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The usual: Don't flame casters or players. Don't discuss balance in this or any LR thread. Don't call your fellow posters idiots. Be excited, happy and entertained. |
On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p
This makes me sad.
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On March 17 2013 22:42 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:31 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:26 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:09 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:05 bittman wrote:On March 17 2013 21:54 TAMinator wrote:On March 17 2013 21:48 Visas wrote:
pff all koreans again. This game can only revive to its old glory when they start inviting much less koreans for mlg imo. You can watch your second rate foreigner play SC2 on a live stream, most of us want to see the best of the best Define "most of us". I mean, I agree with you. I'd rather watch the best of the best, and its usually koreans. But there's no denying that foreigners bring in the numbers. Big time. So I imagine "most" sc2 viewers at some level feel the same as Visas. Lets see if an actual quarterfinal bracket with bo5 that all could be GSL finals being completely played in one day brings most viewers or a foreigner tournament. I would bet my ass that we will easily beat the numbers of yesterday You say that as if we had plenty of high profile foreigner-only tournaments. The only one was WCS and it's European qualifier set the viewer record. Guess that doesn't take into account that you can watch Starcraft on television in Korea. Doubt its anywhere near a viewer record. Not only that but we've had several events including MLG break 100k. It's not new territory and they'll remark, "but on one stream." Semantics. Some tournaments have also made their way into Swedish TV and looking for number of unique viewers rather than open browser windows is not a matter of semantics. The facts are that when idra shows up in MLG qualifiers almost 10k viewers materializes from thin air and that is an audience that has been laregely alienated by tournament organizers refusal to protect local scenes. This thread is the best example as instead of having a giant EU vs. NA fight with 'surrender monkey' and 'hand-egg' being thrown everywhere all that we have left to spark emotion is balance whining. The 'foreigner underdogs' storyline kept people watching for a very long time but if those results continue it's potential is pretty much spent.
That storyline has hit the abyss and as they continue to watch (as they continue to do so from the stream numbers) because they want to see who wins. As for Greg that's a terrible example. I could never explain his stream numbers to begin with as they've always been good. Maybe people just want to watch him rage or some other crap. I don't really care and what do you know the guy didn't even make into this tournament. He's been irrelevant for a while. Maybe he should do what Geoff did and go into casting. They could certainly use a more analytical caster and Greg fits that role well. Even if he thinks something is broken.
The only alienation is in your head. Eventually you have to come around and accept it like every other person who still watches. In either case the numbers have been around the same for a long time when it comes to majors. This is your audience.
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On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p
Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Are people seriously counting Life out? >.>
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It'll be interesting to see how Flash is going to perform against Protoss and Korean player. Can't wait for Flash vs Parting!
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im totally hyped about the ro8, even thou its korean only, i love watching good plays! and many koreans that are still in are not "faceless" they made a name for themself
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On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally.
Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket.
On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience.
Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification.
