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On April 10 2013 23:46 s3rp wrote:
Anyone claiming Kespa >>> eSF after today needs to shut the hell up . The play of the whole group overall was pretty weak even sOs that pretty much dominated the group did not look that solid. If someone puts him at #1 Prtoss after this than thats just sad.
I don't care about KesPA vs. eSF but I'd like for you to substantiate your claim that it's sad to rank sOs as #1 Protoss.
What did he do today and in his SPL match against JYP that he could have done better? Who would you rank above him, and what they do better than him?
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On April 10 2013 14:28 waylander_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 14:16 Dodgin wrote:
If soo actually advances I'll be shocked, I'm pretty sure any posts predicting him to advance are just trying to bait ESF fans. Rank 13 in SPL brah, won MvP invitational, and trashed MVP last GSL, albeit in wings. Still, if you followed his play you'd know Soo is playing much better than the struggling MKP. Also, last season Curious lost a ZvZ to a guy who got 4-0'd by Snute, and he doesn't have a single accomplishment in the past 2 years. so should be cakewalk for Soo.
Told ya :D
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When I watch Kespa players play I don't get the feeling that they're much better than ESF ones. I mean, the top Kespa players seem about as good as the top ESF players, the average Kespa players aren't significantly better than average ESF players, and so on. So it seems strange that they're dominating in GSL.
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On April 10 2013 23:56 waylander_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 14:28 waylander_ wrote:On April 10 2013 14:16 Dodgin wrote:
If soo actually advances I'll be shocked, I'm pretty sure any posts predicting him to advance are just trying to bait ESF fans. Rank 13 in SPL brah, won MvP invitational, and trashed MVP last GSL, albeit in wings. Still, if you followed his play you'd know Soo is playing much better than the struggling MKP. Also, last season Curious lost a ZvZ to a guy who got 4-0'd by Snute, and he doesn't have a single accomplishment in the past 2 years. so should be cakewalk for Soo. Told ya :D
Good prediction based on sound knowledge. He didn't play MKP but if he did I imagine he would've done even better than Curious did.
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On April 10 2013 23:57 Empirimancer wrote:
When I watch Kespa players play I don't get the feeling that they're much better than ESF ones. I mean, the top Kespa players seem about as good as the top ESF players, the average Kespa players aren't significantly better than average ESF players, and so on. So it seems strange that they're dominating in GSL.
Really? It's my impression that the average KesPA player has a bit better composure, multitasking ability, decision-making and knowledge of what strategies work vs. the strategies their opponent employs.
I attribute this to a better practice environment with more experienced coaches and fellow players, who have been around a long time. Also, I think the SPL format forces the participating teams to improve practice for all or most members, because ace players are less important than in the GSTL all-kill format where one or two ace players may be relied on to win matches solely by themselves.
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On April 10 2013 23:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:55 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On April 10 2013 22:34 opterown wrote:
the strange thing is that i don't see many (if at all) insufferable esf fans going esf >>> kespa when kespa players lose eSF fans are teenagely nice, still naive. KeSPA fans are in midlife crisis, nasty is necessary. so I'm having midlife crisis at the age of 20...man do i grow old fast.
I'm afraid he can be right about me :D
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On April 10 2013 23:08 sinigang wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:56 slowbacontron wrote:
I saw plenty of esf fans in the previews for this group who claimed that Curious and MKP were easily going to win, probably because they hadn't paid any attention to the Kespa scene. But yes, it's the Kespa fans who come crowing over every frikkin' victory these days because Kespa is the cool thing to support, the "new" kids on the block (maybe an opportunity for the old fans to flaunt their superiority). I think a major reason this is happening is because KeSPA fans felt disrespected back in 2010 when new fans who only followed SC2 and eSF players started proclaiming new gods and heroes of StarCraft (which were mere B-teamers and punching bags in BW by the way). KeSPA fans couldn't stand that these players were freeloading in SC2 while their heroes were stuck playing BW and had to go through a long and tough transition period. Now that that's over and KeSPA is here to stay for good, the old school fans are seeking a sense of vindication. This will last until tournaments are dominantly represented by KeSPA (which includes KeSPA picking up straggling eSF pros). 
Or some of the Kespa players just wanted to stay in their comfortable zone while getting a salary. You might think it is freeloading but players that moved to sc2 early also took a big risk. A lot of the other lesser Kespa player didn't have the balls to do it.
