th in the bottom center now instead of left center both players are maxed infestation pit for Suppy Hive for Revival pathogen glands for Revival burrow research for Revival
15:00 Roaches kill the building 4th of Suppy Suppy restarts the center left base armies engage outside the natural of Suppy +2 carapace hasnt finished for Suppy yet Revival pushing Suppy into his 3rd Suppy is able to hold but Revival has a 30 supply lead Hive for suppy
16:00 Suppy chasing Revival across the map engagment again int he middle of the map but Revival has too much Suppy starting to retreat now Revival 40 supply ahead now
17:00 a few roaches runby to the center left base of Suppy but suppy sends some to deal with it Revival moves into the 3rd of Suppy with his main army Suppy has a good concave but not enough units Revival takes the concave now and crushes the army of Suppy Revival moves into the 3rd with a 60 supply lead Suppy ggs! Revival ties the series 1-1!
On May 23 2013 08:44 Oboeman wrote: suppy goes full foreigner beating the korean!!!
revival... throws away lead attacking into choke. your lead wasn't THAT big revival.
also i hate revival's build. it has been popular on ladder for ages, and it sucks. i just run lings straight up his butt as soon as roaches move out and either base trade or barely defend while counterattacking. no ling speed and no baneling nest is just way too vulnerable.
i agree, i will kill this build with speedlings every time. good amount of speedlings can contain them well, they finally get out AND cover their wall,, by then i have mutalisks. i think not using nydus with this build is a mistake
Can you make a wild prediction and tell me that roach wars are doomed to disappear? please :o I don't mind the positionning game, but other than that it's more boring that mutas vs mutas ;_;
no. but builds where you skip ling speed and baneling nest are doomed to disappear.
yeah i agree
speedling timings are in right now and roaches are out, i have trouble surviving speedling all ins even with banes/speed with an early lair, i have no idea how revival manages to hold that.
these are some awful games... suppy is playing utter crap really. He sees this build but doesn't drone up at all... He is undersaturated on 2 bases early on, takes a third and drones way too late...
The double evo should really be countered by massive droning..
Revival's play isn't too stellar either, that opening can easily be a abused by a top zerg just going greedy third
Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
I may be wrong but Swarm host vs Swarm host will never happen that way I believe, because mobility is much more effective against swarm host than anything else.. So swarm host vs ultra-lings-vipers?
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
I may be wrong but Swarm host vs Swarm host will never happen that way I believe, because mobility is much more effective against swarm host than anything else.. So swarm host vs ultra-lings-vipers?
Oh trust me it'll happen if there is no air thread. Ultras actually can't really fight vs swarmhosts (unless there aren't many).
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
same reason people have hard-on for mech I guess?
Mech is different, there is normally harassment and mech doesn't fling free units out so games don't draw out like sh vs sh.
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players gas for Revival hatch for Suppy hatch for Revival gas for Suppy
3:00 ling speed for Revival
4:00 Ling speed for Suppy Revival building lings and hiding them in his main baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 lings get into the main of Revival Suppy sees all the lings out for Revival spine for Suppy in the natural Revival making more lings and sending them across the map Suppy evacuates all his drones into his main and blocks the remp with his queens banelings started for Suppy spine of Suppy is killed
either someone all ins or no one does anything for 12 minutes and then 2 muta flocks a move into each other and a 25 minute battle happens with neither player microing and whoever has better upgrades or more mutas wins
On May 23 2013 09:11 Corrosive wrote: ya muta vs muta was awesome
either someone all ins or no one does anything for 12 minutes and then 2 muta flocks a move into each other and a 25 minute battle happens with neither player microing and whoever has better upgrades or more mutas wins
id rather have WoL zvz
You would rather watch hydra/infestor/broodlord/corruptor vs hydra/infestor/broodlord/corruptor O_O.
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players gas for Revival hatch for Suppy hatch for Revival gas for Suppy
3:00 ling speed for Revival
4:00 Ling speed for Suppy Revival building lings and hiding them in his main baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 lings get into the main of Revival Suppy sees all the lings out for Revival spine for Suppy in the natural Revival making more lings and sending them across the map Suppy evacuates all his drones into his main and blocks the remp with his queens banelings started for Suppy spine of Suppy is killed
6:00 first queen of suppy falls Revival trying to target down the hatch banelings finish and Suppy and able to push Revival away Spine in the natural for Revival 2nd spine for Revival
7:00 Suppy moving across the map and morphing more banelings Suppy sees the spine of Revival Suppy moves into the natural of Revival spines taking out the banelings transfuse on the 2nd spine to save it after Suppy kills the first
8:00 baneling nest for Revival Suppy sending more lings across the map another spine for Revival Suppy starts droning again a few lings of Revival get into the main of Suppy and kill a drone while scouting
9:00 Lair for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy evo chamber for revival
10:00 lings scout the natural of Revival and pick off a drone 3 more gas for Revival Suppy morphing at bunch of banelings Revival wastes 2 banelings on baneling cocoons Suppy pushing into the natural of Revival with his ling bane force 12 drones have been killed for Suppy now Revival holds the attack
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players gas for Revival hatch for Suppy hatch for Revival gas for Suppy
3:00 ling speed for Revival
4:00 Ling speed for Suppy Revival building lings and hiding them in his main baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 lings get into the main of Revival Suppy sees all the lings out for Revival spine for Suppy in the natural Revival making more lings and sending them across the map Suppy evacuates all his drones into his main and blocks the remp with his queens banelings started for Suppy spine of Suppy is killed
6:00 first queen of suppy falls Revival trying to target down the hatch banelings finish and Suppy and able to push Revival away Spine in the natural for Revival 2nd spine for Revival
7:00 Suppy moving across the map and morphing more banelings Suppy sees the spine of Revival Suppy moves into the natural of Revival spines taking out the banelings transfuse on the 2nd spine to save it after Suppy kills the first
8:00 baneling nest for Revival Suppy sending more lings across the map another spine for Revival Suppy starts droning again a few lings of Revival get into the main of Suppy and kill a drone while scouting
9:00 Lair for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy evo chamber for revival
10:00 lings scout the natural of Revival and pick off a drone 3 more gas for Revival Suppy morphing at bunch of banelings Revival wastes 2 banelings on baneling cocoons Suppy pushing into the natural of Revival with his ling bane force 12 drones have been killed for Suppy now Revival holds the attack
11:00 Roach warren for Suppy Lair for Suppy Roach speed for Revival Roaches coming out for Revival Suppy is ahead by 10 drones evo chamber for Suppy +1 range attack started for Revival Suppy adding on more gas
12:00 Roaches started for Suppy +1 range attack started for Suppy Roach speed for Suppy 3rd base for Revival
13:00 Suppy is 25 supply ahead Roach speed finishes for Revival 2 more gas for Suppy
14:00 Hydralisk den for Suppy 2nd evo for Revival 2nd evo for Suppy +1 carapace for Revival Hydra range for Suppy +2 range attack started for Revival
15:00 +1 carapace for Suppy +2 range attack for Suppy Hydralisk den for Revival Hydra range started for Revival
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for both players gas for Revival hatch for Suppy hatch for Revival gas for Suppy
3:00 ling speed for Revival
4:00 Ling speed for Suppy Revival building lings and hiding them in his main baneling nest for Suppy
5:00 lings get into the main of Revival Suppy sees all the lings out for Revival spine for Suppy in the natural Revival making more lings and sending them across the map Suppy evacuates all his drones into his main and blocks the remp with his queens banelings started for Suppy spine of Suppy is killed
6:00 first queen of suppy falls Revival trying to target down the hatch banelings finish and Suppy and able to push Revival away Spine in the natural for Revival 2nd spine for Revival
7:00 Suppy moving across the map and morphing more banelings Suppy sees the spine of Revival Suppy moves into the natural of Revival spines taking out the banelings transfuse on the 2nd spine to save it after Suppy kills the first
8:00 baneling nest for Revival Suppy sending more lings across the map another spine for Revival Suppy starts droning again a few lings of Revival get into the main of Suppy and kill a drone while scouting
9:00 Lair for Revival Roach warren for Revival 3rd base for Suppy evo chamber for revival
10:00 lings scout the natural of Revival and pick off a drone 3 more gas for Revival Suppy morphing at bunch of banelings Revival wastes 2 banelings on baneling cocoons Suppy pushing into the natural of Revival with his ling bane force 12 drones have been killed for Suppy now Revival holds the attack
11:00 Roach warren for Suppy Lair for Suppy Roach speed for Revival Roaches coming out for Revival Suppy is ahead by 10 drones evo chamber for Suppy +1 range attack started for Revival Suppy adding on more gas
12:00 Roaches started for Suppy +1 range attack started for Suppy Roach speed for Suppy 3rd base for Revival
13:00 Suppy is 25 supply ahead Roach speed finishes for Revival 2 more gas for Suppy
14:00 Hydralisk den for Suppy 2nd evo for Revival 2nd evo for Suppy +1 carapace for Revival Hydra range for Suppy +2 range attack started for Revival
15:00 +1 carapace for Suppy +2 range attack for Suppy Hydralisk den for Revival Hydra range started for Revival
16:00 Hydra speed for Suppy Suppy 22 supply ahead and moving across the map Hydras started for Revival
17:00 4th base started for Suppy Revival moves his army and Suppy takes out 2 spines Hydra speed for Revival +2 carapace started for Revival both players are maxing out +2 carapace started for Suppy armies engage at the bottom of Revival's natural ramp
18:00 Suppy has more hydras and appears to have the concave Suppy is taking a 25 supply lead Revival's army is pushed back Suppy pulls back to regroup as Revival's reinforcements come out
19:00 Suppy goes in for another attack at the natural of Revival Revival comes downt he ramp to engage Suppy takes a 70 supply lead Revival is losing all of his units Suppy moves up the ramp into the natural Revival ggs! Suppy takes the series 2-1!
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
I may be wrong but Swarm host vs Swarm host will never happen that way I believe, because mobility is much more effective against swarm host than anything else.. So swarm host vs ultra-lings-vipers?
Oh trust me it'll happen if there is no air thread. Ultras actually can't really fight vs swarmhosts (unless there aren't many).
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
same reason people have hard-on for mech I guess?
Mech is different, there is normally harassment and mech doesn't fling free units out so games don't draw out like sh vs sh.
the sh just never introduces interesting play.
The mere design of the unit forces it into massing it which causes the most dull gameplay ever. Blizz really fucked up with the design of it, they should have just made a long range unit instead of some free unit spawner.
ZvP is already seeing too many crappy superlong games because of it.
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
I may be wrong but Swarm host vs Swarm host will never happen that way I believe, because mobility is much more effective against swarm host than anything else.. So swarm host vs ultra-lings-vipers?
Oh trust me it'll happen if there is no air thread. Ultras actually can't really fight vs swarmhosts (unless there aren't many).
On May 23 2013 09:08 Oboeman wrote:
On May 23 2013 09:04 blade55555 wrote:
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
same reason people have hard-on for mech I guess?
Mech is different, there is normally harassment and mech doesn't fling free units out so games don't draw out like sh vs sh.
the sh just never introduces interesting play.
The mere design of the unit forces it into massing it which causes the most dull gameplay ever. Blizz really fucked up with the design of it, they should have just made a long range unit instead of some free unit spawner.
ZvP is already seeing too many crappy superlong games because of it.
I think the unit could be fine without a complete redesign. I think it could be made interesting if you increase the amount of time between locust spawns rather significantly, but increase the Swarm Host's movement speed by quite a bit. That way they can do hit and run attacks and be really deadly in the hands of people that move their army and micro well, but they could still be very vulnerable between locust spawns for much longer. They've feel more Zerg'ish that way too, I think.
Does anyone know if suppy is still going korea to train for a period of time? Remember it being spoken about around april, although I wasn't sure if it was a really awful april fools or not
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
I may be wrong but Swarm host vs Swarm host will never happen that way I believe, because mobility is much more effective against swarm host than anything else.. So swarm host vs ultra-lings-vipers?
Oh trust me it'll happen if there is no air thread. Ultras actually can't really fight vs swarmhosts (unless there aren't many).
On May 23 2013 09:08 Oboeman wrote:
On May 23 2013 09:04 blade55555 wrote:
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
same reason people have hard-on for mech I guess?
Mech is different, there is normally harassment and mech doesn't fling free units out so games don't draw out like sh vs sh.
the sh just never introduces interesting play.
The mere design of the unit forces it into massing it which causes the most dull gameplay ever. Blizz really fucked up with the design of it, they should have just made a long range unit instead of some free unit spawner.
ZvP is already seeing too many crappy superlong games because of it.
I think the unit could be fine without a complete redesign. I think it could be made interesting if you increase the amount of time between locust spawns rather significantly, but increase the Swarm Host's movement speed by quite a bit. That way they can do hit and run attacks and be really deadly in the hands of people that move their army and micro well, but they could still be very vulnerable between locust spawns for much longer. They've feel more Zerg'ish that way too, I think.
As long as we are offering our thoughts on game design...
I would make the swarm host extremely slow but allow it to spawn units when not burrowed. It would allow for really interesting overlord ferrying and such. I think the locusts would have to be rebalanced to account for the change, but I think they would be a lot more fun to watch and allow great players to do some really cool things with them.
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
I may be wrong but Swarm host vs Swarm host will never happen that way I believe, because mobility is much more effective against swarm host than anything else.. So swarm host vs ultra-lings-vipers?
Oh trust me it'll happen if there is no air thread. Ultras actually can't really fight vs swarmhosts (unless there aren't many).
On May 23 2013 09:08 Oboeman wrote:
On May 23 2013 09:04 blade55555 wrote:
On May 23 2013 09:03 DeathProfessor wrote: Current ZvZ is just ughhh I am not sure if I prefer this to Muta Wars, really hard to even tell who wins battles until the very end, the units are boring to watch fight, and just bleh strategies.
You think this is bad eh? Wait until mutas are no longer viable/common and get ready for some really exciting swarmhost vs swarmhost action with mass static defense. It seems to be what most people want anyway (for some weird reason ).
same reason people have hard-on for mech I guess?
Mech is different, there is normally harassment and mech doesn't fling free units out so games don't draw out like sh vs sh.
the sh just never introduces interesting play.
The mere design of the unit forces it into massing it which causes the most dull gameplay ever. Blizz really fucked up with the design of it, they should have just made a long range unit instead of some free unit spawner.
ZvP is already seeing too many crappy superlong games because of it.
I think the unit could be fine without a complete redesign. I think it could be made interesting if you increase the amount of time between locust spawns rather significantly, but increase the Swarm Host's movement speed by quite a bit. That way they can do hit and run attacks and be really deadly in the hands of people that move their army and micro well, but they could still be very vulnerable between locust spawns for much longer. They've feel more Zerg'ish that way too, I think.
Which would make them useless since you'd have 30-60 army supply that can't do shit for large periods of time and the protoss player would just have to kill off one wave of locusts, maybe take a few losses then just roll over the zerg while locusts are still on CD.
On May 23 2013 09:32 Vertigro wrote: Does anyone know if suppy is still going korea to train for a period of time? Remember it being spoken about around april, although I wasn't sure if it was a really awful april fools or not
He may. As he is going win WCS america (fanboy in me) he probably won't but if in some alternate reality he doesn't then it's possible. He'll still be dedicated to SC2 this summer.
On May 23 2013 09:32 Vertigro wrote: Does anyone know if suppy is still going korea to train for a period of time? Remember it being spoken about around april, although I wasn't sure if it was a really awful april fools or not
He may. As he is going win WCS america (fanboy in me) he probably won't but if in some alternate reality he doesn't then it's possible. He'll still be dedicated to SC2 this summer.
