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On April 11 2013 08:56 Talack wrote:
I really can't believe that ESF vs KESPA shit is still being talked about.
NOBODY CARES
People care, it's why it's being discussed.
I mean it's a stupid discussion with 0 evidence being used, incorrect references to "the elephant", amazingly poor baiting and some great e-peen need to prove superiority that I like some guys and they're doing good thus I'm good.
And at the end of the day people don't care for the organisations. They care for a couple of players, but even then thats not the point. People care about being right by ensuring that other people's opinions are wrong. Opinions. Wrong. Yeah, this is a great debate.
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On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself 
You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor.
all the eSF fans bashed kespa? i don't think so, that's selective memory talking WCS KR was a hell to LR since all the esf and kespa fans were going at each other, i don't think you can say that esf fans were worse at that time at all. and it's not like kespa fans already bashed on esf fans with the elephant article already. we can always argue about whether greedo or han shot first, but that doesn't given for a fun environment.
i'm not a kespa hater, i have my clear favourite players and teams, and would root for jangbi, herO and KHAN over almost all eSF equivalents (save for prime and fxo) but i'm just annoyed at some of the attitudes of late.
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On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor.
As opertown said, that's just selective memory. If I throw some bias in my post I could say "Well Kespa fans have been bashing ESF fans before their players even switched with the elephant article, bashing players and casters for switching and generally calling it a 'terrible' or 'easy' game. So they got their just deserts."
See. It's easy to be selective and just remember the idiotic posts or swing an argument one way.
Returning the favour is a terrible argument. Eye for an eye? Just becomes cyclical and based around revenge.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
All this hate and immaturity is the reason why I don't go into LR threads much any more
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On April 11 2013 09:55 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor. As opertown said, that's just selective memory. If I throw some bias in my post I could say "Well Kespa fans have been bashing ESF fans before their players even switched with the elephant article, bashing players and casters for switching and generally calling it a 'terrible' or 'easy' game. So they got their just deserts." See. It's easy to be selective and just remember the idiotic posts or swing an argument one way. Returning the favour is a terrible argument. Eye for an eye? Just becomes cyclical and based around revenge.
I didn't even go into the SC2 forums until KeSPa switched over. All I remember is SC2 nerds coming into the BW LR threads during 2010-onward periods and saying "since BW is gonna die anyways, it should die asap so that their pros can start practicing asap, otherwise they will never catch up to current SC2 players~~"
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On April 11 2013 10:25 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:55 bittman wrote:On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor. As opertown said, that's just selective memory. If I throw some bias in my post I could say "Well Kespa fans have been bashing ESF fans before their players even switched with the elephant article, bashing players and casters for switching and generally calling it a 'terrible' or 'easy' game. So they got their just deserts." See. It's easy to be selective and just remember the idiotic posts or swing an argument one way. Returning the favour is a terrible argument. Eye for an eye? Just becomes cyclical and based around revenge. I didn't even go into the SC2 forums until KeSPa switched over. All I remember is SC2 nerds coming into the BW LR threads during 2010-onward periods and saying "since BW is gonna die anyways, it should die asap so that their pros can start practicing asap, otherwise they will never catch up to current SC2 players~~"
This did happen actually (for those who don't know and need an impartial witness). Even after the transition there were still a few no-post posters telling people to forget BW because it was dead and antagonizing the board. It didn't happen often but of course it was painful to see for BW fans. But to pigeonhole all SC2 fans as haters of BW who are glad that it's been retired is just as bad as ESF fans thinking all BW fans are elitists whose game is irrelevant. Hatred, even in the guise of sports fandom, has no place in this world.
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On April 11 2013 09:21 Maghetti wrote:
After reading through the thread I want to give my perspective on kespa vs esf. I most definitely root for even the most obscure kespa player over my favorite esf players. Why? I am not someone who greatly followed the bw scene like some of these guys but I did play bw off and on(terribly) for years and when I finally found videos and replays of pro bw play I was blown away. Everything I had ever done in bw was massively wrong. I knew from experience how hard the game was to control and I saw people doing 100x the things I could do in the game. I learned of the extensive training, the coaching, the difficulty it took to break out in that game and was convinced it was the most impressive thing I have ever seen in gaming. After sc2 came out I primarily watched it but I felt the bw pros were the better players, though I still enjoyed the hell out of sc2. With people saying stuff like "different game different skills" and "totally new game" that annoys the hell out of me. It is not a totally new game, it a sequel very similar to the original with many of the same skills and some new ones. Ultimately it is about justifying my original view and every tiny increase in kespa skill and improvement in results until there is nothing but kespa in gsl, osl, etc is extremely exciting to me. If they do finally reach that state ill lose a small bit of my interest but oh well, in the mean time, I want to be proven right and wanting to be proven right is a powerful motivator.
