|
On April 08 2013 19:22 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 19:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 08 2013 19:18 Yello wrote:On April 08 2013 19:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:
"Just wait till SH get figured out." Hm, yeah. They are figured out. Out maneuver em with expos and units. Dude wtf? Did you even watch the game? It was all-in vs all-in and Toss got the better all-in this time. How can you actually take this game and make any conclusion whatsoever about the use of swarm hosts? Well, i havent seen good usage of SH so far. Care to link some good games with them? Ret used swarmhosts pretty good at the first IEM of SC2. There's been other people using them well too. They're not a unit that can be figured out in a week or two and I'm glad about that, they've actually got a lot of depth to them.
Not really. Sting was just bad and the casters hyped Ret to the roof. We have to wait for KR Code S to finish, if something works well its gonna get used IMO.
|
On April 08 2013 19:21 opterown wrote:
honestly they should change the captain format, it's smarter to have a 1-pointer as your captain than flash, etc.
I do the same. I picked Aria as my captain because I guessed he would get some team points from being on Woongjin. Your idea about making captain wins is interesting, but I fear it would exacerbate the problem of picking a high-point captain, because the difference between a good captain and a bad captain (who had the same point value at the start) is even larger.
On April 08 2013 19:24 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 19:20 dainbramage wrote:On April 08 2013 19:17 sharkie wrote:
I will never understand playing the best players last If no-one else can win then it's just gonna be 2-4 instead of 0-4. 1. Map score is very important. 2. Ever heard of momentum? You can play much better with 1-2 than 0-2 behind
I thought that better players were sent out last because there would be more pressure on them. I imagine that the lesser players might feel happier knowing there is a kind of safety net behind them and that if they lose it isn't the end of the match for their team. I doubt going first has as much pressure as going out last.
|
On April 08 2013 20:03 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 19:49 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 08 2013 19:24 Arceus wrote:On April 08 2013 19:22 Qikz wrote:On April 08 2013 19:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 08 2013 19:18 Yello wrote:On April 08 2013 19:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:
"Just wait till SH get figured out." Hm, yeah. They are figured out. Out maneuver em with expos and units. Dude wtf? Did you even watch the game? It was all-in vs all-in and Toss got the better all-in this time. How can you actually take this game and make any conclusion whatsoever about the use of swarm hosts? Well, i havent seen good usage of SH so far. Care to link some good games with them? Ret used swarmhosts pretty good at the first IEM of SC2. There's been other people using them well too. They're not a unit that can be figured out in a week or two and I'm glad about that, they've actually got a lot of depth to them. as far as I concern, pros refuse to go SHs in GSTL/GSL/SPL. And when they did, it's pretty much a fuckin joke. The only fairly good usage is a game on DMZ in which terran tried to be as passive as possible (and still won) I am quite convinced that pros aren't using them the way they should, I've seen better usage of Swarm Hosts from some lower level players than from the Pros. Most of them just burrow them and let them spawn Locusts, and don't unburrow them at all. If anything, you really should be active and aggressive with them, with proper support, so they don't just outright die if the enemy drops on them/flanks them. Those things are slow. Think of them as infestors that can't burrow move. If you catch a bunch of swarm hosts moving around, they die. If you catch an overlord floating around with swarm hosts, they die. Nydus isn't exactly very good for frequent redeployments, given it costs money to spawn a nydus and those things get sniped if you abandon them.
Yes, same as Siege Tanks. Guess what, Siege Tanks are used with Marine and Marauder/Hellbat support. Swarm Hosts should be too, with Roaches, Lings and Banelings as support units, and later with Infestors and Vipers. As I said, if you are making Swarm Hosts alone, then they got caught alone, you are doing it wrong, and you deserve to lose them.
|
Bisutopia19371 Posts
4-0 stx finally I get some points for the team I chose on my fantasy lineup. I really liked classic as protoss by the way. He is playing excellent!
|
Came back home just to see KT losing all their sets. Dat KTFlash.