Hope he remains dedicated, the potential man... it burns! :D
0:00 HerO spawns in the top left Suppy spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for Suppy pylon block in the natural by HerO forge first for HerO HerO lets the pylon finish
3:00 Nexus for HerO cannon for HerO Gateway for HerO hatch for Suppy after killing the pylon
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Suppy HerO scouts the 3rd of Suppy
5:00 cybernetics core for HerO 3rd gas for HerO
6:00 double gas for Suppy +1 attack started for HerO mothership core for HerO
7:00 3rd base for HerO zealot and stalker pressuring Suppy's natural Lair for Suppy Suppy makes some more lings and HerO bac soff cannon at the 3rd of HerO 2nd stalker and mothership core meet up at Suppy's natural another gas for Suppy 3 more gates for HerO
8:00 ling speed for Suppy spore in the natural for Suppy evo chamber for Suppy Twilight council for HerO another gas for Suppy Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 rnage attack startedf or Suppy 3 more gates for HerO
9:00 Blink research started for HerO +2 attack started for HerO Suppy making 4 more spores Hydra range started for Suppy Hydras started for Suppy 2 more gates for HerO
10:00 Roach warren for Suppy HerO takes a supply lead robo for HerO infestation pit for Suppy
0:00 HerO spawns in the top left Suppy spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for Suppy pylon block in the natural by HerO forge first for HerO HerO lets the pylon finish
3:00 Nexus for HerO cannon for HerO Gateway for HerO hatch for Suppy after killing the pylon
4:00 double gas for HerO 3rd base for Suppy HerO scouts the 3rd of Suppy
5:00 cybernetics core for HerO 3rd gas for HerO
6:00 double gas for Suppy +1 attack started for HerO mothership core for HerO
7:00 3rd base for HerO zealot and stalker pressuring Suppy's natural Lair for Suppy Suppy makes some more lings and HerO bac soff cannon at the 3rd of HerO 2nd stalker and mothership core meet up at Suppy's natural another gas for Suppy 3 more gates for HerO
8:00 ling speed for Suppy spore in the natural for Suppy evo chamber for Suppy Twilight council for HerO another gas for Suppy Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 rnage attack startedf or Suppy 3 more gates for HerO
9:00 Blink research started for HerO +2 attack started for HerO Suppy making 4 more spores Hydra range started for Suppy Hydras started for Suppy 2 more gates for HerO
10:00 Roach warren for Suppy HerO takes a supply lead robo for HerO infestation pit for Suppy
11:00 Hydra speed for Suppy Roach speed for Suppy HerO moving across the map with stalkers and sentries as +2 and blink finish forward pylon building for HerO macro hatch for Suppy timewarp on the hydras HerO blinks on the units of Suppy
12:00 Suppy loses a bunch of Hydras +2 range attack for Suppy HerO moving towards the 3rd of Suppy forcefields go down Suppy ggs! HerO takes a 1-0 lead!
On May 23 2013 09:48 mongmong wrote: Hero has so many strats to use...I think he is more kind of a type to excel in individual leagues than team leagues 0_0
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
On May 23 2013 09:48 mongmong wrote: Hero has so many strats to use...I think he is more kind of a type to excel in individual leagues than team leagues 0_0
He's doing pretty damn well in PL currently.
I know, but even when hero was winning championships and placing high in wcs asia/korea, he never managed to pull Taeja-like dominance in team leagues. Not saying Hero is bad in team leagues but based on how Hero plays the game, individual leagues which are always BoX series give him more edge.
On May 23 2013 09:48 mongmong wrote: Hero has so many strats to use...I think he is more kind of a type to excel in individual leagues than team leagues 0_0
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
On May 23 2013 09:48 mongmong wrote: Hero has so many strats to use...I think he is more kind of a type to excel in individual leagues than team leagues 0_0
He's doing pretty damn well in PL currently.
I know, but even when hero was winning championships and placing high in wcs asia/korea, he never managed to pull Taeja-like dominance in team leagues. Not saying Hero is bad in team leagues but based on how Hero plays the game, individual leagues which are always BoX series give him more edge.
That was true in the past for sure, but lately EG-TL is Team Hero, if Hero goes down without winning more than one game they just lose outright.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
Indeed, signing Suppy was insane, in a good way! It was risky but seeing where he is at it was clearly worth it.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Thorzain and Stephano are pretty big EU names, hard to say though, he did have a good reception at Dreamhack.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
On May 23 2013 09:48 mongmong wrote: Hero has so many strats to use...I think he is more kind of a type to excel in individual leagues than team leagues 0_0
He's doing pretty damn well in PL currently.
I know, but even when hero was winning championships and placing high in wcs asia/korea, he never managed to pull Taeja-like dominance in team leagues. Not saying Hero is bad in team leagues but based on how Hero plays the game, individual leagues which are always BoX series give him more edge.
That was true in the past for sure, but lately EG-TL is Team Hero, if Hero goes down without winning more than one game they just lose outright.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
0:00 HerO spawns in the top left Suppy spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for Suppy Nexus first for HerO hatch for Suppy forge for Suppy
3:00 scouting probe of HerO is killed cannon for HerO gateway for HerO
4:00 3rd base for Suppy double gas for HerO
5:00 cybernetics core for HerO 3rd gas for HerO stargate for HerO
6:00 double gas for Suppy 4th gas for HerO +1 attack started for HerO phoenix production started for HerO
7:00 ling speed for Suppy 3 more gates for HerO Roach warren for Suppy Robo for herO
8:00 phoenixes started to kill overlords another gas for Suppy Roaches coming out for SUppy spores started for Suppy mothership core for HerO
9:00 Void ray started for HerO immortal production started for HerO suppy moving across the map zealot runby to the 3rd of Suppy roaches and lings attacking at the natural of HerO but blocked by forcefields forge of HerO goes down forcefields block out the roaches and the lings are cleaned up
10:00 Suppy losing drones at his 3rd Lair half way done for Suppy Suppy cleans up the roaches at his 3rd HerO takes a supply lead 2 more gates for HerO Hydralisk den for Suppy forge restarted for HerO phoenixes kill the queen in the natural Robo bay for HerO Roach speed for Suppy double evo for Suppy
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
You havent been following the context of the conversation. Clearly.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
What will EG do with all of that money?
Pay Jaedong, then things get interesting. Don't forget, though, NaNiwa was just added to the books.
Extremely frustrating to see Suppy not build more than a handful of spore crawlers. I just don't understand Zergs who fail to do this . . . is it really worth losing like 20 drones and 5 queens to Phoenix when you can just build 4-5 more spores?
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Your point being? All the guy said was JD seems to be the most popular EG player in EU.
Realistically speaking Stephano, Thorzain and Demuslim would all be fan favorites over him in any EU tournament.
0:00 HerO spawns in the top left Suppy spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for Suppy Nexus first for HerO hatch for Suppy forge for Suppy
3:00 scouting probe of HerO is killed cannon for HerO gateway for HerO
4:00 3rd base for Suppy double gas for HerO
5:00 cybernetics core for HerO 3rd gas for HerO stargate for HerO
6:00 double gas for Suppy 4th gas for HerO +1 attack started for HerO phoenix production started for HerO
7:00 ling speed for Suppy 3 more gates for HerO Roach warren for Suppy Robo for herO
8:00 phoenixes started to kill overlords another gas for Suppy Roaches coming out for SUppy spores started for Suppy mothership core for HerO
9:00 Void ray started for HerO immortal production started for HerO suppy moving across the map zealot runby to the 3rd of Suppy roaches and lings attacking at the natural of HerO but blocked by forcefields forge of HerO goes down forcefields block out the roaches and the lings are cleaned up
10:00 Suppy losing drones at his 3rd Lair half way done for Suppy Suppy cleans up the roaches at his 3rd HerO takes a supply lead 2 more gates for HerO Hydralisk den for Suppy forge restarted for HerO phoenixes kill the queen in the natural Robo bay for HerO Roach speed for Suppy double evo for Suppy
11:00 +1 armor for HerO Warp prism for HerO Twilight council for HerO +1 range attack for Suppy cannon at the future 3rd of HerO
12:00 infestation pit for Suppy warp prism speed for HerO 3rd base for HerO Colossus production started for HerO phoenixes kill off some more queens
13:00 Hive for Suppy Extended thermal lance research started for HerO HerO hallucinating warp prisms and moving them around the map real warp prism drops 2 immortals in the main of Suppy zealots warped in the main of Suppy Suppy is able to force the warp prism and immortals away
14:00 blink research started for herO 2nd robo finishes for HerO double colossus production for HerO +2 attack started for HerO warp prism drops immortals and warps in zealots at the natural of Suppy warp prism is killed by queens zealots and immortals are cleaned up
15:00 +2 range attack started for Suppy Suppy has lost 20 drones now Viper production started for Suppy hallucinated warp prism pulls Suppy's army back into his main 2 more gates for HerO
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
What will EG do with all of that money?
buy a chinese dota team
The owner of iG is so rich he finds millions dollars of bills in between his couch cushions.
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Your point being? All the guy said was JD seems to be the most popular EG player in EU.
Realistically speaking Stephano, Thorzain and Demuslim would all be fan favorites over him in any EU tournament.
Stephano won't be playing SC2 during the period in discussion. Thorzain and DeMu over JD? I'm not a European so perhaps I'm a bit off, but I think it's an interesting conversation.
On May 23 2013 09:31 LighT. wrote: [quote] o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
What will EG do with all of that money?
buy a chinese dota team
The owner of iG is so rich he finds millions dollars of bills in between his couch cushions.
On May 23 2013 09:31 LighT. wrote: [quote] o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Idra's contract is up. By November,Stephano won't be playing. JD's contract will be up. Huk's contract will probably be up.
What will EG do with all of that money?
buy a chinese dota team
The owner of iG is so rich he finds millions dollars of bills in between his couch cushions.
yea i know, these teams have 10x more money than EG
On May 23 2013 09:30 magnaflow wrote: One of the best decisions EG has ever made was signing this kid to their roster. Future face of the team IMO
o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Your point being? All the guy said was JD seems to be the most popular EG player in EU.
Realistically speaking Stephano, Thorzain and Demuslim would all be fan favorites over him in any EU tournament.
Stephano won't be playing SC2 during the period in discussion. Thorzain and DeMu over JD? I'm not a European so perhaps I'm a bit off, but I think it's an interesting conversation.
Let's start with this: when was the last time you saw a crowd cheer for a KR player over a foreigner at MLG, DH or similar tournament?
0:00 HerO spawns in the top left Suppy spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for Suppy Nexus first for HerO hatch for Suppy forge for Suppy
3:00 scouting probe of HerO is killed cannon for HerO gateway for HerO
4:00 3rd base for Suppy double gas for HerO
5:00 cybernetics core for HerO 3rd gas for HerO stargate for HerO
6:00 double gas for Suppy 4th gas for HerO +1 attack started for HerO phoenix production started for HerO
7:00 ling speed for Suppy 3 more gates for HerO Roach warren for Suppy Robo for herO
8:00 phoenixes started to kill overlords another gas for Suppy Roaches coming out for SUppy spores started for Suppy mothership core for HerO
9:00 Void ray started for HerO immortal production started for HerO suppy moving across the map zealot runby to the 3rd of Suppy roaches and lings attacking at the natural of HerO but blocked by forcefields forge of HerO goes down forcefields block out the roaches and the lings are cleaned up
10:00 Suppy losing drones at his 3rd Lair half way done for Suppy Suppy cleans up the roaches at his 3rd HerO takes a supply lead 2 more gates for HerO Hydralisk den for Suppy forge restarted for HerO phoenixes kill the queen in the natural Robo bay for HerO Roach speed for Suppy double evo for Suppy
11:00 +1 armor for HerO Warp prism for HerO Twilight council for HerO +1 range attack for Suppy cannon at the future 3rd of HerO
12:00 infestation pit for Suppy warp prism speed for HerO 3rd base for HerO Colossus production started for HerO phoenixes kill off some more queens
13:00 Hive for Suppy Extended thermal lance research started for HerO HerO hallucinating warp prisms and moving them around the map real warp prism drops 2 immortals in the main of Suppy zealots warped in the main of Suppy Suppy is able to force the warp prism and immortals away
14:00 blink research started for herO 2nd robo finishes for HerO double colossus production for HerO +2 attack started for HerO warp prism drops immortals and warps in zealots at the natural of Suppy warp prism is killed by queens zealots and immortals are cleaned up
15:00 +2 range attack started for Suppy Suppy has lost 20 drones now Viper production started for Suppy hallucinated warp prism pulls Suppy's army back into his main 2 more gates for HerO
16:00 another warp prism for HerO dark shrine for HerO 3 more evos for Viper energy for Suppy HerO adding on more gates
17:00 Suppy is maxed vs 165 supply Suppy up to 13 queens Void ray that was denying creep is killed by queens Templar archives for HerO +3 attack started for HerO HerO sending more hallucinated warp prisms across the map along with a real one Suppy throwing up a bunch of static defense at home
18:00 zealots droped in the main of Suppy killing sporecrawlers DTs warped into the main of suppy Hydralisk den is killed by DTs 4th base for Suppy DTs warped in at the 4th of Suppy Warp prism pulled by vipers and queens main army of engages Suppy outside the 4th of Suppy 4th of Suppy is canceled
19:00 blinding cloud on the army of HerO HerO backs off almost all the queen energy was used in the last battle 4th restarted for Suppy on the left side this time Vipers regaining energy
20:00 +3 range attack started for Suppy DT forces a cancel on the 4th of Suppy HerO pushing to the natural of Suppy abduct on 3 of the colossi HerO backs up to a ramp and Suppy has to retreat 4th base for HerO on the right side HTs warped in for HerO
0:00 HerO spawns in the top left Suppy spawns in the bottom right
2:00 pool first for Suppy Nexus first for HerO hatch for Suppy forge for Suppy
3:00 scouting probe of HerO is killed cannon for HerO gateway for HerO
4:00 3rd base for Suppy double gas for HerO
5:00 cybernetics core for HerO 3rd gas for HerO stargate for HerO
6:00 double gas for Suppy 4th gas for HerO +1 attack started for HerO phoenix production started for HerO
7:00 ling speed for Suppy 3 more gates for HerO Roach warren for Suppy Robo for herO
8:00 phoenixes started to kill overlords another gas for Suppy Roaches coming out for SUppy spores started for Suppy mothership core for HerO
9:00 Void ray started for HerO immortal production started for HerO suppy moving across the map zealot runby to the 3rd of Suppy roaches and lings attacking at the natural of HerO but blocked by forcefields forge of HerO goes down forcefields block out the roaches and the lings are cleaned up
10:00 Suppy losing drones at his 3rd Lair half way done for Suppy Suppy cleans up the roaches at his 3rd HerO takes a supply lead 2 more gates for HerO Hydralisk den for Suppy forge restarted for HerO phoenixes kill the queen in the natural Robo bay for HerO Roach speed for Suppy double evo for Suppy
11:00 +1 armor for HerO Warp prism for HerO Twilight council for HerO +1 range attack for Suppy cannon at the future 3rd of HerO
12:00 infestation pit for Suppy warp prism speed for HerO 3rd base for HerO Colossus production started for HerO phoenixes kill off some more queens
13:00 Hive for Suppy Extended thermal lance research started for HerO HerO hallucinating warp prisms and moving them around the map real warp prism drops 2 immortals in the main of Suppy zealots warped in the main of Suppy Suppy is able to force the warp prism and immortals away
14:00 blink research started for herO 2nd robo finishes for HerO double colossus production for HerO +2 attack started for HerO warp prism drops immortals and warps in zealots at the natural of Suppy warp prism is killed by queens zealots and immortals are cleaned up
15:00 +2 range attack started for Suppy Suppy has lost 20 drones now Viper production started for Suppy hallucinated warp prism pulls Suppy's army back into his main 2 more gates for HerO
16:00 another warp prism for HerO dark shrine for HerO 3 more evos for Viper energy for Suppy HerO adding on more gates
17:00 Suppy is maxed vs 165 supply Suppy up to 13 queens Void ray that was denying creep is killed by queens Templar archives for HerO +3 attack started for HerO HerO sending more hallucinated warp prisms across the map along with a real one Suppy throwing up a bunch of static defense at home
18:00 zealots droped in the main of Suppy killing sporecrawlers DTs warped into the main of suppy Hydralisk den is killed by DTs 4th base for Suppy DTs warped in at the 4th of Suppy Warp prism pulled by vipers and queens main army of engages Suppy outside the 4th of Suppy 4th of Suppy is canceled
19:00 blinding cloud on the army of HerO HerO backs off almost all the queen energy was used in the last battle 4th restarted for Suppy on the left side this time Vipers regaining energy
20:00 +3 range attack started for Suppy DT forces a cancel on the 4th of Suppy HerO pushing to the natural of Suppy abduct on 3 of the colossi HerO backs up to a ramp and Suppy has to retreat 4th base for HerO on the right side HTs warped in for HerO
21:00 Suppy tries to come up the ramp from 2 sides to engage the army of HerO forcefields are used by HerO suppy is losing tons of units HerO takes a 40 supply lead Suppy ggs as his army dies HerO wins 2-0 and advances to the Ro8!