Thank you.  I guess this is the type of attitude KeSPA players want from those who didn't follow the BW scene -- learning and respecting the history, people, and discplines of Korean StarCraft, knowing BW and SC2 aren't entirely different games, and realizing that the primal SC2 legends may not be the best after all as TBLS and other top KeSPA pros reclaim the arena.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
saying kespa > esf doesn't help at all with teaching or respecting history lol, it just makes esf fans hate kespa fans
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On April 11 2013 10:43 sinigang wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:21 Maghetti wrote:
After reading through the thread I want to give my perspective on kespa vs esf. I most definitely root for even the most obscure kespa player over my favorite esf players. Why? I am not someone who greatly followed the bw scene like some of these guys but I did play bw off and on(terribly) for years and when I finally found videos and replays of pro bw play I was blown away. Everything I had ever done in bw was massively wrong. I knew from experience how hard the game was to control and I saw people doing 100x the things I could do in the game. I learned of the extensive training, the coaching, the difficulty it took to break out in that game and was convinced it was the most impressive thing I have ever seen in gaming. After sc2 came out I primarily watched it but I felt the bw pros were the better players, though I still enjoyed the hell out of sc2. With people saying stuff like "different game different skills" and "totally new game" that annoys the hell out of me. It is not a totally new game, it a sequel very similar to the original with many of the same skills and some new ones. Ultimately it is about justifying my original view and every tiny increase in kespa skill and improvement in results until there is nothing but kespa in gsl, osl, etc is extremely exciting to me. If they do finally reach that state ill lose a small bit of my interest but oh well, in the mean time, I want to be proven right and wanting to be proven right is a powerful motivator. Thank you. I guess this is the type of attitude KeSPA players want from those who didn't follow the BW scene -- learning and respecting the history, people, and discplines of Korean StarCraft, knowing BW and SC2 aren't entirely different games, and realizing that the primal SC2 legends may not be the best after all as TBLS and other top KeSPA pros reclaim the arena.
You really think Taekbang are still gonna get good at this game? Leessang is in danger of just becoming Lee with JD slumping bad on EG. Fringe A-teamers and B-teamers, just like ESF guys, are the ones succeeding right now. As much as I love old guys doing well, they will be replaced by a new generation.
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On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor.
I fail to see how citing that it's a different game is in any way an insult or a slight. A lot of people had this annoying notion that somehow BW skill would perfectly correlate with SC2 skill, and that has already been utterly disproven.
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As expected from Kespa. =)
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Where are the posts about the actual matches last night? All i see is shit everyone agrees no one should care about, but keeps getting talked about. If you think its a non issue or a silly discussion, then dont fan the flames and keep tslking about, especially if its to say, lets not talk about it.
My liquibet tanked last night, i figured at least mkp would make it through, but he just got hosed.
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Northern Ireland26099 Posts
Such is the ESF v Kespa pissing contest grapedog.
I loved seeing SoS' PvZ, really immortal heavy with storms. I've been trying something similar but it's nice to see it in the hands of someone who doesn't suck at the game
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On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor.
ForGG and Hyun were the first semi-big notable switches I recall. And you betcha, every single time they were defeated, it was always some pretty hardcore anti-BW this and that bashing. It really does go both ways. I guess it's a sign of how much certain people like to take stabs at each other, or how loyal they are to their roots... Or both
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On April 12 2013 07:17 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor. ForGG and Hyun were the first semi-big notable switches I recall. And you betcha, every single time they were defeated, it was always some pretty hardcore anti-BW this and that bashing. It really does go both ways. I guess it's a sign of how much certain people like to take stabs at each other, or how loyal they are to their roots... Or both
Well, ForGG I can understand. He had MASSIVE hype when he came onto the scene, especially since he rolled into code S undefeated. If I'm not mistaken ForGG was the catalyst that caused the Elephant in the Room article to be revived (thanks to a bump by TrollBid). I remember thinking he was good, but nowhere near as great as everyone was making him out to be. So when he got smashed to pieces by Leenock and never really did much of note after that, you can bet a shitstorm was rained on that whole Elephant mess. Just like anyone else who doesn't live up to anywhere near their hype level.
Oddly enough, Hyun, the more quietly hyped player went on to actually make something of himself. lol
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On April 11 2013 09:38 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:26 opterown wrote:It's all good to root for KeSPA players but there's no need to be massive pricks and shove it down eSF fan's throats whenever they win. There are a few people who have no posts in SC2 forums at all, other than to bash eSF, which I find really disappointing. I know it's quite a vocal minority, but it's not a productive thing to do, and if anything, turns people off from the games. You may not like SC2, or you may thing eSF fans are scum, but those are opinions you can keep to yourself You know when the Kespa players first switched over, all the ESF fans did was bash Kespa and keep citing how its a different game. Now that the tides have changed, the Kespa fans are just returning the favor.
Did you missed a certain article by any chance? Read the comments and then say that ESF fans started this whole shit.
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EPT
