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The usual: Don't flame casters or players. Don't discuss balance in this or any LR thread. Don't call your fellow posters idiots. Be excited, happy and entertained. |
On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban.
No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition.
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Why don't you start already MLG... gogog!
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At the end of the day a tournament's organizers and the community in general decide what is acceptable. Yesterday they said booing was not OK, so that's the custom you have to get with. Don't like it, don't attend.
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if the game was only about skill and not about the people behind it, we might as well have someone code the best AI possible and it could rape everyone with godlike play. I guess that would be fun to watch.
Personality counts just as much as skill when it comes to enjoying something, sometimes more. The exception is people who watch to learn, but it's a minority and will always be.
It has nothing to do with race/nationality for the most part, it's about being able to relate to the player. No one complains when it's people like MC or Nestea, because there's a history and personality to them. If you get players like lets say Sniper or Symbol, who are better than both, the interest will be a lot less overall because they're just skill and nothing else to relate to, yet.
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I missed life vs polt yesterday, too late for me!
How was it? Do u have link to twitch VOD?
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On March 17 2013 23:21 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:
[quote]
Here is what happened :
There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog.
It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level...
During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers.
The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?).
Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games.
When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped.
Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p
Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban. No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition.
lol I just got a PM from a forum lurker to tell me to stop advocating booing. First of all, I'm not advocating anything. As I already said, I understand the behavior. I didn't say I accept it and NarutO if they paid their ticket of admission and in their culture booing is an acceptable form of showing displeasure then who are you or I to stop them? If they want to make themselves a mark let them because at the end of the day they are the few. They are by no means representative of the entire scene. We're making a big thing out of nothing.
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On March 17 2013 23:29 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:
[quote]
Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban. No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition. lol I just got a PM from a forum lurker to tell me to stop advocating booing. First of all, I'm not advocating anything. As I already said, I understand the behavior. I didn't say I accept it and NarutO if they paid their ticket of admission and in their culture booing is an acceptable form of showing displeasure then who are you or I to stop them? If they want to make themselves a mark let them because at the end of the day they are the few. They are by no means representative of the entire scene. We're making a big thing out of nothing.
Me or you? No one. But the tournament organizers. If its acceptable in your country to spit on the ground and you paid for that ticket, might as well do it there right? It doesn't matter where you are from or what is acceptable for you. Its about what is acceptable in terms of the event you attend. If MLG would make a rule that prevents people from booing and they should as its inacceptable and shouldn't go without punishment, you better not do it or get kicked out. Your argument is completely unreasonable.
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On March 17 2013 22:28 Hider wrote:Someone like Innovation should never be at 2.5%. Apparently your statistics "forgets" that he was at a GSL semifinal not that long ago...
Why do you even do all this work? Who does it help if your average teamliquid guy can do a better job at predicting outcomes.
But I think the main problem is not the small database it self, but probably the technique. I think there are better statistical ways of predicting outcomes (which would take into account that your average kespa terran is pretty good, and that innovation has been in a GSL semifinal).
So until you can come up with numbers that makes sense, I wouldn't reccomend posting these results, because bascially you lose credibility each time these numbers that makes 0 sense comes up. But well, its your time and you decide your self how you spent it.
I think we have been kind enough to treat you with respect so I'll ask that you do the same. We tried to educate you about the limitations of our systems. These are inherent and we have not found any measure as to how circumvent it. TheBB as well as the other people have spent hours putting out the best open DB for SCII ever created. It's bigger than anything done before (TLPD included) and bar Blizzard itself no other organization has this kind of data regarding matches and players. Just for that, the initiative should be encouraged. What makes TL one of the best community to hang around is community support for community-driven initiative.
As for the system and the technique, you are ignorant. You have strictly no idea what you are talking about. So I suggest you either start to educate yourself or you stop talking altogether. The rating system is a modified version of glicko such a system is commonly used for Chess ratings. The prediction model is based on this model and the procdedure used is called Monte-Carlo. This algorithm is the standard in all computational sciences. If you had bothered reading the FAQ, you would have known that in case of a Best-of-5 games, the predicted outcomes become very unreliable if the predicted winrate is above 94% - which is the case here.