What's the standing after KT-STX's match?
|
On April 08 2013 19:49 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 19:24 Arceus wrote:On April 08 2013 19:22 Qikz wrote:On April 08 2013 19:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 08 2013 19:18 Yello wrote:On April 08 2013 19:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:
"Just wait till SH get figured out." Hm, yeah. They are figured out. Out maneuver em with expos and units. Dude wtf? Did you even watch the game? It was all-in vs all-in and Toss got the better all-in this time. How can you actually take this game and make any conclusion whatsoever about the use of swarm hosts? Well, i havent seen good usage of SH so far. Care to link some good games with them? Ret used swarmhosts pretty good at the first IEM of SC2. There's been other people using them well too. They're not a unit that can be figured out in a week or two and I'm glad about that, they've actually got a lot of depth to them. as far as I concern, pros refuse to go SHs in GSTL/GSL/SPL. And when they did, it's pretty much a fuckin joke. The only fairly good usage is a game on DMZ in which terran tried to be as passive as possible (and still won) I am quite convinced that pros aren't using them the way they should, I've seen better usage of Swarm Hosts from some lower level players than from the Pros. Most of them just burrow them and let them spawn Locusts, and don't unburrow them at all. If anything, you really should be active and aggressive with them, with proper support, so they don't just outright die if the enemy drops on them/flanks them.
I have tried swarm hosts a lot vs bio terran and from all I have seen in Progames, swarm host usage comes down to:
you attack somewhere with them, the bioplayer tries to attack the swarm hosts and fortifies a position facing the swarm hosts.
The zerg is forced to protect the hosts with most of his army and the two players stalemate each others armies. Then the Terran just starts to drop everywhere while the main armies checkmate each other - assuming the swarmhosts ever got into a threatening position.
The thing why swarm hosts dont really work vs biomech is - widow mine/tank deal with most of the locusts very fast and most damage gets healed up by medivacs. Then, anytime a spawn is killed the bioplayer can stim in and the zerg player is forced to sacrifice some units as well to protect the hosts or he loses ground by retreating and letting the Terran move forward with mines/tanks. And all of that is only true if you even reach a stable position in the midgame that lets you push out with a bigger amount of units, which is very rare and usually means that you need 3-4bases and mutalisks+speedbanes and double/triple upgrades first.
|
On April 08 2013 20:13 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 19:49 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 08 2013 19:24 Arceus wrote:On April 08 2013 19:22 Qikz wrote:On April 08 2013 19:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 08 2013 19:18 Yello wrote:On April 08 2013 19:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:
"Just wait till SH get figured out." Hm, yeah. They are figured out. Out maneuver em with expos and units. Dude wtf? Did you even watch the game? It was all-in vs all-in and Toss got the better all-in this time. How can you actually take this game and make any conclusion whatsoever about the use of swarm hosts? Well, i havent seen good usage of SH so far. Care to link some good games with them? Ret used swarmhosts pretty good at the first IEM of SC2. There's been other people using them well too. They're not a unit that can be figured out in a week or two and I'm glad about that, they've actually got a lot of depth to them. as far as I concern, pros refuse to go SHs in GSTL/GSL/SPL. And when they did, it's pretty much a fuckin joke. The only fairly good usage is a game on DMZ in which terran tried to be as passive as possible (and still won) I am quite convinced that pros aren't using them the way they should, I've seen better usage of Swarm Hosts from some lower level players than from the Pros. Most of them just burrow them and let them spawn Locusts, and don't unburrow them at all. If anything, you really should be active and aggressive with them, with proper support, so they don't just outright die if the enemy drops on them/flanks them. I have tried swarm hosts a lot vs bio terran and from all I have seen in Progames, swarm host usage comes down to: you attack somewhere with them, the bioplayer tries to attack the swarm hosts and fortifies a position facing the swarm hosts. The zerg is forced to protect the hosts with most of his army and the two players stalemate each others armies. Then the Terran just starts to drop everywhere while the main armies checkmate each other - assuming the swarmhosts ever got into a threatening position. The thing why swarm hosts dont really work vs biomech is - widow mine/tank deal with most of the locusts very fast and most damage gets healed up by medivacs. Then, anytime a spawn is killed the bioplayer can stim in and the zerg player is forced to sacrifice some units as well to protect the hosts or he loses ground by retreating and letting the Terran move forward with mines/tanks. And all of that is only true if you even reach a stable position in the midgame that lets you push out with a bigger amount of units, which is very rare and usually means that you need 3-4bases and mutalisks+speedbanes and double/triple upgrades first.