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On April 10 2013 22:34 opterown wrote:
the strange thing is that i don't see many (if at all) insufferable esf fans going esf >>> kespa when kespa players lose
that's because kespa is allowed to lose and esf is not 
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Hooray. Both my boys made it through. SoO you had me worried.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
I think we can all agree one thing. Kespa players have better ZvZ skills for sure. With the muta buff the skill difference is even bigger.
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ESF players need to wake up fast, or GSL will turn into a kespa league. None of this streaming, foreign tournament, twitter/facebook in between games crap
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On April 11 2013 00:10 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:57 Empirimancer wrote:
When I watch Kespa players play I don't get the feeling that they're much better than ESF ones. I mean, the top Kespa players seem about as good as the top ESF players, the average Kespa players aren't significantly better than average ESF players, and so on. So it seems strange that they're dominating in GSL.
Really? It's my impression that the average KesPA player has a bit better composure, multitasking ability, decision-making and knowledge of what strategies work vs. the strategies their opponent employs. [...]
It's my feeling as well, and I don't care at all for the "Kespa vs ESF" thing so I can't really be biased.
In fact, my favorite player is an ESF player, and I'll be the first to admit that he got his ass handed to him pretty badly today :D
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On April 11 2013 00:19 waylander_ wrote:
ESF players need to wake up fast, or GSL will turn into a kespa league. None of this streaming, foreign tournament, twitter/facebook in between games crap
Don't mind an all KeSPa GSL, don't mind an all ESF GSL. If foreigners would take all spots through qualifiers, wouldn't mind that either. I'd like to watch the best games possible and the players that do qualify are 'GENERALLY' speaking the best. Ofcourse you cannot determine and say those top 32 are the best players in the world, but they certainly earned their spot for that season.
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On April 10 2013 23:52 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:46 s3rp wrote:
Anyone claiming Kespa >>> eSF after today needs to shut the hell up . The play of the whole group overall was pretty weak even sOs that pretty much dominated the group did not look that solid. If someone puts him at #1 Prtoss after this than thats just sad. I don't care about KesPA vs. eSF but I'd like for you to substantiate your claim that it's sad to rank sOs as #1 Protoss. What did he do today and in his SPL match against JYP that he could have done better? Who would you rank above him, and what they do better than him?
Usually when i see a great player i see something that wow's me . Something he does extraordinarily well . I just don't see it in sOs . He's pretty good but he doesn't strike me as a special player. He won today builds that most likely his opponents haven't faced before . Soo and MKP both really didn't properly react . In term of who's #1 Toss ? I don't know . Can't say i think there's a definitive number #1 . Hell it could be sOs but if he is i don't think it's going to stay that we because i don't think the way he won today has sustainability.
Btw i barely watch SPL it's in the middle of the night and Whiplash and Supernovamaniac are .... well not so good. I also barely watch VOD's . If it's not live i won't watch it.
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On April 11 2013 00:29 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:52 Giriath wrote:On April 10 2013 23:46 s3rp wrote:
Anyone claiming Kespa >>> eSF after today needs to shut the hell up . The play of the whole group overall was pretty weak even sOs that pretty much dominated the group did not look that solid. If someone puts him at #1 Prtoss after this than thats just sad. I don't care about KesPA vs. eSF but I'd like for you to substantiate your claim that it's sad to rank sOs as #1 Protoss. What did he do today and in his SPL match against JYP that he could have done better? Who would you rank above him, and what they do better than him? Usually when i see a great player i see something that wow's me . Something he does extraordinarily well . I just don't see it in sOs . He's pretty good but he doesn't strike me as a special player. He won today builds that most likely his opponents haven't faced before . Soo and MKP both really didn't properly react . In term of who's #1 Toss ? I don't know . Can't say i think there's a definitive number #1 . Hell it could be sOs but if he is i don't think it's going to stay that we because i don't think the way he won today has sustainability. Btw i barely watch SPL it's in the middle of the night and Whiplash and Supernovamaniac are .... well not so good. I also barely watch VOD's . If it's not live i won't watch it.
Must be student if its in the middle of the night for you :D
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On April 11 2013 00:23 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 00:10 Giriath wrote:On April 10 2013 23:57 Empirimancer wrote:
When I watch Kespa players play I don't get the feeling that they're much better than ESF ones. I mean, the top Kespa players seem about as good as the top ESF players, the average Kespa players aren't significantly better than average ESF players, and so on. So it seems strange that they're dominating in GSL.