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On March 17 2013 22:52 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:42 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:31 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:26 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:09 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:05 bittman wrote:On March 17 2013 21:54 TAMinator wrote:On March 17 2013 21:48 Visas wrote:
pff all koreans again. This game can only revive to its old glory when they start inviting much less koreans for mlg imo. You can watch your second rate foreigner play SC2 on a live stream, most of us want to see the best of the best Define "most of us". I mean, I agree with you. I'd rather watch the best of the best, and its usually koreans. But there's no denying that foreigners bring in the numbers. Big time. So I imagine "most" sc2 viewers at some level feel the same as Visas. Lets see if an actual quarterfinal bracket with bo5 that all could be GSL finals being completely played in one day brings most viewers or a foreigner tournament. I would bet my ass that we will easily beat the numbers of yesterday You say that as if we had plenty of high profile foreigner-only tournaments. The only one was WCS and it's European qualifier set the viewer record. Guess that doesn't take into account that you can watch Starcraft on television in Korea. Doubt its anywhere near a viewer record. Not only that but we've had several events including MLG break 100k. It's not new territory and they'll remark, "but on one stream." Semantics. Some tournaments have also made their way into Swedish TV and looking for number of unique viewers rather than open browser windows is not a matter of semantics. The facts are that when idra shows up in MLG qualifiers almost 10k viewers materializes from thin air and that is an audience that has been laregely alienated by tournament organizers refusal to protect local scenes. This thread is the best example as instead of having a giant EU vs. NA fight with 'surrender monkey' and 'hand-egg' being thrown everywhere all that we have left to spark emotion is balance whining. The 'foreigner underdogs' storyline kept people watching for a very long time but if those results continue it's potential is pretty much spent. That storyline has hit the abyss and as they continue to watch (as they continue to do so from the stream numbers) because they want to see who wins. As for Greg that's a terrible example. I could never explain his stream numbers to begin with as they've always been good. Maybe people just want to watch him rage or some other crap. I don't really care and what do you know the guy didn't even make into this tournament. He's been irrelevant for a while. Maybe he should do what Geoff did and go into casting. They could certainly use a more analytical caster and Greg fits that role well. Even if he thinks something is broken. The only alienation is in your head. Eventually you have to come around and accept it like every other person who still watches. In either case the numbers have been around the same for a long time when it comes to majors. This is your audience.
Why should Greg start casting when he can support himself streaming and marketing EG and their sponsors?
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On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification.
Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent.
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Foreigners always seem more faceless than the koreans for me (with maybe a handful of exceptions). There's so much excellent content coming out of KR that by now you have had the chance to get to know these players, get to know their playstyles and get to remember their great games/achievements. Most of the 'pro' foreigner scene on the other hand is a bunch of guys hanging out on twitch trying to make money off streaming without anything memorable happening. The minigun meme was kinda funny, but its literally all I know about the guy. I remember Feast from being at an IEM once and I think State was at an MLG before but I'm not actually sure.
The dislike for koreans is more about cheering for any random white guy than actual 'fan' support. MLG has been super generous already with 15 (!!!) seeds and not a single win to show for it, as far as I'm concerned they can cut it down to half of that so we can have better games in earlier rounds.
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On March 17 2013 22:53 Zealously wrote:
Are people seriously counting Life out? >.>
I think he is exhausted from yesterday, and Last has dominated three zergs (including SoulKey) to make it to the quarter finals.
It will be a very close and exciting either way, but I think Last will take the win.
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On March 17 2013 22:59 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:52 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:42 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:31 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:26 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:09 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:05 bittman wrote:On March 17 2013 21:54 TAMinator wrote:On March 17 2013 21:48 Visas wrote:
pff all koreans again. This game can only revive to its old glory when they start inviting much less koreans for mlg imo. You can watch your second rate foreigner play SC2 on a live stream, most of us want to see the best of the best Define "most of us". I mean, I agree with you. I'd rather watch the best of the best, and its usually koreans. But there's no denying that foreigners bring in the numbers. Big time. So I imagine "most" sc2 viewers at some level feel the same as Visas. Lets see if an actual quarterfinal bracket with bo5 that all could be GSL finals being completely played in one day brings most viewers or a foreigner tournament. I would bet my ass that we will easily beat the numbers of yesterday You say that as if we had plenty of high profile foreigner-only tournaments. The only one was WCS and it's European qualifier set the viewer record. Guess that doesn't take into account that you can watch Starcraft on television in Korea. Doubt its anywhere near a viewer record. Not only that but we've had several events including MLG break 100k. It's not new territory and they'll remark, "but on one stream." Semantics. Some tournaments have also made their way into Swedish TV and looking for number of unique viewers rather than open browser windows is not a matter of semantics. The facts are that when idra shows up in MLG qualifiers almost 10k viewers materializes from thin air and that is an audience that has been laregely alienated by tournament organizers refusal to protect local scenes. This thread is the best example as instead of having a giant EU vs. NA fight with 'surrender monkey' and 'hand-egg' being thrown everywhere all that we have left to spark emotion is balance whining. The 'foreigner underdogs' storyline kept people watching for a very long time but if those results continue it's potential is pretty much spent. That storyline has hit the abyss and as they continue to watch (as they continue to do so from the stream numbers) because they want to see who wins. As for Greg that's a terrible example. I could never explain his stream numbers to begin with as they've always been good. Maybe people just want to watch him rage or some other crap. I don't really care and what do you know the guy didn't even make into this tournament. He's been irrelevant for a while. Maybe he should do what Geoff did and go into casting. They could certainly use a more analytical caster and Greg fits that role well. Even if he thinks something is broken. The only alienation is in your head. Eventually you have to come around and accept it like every other person who still watches. In either case the numbers have been around the same for a long time when it comes to majors. This is your audience. Why should Greg start casting when he can support himself streaming and marketing EG and their sponsors?