On May 23 2013 09:31 LighT. wrote: [quote] o_o... JD man.. The dong.
You think he's sticking around and not going back to T8?
No. Unsure if its a "rental" or free-agent signing but T8 would rather not take on someone like JD given what he'd likely demand and the fact that T8 basically runs on KeSPA funding with no real main sponsor.
JD gets market value. and if EG wants to continue PL for future season, they absolutely need JD for marketing + draw purposes, he's a key asset.
As long as JD is on EG though, he will be the face of EG, not Suppy, Demuslim or Huk, although it may change if one of them starts to have a massive break out and win tournaments left and right.
JD is the face of EG Korea but not in NA or EU
EG Na, probably not. Not sure about EG.EU though, he seems to be the most popular there..hmm..
Yeah, clearly JD is bigger than Stephano. Clearly.
Yeah, clearly Stephano's gonna be playing SC2 in November. Clearly.
Your point being? All the guy said was JD seems to be the most popular EG player in EU.
Realistically speaking Stephano, Thorzain and Demuslim would all be fan favorites over him in any EU tournament.
Stephano won't be playing SC2 during the period in discussion. Thorzain and DeMu over JD? I'm not a European so perhaps I'm a bit off, but I think it's an interesting conversation.
Let's start with this: when was the last time you saw a crowd cheer for a KR player over a foreigner at MLG, DH or similar tournament?
Hmm, perhaps Flash or something but I see your point. We sure love the natives :D
Suppy looked a little flustered there, can't say I understand building so many queens instead of hydras or infestors, and not being able to get a fourth
Hero played well today, he played like a mid-high tier Proleague player which he has become, really nice to see him not losing to foreigners in silly ways anymore.
Man when Hero is calm and confident he plays alot more solid this is the power when hes not nervous! TL fighting the last fight was really well positioned
Sorry, but could someone post the schedule for ro8 and beyond? Not sure where to go to find it...I'd assume it's soon? Because everyone is already in NYC?
On May 23 2013 10:15 SeaSmoke wrote: Sorry, but could someone post the schedule for ro8 and beyond? Not sure where to go to find it...I'd assume it's soon? Because everyone is already in NYC?
If I had to guess I would say it will be on the weekend following the WCS EU ro8 + ro4 + finals weekend, which is this weekend.
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top right Revival spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for Revival hatch first for Scarlett pool for Scarett gas for Scarlett Hatch for Revival
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett
5:00 spine in the natural for Scarlett queen of scarlett kills an overlord of Revival Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival Lair for Scarlett 4 gas for Revival
The worst part of the feedback I've seen so far is honestly about the quality of the games and the players participating. With so many people claiming that the skill level of these players was sub par, how do you think that motivates these players to compete in another event like this or any other? It's no wonder Kane didn't even take his trophy with him.
When they were showing the players in the back room I saw the trophy on the floor just sitting there, kind of random.
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top right Revival spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for Revival hatch first for Scarlett pool for Scarett gas for Scarlett Hatch for Revival
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett
5:00 spine in the natural for Scarlett queen of scarlett kills an overlord of Revival Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival Lair for Scarlett 4 gas for Revival
6:00 2nd evo for Revival scarlett goes up to 4 gas Lair for Revival
7:00 +1 range attack for Revival Spire for Scarlett +1 carapace for Revival 3rd base for Scarlett
8:00 Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival overseer scouts the spire mutas started for Scarlett
9:00 Hydralisk den started for Revival infestation pit for Scarlett Roaches of Revival starting to move out on the map Scarlett taking her 5th and 6th gas Hydra range for Revival Revival retreats back into his natural
10:00 mutas starting to pick off overlords baneling speed for Scarlett Hydra range for Revival 2-2 started for Revival pathogen glands for Scarlett spores deny Scarlett's mutas from the natural
The worst part of the feedback I've seen so far is honestly about the quality of the games and the players participating. With so many people claiming that the skill level of these players was sub par, how do you think that motivates these players to compete in another event like this or any other? It's no wonder Kane didn't even take his trophy with him.
When they were showing the players in the back room I saw the trophy on the floor just sitting there, kind of random.
Who's in NY right now. Everyone that already lives there, so like the TL HQ, the ro16 MLG, and maybe some of the shoutcraft guys. If you include the other pro players already in the area, its maybe more likely they all got drunk and he just left it at MLG?
On May 23 2013 04:45 CrazyBirdman wrote: HerO is the obvious favorite given his recent performances but it won't be a walkover for him. Three strong Zerg in the group can make his life very hard.
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top right Revival spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for Revival hatch first for Scarlett pool for Scarett gas for Scarlett Hatch for Revival
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett
5:00 spine in the natural for Scarlett queen of scarlett kills an overlord of Revival Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival Lair for Scarlett 4 gas for Revival
6:00 2nd evo for Revival scarlett goes up to 4 gas Lair for Revival
7:00 +1 range attack for Revival Spire for Scarlett +1 carapace for Revival 3rd base for Scarlett
8:00 Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival overseer scouts the spire mutas started for Scarlett
9:00 Hydralisk den started for Revival infestation pit for Scarlett Roaches of Revival starting to move out on the map Scarlett taking her 5th and 6th gas Hydra range for Revival Revival retreats back into his natural
10:00 mutas starting to pick off overlords baneling speed for Scarlett Hydra range for Revival 2-2 started for Revival pathogen glands for Scarlett spores deny Scarlett's mutas from the natural
11:00 mutas looking to harass the main but Hydras are out now hydra speed for Revival Roach warren for Scarlett +1 range attack for Scarlett Revival moving out with a roach hydra queen army
12:00 Scarlett morphing 25 banelings at home Roach speed for Scarlett Roaches started for Scarlett infestors out for Scarlett Revival waiting for creep because of how slow the queens are 2 overseers of Revival are picked off
13:00 Revival moving across the map again spines repositioning for Scarlett at the attack path 2-2 finishes for Revival Revival tries to send a few roaches to the 3rd but scarlett pushes it away Scarlett goes into engage but banelings hit a lot of roaches and queens instead of Hydras
14:00 3rd base finishes for Revival Revival pushing through Scarlett's defenses Revival 50 supply ahead Scarlett ggs! Revival wins game 1!
On May 23 2013 10:29 Shellshock1122 wrote: (...) 10:00 mutas starting to pick off overlords baneling speed for Scarlett Hydra range for Revival 2-2 started for Revival pathogen glands for Scarlett spores deny Scarlett's mutas from the natural
Well, this is interesting. Apparently my stream managed to somehow build up a huge lag, since I was only at the four-minute-mark when you posted this. Refreshing the stream made me jump to minute 13. O.o
The worst part of the feedback I've seen so far is honestly about the quality of the games and the players participating. With so many people claiming that the skill level of these players was sub par, how do you think that motivates these players to compete in another event like this or any other? It's no wonder Kane didn't even take his trophy with him.
When they were showing the players in the back room I saw the trophy on the floor just sitting there, kind of random.
Who's in NY right now. Everyone that already lives there, so like the TL HQ, the ro16 MLG, and maybe some of the shoutcraft guys. If you include the other pro players already in the area, its maybe more likely they all got drunk and he just left it at MLG?
Maybe for some reason he thought it would be difficult to go across the border with it? He is Canadian right?
On May 23 2013 10:33 TheBadOmen wrote: I'm surprised this timing worked. Scarlett had all the time in the world to prepare. I guess it's just a strong build
She messed up the engagement entirely. It doesn't seem a strong build to me. Its so slow AND its telegraphed to the opponent. It should never work.
it's a tough situation, once your banelings are out there like that, you expect hydras to be there but all you see are a bunch of queens and roaches in front, if you run away you just basically threw away like 12 banelings for nothing, if you go searching for hydras that you're not even sure where they are or what not you could also lose a ton of banes... lose-lose situation really. she's probably kicking herself over sending them out so early
another terrible game, really how can they not be demolishing this style of revival. The guy is doing the same build each time, passive 2 base play into roach/hydra. Just take map control, with or without muta and counter it with just more roaches...
Scarlett going banes there was a totally stupid move, they suck against that combination. You can't reliably get them into hydra's ever really. ling/roach/infestor would have done just fine, could probably even defend with swarmhosts on this map.
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 Hatch first for both players gas for both players pool for both players
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for both players evo chamber for Scarlett baneling nest for Revival
5:00 +1 melee started for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett Scarlett making a bunch of lings as speed finishes Revival tries to morph some banes outside of Scarlett's natural but Scarlett finds them and forces cancels another gas for Scarlett
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 Hatch first for both players gas for both players pool for both players
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for both players evo chamber for Scarlett baneling nest for Revival
5:00 +1 melee started for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett Scarlett making a bunch of lings as speed finishes Revival tries to morph some banes outside of Scarlett's natural but Scarlett finds them and forces cancels another gas for Scarlett
6:00 spine in the natural for Revival Lair for both players Scarlett looking to put on some ling bane pressure Scarlett dodges the defensive banes int he natural and the top of the main ramp and backs off
7:00 Roach warren for Revival evo for Revival +1 carapace for Scarlett
8:00 infestation pit for Scarlett infestation pit for Revival Roach speed for REvival spine in the natural for Scarlett +1 range attack started for Scarlett 3rd base for Scarlett
9:00 pathogen glands for Scarlett pathogen glands for Revival 3rd base for Revival ling pressure from Scarlett forces Revival back into his natural after picking off a few roaches and queens spine at the 3rd of Revival is killed
10:00 Hive for Scarlett infestors started for both players lings force a cancel on the 3rd of Revival 3rd base restarted for Revival
you should win if you bomb a ling into a pool :x Looks like she wanted to go all out on lings banes, but decided otherwise after she revealed the early lings to the offensive banes.
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 Hatch first for both players gas for both players pool for both players
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for both players evo chamber for Scarlett baneling nest for Revival
5:00 +1 melee started for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett Scarlett making a bunch of lings as speed finishes Revival tries to morph some banes outside of Scarlett's natural but Scarlett finds them and forces cancels another gas for Scarlett
6:00 spine in the natural for Revival Lair for both players Scarlett looking to put on some ling bane pressure Scarlett dodges the defensive banes int he natural and the top of the main ramp and backs off
7:00 Roach warren for Revival evo for Revival +1 carapace for Scarlett
8:00 infestation pit for Scarlett infestation pit for Revival Roach speed for REvival spine in the natural for Scarlett +1 range attack started for Scarlett 3rd base for Scarlett
9:00 pathogen glands for Scarlett pathogen glands for Revival 3rd base for Revival ling pressure from Scarlett forces Revival back into his natural after picking off a few roaches and queens spine at the 3rd of Revival is killed
10:00 Hive for Scarlett infestors started for both players lings force a cancel on the 3rd of Revival 3rd base restarted for Revival
11:00 burrow research for Scarlett +1 carapace for Revival spines going up for Scarlett at home
12:00 +2 melee started for Scarlett ultralisk cavern for Scarlett ling runby to the 3rd of Revival is chased away 4th base for Scarlett at the center left
13:00 Chitinous plating for Scarlett ultras started for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Revival burrowed infestors of Scarlett moving into the main of Revival IT thrown out in the natural of Revival It thrown out in the main of Revival
14:00 natural hatch of Revival is killed more ultras coming out for Scarlett infestors from the natural all escape IT thrown into the 3rd of Revival ling runby to the 3rd of Revival with Revival;s army in his main 3rd of Revival is killed
15:00 natural restarted for Revival Revival moving across the map with his roaches and infestors more ultras on the way for Scarlett fungal on some of the roaches of Revival
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
2:00 Hatch first for both players gas for both players pool for both players
3:00 drones and queens
4:00 ling speed for both players evo chamber for Scarlett baneling nest for Revival
5:00 +1 melee started for Scarlett baneling nest for Scarlett Scarlett making a bunch of lings as speed finishes Revival tries to morph some banes outside of Scarlett's natural but Scarlett finds them and forces cancels another gas for Scarlett
6:00 spine in the natural for Revival Lair for both players Scarlett looking to put on some ling bane pressure Scarlett dodges the defensive banes int he natural and the top of the main ramp and backs off
7:00 Roach warren for Revival evo for Revival +1 carapace for Scarlett
8:00 infestation pit for Scarlett infestation pit for Revival Roach speed for REvival spine in the natural for Scarlett +1 range attack started for Scarlett 3rd base for Scarlett
9:00 pathogen glands for Scarlett pathogen glands for Revival 3rd base for Revival ling pressure from Scarlett forces Revival back into his natural after picking off a few roaches and queens spine at the 3rd of Revival is killed
10:00 Hive for Scarlett infestors started for both players lings force a cancel on the 3rd of Revival 3rd base restarted for Revival
11:00 burrow research for Scarlett +1 carapace for Revival spines going up for Scarlett at home
12:00 +2 melee started for Scarlett ultralisk cavern for Scarlett ling runby to the 3rd of Revival is chased away 4th base for Scarlett at the center left
13:00 Chitinous plating for Scarlett ultras started for Scarlett Hydralisk den for Revival burrowed infestors of Scarlett moving into the main of Revival IT thrown out in the natural of Revival It thrown out in the main of Revival
14:00 natural hatch of Revival is killed more ultras coming out for Scarlett infestors from the natural all escape IT thrown into the 3rd of Revival ling runby to the 3rd of Revival with Revival;s army in his main 3rd of Revival is killed
15:00 natural restarted for Revival Revival moving across the map with his roaches and infestors more ultras on the way for Scarlett fungal on some of the roaches of Revival
16:00 Roaches killing Revival's whole army Revival loses 80 supply in under a minute Revival 81 supply ahead ITs thrown out and Scarlett backs off Scarlett is now maxed vs 108 supply 3rd base rebuilding for Revival
17:00 more spines for Scarlett Roach attack tot he 4th of Scarlett is deflected +3 melee for Scarlett adrenal gland for Scarlett Revival ggs as his army dies to ultras again Scarlett ties it up 1-1!