Really? It's my impression that the average KesPA player has a bit better composure, multitasking ability, decision-making and knowledge of what strategies work vs. the strategies their opponent employs. [...] It's my feeling as well, and I don't care at all for the "Kespa vs ESF" thing so I can't really be biased. In fact, my favorite player is an ESF player, and I'll be the first to admit that he got his ass handed to him pretty badly today :D
MKP hasn't been very good in GSL for a while now though . Every now and then he play awesome for a few games giving you hope he'll return to is old self . Only to put of a complete stinker like today. Especially the Curious series was just horrible by MKP.
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On April 11 2013 00:33 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 00:29 s3rp wrote:On April 10 2013 23:52 Giriath wrote:On April 10 2013 23:46 s3rp wrote:
Anyone claiming Kespa >>> eSF after today needs to shut the hell up . The play of the whole group overall was pretty weak even sOs that pretty much dominated the group did not look that solid. If someone puts him at #1 Prtoss after this than thats just sad. I don't care about KesPA vs. eSF but I'd like for you to substantiate your claim that it's sad to rank sOs as #1 Protoss. What did he do today and in his SPL match against JYP that he could have done better? Who would you rank above him, and what they do better than him? Usually when i see a great player i see something that wow's me . Something he does extraordinarily well . I just don't see it in sOs . He's pretty good but he doesn't strike me as a special player. He won today builds that most likely his opponents haven't faced before . Soo and MKP both really didn't properly react . In term of who's #1 Toss ? I don't know . Can't say i think there's a definitive number #1 . Hell it could be sOs but if he is i don't think it's going to stay that we because i don't think the way he won today has sustainability. Btw i barely watch SPL it's in the middle of the night and Whiplash and Supernovamaniac are .... well not so good. I also barely watch VOD's . If it's not live i won't watch it. Must be student if its in the middle of the night for you :D
SPL is really early somewhere 3am to 6am , right ? Sometimes it might be at different times but not times i can watch regularly IRC:
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On April 11 2013 00:33 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 00:23 ZenithM wrote:On April 11 2013 00:10 Giriath wrote:On April 10 2013 23:57 Empirimancer wrote:
When I watch Kespa players play I don't get the feeling that they're much better than ESF ones. I mean, the top Kespa players seem about as good as the top ESF players, the average Kespa players aren't significantly better than average ESF players, and so on. So it seems strange that they're dominating in GSL.
Really? It's my impression that the average KesPA player has a bit better composure, multitasking ability, decision-making and knowledge of what strategies work vs. the strategies their opponent employs. [...] It's my feeling as well, and I don't care at all for the "Kespa vs ESF" thing so I can't really be biased. In fact, my favorite player is an ESF player, and I'll be the first to admit that he got his ass handed to him pretty badly today :D MKP hasn't been very good in GSL for a while now though . Every now and then he play awesome for a few games giving you hope he'll return to is old self . Only to put of a complete stinker like today. Especially the Curious series was just horrible by MKP.
MKP was one of the best non-Kespa TvZer pre-HotS though (he beat Roro pretty handily in the GSL Roro won :D). People say his TvZ was horrible, but so was everybody else's. Maybe Taeja's was a bit better, but that's about it. Now MKP just loses everything, and Taeja is but a broken shadow.
Then, people like Innovation and Flash came up, and that's about when I started to think that Kespa was about to overtake ESF as the organisation with the best players.
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On April 10 2013 23:32 Shellshock1122 wrote:
why do people care about kespa or esf. it doesnt fucking matter
Oh it matters. I despise anyone that is a fan of ESF. I think BW is superior in every way over SC2 and that KESPA players are the best RTS players. So by them crushing ESF guys I think it validates my believe. Its one of the main reasons I follow the SC2 scene. I also dont get why people get upset when someone posts about one or the other superiority. Thats the kind of stuff that makes rooting for sports so fun. As long as its done in a not in your face way, I dont see anything wrong with it. I would love to have SC2 get to a point where you go to a live event, and some players actually get booed and stuff (minus of course flash cause thats just not cool).
But yeah it matters to some of us, I'll never ever root for ESF and wont be satisfied till they all go back to being B-team dishwashers, harsh I know, but its how I feel.
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EPT