I guess you didn't watch Blade55555's replay pack from GM Korea ladder? He is always opening with Muta/Ling/Bane into Swarm Hosts, making about 10 of them, and they are working great. Widow Mine and Tanks indeed do kill Locusts, but that is not bad for the Zerg, it is bad for the Terran. Locusts are free, Tanks wasting shots on them, or Widow Mines using rocket on them means less Tanks will shoot down your Lings and Banelings, and same goes for the Widow Mines that will lose their attack for next 40 seconds, which means that you can engage the Terran without worrying that you will lose half of your army in 2 seconds.
Also, Blade is always having at least 10 Mutas to counter drops, if he loses them, he makes them again. From watching his replays, I feel that Swarm Hosts really make your engagements a lot easier. Later in the game you can also spread them to attack different bases while you are constantly attacking Terran army.
All in all, I must say that I am pretty disappointed with Pro's usage of the Swarm Hosts.
|
On April 08 2013 20:28 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 20:13 Big J wrote:On April 08 2013 19:49 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 08 2013 19:24 Arceus wrote:On April 08 2013 19:22 Qikz wrote:On April 08 2013 19:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 08 2013 19:18 Yello wrote:On April 08 2013 19:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:
"Just wait till SH get figured out." Hm, yeah. They are figured out. Out maneuver em with expos and units. Dude wtf? Did you even watch the game? It was all-in vs all-in and Toss got the better all-in this time. How can you actually take this game and make any conclusion whatsoever about the use of swarm hosts? Well, i havent seen good usage of SH so far. Care to link some good games with them? Ret used swarmhosts pretty good at the first IEM of SC2. There's been other people using them well too. They're not a unit that can be figured out in a week or two and I'm glad about that, they've actually got a lot of depth to them. as far as I concern, pros refuse to go SHs in GSTL/GSL/SPL. And when they did, it's pretty much a fuckin joke. The only fairly good usage is a game on DMZ in which terran tried to be as passive as possible (and still won) I am quite convinced that pros aren't using them the way they should, I've seen better usage of Swarm Hosts from some lower level players than from the Pros. Most of them just burrow them and let them spawn Locusts, and don't unburrow them at all. If anything, you really should be active and aggressive with them, with proper support, so they don't just outright die if the enemy drops on them/flanks them. I have tried swarm hosts a lot vs bio terran and from all I have seen in Progames, swarm host usage comes down to: you attack somewhere with them, the bioplayer tries to attack the swarm hosts and fortifies a position facing the swarm hosts. The zerg is forced to protect the hosts with most of his army and the two players stalemate each others armies. Then the Terran just starts to drop everywhere while the main armies checkmate each other - assuming the swarmhosts ever got into a threatening position. The thing why swarm hosts dont really work vs biomech is - widow mine/tank deal with most of the locusts very fast and most damage gets healed up by medivacs. Then, anytime a spawn is killed the bioplayer can stim in and the zerg player is forced to sacrifice some units as well to protect the hosts or he loses ground by retreating and letting the Terran move forward with mines/tanks. And all of that is only true if you even reach a stable position in the midgame that lets you push out with a bigger amount of units, which is very rare and usually means that you need 3-4bases and mutalisks+speedbanes and double/triple upgrades first. I guess you didn't watch Blade55555's replay pack from GM Korea ladder? He is always opening with Muta/Ling/Bane into Swarm Hosts, making about 10 of them, and they are working great. Widow Mine and Tanks indeed do kill Locusts, but that is not bad for the Zerg, it is bad for the Terran. Locusts are free, Tanks wasting shots on them, or Widow Mines using rocket on them means less Tanks will shoot down your Lings and Banelings, and same goes for the Widow Mines that will lose their attack for next 40 seconds, which means that you can engage the Terran without worrying that you will lose half of your army in 2 seconds. Also, Blade is always having at least 10 Mutas to counter drops, if he lose them, he makes them again. From watching his replays, I feel that Swarm Hosts really make your engagements a lot easier. Later in the game you can also spread them to attack different bases while you are constantly attacking Terran army. All in all, I must say that I am pretty disappointed with Pro's usage of the Swarm Hosts.
why is it bad for the Terran? Tank and Mine shots are free as well, mine cooldown is only slightly longer than Host cooldown. Also biohealth is free to a certain extend for the Terran.