On May 23 2013 10:51 Shellshock1122 wrote: If you dont remember this was the same (or at least very similar) build that Scarlett was owning all her ZvZs with in WCS NA last year
It was similar not 100% same because in the past she did double evo upgrades not just single. But yeah very identical this was popular for a little bit when stephano/scarlett were doing this and winning. Then it got figured out
On May 23 2013 10:51 Shellshock1122 wrote: If you dont remember this was the same (or at least very similar) build that Scarlett was owning all her ZvZs with in WCS NA last year
Very different build. Same unit composition though.
Did she go for double evo last time? I just remember it being ling infestor ultra but dont remember the exact details I just remember her dancing her ultras in the finals. good stuff
On May 23 2013 10:51 Shellshock1122 wrote: If you dont remember this was the same (or at least very similar) build that Scarlett was owning all her ZvZs with in WCS NA last year
It was similar not 100% same because in the past she did double evo upgrades not just single. But yeah very identical this was popular for a little bit when stephano/scarlett were doing this and winning. Then it got figured out
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
1:00 10 pool for Revival
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett 6 lings started for Revival pool for Scarlett overlord of Scarlett spots the lings on the way more lings coming out for Revival
3:00 gas for Scarlett lings starting to attack Scarlett's natural hatch hatch started for Revival Scarlett cancels her natural hatch lings out for Scarlett
4:00 Revival sends his lings into the main Scarlett loses 3 drones before pushing the lings away hatch restarted for Scarlett Revival takes the drone lead
5:00 ling speed started for Scarlett Scarlett sending her lings across the map queen and lings of Revival push Scarlett's lings back baneling nest for Scarlett spine in the natural for Revival
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
1:00 10 pool for Revival
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett 6 lings started for Revival pool for Scarlett overlord of Scarlett spots the lings on the way more lings coming out for Revival
3:00 gas for Scarlett lings starting to attack Scarlett's natural hatch hatch started for Revival Scarlett cancels her natural hatch lings out for Scarlett
4:00 Revival sends his lings into the main Scarlett loses 3 drones before pushing the lings away hatch restarted for Scarlett Revival takes the drone lead
5:00 ling speed started for Scarlett Scarlett sending her lings across the map queen and lings of Revival push Scarlett's lings back baneling nest for Scarlett spine in the natural for Revival
6:00 lings get into Scarlett's main and get a full scout 2nd spine started for Revival 2nd gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett gets some lings into the natural and main of Revival as speed finishes double gas for Revival Scarlett scouts everything Lair for Scarlett another spine for Revival 2 more gas for Scarlett
8:00 2 more gas for Revival banelings trying to morph in the main of Revival but they are scouted and canceled Lair for Revival Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival Spire for Scarlett 3rd base for Scarlett
9:00 ling speed started for Revival +1 range attack for Revival 3rd base for Revival Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival Revival moving a spine to his 3rd lings pick off a queen
10:00 infestation pit for Revival overseer scouts the spire of Scarlett mutas started for Scarlett ling runby into the main of Revival starts picking off drones baneling speed for Scarlett pathogen glands for Revival
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
1:00 10 pool for Revival
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett 6 lings started for Revival pool for Scarlett overlord of Scarlett spots the lings on the way more lings coming out for Revival
3:00 gas for Scarlett lings starting to attack Scarlett's natural hatch hatch started for Revival Scarlett cancels her natural hatch lings out for Scarlett
4:00 Revival sends his lings into the main Scarlett loses 3 drones before pushing the lings away hatch restarted for Scarlett Revival takes the drone lead
5:00 ling speed started for Scarlett Scarlett sending her lings across the map queen and lings of Revival push Scarlett's lings back baneling nest for Scarlett spine in the natural for Revival
6:00 lings get into Scarlett's main and get a full scout 2nd spine started for Revival 2nd gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett gets some lings into the natural and main of Revival as speed finishes double gas for Revival Scarlett scouts everything Lair for Scarlett another spine for Revival 2 more gas for Scarlett
8:00 2 more gas for Revival banelings trying to morph in the main of Revival but they are scouted and canceled Lair for Revival Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival Spire for Scarlett 3rd base for Scarlett
9:00 ling speed started for Revival +1 range attack for Revival 3rd base for Revival Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival Revival moving a spine to his 3rd lings pick off a queen
10:00 infestation pit for Revival overseer scouts the spire of Scarlett mutas started for Scarlett ling runby into the main of Revival starts picking off drones baneling speed for Scarlett pathogen glands for Revival
11:00 7 spores for Revival Spores deny mutas from the 3rd of Revival Scarlett making a bunch of lings +1 carapace for Revival Hydralisk den for Revival 22 banelings morphing for Scarlett
22:00 infestor production started for Revival Revival scouts the banelings moving across the map Scarlett goes in for the attack as baneling speed finishes banelings kill a bunch of drones in the main of Scarlett Roach warren for Scarlett
13:00 Roach speed for scarlett evo chamber for Scarlett Raoch speed for Scarlett
14:00 Hydra speed for Revival more infestors for Revival mutas flying around killing overlords Revival ahead by 10 supply +1 range attack for Scarlett
15:00 Hydras coming out for Revival Burrow research for Scarlett mutas deny the drone going to build the 4th for Revival Burrow movement for Scarlett hydra range for Revival burrow research for Revival Scarlett breaking down the middle rocks
0:00 Scarlett spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
1:00 10 pool for Revival
2:00 Hatch first for Scarlett 6 lings started for Revival pool for Scarlett overlord of Scarlett spots the lings on the way more lings coming out for Revival
3:00 gas for Scarlett lings starting to attack Scarlett's natural hatch hatch started for Revival Scarlett cancels her natural hatch lings out for Scarlett
4:00 Revival sends his lings into the main Scarlett loses 3 drones before pushing the lings away hatch restarted for Scarlett Revival takes the drone lead
5:00 ling speed started for Scarlett Scarlett sending her lings across the map queen and lings of Revival push Scarlett's lings back baneling nest for Scarlett spine in the natural for Revival
6:00 lings get into Scarlett's main and get a full scout 2nd spine started for Revival 2nd gas for Scarlett
7:00 Scarlett gets some lings into the natural and main of Revival as speed finishes double gas for Revival Scarlett scouts everything Lair for Scarlett another spine for Revival 2 more gas for Scarlett
8:00 2 more gas for Revival banelings trying to morph in the main of Revival but they are scouted and canceled Lair for Revival Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival Spire for Scarlett 3rd base for Scarlett
9:00 ling speed started for Revival +1 range attack for Revival 3rd base for Revival Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival Revival moving a spine to his 3rd lings pick off a queen
10:00 infestation pit for Revival overseer scouts the spire of Scarlett mutas started for Scarlett ling runby into the main of Revival starts picking off drones baneling speed for Scarlett pathogen glands for Revival
11:00 7 spores for Revival Spores deny mutas from the 3rd of Revival Scarlett making a bunch of lings +1 carapace for Revival Hydralisk den for Revival 22 banelings morphing for Scarlett
22:00 infestor production started for Revival Revival scouts the banelings moving across the map Scarlett goes in for the attack as baneling speed finishes banelings kill a bunch of drones in the main of Scarlett Roach warren for Scarlett
13:00 Roach speed for scarlett evo chamber for Scarlett Raoch speed for Scarlett
14:00 Hydra speed for Revival more infestors for Revival mutas flying around killing overlords Revival ahead by 10 supply +1 range attack for Scarlett
15:00 Hydras coming out for Revival Burrow research for Scarlett mutas deny the drone going to build the 4th for Revival Burrow movement for Scarlett hydra range for Revival burrow research for Revival Scarlett breaking down the middle rocks
16:00 Revival moving across the map +2 range attack for Revival armies engage before +1 attack finishes for Scarlett Scarlett has a large concave reinforcements come in for Revival and Scarlett has to retreat Revival ahead by 30 supply Scarlett retreats to her natural
17:00 Scarlett tries to hold her natural infestors burrow under the battle and move intot he main Scarlett holds her natural but she is down 70 supply 4th base finishes for Revival ITs in the main of Scarlett
18:00 ITs in the natural of Scarlett Revival breaking through int he natural with his roaches Scarlett ggs! Revival wins 2-1! Scarlett falls to the Challenger division
stop talking about these concaves so much really, it doesn't matter at all most of the time..
It only matters if the armies are so large or the area so small that units are actually not attacking because of the being in the clump. With these army sizes that doesn't really happen especially if there are enough hydra's part of the composition..
On May 23 2013 11:10 Markwerf wrote: stop talking about these concaves so much really, it doesn't matter at all most of the time..
It only matters if the armies are so large or the area so small that units are actually not attacking because of the being in the clump. With these army sizes that doesn't really happen especially if there are enough hydra's part of the composition..
That's not true. If there are 2 armies of equal size and upgrades concave is super important. It didn't matter that game because revival was ahead in every way units, upgrades, money, etc.
On May 23 2013 11:10 Markwerf wrote: stop talking about these concaves so much really, it doesn't matter at all most of the time..
It only matters if the armies are so large or the area so small that units are actually not attacking because of the being in the clump. With these army sizes that doesn't really happen especially if there are enough hydra's part of the composition..
Well roaches overkill, so concave does help reduce that.
First time I see mutas since patch, jesus those spores kill mutas fast
Scarlett looked pretty exhausted tbh, I think the jetlag and travel was really affecting her. It's a shame b/c I've seen her play a lot better than that. Just missed micro, some poor decisions, and questionable builds.
On May 23 2013 11:10 Markwerf wrote: stop talking about these concaves so much really, it doesn't matter at all most of the time..
It only matters if the armies are so large or the area so small that units are actually not attacking because of the being in the clump. With these army sizes that doesn't really happen especially if there are enough hydra's part of the composition..
someone needs to learn a bit about Hydras and flanking.
On May 23 2013 11:12 Evil_Sheep wrote: Scarlett looked pretty exhausted tbh, I think the jetlag and travel was really affecting her. It's a shame b/c I've seen her play a lot better than that. Just missed micro, some poor decisions, and questionable builds.
The airline also lost her luggage including her gear
On May 23 2013 11:12 Evil_Sheep wrote: Scarlett looked pretty exhausted tbh, I think the jetlag and travel was really affecting her. It's a shame b/c I've seen her play a lot better than that. Just missed micro, some poor decisions, and questionable builds.
Pretty much. But still really disappointing, given revival isn't even particularly strong out of the remaining Koreans. I will lose all interest in this tournament if Suppy goes out here too.
On May 23 2013 11:10 Markwerf wrote: stop talking about these concaves so much really, it doesn't matter at all most of the time..
It only matters if the armies are so large or the area so small that units are actually not attacking because of the being in the clump. With these army sizes that doesn't really happen especially if there are enough hydra's part of the composition..
So wrong, especially in a mirror match up concave is everything. Even if the poorly positioned army stutter steps into the concave and all units are attacking, the way the damage is spread out to the concave vs the concentrated fire into the convex army makes a huge difference.
On May 23 2013 11:12 Evil_Sheep wrote: Scarlett looked pretty exhausted tbh, I think the jetlag and travel was really affecting her. It's a shame b/c I've seen her play a lot better than that. Just missed micro, some poor decisions, and questionable builds.
Pretty much. But still really disappointing, given revival isn't even particularly strong out of the remaining Koreans. I will lose all interest in this tournament if Suppy goes out here too.
Go Suppy!
Suppy probably the only one not to jetlagged in this group haha.
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
hax same spawning position and map as last time
2:00 pool first for Suppy Hatch first for Revival Hatch for Suppy pool for Revival gas for Revival
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 ling speed for Revival ling speed for Suppy baneling nest for both players
5:00 spine for Revival in the natural spine in the natural for Suppy Lair for Revival 3 more gas for Revival
6:00 3rd base for Suppy ling gets intot he main of Revival and scouts the lair morphing Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival lings get into Suppy's main and scouts a bunch of speedlings spawning 2 more gas for Suppy
7:00 roach speed for Revival defensive banes and Roaches started for Revival lings run into the natural of Revival but back off when the banelings come forward Lair for suppy Roach warren for Suppy +1 range attack started for Revival evo chamber for Suppy 3rd base for Revival
8:00 infestation pit for Revival Roach speed for suppy +1 range attack for Suppy
9:00 pathogen glands for Revival overseers scout the main and natural of Suppy 2nd evo for Suppy
10:00 infestor production started for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 carapace started for Suppy +2 range attack started for Revival ling scouts the main of Suppy and sees the hydralisk den hydra range for Suppy hydras started for Suppy
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
hax same spawning position and map as last time
2:00 pool first for Suppy Hatch first for Revival Hatch for Suppy pool for Revival gas for Revival
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 ling speed for Revival ling speed for Suppy baneling nest for both players
5:00 spine for Revival in the natural spine in the natural for Suppy Lair for Revival 3 more gas for Revival
6:00 3rd base for Suppy ling gets intot he main of Revival and scouts the lair morphing Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival lings get into Suppy's main and scouts a bunch of speedlings spawning 2 more gas for Suppy
7:00 roach speed for Revival defensive banes and Roaches started for Revival lings run into the natural of Revival but back off when the banelings come forward Lair for suppy Roach warren for Suppy +1 range attack started for Revival evo chamber for Suppy 3rd base for Revival
8:00 infestation pit for Revival Roach speed for suppy +1 range attack for Suppy
9:00 pathogen glands for Revival overseers scout the main and natural of Suppy 2nd evo for Suppy
10:00 infestor production started for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 carapace started for Suppy +2 range attack started for Revival ling scouts the main of Suppy and sees the hydralisk den hydra range for Suppy hydras started for Suppy
11:00 +2 range attack started for Suppy 4th base for Suppy Suppy starting to move across the map looking for a 4th from Revival ling runby to the 4th of Suppy is cleaned up by roaches
12:00 Hydralisk den for Revival Hydra speed for Suppy 4th base for Revival engagement in the middle of the map fungal all over Suppy's army
13:00 Suppy is able to push Revival back Revival goes up a ramp and turns around to engage more fungals go down on the army of Suppy Revival ahs to retreat to his 3rd +1 carapace for Revival
14:00 suppy forces a cancel on the 4th of Revival Burrow research on the way for Suppy Suppy turns around to fight the army of Revival as he's getting chased fungal hits the army of Suppy Revival is able to push suppy back and takes a 10 supply lead 4th base restarted for Revival
15:00 burrow research started for Revival Suppy attacking at the 4th of revival Revival's 4th is killed engagement at the 3rd of Revival fungal all over hte army of Suppy Supply's army is crushed at the 3rd Revival takes a 20 supply lead
0:00 Suppy spawns in the top left Revival spawns in the bottom right
hax same spawning position and map as last time
2:00 pool first for Suppy Hatch first for Revival Hatch for Suppy pool for Revival gas for Revival
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 ling speed for Revival ling speed for Suppy baneling nest for both players
5:00 spine for Revival in the natural spine in the natural for Suppy Lair for Revival 3 more gas for Revival
6:00 3rd base for Suppy ling gets intot he main of Revival and scouts the lair morphing Roach warren for Revival evo chamber for Revival lings get into Suppy's main and scouts a bunch of speedlings spawning 2 more gas for Suppy
7:00 roach speed for Revival defensive banes and Roaches started for Revival lings run into the natural of Revival but back off when the banelings come forward Lair for suppy Roach warren for Suppy +1 range attack started for Revival evo chamber for Suppy 3rd base for Revival
8:00 infestation pit for Revival Roach speed for suppy +1 range attack for Suppy
9:00 pathogen glands for Revival overseers scout the main and natural of Suppy 2nd evo for Suppy
10:00 infestor production started for Revival Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 carapace started for Suppy +2 range attack started for Revival ling scouts the main of Suppy and sees the hydralisk den hydra range for Suppy hydras started for Suppy
11:00 +2 range attack started for Suppy 4th base for Suppy Suppy starting to move across the map looking for a 4th from Revival ling runby to the 4th of Suppy is cleaned up by roaches
12:00 Hydralisk den for Revival Hydra speed for Suppy 4th base for Revival engagement in the middle of the map fungal all over Suppy's army
13:00 Suppy is able to push Revival back Revival goes up a ramp and turns around to engage more fungals go down on the army of Suppy Revival ahs to retreat to his 3rd +1 carapace for Revival
14:00 suppy forces a cancel on the 4th of Revival Burrow research on the way for Suppy Suppy turns around to fight the army of Revival as he's getting chased fungal hits the army of Suppy Revival is able to push suppy back and takes a 10 supply lead 4th base restarted for Revival
15:00 burrow research started for Revival Suppy attacking at the 4th of revival Revival's 4th is killed engagement at the 3rd of Revival fungal all over hte army of Suppy Supply's army is crushed at the 3rd Revival takes a 20 supply lead
16:00 engagement in the middle of the map Suppy's army is surrounded by roaches Reinforcements of Suppy are trying to come in
17:00 Revival is taking a 30 supply lead now 4th base restarted for Revival +2 carapace for Revival Suppy retreats to his 4th Revival looking to attack at the 4th of suppy more fungals on the army of suppy
18:00 Suppy's army is starting to fall Revival takes a 40 supply lead now infestors burrow and move to the 4th of Suppy infested terran thrown out at the 4th of Suppy Suppy ggs! Revival wins game 1!