Finally making sense is absolutely not the purpose of these predictions. Because making sense suppose that the ratings have a conscience. They do not, they only express the likeliest scenario - and does a very good job at it. Whether or not you choose to accept the predictions as the future is entirely up to you. However there is a key difference between esoteric prophecy and computed predictions : the first one is self-fulfilling, the second is only the expression of a mathematical system.
+ Show Spoiler [Predicted vs. Actual winrate] +
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On March 17 2013 23:32 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:
[quote]
Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket.
[quote]
Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban. No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition. lol I just got a PM from a forum lurker to tell me to stop advocating booing. First of all, I'm not advocating anything. As I already said, I understand the behavior. I didn't say I accept it and NarutO if they paid their ticket of admission and in their culture booing is an acceptable form of showing displeasure then who are you or I to stop them? If they want to make themselves a mark let them because at the end of the day they are the few. They are by no means representative of the entire scene. We're making a big thing out of nothing. Me or you? No one. But the tournament organizers. If its acceptable in your country to spit on the ground and you paid for that ticket, might as well do it there right? It doesn't matter where you are from or what is acceptable for you. Its about what is acceptable in terms of the event you attend. If MLG would make a rule that prevents people from booing and they should as its inacceptable and shouldn't go without punishment, you better not do it or get kicked out. Your argument is completely unreasonable.
Exactly. The event organizers and the community of any sport decide what is acceptable. Yesterday they told the audience to stop booing, so they did.
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On March 17 2013 23:29 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:
[quote]
Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban. No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition. lol I just got a PM from a forum lurker to tell me to stop advocating booing. First of all, I'm not advocating anything. As I already said, I understand the behavior. I didn't say I accept it and NarutO if they paid their ticket of admission and in their culture booing is an acceptable form of showing displeasure then who are you or I to stop them? If they want to make themselves a mark let them because at the end of the day they are the few. They are by no means representative of the entire scene. We're making a big thing out of nothing.
I misunderstood you as well.
I understand that there are "socially acceptable" booing lots of places, and it lots of sports. But I still think, especially in Starcraft, it just doesn't fit in. Most people watch for love of the game. I have no "favorite" team and I want to watch good games, I have my favorites, but I appreciate the most when a great player shows his skill, and I think most people feel the same way. Hence why most hate on the guys booing.
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I remember when Sjow beat Whitera in the First IEM championship that took place IN WHITERAS HOMETOWN. Despite Whitera basicly getting robbed of a win that would have tied up the series because of a disconnect, the people in his homeland, hell even his hometown, cheered when sjow won. not a single person booed, there was a cheerful atmosphere during the entire finals and the following ceremony.
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I can understand why you guys do not like booing but you are making it way too big of a deal, it happened in 1/24 series that have been played so far (that is such a small percentage), if it occurred more I could understand why you guys are making a big deal out of it.
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On March 17 2013 23:38 Kieofire wrote:
I can understand why you guys do not like booing but you are making it way too big of a deal, it happened in 1/24 series that have been played so far (that is such a small percentage), if it occurred more I could understand why you guys are making a big deal out of it.
We've mostly been discussing booing in general, not this one instance.
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I thought the boo-discussion was ridiculous and unneccessary, but watching the game and Day9's sad little "Dude, don't boo Flash, he's amazing." really hit me in the guts.
Goes to show you how professional Day9 is, as you could clearly hear his disappointment.
He shook it off nonetheless and a second later went on with it. What a pro!
I get that whites want other whites to win, but do show some class about it.
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On March 17 2013 23:32 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:
[quote]
Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket.
[quote]
Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban. No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition. lol I just got a PM from a forum lurker to tell me to stop advocating booing. First of all, I'm not advocating anything. As I already said, I understand the behavior. I didn't say I accept it and NarutO if they paid their ticket of admission and in their culture booing is an acceptable form of showing displeasure then who are you or I to stop them? If they want to make themselves a mark let them because at the end of the day they are the few. They are by no means representative of the entire scene. We're making a big thing out of nothing. Me or you? No one. But the tournament organizers. If its acceptable in your country to spit on the ground and you paid for that ticket, might as well do it there right? It doesn't matter where you are from or what is acceptable for you. Its about what is acceptable in terms of the event you attend. If MLG would make a rule that prevents people from booing and they should as its inacceptable and shouldn't go without punishment, you better not do it or get kicked out. Your argument is completely unreasonable.