I haven't seen those replays and I'm sure that swarmhost play - as well as mine play, hellbat play, viper player, protoss air play, medivac play... - will get massively better than it is right now. Might want to watch those replays. But for what I have seen and experienced myself you basically give the advantage in the hands of the more mobile player when going swarm hosts - which is a tankless Terran with speedmedivacs in TvZ.
|
United Kingdom12043 Posts
why is it bad for the Terran? Tank and Mine shots are free as well, mine cooldown is only slightly longer than Host cooldown. Also biohealth is free to a certain extend for the Terran.
It's bad for the terran because those mines/tanks are not shooting at all the other units :p
|
Yay, nice performance by STX 
|
On April 08 2013 20:37 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 20:28 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 08 2013 20:13 Big J wrote:On April 08 2013 19:49 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 08 2013 19:24 Arceus wrote:On April 08 2013 19:22 Qikz wrote:On April 08 2013 19:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 08 2013 19:18 Yello wrote:On April 08 2013 19:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:
"Just wait till SH get figured out." Hm, yeah. They are figured out. Out maneuver em with expos and units. Dude wtf? Did you even watch the game? It was all-in vs all-in and Toss got the better all-in this time. How can you actually take this game and make any conclusion whatsoever about the use of swarm hosts? Well, i havent seen good usage of SH so far. Care to link some good games with them? Ret used swarmhosts pretty good at the first IEM of SC2. There's been other people using them well too. They're not a unit that can be figured out in a week or two and I'm glad about that, they've actually got a lot of depth to them. as far as I concern, pros refuse to go SHs in GSTL/GSL/SPL. And when they did, it's pretty much a fuckin joke. The only fairly good usage is a game on DMZ in which terran tried to be as passive as possible (and still won) I am quite convinced that pros aren't using them the way they should, I've seen better usage of Swarm Hosts from some lower level players than from the Pros. Most of them just burrow them and let them spawn Locusts, and don't unburrow them at all. If anything, you really should be active and aggressive with them, with proper support, so they don't just outright die if the enemy drops on them/flanks them. I have tried swarm hosts a lot vs bio terran and from all I have seen in Progames, swarm host usage comes down to: you attack somewhere with them, the bioplayer tries to attack the swarm hosts and fortifies a position facing the swarm hosts. The zerg is forced to protect the hosts with most of his army and the two players stalemate each others armies. Then the Terran just starts to drop everywhere while the main armies checkmate each other - assuming the swarmhosts ever got into a threatening position. The thing why swarm hosts dont really work vs biomech is - widow mine/tank deal with most of the locusts very fast and most damage gets healed up by medivacs. Then, anytime a spawn is killed the bioplayer can stim in and the zerg player is forced to sacrifice some units as well to protect the hosts or he loses ground by retreating and letting the Terran move forward with mines/tanks. And all of that is only true if you even reach a stable position in the midgame that lets you push out with a bigger amount of units, which is very rare and usually means that you need 3-4bases and mutalisks+speedbanes and double/triple upgrades first. I guess you didn't watch Blade55555's replay pack from GM Korea ladder? He is always opening with Muta/Ling/Bane into Swarm Hosts, making about 10 of them, and they are working great. Widow Mine and Tanks indeed do kill Locusts, but that is not bad for the Zerg, it is bad for the Terran. Locusts are free, Tanks wasting shots on them, or Widow Mines using rocket on them means less Tanks will shoot down your Lings and Banelings, and same goes for the Widow Mines that will lose their attack for next 40 seconds, which means that you can engage the Terran without worrying that you will lose half of your army in 2 seconds. Also, Blade is always having at least 10 Mutas to counter drops, if he lose them, he makes them again. From watching his replays, I feel that Swarm Hosts really make your engagements a lot easier. Later in the game you can also spread them to attack different bases while you are constantly attacking Terran army. All in all, I must say that I am pretty disappointed with Pro's usage of the Swarm Hosts. why is it bad for the Terran? Tank and Mine shots are free as well, mine cooldown is only slightly longer than Host cooldown. Also biohealth is free to a certain extend for the Terran. I haven't seen those replays and I'm sure that swarmhost play - as well as mine play, hellbat play, viper player, protoss air play, medivac play... - will get massively better than it is right now. Might want to watch those replays. But for what I have seen and experienced myself you basically give the advantage in the hands of the more mobile player when going swarm hosts - which is a tankless Terran with speedmedivacs in TvZ.