If the Ro8 is made WCS Korea style with A1 vs B2, C1 vs D2 etc... assuming Ryung wins his TvTs tomorrow, we will probably get a HerO vs Polt Ro8. Damn that should probably be the finals of WCS AM D:
also wow, didn't realize it takes so long to cast one group :| already 4 and a half hours
Been like this all week :/
It's not nearly as bad today, there has been a lot less downtime.
Or maybe It's just the ZvZ effect
Hopefully they are working on it and its not just the zvz effect.
There's definitely a lot less down time. I noted a couple of times during the 2 other days that there was as much as 30 minutes between series at times. They cut out all the analysis
0:00 Suppy spawns in the bottom right Revival spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Suppy Hatch first for Revival Hatch for Suppy gas for Revival pool for Revival
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 ling speed for Revival ling speed for Suppy baneling nest for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy spine in the natural for Suppy Revival morphing some offensive banes suppy sees the banelings morphing lings coming out for Suppy defensive banes for Suppy
0:00 Suppy spawns in the bottom right Revival spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Suppy Hatch first for Revival Hatch for Suppy gas for Revival pool for Revival
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 ling speed for Revival ling speed for Suppy baneling nest for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy spine in the natural for Suppy Revival morphing some offensive banes suppy sees the banelings morphing lings coming out for Suppy defensive banes for Suppy
6:00 Suppy defends the ling bane pressure with only 1 drone killed Revival loses most of the lings to a baneling hit 2 more spines started for Revival Suppy going for a counter attack defensive banes morphing for Revival
7:00 3 more gas for Revival Roach warren for Revival Lair for Revival evo chamber for Revival one of Revival's spines is canceled Lair for Suppy ling gets into the main of Revival and scouts the Lair morphing
8:00 3rd base for Suppy +1 range attack for Revival Roach warren for Suppy evo chamber for Suppy Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival 3rd base for Revival
9:00 +1 range attack started for Suppy Roach speed for Suppy
10:00 burrow research started for Revival 2nd evo for Suppy Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 carapace for revival +1 carapace for Suppy
0:00 Suppy spawns in the bottom right Revival spawns in the top left
2:00 pool first for Suppy Hatch first for Revival Hatch for Suppy gas for Revival pool for Revival
3:00 gas for Suppy
4:00 ling speed for Revival ling speed for Suppy baneling nest for Revival
5:00 baneling nest for Suppy spine in the natural for Suppy Revival morphing some offensive banes suppy sees the banelings morphing lings coming out for Suppy defensive banes for Suppy
6:00 Suppy defends the ling bane pressure with only 1 drone killed Revival loses most of the lings to a baneling hit 2 more spines started for Revival Suppy going for a counter attack defensive banes morphing for Revival
7:00 3 more gas for Revival Roach warren for Revival Lair for Revival evo chamber for Revival one of Revival's spines is canceled Lair for Suppy ling gets into the main of Revival and scouts the Lair morphing
8:00 3rd base for Suppy +1 range attack for Revival Roach warren for Suppy evo chamber for Suppy Roaches started for Revival Roach speed for Revival 3rd base for Revival
9:00 +1 range attack started for Suppy Roach speed for Suppy
10:00 burrow research started for Revival 2nd evo for Suppy Hydralisk den for Suppy +1 carapace for revival +1 carapace for Suppy
11:00 Hydralisk range started for Suppy Suppy breaking down the rocks to a potential 4th
12:00 Hydras started for Suppy Revival moving across the map Revival starts the engagement at the bottom of Suppy's ramp up 20 supply the spine falls drones from the 3rd of Suppy are pulled
13:00 Suppy is dropping in Supply Revival is up 50 supply Suppy ggs! Revival wins 2-0 and advances to the Ro8! Suppy falls to the challenger division
On May 23 2013 11:49 Spaiku wrote: That winner aproach by Revival was too bm
It was awkward for him, he didn't want to show poor sportsmanship by just leaving, I dunno, I think what he did was right. They're both on EG after all, and they don't have any beef with each other
On May 23 2013 11:51 fuzzylogic44 wrote: What was wrong with the handshake? That looked totally normal and friendly to me
People are mad Revival eliminated Scarlett and Suppy
Hey i have nothing against Revival ! What he did it's normal.
I'm just making a joke with the Naniwa denied handshake and how Tod/Morrow/Naniwa fans justified it saying that the winner aproaching the loser it's offensive.
On May 23 2013 11:51 fuzzylogic44 wrote: What was wrong with the handshake? That looked totally normal and friendly to me
It is a WCS EU thing involving Naniwa denying a handshake from his opponent.
Yeah I saw that but don't see the connection
The connection is that it was ridiculous Naniwa refused to shake hands and his fans claimed it was Vortix's fault for attempting an "offensive handshake" and that it was a bm move. So now people are joking and calling it bm and offensive handshake every time a winner goes to shake the loser's hand.
On May 23 2013 12:01 TheButtonmen wrote: Well there goes pretty much all the interest I had in WCS AM Premier league.
Time to vote with my feet.
I'm pretty much in the same boat, this is a huge disappointment.
Hopefully TB and Gen can get the support needed to run Shoutcraft NA Mrk. 2: Electric Boogaloo or Blizz will provide us with an actual WCS Am but until then at least Demu and Catz still stream regularly.
I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Yes valid point but over time that pool will get stronger and stronger. What would had happen to the Korean BW scene if hypotherical Boxer suddenly had to play a bunch of Chinese professional who was 10 years ahead of them. No Boxer, no Bisu no Flash. No Korean pro gaming scene.
And this is exactly what is happening with the NA scene!!
I want the NA Boxer to be born and given a chance.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
They deserve less prize money if they are worse players.
I don't think more people want to see Americas only play anyways
edit: also, if there was a developed chinese scene, then boxer wouldn't have seemed impressive--there'd be other legendary pros
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
They deserve less prize money if they are worse players.
I don't think more people want to see Americas only play anyways
edit: also, if there was a developed chinese scene, then boxer wouldn't have seemed impressive--there'd be other legendary pros
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
They deserve less prize money if they are worse players.
I don't think more people want to see Americas only play anyways
Play skill and prize money have no correlation and Shoutcraft Am beating WCS NA, peaking higher then WCS EU even when it was airing in terrible timeslots due to no compete claus with WCS and having zero big name players means you're probably also wrong about that too.
On May 23 2013 12:01 TheButtonmen wrote: Well there goes pretty much all the interest I had in WCS AM Premier league.
Time to vote with my feet.
I would totally agree if Moonglade wasn't in it. I would have loved if Suppy would have won the whole thing though. He's such a deserving guy! He would make such an awesome ceremony at the end with all his emotions.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
Well of course everyone has different tastes, I don't presume to think otherwise. But I don't think region locking is as simple as it sounds.
Better play deserves higher prize money, that's my belief. It might not be yours, but we're free to disagree. While the level of play in WCS AM might not be as high as WCS KR, it's at least much more competitive without region lock.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
They deserve less prize money if they are worse players.
I don't think more people want to see Americas only play anyways
Play skill and prize money have no correlation and Shoutcraft Am beating WCS NA, peaking higher then WCS EU even when it was airing in terrible timeslots due to no compete claus with WCS and having zero big name players means you're probably also wrong about that too.
Play skill and prize money does have and should have a correlation. When you are better at something, you should get compensated accordingly
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
How many of you are there then ? Should people that like to watch high level Korean games cater to your need ? The guy said it not an easy solution and that is true. Region lock is unfair to people that want to watch high level Korean games at good NA time. How is your need more important than those people ?
Woot! GJ to HerO and Revival~ Gratz to them, but I wish Suppy won Nothing to do with him being NA, though. He's just an awesome guy and great player. Of course, Scarlett, too. >_<
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
They deserve less prize money if they are worse players.
I don't think more people want to see Americas only play anyways
Play skill and prize money have no correlation and Shoutcraft Am beating WCS NA, peaking higher then WCS EU even when it was airing in terrible timeslots due to no compete claus with WCS and having zero big name players means you're probably also wrong about that too.
That´s a really good point Shoutcraft had more viewers and it was aired at a horrible time where it had to compete with the WCS EU broadcast and bad time for the US audience. And it still had more then these 18k who is watching WCS NA. so there is certainly a market there. Problem is the starcraft scene will slowly lose more and more American starcraft fans until there is nothing left. You can alrdy see it 2 years ago the NA fan base was much much larger then the European but its a complete reversal now.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
How many of you are there then ? Should people that like to watch high level Korean games cater to your need ? The guy said it not an easy solution and that is true. Region lock is unfair to people that want to watch high level Korean games at good NA time. How is your need more important than those people ?
Well that´s impossible if you want to watch high Korean starcraft you should watch pro league or GSL. Seriously if this trend continues its the BW scene all over again. I know some TL users would be happy for that to happen because they consider starcraft 2 a Korean game. But everyone who wants to see starcraft 2 as a global sport certainly don't want this to happen.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
How many of you are there then ? Should people that like to watch high level Korean games cater to your need ? The guy said it not an easy solution and that is true. Region lock is unfair to people that want to watch high level Korean games at good NA time. How is your need more important than those people ?
They can go watch the GSL, WCS Kr, weekly cups, Proleague, GSTL and the list goes on. There is a massive amount of content out there for people who want to see top level koreans play, there's a massive dearth of content for those who want to see the local scene develop.
I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Should we limit the olympics to only the winning teams? Just because a region is stronger then other doesn't mean that other regions shouldn't get to compete.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Champion's league says hello. Also, count the number of spots they give Europe in the World Cup, then count the number of spots other continents get. It's not proportional to the number of nations on each continent in case you need a hint.
On May 23 2013 12:11 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant stress this enough is so wrong in so many ways we only got Koreans, one European and one Australian in the WCS North America premier league ro8. Its a complete joke
I really hope Blizzard change the rules next season where you have to have residency in the region you playing in.
But then other issues would arise. You would have a much, much weaker player pool playing for comparable prizemoney and representation at WCS Season finals and Global finals.
There's not really an easy, equitable solution.
Why do NA players deserve less prize money or representation then EU or Kr? How is region locking not an easy, equitable solution?
This may blow your mind but not all of us would rather watch higher level Korean games then local games.
How many of you are there then ? Should people that like to watch high level Korean games cater to your need ? The guy said it not an easy solution and that is true. Region lock is unfair to people that want to watch high level Korean games at good NA time. How is your need more important than those people ?
There's a considerable number of people like that. MLG stream views always took a hit when the last foreigner went out. I continued watching but I won't deny that I was always more emotionally invested when there were still non-Koreans in the tournaments.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Champion's league says hello. Also, count the number of spots they give Europe in the World Cup, then count the number of spots other continents get. It's not proportional to the number of nations on each continent in case you need a hint.
Champions league certainly doesn't say hello. There is only 3 extra teams from the strongest nation to the midtier European nations in Europe.
I don´t need a hint I can tell which person you are already and thank god this is not a football site because if it was. Champions league would only be Korean teams
To OP, the results (both overall and spoilered) are a little bit messed up for the Winners' Match and Final Match. The maps are also missing after the first game of the Winners' match, just in case you weren't already aware.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Actually, most sports do this. Look how many Olympians US/China etc send out each Olympics...
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Actually, most sports do this. Look how many Olympians US/China etc send out each Olympics...
That´s completely different they send out these large olympic teams because there countries are huge and got athletes in almost every sport in the Olympics.
Just don´t come back in 1 year and complain we need more viewers because if this trend is allowed to continue the NA scene is death in a year and there fan base is most likely busy watching League of legends
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
But you see more English, Spanish and German clubs in the Champion's League.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Actually, most sports do this. Look how many Olympians US/China etc send out each Olympics...
That´s completely different they send out these large olympic teams because there countries are huge and got athletes in almost every sport in the Olympics.
It's not that different, China has at least three times as many total people as the U.S. but their team was not 3x as large. They have huge delegations because they're really good at a lot of the events. Like the Koreans in SC2.
Really been enjoying Axlav's casting. He's one of the few caster's that can be analytical not only calling out what's happening, but stating what players are going to be trying to accomplish by interpreting their actions. As a player who completely relies on interpreting their opponent's situations based on their limited information due to terribad macro and shitty sub100 APM, it's nice to finally see a caster that isn't clueless on why players are doing certain things.
Which is the main reason I play random... random doesn't limit me whatsoever in the sense I can't learn all the MUs because my bottleneck is entirely my APM at my level (top masters). Wouldn't improve at all playing one race unless I was able to improve my macro of that one race, which I don't see happening T_T.
tl;dr: I like Axlav's casting and he's one of the only casters that can correctly interpret the vast majority of the time a player's motivations for doing certain actions.
Oh wait, is this a rebroadcast? The results already are shown. Didn't TL used to have a little thing that said "rebroadcast" for anything that actually was, in fact, a rebroadcast..?
On May 23 2013 13:15 FabledIntegral wrote: Oh wait, is this a rebroadcast? The results already are shown. Didn't TL used to have a little thing that said "rebroadcast" for anything that actually was, in fact, a rebroadcast..?
If an event's not in the calendar section under "ON AIR" but down in the Live Streams, it's probably not a live event.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Champion's league says hello. Also, count the number of spots they give Europe in the World Cup, then count the number of spots other continents get. It's not proportional to the number of nations on each continent in case you need a hint.
Champions league certainly doesn't say hello. There is only 3 extra teams from the strongest nation to the midtier European nations in Europe.
I don´t need a hint I can tell which person you are already and thank god this is not a football site because if it was. Champions league would only be Korean teams
Uh Italy just lost a Cl spot to Germany just a few years ago. It's definitely based on performance and not a sense of equity.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Provide incentives for them to compete and an enviroment where they can compete and make a name for themselves.
Events like Shoutcraft America do amazing things for the scene and a region locked WCS Am would be a massive boost for the scene.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Man I'm still sad Sen got eliminated. I'm just hoping that the Koreans get spread out. That way there's a higher chance of all Koreans representing NA.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
It's not about local or foreign. Actually, lower-skilled foreigners are often favoured over lower-skilled (relatively) koreans. If foreigners won tourneys, they would be sponsored over koreans who win tourneys. Meaning, your post should read:
Why invest in loser players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing the first round.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
I wonder when Zerg will finally start connecting their main and natural bases with creep ... or covering their large main bases with it. All it takes is one lousy tumor and some small part of your attention ...