Well you were the one who brought region into this and you cannot deny the cultural impact from region to region. In either case we agree to disagree. I find you being just as unreasonable and I'll leave it at that. The only thing I get out of this is you don't want to see it come into your vision of the Starcraft world, which is by and far very taboo because we don't see it happening much at all. However, we cannot control everyone's emotional responses. There will always be a few bad apples out of the bunch. Many people just stare at them.
If they're really being a nuance they most certainly will get kicked, but after seeing what happened in this scenario. I say put the phone down because it really wasn't as bad as some of you made it out to be. Sean asked them to stop they stopped.
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On March 17 2013 23:17 AlgeriaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro games. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Edit : If you want more details / opinions from different people, someone made a blog post about it here : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=403402 People need to chill out. Booing is nothing but proof of the skill of the player getting booed. Unless something totally out of line had been done of course, but I don't anyone suspected that here. Besides the players can't hear it while playing.
Don't know about the other people, but I am chill. Someone asked and I told them what happened. It is just something to speak about while waiting in between games. Killing time if you will.
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On March 17 2013 23:40 kafkaesque wrote:
I thought the boo-discussion was ridiculous and unneccessary, but watching the game and Day9's sad little "Dude, don't boo Flash, he's amazing." really hit me in the guts.
Goes to show you how professional Day9 is, as you could clearly hear his disappointment.
I get that whites want other whites to win, but do show some class about it.
Day9 said it pretty well on twitter.
Sean Plott @day9tv
Booing any player, let alone one of the best RTSers of all time, is unwarranted and embarrassing for everyone. Cheering like crazy is good!
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On March 17 2013 23:41 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:32 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:21 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 23:19 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:18 Dibella wrote:On March 17 2013 23:16 Delicious Insanity wrote:On March 17 2013 23:14 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:
[quote]
Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent.
Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it. I feel like your "everywhere else" excludes the entirety of Asia and large parts of Europe, and a wide variety of sports in which you almost certainly would get kicked out for booing. So when AC Milan plays Barcelona and Barcelona fans boo at the Milan players, the fans would get kicked out? Football |= StarCraft. Americans booing a Korean raping a Dutch player makes no sense. Its not like this even was in Holland and the dutch crowed was booing any opponent of Ret. That would make sense, but not booing the best player in RTS history destorying a mediocre Non-American! It does not matter if it makes sense. If some idiots want to boo because they see their fav. player getting destroyed, they should do it. It is dumb, yes, but should not be met with a ban. No they should not. They should stay at home if they can't handle fair competition. lol I just got a PM from a forum lurker to tell me to stop advocating booing. First of all, I'm not advocating anything. As I already said, I understand the behavior. I didn't say I accept it and NarutO if they paid their ticket of admission and in their culture booing is an acceptable form of showing displeasure then who are you or I to stop them? If they want to make themselves a mark let them because at the end of the day they are the few. They are by no means representative of the entire scene. We're making a big thing out of nothing. Me or you? No one. But the tournament organizers. If its acceptable in your country to spit on the ground and you paid for that ticket, might as well do it there right? It doesn't matter where you are from or what is acceptable for you. Its about what is acceptable in terms of the event you attend. If MLG would make a rule that prevents people from booing and they should as its inacceptable and shouldn't go without punishment, you better not do it or get kicked out. Your argument is completely unreasonable. Well you were the one who brought region into this and you cannot deny the cultural impact from region to region. In either case we agree to disagree. I find you being just as unreasonable and I'll leave it at that.
I gave you a clear answer of who decides to what is acceptable and that certainly is community and even organizers / rules. Not your origin. I don't see how that is unreasonable but you can leave it at that.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://static.aligulac.com/predict.png)