That might be true if you are rushing Swarm Hosts, but against Terran, that is never a good thing.
Majority of Terran players today just go for Widow Mines and Bio with Medivacs. Almost no Siege Tanks. If majority of Widow Mines use their payload on the Locusts, your Mutas, Lings and Banelings can do the quick work against enemy units, and we know that Bio can't deal with those units without any kind of splash, or without perfect micro.
I really suggest you to watch them, they are pretty solid. He also included the replays where he lost, so you can see some where he did micro mistakes, or where Terran outplayed him, but his composition definitely seems viable, and he said that more and more pro Zerg players are using that composition.
|
please stop citing random ladder player using SHs well this and that. You actually think 200 players at the prohouses & some dedicated coaches cannot work out a decent SHs build?
So Leenock wrecked some noobs on ladder with that nydus/SH build. The day after he got murdered in GSTL using the same build. think about that. And fyi that build is very much a shenanigan.
So SHs is intended to nullify mines. It works decent on DMZ with very narrow and weird paths (result:loss) and gets completely outmaneuvered on Akilon Wastes (result:loss). Mind you that most maps are bigger than Akilon. Which niche is the SH gonna fill now?
|
On April 08 2013 21:26 Arceus wrote:
please stop citing random ladder player using SHs well this and that. You actually think 200 players at the prohouses & some dedicated coaches cannot work out a decent SHs build?
So Leenock wrecked some noobs on ladder with that nydus/SH build. The day after he got murdered in GSTL using the same build. think about that. And fyi that build is very much a shenanigan.
So SHs is intended to nullify mines. It works decent on DMZ with very narrow and weird paths (result:loss) and gets completely outmaneuvered on Akilon Wastes (result:loss). Mind you that most maps are bigger than Akilon. Which niche is the SH gonna fill now?
No, I am not saying that they cannot make some decent SH build, I am saying that they are not using the unit properly, and they aren't.
I am also not talking about some stupid cheesy rushes with SHs and Nydus, I am talking about going them with your main army as support/siege unit, and successfully being able to transition from them.
You can't really be serious about watching one - two games where Swarm Hosts failed and then suddenly they are awful units? Exactly the opposite can be said about MVP.Monster winning against ST_Hack on Akilon Wastes at HSL, where he won with the Swarm Hosts, but that logic is flawed. You can't say some unit is bad within 1,2,3,5 or 10 matches.
Now, let's take a look at this. All of these are progamers. They are playing this game at least 10 hours a day. Do you think that they would be using this unit at all if it wouldn't work in their practice matches, that they played A LOT more than their tournament matches?
They see the potential in this unit, and definitely see something that you are not, since you don't watch all of their matches.
|
On April 08 2013 21:53 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 21:26 Arceus wrote:
please stop citing random ladder player using SHs well this and that. You actually think 200 players at the prohouses & some dedicated coaches cannot work out a decent SHs build?
So Leenock wrecked some noobs on ladder with that nydus/SH build. The day after he got murdered in GSTL using the same build. think about that. And fyi that build is very much a shenanigan.