I wonder too when Zerg will realize that spending resources on more than one Spore Crawler per base will be more economical than losing a lot of Drones and then having to replace them again ...
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
But currently none of these players is able to compete on a european/korean skill level. This situation is worse than it was after the WoL release when HuK und Idra were able to win international tournaments.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
But currently none of these players is able to compete on a european/korean skill level. This situation is worse than it was after the WoL release when HuK und Idra were able to win international tournaments.
Scarlett can compete with Europeans but she's going to be taking a break so that's unfortunate. Demuslim maybe but he's untested for the most part as of late in tournament play. His first round in WCS challenger was a little shaky. I guess we'll see how he looks in Round 2.
On May 23 2013 12:37 sitromit wrote: I'm all for region locking if they give Korea more spots for having the bigger pool of better players. Make it so the 16 for season finals is top 4 from NA and EU and top 8 from Korea instead of 5 from each +1 from host.
Or even better, add a 4th region for China/SEA and make it 3 each from NA and EU, 2 from China and SEA and 8 from Korea for each season finals.
Bullshit. There is no sport that does that. We don't see only Spanish,German,Argentinian and Brazilian teams in the world cup do we?
Champion's league says hello. Also, count the number of spots they give Europe in the World Cup, then count the number of spots other continents get. It's not proportional to the number of nations on each continent in case you need a hint.
Champions league certainly doesn't say hello. There is only 3 extra teams from the strongest nation to the midtier European nations in Europe.
I don´t need a hint I can tell which person you are already and thank god this is not a football site because if it was. Champions league would only be Korean teams
The specific numbers weren't meant to be taken into account. What we are trying to show by bringing up the Champions League is that future participation can/should be determined using past performances. Let the dominant regions send more representatives but also allow other regions the opportunity to increase their participation if their reps perform well.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
How do you know that those players turn more profit than the popular koreans do?
I think the problem that the NA scene have is "the EG factor". Who are the most known/famous "native" american players? I think its most likely Idra, Incontrole, Huk and QXC (correct me if i´m wrong). Besides Huk these guys never had the best results but are interesting/funny/"bad boys". The thing with the NA scene is that the most successful players in the NA scene are not the ones that have the best play, the most successful are these players who are able to market themselves.
Best example is Incontrole. Dont get me wrong he is an awesome guy, a great commentator and does a lot of things that are good for eSports but imagine you are a High Grandmaster NA player that beats the shit out of him every game and you make 10 times less money than he is.
It feels like that the most important thing for NA players is not to "win" or "be good", it is to be good at marketing.
And on a side note why are so many people here counting DeMuslim as a NA pro, he is from england isn´t he? If you say he is on a NA team or lives in America you could count Teaja Violet and Polt as "NA" pros too.
On May 23 2013 13:15 FabledIntegral wrote: Oh wait, is this a rebroadcast? The results already are shown. Didn't TL used to have a little thing that said "rebroadcast" for anything that actually was, in fact, a rebroadcast..?
If an event's not in the calendar section under "ON AIR" but down in the Live Streams, it's probably not a live event.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
If what you are saying is the case, then why not have all Foreigners on the major foreign teams. Who needs Korean mercenaries when you get more profit from having foreign players.
And on a side note why are so many people here counting DeMuslim as a NA pro, he is from england isn´t he? If you say he is on a NA team or lives in America you could count Teaja Violet and Polt as "NA" pros too.
better example might be calling forgg an european. but tbh, if there is forgg vs a korean i root for forgg like for any other european player. if its european vs forgg is see that different.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
If what you are saying is the case, then why not have all Foreigners on the major foreign teams. Who needs Korean mercenaries when you get more profit from having foreign players.
On May 23 2013 15:08 stfouri wrote: Im so gonna watch moonglades games from now on. Rest of the tournament? Could not care less. Mediocore Koreans duking it out on a laggy server :D.
On May 23 2013 15:08 stfouri wrote: Im so gonna watch moonglades games from now on. Rest of the tournament? Could not care less. Mediocore Koreans duking it out on a laggy server :D.
Not laggy they are here live !
yo it's Suppy
hi Suppy
Good job in the group, getting past two Koreans is a difficult task to ask of anyone
It'll be exciting to see these Koreans bring their full power! (Despite what stfouri may think)
On May 23 2013 15:08 stfouri wrote: Im so gonna watch moonglades games from now on. Rest of the tournament? Could not care less. Mediocore Koreans duking it out on a laggy server :D.
Not laggy they are here live !
yo it's Suppy
hi Suppy
Good job in the group, getting past two Koreans is a difficult task to ask of anyone
It'll be exciting to see these Koreans bring their full power! (Despite what stfouri may think)
Suppy go back to Code S where you belong ASAP!
Back to? Was Suppy in Code S at one point? I haven't followed the scene too in the depth admittedly...
On May 23 2013 15:08 stfouri wrote: Im so gonna watch moonglades games from now on. Rest of the tournament? Could not care less. Mediocore Koreans duking it out on a laggy server :D.
Not laggy they are here live !
yo it's Suppy
hi Suppy
Good job in the group, getting past two Koreans is a difficult task to ask of anyone
It'll be exciting to see these Koreans bring their full power! (Despite what stfouri may think)
Suppy go back to Code S where you belong ASAP!
Back to? Was Suppy in Code S at one point? I haven't followed the scene too in the depth admittedly...
On May 23 2013 15:08 stfouri wrote: Im so gonna watch moonglades games from now on. Rest of the tournament? Could not care less. Mediocore Koreans duking it out on a laggy server :D.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
Won't happen because Korean teams have Korean sponsors. Kespa players definitely won't leave. You have to ensure that the NA teams stop investing in Korean players and instead invest in local players. If they have Korean players, make sure that he local players actually get to train with them. Best scenario is that NA teams move all their Korean players to NA and have them improve the quality of practice that the NA scene gets.
Why invest in local players when they don't turn as much profit. You don't get a whole lot of brand exposure if your players keep losing in the first round.
Suppy, Demu, Catz, iNcontrol, Scarlett, QXC and countless others say hello. Local players turn more profit then Korean players if you take the time to develop and promote them.
If what you are saying is the case, then why not have all Foreigners on the major foreign teams. Who needs Korean mercenaries when you get more profit from having foreign players.
Gogo local players, who needs results and skill anyway. lol.
Imo the market for personalities is saturated. They are good for showmatches or charity but you cant even invite them to a semi-serious tournament, cause some no-name-better player will humiliate them.
On May 23 2013 16:08 Dauntless wrote: Only WCS KR Premier League is Code S.
Blizzard wanted a system in all 3 region that was exactly the same. So excuse me ill go with what the tournament organisers call it.
WCS Korea Premier League = Code S WSC NA Premier League = Code S WSC EU Premier League = Code S
That doesn't make it Code S at all. That's just like saying "WCS Korea Premier League = MLG." Sure, they copied the format of Code S, but that's it. Insinuating its' the same thing is absolutely silly, imo. There's a clear, definite distinction in my eyes and I'm sure in many others.
On May 23 2013 16:08 Dauntless wrote: Only WCS KR Premier League is Code S.
Blizzard wanted a system in all 3 region that was exactly the same. So excuse me ill go with what the tournament organisers call it.
WCS Korea Premier League = Code S WSC NA Premier League = Code S WSC EU Premier League = Code S
lol no. The term Code S should be exclusively for WCS Korea due to the level of play. Oh hey yeah organizers decided to call WCS NA and Eu Primier Code S too, so those euros/americans in Primier league should be called Code S player? lol nope.
On May 23 2013 16:08 Dauntless wrote: Only WCS KR Premier League is Code S.
Blizzard wanted a system in all 3 region that was exactly the same. So excuse me ill go with what the tournament organisers call it.
WCS Korea Premier League = Code S WSC NA Premier League = Code S WSC EU Premier League = Code S
lol no. The term Code S should be exclusively for WCS Korea due to the level of play. Oh hey yeah organizers decided to call WCS NA and Eu Primier Code S too, so those euros/americans in Primier league should be called Code S player? lol nope.
Isn't the next WCS Korea by OGN and hence considered an OSL?
On May 23 2013 16:08 Dauntless wrote: Only WCS KR Premier League is Code S.
Blizzard wanted a system in all 3 region that was exactly the same. So excuse me ill go with what the tournament organisers call it.
WCS Korea Premier League = Code S WSC NA Premier League = Code S WSC EU Premier League = Code S
lol no. The term Code S should be exclusively for WCS Korea due to the level of play. Oh hey yeah organizers decided to call WCS NA and Eu Primier Code S too, so those euros/americans in Primier league should be called Code S player? lol nope.
While I agree that Code S should remain with WCS KR the reason you give for it is crap. It should remain because of history, this tournament was always called Code S and so people remember it with that name. Level of play has nothing to do with it, its just an additional brand. Also I dont think the tournament organizers care that much about a "Code S" brand. WCS EU is a huge success with actual EU players and if WCS NA would call themself Code S it would further ridicule the "NA" in the name of the league, with the best players beeing an norwegian and australian.
On May 23 2013 16:08 Dauntless wrote: Only WCS KR Premier League is Code S.
Blizzard wanted a system in all 3 region that was exactly the same. So excuse me ill go with what the tournament organisers call it.
WCS Korea Premier League = Code S WSC NA Premier League = Code S WSC EU Premier League = Code S
lol no. The term Code S should be exclusively for WCS Korea due to the level of play. Oh hey yeah organizers decided to call WCS NA and Eu Primier Code S too, so those euros/americans in Primier league should be called Code S player? lol nope.
Isn't the next WCS Korea by OGN and hence considered an OSL?
they should just make WCS using the football worldcup system
every region is locked but they send a different number of players to the finals according to overall skill. this number changes over the seasons according to performance in the finals
if this is working well for the biggest sport in the world it should work well for sc2, no?
For people that support region lock. You know there is no Shoutcraft America because people actually complained about the quality of the games and players. There are enough of those complaints such that there is no more future Shoutcraft AM. This proves that there is no real simple solution (this is the point). It does not matter what you decide to do, there will be people complain like in Shoutcraft AM case or in this thread. At the moment, we just have to wait and see what model will succeed, but so far it does not look good for region lock model (Shoutcraft AM) even though there are many other factors involved.
I dont realy care so much about the nationality of the players! But this is not a good produced show imo and thats not the players fault! the host/casters and in between game content should build the hype/storylines. Thats why most people wont watch and this is the WCS with the least viewers.
On May 23 2013 23:37 thanhbao86 wrote: For people that support region lock. You know there is no Shoutcraft America because people actually complained about the quality of the games and players. There are enough of those complaints such that there is no more future Shoutcraft AM.
On May 23 2013 21:10 Crownlol wrote: Aaaaaaand I stopped watching WCS NA. What a fucking joke tourney.
Yeah, fuck high level games!
I'll still be watching WCS EU and WCS KR (and SHOUTcraft AM if they have another). But I will not be watching WCS KR2.0
good thing ur the minority ^_^
He isn't. Ill take any bet that WCS NA will barely get 15k viewers now and when Moonglade,Snute is out then no-one is going to give a shit
The tournament is a farce I don't even understand why the NA fans put up with this they got all the power
Hell yeah! Someone should make an NA only tournament. I bet we can even get big name casters and a sizable prize pool.
Quote from TB
We beat WCS and not just by a small margin, we buried it. WCS NA could not compete with us in terms of concurrent and overall views. We were soundly exceeding their numbers by upwards of 10,000 concurrents on our good days. We were even competitive with WCS EU. I have it on good authority (and of course common sense) that SHOUTcraft generated significantly more ad revenue in its run than WCS NA has throughout the entire RO32. Add into the mix that our vods are significantly more popular than WCS, particularly when Husky posted some on his channel and you actually have a tournament that is punching way above its weight class and crushing in the numbers far more than it has any right to. What does it show? In my opinion a few things.
There IS a ground-swell of support for NA talent No actually, not everyone just wants to watch clones of GSL with the same Koreans all the time Regardless of the complaints about low quality games, a ton of people showed up and watched them anyway
Now, can some of it be attributed to the caster lineup? Most definitely. An all-star lineup of Husky, Day9, IdrA, Frodan, Rotterdam and Axslav was able to overcome the deficit caused by my terrible casting and no doubt contributed strong viewer numbers, although not necessarily what you might have expected. One might expect Day9s presence to be the overriding factor in viewership but that was not the case. Day 3s figures which featured Rotterdam were extremely similar to Seans appearance on Day 2. Casters contributed greatly to the success of the event but it was not as strong a draw as people claim. Weekend vs Weekday was by far a much stronger determining factor in the overall viewership, with weekend shows beyond Day 1 getting relatively similar numbers across the board regardless of caster.
So maybe we didn't hit the magic 50k, but look at the big picture. A tournament filled with players with lower profiles lacking several big name star “American” SC2 players, beat WCS NA over and over again who had the benefit of high profile Korean and foreign stars and the prestige of a huge prizepool and the endorsement and backing of Blizzard themselves.
Like I said before the NA fans got all the power. They don't have to put up with that farce that is WCS NA. And hopefully Blizzard will get the message.
they should lock all regions. people root for their home players, the final 3 of their region make it to the finals and get to play the big boys. foreigner tears are so much sweeter if its full of hope instead of being killed off early.
Sigh I like how now everyone is "outraged" by the results, which were predictable. If only more people spoke out in the beginning . . .
It is sad to say, but we can actually take some solace in this event. After all, completely losing the "American" WCS to Korea likely means the viewership drops to unsustainable levels. Thus, MLG should be forced to put immense pressure on Blizzard for region lock, maybe even asking to be dropped from WCS voluntarily altogether. Does anyone really think it can be worth it to them to broadcast, pay casters and staff and maintain a New York skyline studio for 15-20% of the viewership they should be getting?
It's also a pity that people don't see the hidden cost of all this. I'm sure that many new American viewers who were being brought into the fold from the "fresh jolt" of HoTs are looking at this and thinking: "How incredibly boring - can't relate to these Koreans who don't speak any of our languages - gonna drop this game" etc.
You can't fumble opportunities like the launch of a new game or expansion very often and fully recover. Hopefully Blizzard will get the message, but after years of waiting idly as they neglected their own game, my "hope" is in short supply.
I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans" and whine every time they lose.
WCS AM finals weekend will still get good viewership, because Snute, Moonglade, Hero and Polt (if he makes it) are fan favorites. Some people here are blowing it way out of proportion.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: There are plenty of NA-only tournaments
Perhaps you'd like to list your top 5 favorite NA only tournaments. Or top 4..or top 3? Can you name 2 NA only tournaments?
I can look at my "Upcoming events" bar and see several NA tournaments. "Toronto Elite Series" is in 1d17h. Just because I don't watch them, doesn't mean they don't exist.
So you think the "World" in "World Championship Starcraft" shouldn't be taken literally, and we should just keep the Koreans away from everybody else? How is that helping anything in the long run?
The whole reason for the WCS is to see the Koreans and foreigners become more connected and competitive with each other. Stop trying to ruin it.
With that said, I do think WCS NA could take some queues from WCS EU on how to promote their event and make it more entertaining. But as for parsing players and putting up restrictions to keep foreigners away from Koreans -- that's just weak, and is completely missing the point.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for?
So this is like the World Series of baseball now? Except every team is going to be from Korea instead. Seems like an appropriate comparison.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: There are plenty of NA-only tournaments
Perhaps you'd like to list your top 5 favorite NA only tournaments. Or top 4..or top 3? Can you name 2 NA only tournaments?
I can look at my "Upcoming events" bar and see several NA tournaments. "Toronto Elite Series" is in 1d17h. Just because I don't watch them, doesn't mean they don't exist.
So you think the "World" in "World Championship Starcraft" shouldn't be taken literally, and we should just keep the Koreans away from everybody else? How is that helping anything in the long run?
The whole reason for the WCS is to see the Koreans and foreigners become more connected and competitive with each other. Stop trying to ruin it.
I assumed we were talking about major tournaments, since that's obviously all we should be talking about. You still haven't named two of those. I'll take SCA as one, now the trouble is finding a second.
What about the WCS last year kept the Koreans away from our best players? You have regional championships and then send them to a world series. A format that basically everyone agreed was better, funner, smarter etc. It's a format followed by legitimate major sports. Don't be dense on purpose to try to make a point, you know how the Americas can have region lock and then still crown a world champion, considering it JUST HAPPENED.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
Well said!
The fact is people like Leporello is in minority they just very loud.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
A non-regional world tournament is destroying the regional SC2 scenes?
Sorry, no, WCS NA is not "killing e-sports". That's crazy sensationalism.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for?
So this is like the World Series of baseball now? Except every team is going to be from Korea instead. Seems like an appropriate comparison.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: There are plenty of NA-only tournaments
Perhaps you'd like to list your top 5 favorite NA only tournaments. Or top 4..or top 3? Can you name 2 NA only tournaments?
I can look at my "Upcoming events" bar and see several NA tournaments. "Toronto Elite Series" is in 1d17h. Just because I don't watch them, doesn't mean they don't exist.
So you think the "World" in "World Championship Starcraft" shouldn't be taken literally, and we should just keep the Koreans away from everybody else? How is that helping anything in the long run?
The whole reason for the WCS is to see the Koreans and foreigners become more connected and competitive with each other. Stop trying to ruin it.
I assumed we were talking about major tournaments, since that's obviously all we should be talking about. You still haven't named two of those. I'll take SCA as one, now the trouble is finding a second.
What about the WCS last year kept the Koreans away from our best players? You have regional championships and then send them to a world series. A format that basically everyone agreed was better, funner, smarter etc. It's a format followed by legitimate major sports. Don't be dense on purpose to try to make a point, you know how the Americas can have region lock and then still crown a world champion, considering it JUST HAPPENED.
Yes, we can separate Koreans from foreigners for MOST of the tournament, and then the Koreans can just dominate in the end.
But that's not taking us anywhere. It's not improving the scene.
Look at TLO's results in WCS EU. What makes them amazing isn't just that he beat the EU scene. He faced-off against some big-name Koreans (EDIT: not MVP yet, my bad, that's next round, forgot).
But whatever, Koreans aren't in need of special treatment. They can lose to good foreigners. It's just NA doesn't seem to have developed the talent. That doesn't mean we should get some special no-Korean handicap.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
A non-regional world tournament is destroying the regional SC2 scenes?
Sorry, no, WCS NA is not "killing e-sports". That's crazy sensationalism.
Well if you want to go into this territory. I think with what they are doing to SCA, NASL, any medium sized tournament with a 10k+ prize pool, and North and South American gamers that are going to have to beat code S caliber Koreans to give their sponsors exposure, they are quite literally killing some aspects of esports.
Yes, we can separate Koreans from foreigners for MOST of the tournament, and then the Koreans can just dominate in the end.
But that's not taking us anywhere. It's not improving the scene.
And this is actually just completely wrong on so many levels. WCS EU was basically the most viewed tournament last year, it was fucking huge, and it allowed many players to break out. Same with WCS NA to a lesser degree. Remember Scarlett ? You might not if there were 8 Koreans at the Canadian or NA championships last year. The region locked tournaments were nothing but good for the scene. Now watch as the NA premier league numbers plummet and tell me that's good for the scene.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
A non-regional world tournament is destroying the regional SC2 scenes?
Sorry, no, WCS NA is not "killing e-sports". That's crazy sensationalism.
It was intended to be a "regional" tournament into a grand-finals "world tournament". Hence the words "America, European, Korean" in front of the "WCS".
It was intended this way because all parties involved knew that to gain the most notoriety and best viewership they must welcome all types of viewership into the fold by giving local populations the players and story-lines that they can best relate to.
The American scene has been suppressed from growth for a long, long time by Korean dominance. The first MLG's that had no Korean participates were a great success. Remember that most foreign players that "made their name" are from the Beta and the first foreigners tournaments? Audience growth is dependent on relating to the players and the tournament.
Once again, if people like you had their way we would just have GSL still, the occasional Foreigner Tournament which would have a Korean champion (who only has an interest in Prize-Money - not relating to the fans) and no prospect for growth. You're just not thinking about the future, or any further than your own personal wants/desires regarding the game.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
A non-regional world tournament is destroying the regional SC2 scenes?
Sorry, no, WCS NA is not "killing e-sports". That's crazy sensationalism.
Well if you want to go into this territory. I think with what they are doing to SCA, NASL, any medium sized tournament with a 10k+ prize pool, and North and South American gamers that are going to have to beat code S caliber Koreans to give their sponsors exposure, they are quite literally killing some aspects of esports.
Yes, we can separate Koreans from foreigners for MOST of the tournament, and then the Koreans can just dominate in the end.
But that's not taking us anywhere. It's not improving the scene.
And this is actually just completely wrong on so many levels. WCS EU was basically the most viewed tournament last year, it was fucking huge, and it allowed many players to break out. Same with WCS NA to a lesser degree. Remember Scarlett ? You might not if there were 8 Koreans at the Canadian or NA championships last year. The region locked tournaments were nothing but good for the scene. Now watch as the NA premier league numbers plummet and tell me that's good for the scene.
Scarlett has made just as much of a name for herself by going to Korea and playing in the GSTL with Axiom, I think. A lot of us here don't care about nationality, not even our own, we just want to see the BEST players, and Scarlett proved herself by playing with the BEST.
I do agree that it's good to have regional tournaments. They're great. You guys are acting like I'm arguing against regional tournaments. By all means, let's have a grand-scale EU and NA tournament of the same structure as the WCS.
But let's also have a World Tournament that seeks to put Koreans and foreigners together, competitively, at all rounds. I think in the long-run, it's for the best.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
There are story-lines regarding a select few Koreans who try to relate to foreigners audiences. In the grand scheme of things, this is like 5% of the Korean player pool that competes in the foreigner tournaments.
Also, are you really going to argue this with facts that support the opposite?
Fact: foreigner viewership drops massively when foreigners are either not present in the tournament, or eliminated. I'm sorry it is this way, but it's just the truth.
On May 24 2013 06:04 Leporello wrote: Scarlett has made just as much of a name for herself by going to Korea and playing in the GSTL with Axiom, I think.
No actually she was well known for a long time before she went to GSTL to play with Axiom-Acer.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't, we've had a long time to develop the fan bases of players and a final with Mvp vs a foreigner will do significantly better than foreigner vs foreigner. Flash vs Life at MLG had 135-140k concurrent viewers, the highest of the tournament, compared to 80-90k for the matches with foreigners on Saturday.
The finals weekend will still get good viewership, mostly because weekends always do better than weekdays.
If you think I'm wrong then vote with your eyeballs and don't watch the finals weekend, we shall see.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
A non-regional world tournament is destroying the regional SC2 scenes?
Sorry, no, WCS NA is not "killing e-sports". That's crazy sensationalism.
Well if you want to go into this territory. I think with what they are doing to SCA, NASL, any medium sized tournament with a 10k+ prize pool, and North and South American gamers that are going to have to beat code S caliber Koreans to give their sponsors exposure, they are quite literally killing some aspects of esports.
Yes, we can separate Koreans from foreigners for MOST of the tournament, and then the Koreans can just dominate in the end.
But that's not taking us anywhere. It's not improving the scene.
And this is actually just completely wrong on so many levels. WCS EU was basically the most viewed tournament last year, it was fucking huge, and it allowed many players to break out. Same with WCS NA to a lesser degree. Remember Scarlett ? You might not if there were 8 Koreans at the Canadian or NA championships last year. The region locked tournaments were nothing but good for the scene. Now watch as the NA premier league numbers plummet and tell me that's good for the scene.
Scarlett has made just as much of a name for herself by going to Korea and playing in the GSTL with Axiom, I think.
I do agree that it's good to have regional tournaments. They're great. You guys are acting like I'm arguing against regional tournaments. By all means, let's have a grand-scale EU and NA tournament of the same structure as the WCS.
But let's also have a World Tournament that seeks to put Koreans and foreigners together, competitively, at all rounds. I think in the long-run, it's for the best.
You are missing my point about Scarlett. She wouldn't be in Korea or playing with Axiom if she didn't break out in the first place. She made her name by 2-0ing Huk at WCS Canada on her way to winning it, and then destroying everyone at WCS NA. Before that she was just a foreign zerg that went 1-2 against Koreans at IPL 4 before being knocked out of the open bracket.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the rest. I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
No, your facts are wrong. The facts are that the finals for the most recent MLG had the highest concurrent viewer count of the tournament, despite all the foreigners being eliminated before the Ro8.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't, we've had a long time to develop the fan bases of players and a final with Mvp vs a foreigner will do significantly better than foreigner vs foreigner. Flash vs Life at MLG had 135-140k concurrent viewers, the highest of the tournament, compared to 80-90k for the matches with foreigners on Saturday.
The finals weekend will still get good viewership, mostly because weekends always do better than weekdays.
If you think I'm wrong then vote with your eyeballs and don't watch the finals weekend, we shall see.
We can definitely agree that a select few Korean players will get strong foreigner-viewership. However, this is typically in the case of said Korean playing a foreigner in a major tournament. I have rarely if ever seen a Korean vs Korean match in a major tournament that wasn't dwarfed in viewership by Korean vs Foreigner or Foreigner vs Foreigner. The tournament knows this. The pro's know this. Why do you think all the pro's state this constantly on the talk shows? Are you smarter than them, have more inside information than they do?
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
No, your facts are wrong. The facts are that the finals for the most recent MLG had the highest concurrent viewer count of the tournament, despite all the foreigners being eliminated before the Ro8.
Sorry man, your facts are incorrect. It's true that the finals may have slightly more concurrent than lets say, the round of 16 matches with Foreigners. But let's be real here - a Foreigner vs Foreigner finals, or a Korean vs Foreigner finals would have triple the viewership.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
No, your facts are wrong. The facts are that the finals for the most recent MLG had the highest concurrent viewer count of the tournament, despite all the foreigners being eliminated before the Ro8.
Sorry man, your facts are incorrect. It's true that the finals may have slightly more concurrent than lets say, the round of 16 matches with Foreigners. But let's be real here - a Foreigner vs Foreigner finals, or a Korean vs Foreigner finals would have triple the viewership.
Yeah, clearly we would have had 420k concurrent viewers if only a white guy had made it to the finals. That's a ridiculous statement to make and is in no way true. The finals did not have " slightly " more viewers, it had at least 50k more concurrent viewers.
You're comparing the finals and the Ro16. Compare the viewer count for Ro16 Kr vs Kr and Foreigner vs Kr or Foreigner vs Foreigner and it's another story.
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Dodgin I respect you immensely as a poster but you wrong here. WCS EU last year was the highest watched tournament in 2012
Fact is the fans who only want to see high level starcraft is a very little minority. Just look at WCS NA and then compared it to WCS EU or Shoutcraft.
The casual fans don't care about "high level" starcraft they care about there players. And is like that in every single sport in the world!
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
No, your facts are wrong. The facts are that the finals for the most recent MLG had the highest concurrent viewer count of the tournament, despite all the foreigners being eliminated before the Ro8.
Sorry man, your facts are incorrect. It's true that the finals may have slightly more concurrent than lets say, the round of 16 matches with Foreigners. But let's be real here - a Foreigner vs Foreigner finals, or a Korean vs Foreigner finals would have triple the viewership.
Yeah, clearly we would have had 420k concurrent viewers if only a white guy had made it to the finals. That's a ridiculous statement to make and is in no way true. The finals did not have " slightly " more viewers, it had at least 50k more concurrent viewers.
Then I suppose we'll all shut up then, as you clearly know better than every tournament, every figure in e-sports and professional player/personality in the industry who are constantly preaching storylines, growing the foreigner player-base so fans can relate to them and enforcing region-locks.
And even if your "fact" has any truth (which you should really source a this point btw), we can show you the "facts" 100 times over that tournaments usually lose foreigner viewership when foreigner personalities are eliminated.
I do respect your point of view, but it is incredibly frustrating that some people look at the situation with a short-term perspective. In a perfect world skill would be all that matters. But it's not perfect, and if we really want long-term growth in SC2 we're going to have to get with the program and give the masses what they want: players they can really relate to.
I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
He's not wrong. Sorry bud. I've watched every MLG. Every single one since the very, very beginning. It's true except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16.
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
shellbot absorbed them all to make the perfect being
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
He's not wrong. Sorry bud. I've watched every MLG. Every single one since the very, very beginning. It's true except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16.
" It's true "
" except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16 "
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
Of course it's dying. Where are the North American players to root for in the big tourneys? There's a handful at best. We need to focus on developing the talent that's there, supporting them financially by giving them opportunities to earn money without some Korean coming in to make a quick buck then leaving without a word.
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
He's not wrong. Sorry bud. I've watched every MLG. Every single one since the very, very beginning. It's true except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16.
" It's true "
" except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16 "
I would love to see some solid data set I'm wondering if MLG got stats on that. Personally I have also noticed a massive drop in viewer-ship when the last NA or foreigner was knocked out.
But frankly we don't even have to discuss this look at the WCS NA viewer ship numbers and then look at shoutcraft. Shoutcraft had a lot more viewers
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst. What they want is the old times with Idra's and HuK's who could win large international premier tournaments with Koreans in them.
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst. What they want is the old times with Idra's and HuK's who could win large international premier tournaments with Koreans in them.
The NA scene never got a chance. I said this a few pages back. What would had happen to the Korean BW scene if hypotherical Boxer suddenly had to play a bunch of Chinese professional who was 10 years ahead of them. No Boxer, no Bisu no Flash. No Korean pro gaming scene.
Finals are finals. I don't know who is factually correct but I don't find it surprising that the finals would have big numbers even with Korean vs Korean. It would take insane amounts of disinterest for people to not watch the finals of a tournament that they've been following for 3 days. I think these guys see an immediate dip in numbers once the foreigners are knocked out, which absolutely does seem to happen. I think everyone notices that. But then it climbs back up for the finals just by virtue of being the finals. Potential viewership has to be lost there. Ro16 with foreigners vs finals without, is perhaps not the best comparison.
Plus Life vs Flash is literally the dream scenario for a tournament. No Koreans could draw bigger numbers than those two at the time. I think we can agree that if the finals of the last MLG were any combination of Thorzain, Stephano, Huk or Ret, that the numbers would have been at least comparable and probably even surpassed Flash vs Life. And the numbers in the semis and quarter finals would have been much bigger. People do want to watch their players.
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
He's not wrong. Sorry bud. I've watched every MLG. Every single one since the very, very beginning. It's true except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16.
" It's true "
" except in rare instances and perhaps the finals vs round of 16 "
Dodgin, there have been hundreds of tournaments since the Beta. Literally hundreds. You're arguing a point based on the viewership of one tournament, which also happened to be the first big tourney for SC2's first expansion HoTs. . .