So SHs is intended to nullify mines. It works decent on DMZ with very narrow and weird paths (result:loss) and gets completely outmaneuvered on Akilon Wastes (result:loss). Mind you that most maps are bigger than Akilon. Which niche is the SH gonna fill now? No, I am not saying that they cannot make some decent SH build, I am saying that they are not using the unit properly, and they aren't. I am also not talking about some stupid cheesy rushes with SHs and Nydus, I am talking about going them with your main army as support/siege unit, and successfully being able to transition from them. You can't really be serious about watching one - two games where Swarm Hosts failed and then suddenly they are awful units? Exactly the opposite can be said about MVP.Monster winning against ST_Hack on Akilon Wastes at HSL, where he won with the Swarm Hosts, but that logic is flawed. You can't say some unit is bad within 1,2,3,5 or 10 matches. Now, let's take a look at this. All of these are progamers. They are playing this game at least 10 hours a day. Do you think that they would be using this unit at all if it wouldn't work in their practice matches, that they played A LOT more than their tournament matches? They see the potential in this unit, and definitely see something that you are not, since you don't watch all of their matches.
well they might have only looked good against weak opponent in ladder/random leagues and not in professional settings?
Yeah pros almost dont use this unit at all because it wouldnt work lol. You answer that yourself
So all in all, I dont see the potential in this unit. And so far, the usage is very low and the success rate is nil, which sorta back my opinion. (and if you wanna put up counter-argument, use offical matches aka GSL/GSTL/SPL.kthxbye)
|
On April 08 2013 23:25 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 21:53 Ramiz1989 wrote:On April 08 2013 21:26 Arceus wrote:
please stop citing random ladder player using SHs well this and that. You actually think 200 players at the prohouses & some dedicated coaches cannot work out a decent SHs build?
So Leenock wrecked some noobs on ladder with that nydus/SH build. The day after he got murdered in GSTL using the same build. think about that. And fyi that build is very much a shenanigan.
So SHs is intended to nullify mines. It works decent on DMZ with very narrow and weird paths (result:loss) and gets completely outmaneuvered on Akilon Wastes (result:loss). Mind you that most maps are bigger than Akilon. Which niche is the SH gonna fill now? No, I am not saying that they cannot make some decent SH build, I am saying that they are not using the unit properly, and they aren't. I am also not talking about some stupid cheesy rushes with SHs and Nydus, I am talking about going them with your main army as support/siege unit, and successfully being able to transition from them. You can't really be serious about watching one - two games where Swarm Hosts failed and then suddenly they are awful units? Exactly the opposite can be said about MVP.Monster winning against ST_Hack on Akilon Wastes at HSL, where he won with the Swarm Hosts, but that logic is flawed. You can't say some unit is bad within 1,2,3,5 or 10 matches. Now, let's take a look at this. All of these are progamers. They are playing this game at least 10 hours a day. Do you think that they would be using this unit at all if it wouldn't work in their practice matches, that they played A LOT more than their tournament matches? They see the potential in this unit, and definitely see something that you are not, since you don't watch all of their matches. well they might have only looked good against weak opponent in ladder/random leagues and not in professional settings? Yeah pros almost dont use this unit at all because it wouldnt work lol. You answer that yourself So all in all, I dont see the potential in this unit. And so far, the usage is very low and the success rate is nil, which sorta back my opinion. (and if you wanna put up counter-argument, use offical matches aka GSL/GSTL/SPL.kthxbye)
They are practicing with their own teammates, that aren't weak for sure. Hellbats are great units, I still don't see them being used a lot. So, yeah, they suck so much because they aren't used much? Your logic and arguments are flawed, and with your "kthxbye" there is no point in arguing with you, since you are probably some "I know everything" kind of the kid.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES51117 Posts
|
On April 08 2013 20:13 sinistral wrote:
Came back home just to see KT losing all their sets. Dat KTFlash.
What's the standing after KT-STX's match?
Flash didn't even get to play...
>.<
|
On April 08 2013 19:27 NicksonReyes wrote:
8 games. Protoss 7-2(including 2 PvPs).
KT don't need Life. KT needs protoss.
Hey, let's not start that shit man. Zerg ruined Wings, granted, but this game just came out and every race is doing fine atm.
|
On April 09 2013 00:49 waylander_ wrote:Hey, let's not start that shit man.
On April 09 2013 00:49 waylander_ wrote:Zerg ruined Wings
You should have written, "hey, don't start this shit man, it's my job!".
|
I did not see this coming. Well done STX!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