If I stated at any point that "without exception there are no tournaments that Korean vs Korean gets higher viewership than X", then I recant it. It doesn't change what people are saying on here - that such cases that you mentioned are extremely rare. It doesn't change the truth of the matter. Foreigners prefer to watch Foreigner vs Foreigner or Foreigner vs Korean because they can relate to at least one of the players in the match. They usually can't do this with Koreans. The numbers support this sentiment. So do the pros. So do the tournaments. I can source dozens of personalities behind the e-sports scene that have stated their opinion on this matter.
Hell, Live on Three was just talking about this the other day for like 30 minutes!
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
shellbot absorbed them all to make the perfect being
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Dodgin I respect you immensely as a poster but you wrong here. WCS EU last year was the highest watched tournament in 2012
Fact is the fans who only want to see high level starcraft is a very little minority. Just look at WCS NA and then compared it to WCS EU or Shoutcraft.
The casual fans don't care about "high level" starcraft they care about there players. And is like that in every single sport in the world!
What you're not considering is that WCS EU is high level Starcraft, the best EU players are extremely good players. Now think back to the WCS NA finals last year, very few people watched or cared about it.(partly to do with the way it was handled, happening during the main MLG tournament) WCS NA 2012 was not high level Starcraft, Scarlett won easily, it was one sided and rather boring to watch.
There is an audience for high level Korean games, and It's not a small audience either. Group B of the ro16 for the current GSL season got very very good viewership.
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is.
I really think this is because they've never had a tournament they could excel in. We all know this old argument. NA tournaments have been flooded with top Koreans for two and a half years now. The skill gap wasn't always as huge as it is now. Who knows, Europe might have been stunted the same way if Dreamhack and ESL flew in 20 Code A+ Koreans to every event, the way MLG, IPL, to a lesser extend NASL did. I think some of us were hoping WCS would fill that role.
Also, to your above post, those games were definitely boring. They were not bad, low quality, or whatever. They were boring because it was all zvz.
On May 24 2013 06:23 Dodgin wrote: I'm not disagreeing that the there is a potential for more viewers if a fan favorite foreign player like Naniwa or Stephano makes it to the finals, I'm just disagreeing with this:
On May 24 2013 06:12 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:10 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:07 TheButtonmen wrote:
On May 24 2013 06:03 Dodgin wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:45 SCST wrote:
On May 24 2013 05:31 Leporello wrote: I'm personally glad with the results. The better players won.
Do you guys not realize what the "W" in WCS stands for? WCS NA and WCS EU are great because of Koreans. There are plenty of NA-only tournaments, the WCS is our chance to see the best players of all nationalities face-off against each other.
It's great to see Suppy and Scarlett get to play against the likes of HerO and Revival. Maybe next season we'll see the foreigners get better results, but not if we just coddle them away from "those mean Koreans".
Do you realize that you are justifying destroying a regional SC2 scene? You think it's "good" to continue watching with the other minority of viewers who only care about skill-level? If we only had people like you in the community, SC2 would be dead long ago. And that includes all the Koreans as well. You think Blizzard would bother to prop-up GoM and Kespa with prize money if the foreign scene were completely dead?
There is no SC2 without money. There is no money without sustainable viewership. There is no sustainable viewership without story-lines. There are no story-lines that that foreigners can relate to with Koreans
Get it yet? It's not that hard.
This is just plain wrong, and you are really ignorant to say such a thing. Some of the biggest Fan Club threads on this website are for Korean players, they have a story behind them and lots of fans. Mvp, Marineking, MC, MMA, Nestea, Parting, Liquid`Hero, Flash, Polt, Bomber and many others.
Then why do viewer counts always drop off after the last foreigner is eliminated? The population of TL isn't the average viewer, it's the hard core more Korean centered fans.
They don't
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I'm saying your facts are wrong. MLG's events have always seen drops in the viewer count when the last foreigner was eliminated.
This is wrong, end of story.
I'm not talking about potential!
I'm talking about we are losing starcraft fans in north America very fast. 2 Years ago I remember Team liquid had a massive North American fan base. Today looking at Team liquid is like where did the NA fan base go?
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst. What they want is the old times with Idra's and HuK's who could win large international premier tournaments with Koreans in them.
The NA scene never got a chance. I said this a few pages back. What would had happen to the Korean BW scene if hypotherical Boxer suddenly had to play a bunch of Chinese professional who was 10 years ahead of them. No Boxer, no Bisu no Flash. No Korean pro gaming scene.
This sums it up. NA had a brief "chance" or "moment" in the beginning near the beta. Within that short time period we gained fans for players like Incontrol, Nony, Idra, Huk etc that lasted literally for years even with lackluster results. Imagine if America had a meaningful tournament like WCS to compete amongst themselves for a while. It would be such a cu for the scene here - the viewership would grow tremendously and the entire SC2 industry would benefit. No one would lose. So why fight against it?
I'm not fighting against it, I have a problem with claiming things like " Korean players do not have a story that foreign fans are interested in ". or " MLG always loses viewers after the last foreigner is out. "
You can make your points without ignorance and incorrect facts, I would be completely fine with region locked WCS EU & AM, I miss seeing Hero play in GSL.
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst.
Why did Shoutcraft AM smash WCS AM viewercounts and peak higher then WCS EU at times then?
On May 24 2013 06:48 Dodgin wrote: I'm not fighting against it, I have a problem with claiming things like " Korean players do not have a story that foreign fans are interested in ". or " MLG always loses viewers after the last foreigner is out. "
You can make your points without ignorance and incorrect facts, I would be completely fine with region locked WCS EU & AM, I miss seeing Hero play in GSL.
I have no problem acknowledging the language regarding those assertions.
Tournaments usually lose viewers, either relative to their potential or just dipping completely, when the last foreigner is out.
Korean players usually do not have a story that foreign fans are interested in or can relate to.
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst.
Why did Shoutcraft AM smash WCS AM viewercounts and peak higher then WCS EU at times then?
Because Totalbiscuit and Husky advertized the tournament extremely well, using their large Youtube channels to get viewers that would otherwise not watch live Starcraft 2 tournaments. You also had the anti-WCS AM sentiment in the community at the time of the tournament announcement because of how badly the qualifiers were run, as well as letting Korean players into the tournament. The first day of Shoutcraft AM did extremely well but every day afterwards had significantly less viewers.
Also, I don't believe Shoutcraft AM ever beat WCS EU Premier in viewers, maybe they beat Challenger.
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst.
Why did Shoutcraft AM smash WCS AM viewercounts and peak higher then WCS EU at times then?
TB and other co-casters plus anti-MLG/WCS sentiment
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst.
Why did Shoutcraft AM smash WCS AM viewercounts and peak higher then WCS EU at times then?
TB and other co-casters plus anti-MLG/WCS sentiment
On May 24 2013 06:48 Dodgin wrote: I'm not fighting against it, I have a problem with claiming things like " Korean players do not have a story that foreign fans are interested in ". or " MLG always loses viewers after the last foreigner is out. "
You can make your points without ignorance and incorrect facts, I would be completely fine with region locked WCS EU & AM, I miss seeing Hero play in GSL.
I have no problem acknowledging the language regarding those assertions.
Tournaments usually lose viewers, either relative to their potential or just dipping completely, when the last foreigner is out.
Korean players usually do not have a story that foreign fans are interested in or can relate to.
I can agree with that. But, I think the WCS AM finals weekend will be successful because they do not have a bunch of " boring " Koreans with no history or story. Instead they have Hero, Axiom Players, and most likely Polt, then you have Snute and Moonglade for the foreigners to cheer for. Revival is the only Korean player in the top 8 that comes across to me as " boring ".
Like I said earlier, if you want to prove to MLG and Blizzard that this cannot be a success then vote with your eyes and don't watch it. Change can only happen if it becomes obvious that the current model doesn't work for the fans.
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst.
Why did Shoutcraft AM smash WCS AM viewercounts and peak higher then WCS EU at times then?
TB and other co-casters plus anti-MLG/WCS sentiment
The NA fan base who only likes NA players moved onto something else, because none of their players could compete with consistency. Yeah that sucks, but it is what it is. WCS AM with only AM players won't bring those fans back, most of them don't want to see AM playing competing amongst themselves for who is the best of the worst.
Why did Shoutcraft AM smash WCS AM viewercounts and peak higher then WCS EU at times then?
Because Totalbiscuit and Husky advertized the tournament extremely well, using their large Youtube channels to get viewers that would otherwise not watch live Starcraft 2 tournaments. You also had the anti-WCS AM sentiment in the community at the time of the tournament announcement because of how badly the qualifiers were run, as well as letting Korean players into the tournament. The first day of Shoutcraft AM did extremely well but every day afterwards had significantly less viewers.
Also, I don't believe Shoutcraft AM ever beat WCS EU Premier in viewers, maybe they beat Challenger.
If I remember correctly, the main complaint towards MLG was regarding Chinese players, which should have nothing to do with people watching NA players on Shout-craft.
I think people wanted both to see NA players in their own tournament and to get back at Blizzard for allowing the Korean payers into the tournament. That pretty much validates that there is a problem here. So we are in agreement there.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS for each region. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS NA. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is fundamentally better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
and who are you to say what the purpose of WCS AM was to be or not? blizzard works in their own ways
while i don't like the current WCS format either, let's not post misinformation please
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS NA. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
That´s actually an excellent point Azarkon. Never really thought about it like that but you might be right.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS NA. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is fundamentally better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
and who are you to say what the purpose of WCS AM was to be or not? blizzard works in their own ways
while i don't like the current WCS format either, let's not post misinformation please
Well it kind of contradicts itself doesn't it? Why have "America" in the title? Why have regions at all? Why not make everything one gigantic online tournament?
It's pretty clear what Blizzard intended to do. Hell, they actually did a better job last WCS - at least then they enforced region-locks to some extent. They just didn't do it right this time.
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS NA. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is fundamentally better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
and who are you to say what the purpose of WCS AM was to be or not? blizzard works in their own ways
while i don't like the current WCS format either, let's not post misinformation please
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS NA. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is fundamentally better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
and who are you to say what the purpose of WCS AM was to be or not? blizzard works in their own ways
while i don't like the current WCS format either, let's not post misinformation please
Well it kind of contradicts itself doesn't it? Why have "America" in the title? Why have regions at all? Why not make everything one gigantic online tournament?
It's pretty clear what Blizzard intended to do. Hell, they actually did a better job last WCS - at least then they enforced region-locks to some extent. They just didn't do it right this time.
because it's played in america during a time suitable for americas? i dno, ask blizzard
This would translate in WCS Season Final spots like that:
Korea: 10 spots Europe 5.5 spots NA: 0.5 spots.
I think both sides have valid points. The WCS idea is to have three continental events of equal strength but WCS America will be soon a second Code S and there are a lot of esports fans out there that still want to watch their local heros. This is a problem but it is not necessarily the best solution to change to tournament structure. The best solution would be to increase the skill level of the american players but how to achieve that?
What people are not understanding is that it is the WCS format itself that is broken.
What is the purpose of WCS NA? It's not to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST. It's to provide a level playing field for players in the NA region - ie those who play on the NA server.
This was not designed to be a shortcut for Korean players to bypass WCS Korea. That defeats the purpose of holding a WCS NA. You want additional Korean slots in WCS World because they're the better players? Then have WCS Korea yield additional spots.
An expanded spots system is fundamentally better than this hack of a system because, at the minimum, it is a competition of skill, and not your ability to fly over to NA. These players - and I'm talking about all the players who played in WCS NA without being forced to do so - are going through a loophole where they actively dodge the better players in their own region for a competitive advantage.
They have no business doing this. There are two ways people view WCS NA. One is that it ought to reward the best players, in which case dodging competition is the last thing we want players to do. The other is that it's about regional competition and supporting the regional scenes, in which case each region ought to have region lock and its own local players fly to WCS world.
WCS NA has achieved neither. Instead, we have a system which rewards competition dodging and fails to support NA players at the same time.
and who are you to say what the purpose of WCS AM was to be or not? blizzard works in their own ways
while i don't like the current WCS format either, let's not post misinformation please
What else is it for?
you mentioned one possibility yourself "to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST"
i'm not saying that is what they aimed for, but without a clear statement from blizzard we can't conclude anything
On May 24 2013 07:15 opterown wrote: you mentioned one possibility yourself "to provide NA viewers with a GSL at 3 PM PST / 6 PM EST"
i'm not saying that is what they aimed for, but without a clear statement from blizzard we can't conclude anything
That's ludicrous. First of all, 3 PM PST is in the middle of the day for West Coast Americans, who make up a huge chunk of NA Starcraft fans - and is thus not a viable time slot. That's why NASL held their showings from 6 PM PST to 9 PM PST - because that's the prime time slot for American viewers on PST and CST, while EST folks are still able to work around it given a 8-5 work day.
Second, had they wanted to run a GSL at NA time, there is an easier and better way - hold it on the Korean server at 6 PM PST, which is around the time Koreans start their day.
On May 24 2013 08:01 Schelim wrote: so is there anyone not from the Americas that would rather see only american players in WCS NA?
No, couldn't care less about 4th tier NA "pros", and I'm a Canadian living in China. Have always disliked Scarlett (patch zerg!) and I get a sense of satisfaction whenever I see the sad likes of qxc or machine get demolished and toyed around by Koreans.
BW survived just fine for more than 10 years in Korea, so as long as Proleague (one team league) and GSL (one individual league) exist I couldn't give less of a fuck for sc dying outside of Korea, because I only have so much leisure time and I'd rather watch the likes of Soulkey and Flash than some terribad NA "pros".
On May 24 2013 08:01 Schelim wrote: so is there anyone not from the Americas that would rather see only american players in WCS NA?
No, couldn't care less about 4th tier NA "pros", and I'm a Canadian living in China. Have always disliked Scarlett (patch zerg!) and I get a sense of satisfaction whenever I see the sad likes of qxc or machine get demolished and toyed around by Koreans.
BW survived just fine for more than 10 years in Korea, so as long as Proleague (one team league) and GSL (one individual league) exist I couldn't give less of a fuck for sc dying outside of Korea, because I only have so much leisure time and I'd rather watch the likes of Soulkey and Flash than some terribad NA "pros".
I'm sure all 10 of you is going to have a fun time
On May 24 2013 08:01 Schelim wrote: so is there anyone not from the Americas that would rather see only american players in WCS NA?
No, couldn't care less about 4th tier NA "pros", and I'm a Canadian living in China. Have always disliked Scarlett (patch zerg!) and I get a sense of satisfaction whenever I see the sad likes of qxc or machine get demolished and toyed around by Koreans.
BW survived just fine for more than 10 years in Korea, so as long as Proleague (one team league) and GSL (one individual league) exist I couldn't give less of a fuck for sc dying outside of Korea, because I only have so much leisure time and I'd rather watch the likes of Soulkey and Flash than some terribad NA "pros".
without international scene, sc2 will die in korea
On May 24 2013 15:19 Schelim wrote: maybe, but the international scene won't die because there are Koreans in WCS NA season 1. come on bro.
Yeah and that's not the point. Well, it wouldn't be the point if people were smart enough to think a little further and understand that what really matters here is one thing and one thing only - what Blizzard wants WCS to be.
Instead we get stupid comments like "I'm done watching this because Koreans in WCS NA". Well kthx, you're not helping anybody with that.
I care a bit more about challenger, to be brutally honest. Not to say it's a terrible evil thing htere are koreans in wcs NA, but I just don't think I"ll watch it. (LR good enough for me, unless games are exceptional)
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/wcs/wcs_na_lr.jpg)
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WCS America![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png)
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HerO vs. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/4/42/Ca.png)
Scarlett![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/2/2f/Us.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
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HerO spawns in the bottom right
Scarlett spawns in the top left
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NHLCCzJ.png)