Who said he couldn't do all three? *raises eyebrow*
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Booing is not nice, but it is part of any competition.
I can not believe some people would like to see the boo-ers banned. (As suggested in the thread yesterday.)
There is non stop complaining about SC2 fans not being loud enough and the LOL crowd being way louder. Yesterday there was a loud SC2 crowd and people started complaining....
Who cares there was some booing. The crowd was being corny because of the super long wait. Banning, can not believe it.
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On March 17 2013 22:34 Inzan1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:25 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 17 2013 22:21 Inzan1ty wrote:On March 17 2013 22:14 LighT. wrote:On March 17 2013 22:10 edgeOut wrote:On March 17 2013 21:48 Visas wrote:
pff all koreans again. This game can only revive to its old glory when they start inviting much less koreans for mlg imo. At least foreigners can take one or two maps from Korean, that's better than BW days. I remember taking one map off a korean was considered a huge feat Foreigners have come a long way  thats why some people are waiting for Warcraft 4 foreigners stand a better chance Koreans and chineses were shitting on foreigners in wc3, I don't think the trend will change in wc4 well first of all the scene was smaller compared to sc2, yet it was more exciting to see Deadman vs GoStop or Sweet vs Grubby imo than any foreigner in sc2 against the untouchable tier of players we got now. really hope TL will feature this universe though, coming from wc3 iam one of those who would jump ship immediately once time arrives ^^ anyways lets not get too offtopic 
insomnia's invisible MK fan here
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On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification.
So you say booing is a part of sports and we should boo people we dont like? Heard something like respect for each other? Or at least appreciate that they play the game so damn well that you get entertained when they are playing it? this statement is just wrong booing is not part of sports, it doenst belong into it.
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People booing a player like Flash is just disrespectful and childish.
If Flash refused to shake Ret's hand or something disrespectful, then sure boo all you want. But when he shows up, plays a great TvZ and wins, STFU and sit down.
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On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification.
I think booing is only ever OK when a player does something really disrespectful. I'd say Dragon is KR's "bad boy", only way more fun than Greg.
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On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent.
Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it.
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On March 17 2013 23:02 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 22:59 Giriath wrote:On March 17 2013 22:52 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:42 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:31 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:26 pmp10 wrote:On March 17 2013 22:09 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:05 bittman wrote:On March 17 2013 21:54 TAMinator wrote:
[quote]
You can watch your second rate foreigner play SC2 on a live stream, most of us want to see the best of the best Define "most of us". I mean, I agree with you. I'd rather watch the best of the best, and its usually koreans. But there's no denying that foreigners bring in the numbers. Big time. So I imagine "most" sc2 viewers at some level feel the same as Visas. Lets see if an actual quarterfinal bracket with bo5 that all could be GSL finals being completely played in one day brings most viewers or a foreigner tournament. I would bet my ass that we will easily beat the numbers of yesterday You say that as if we had plenty of high profile foreigner-only tournaments. The only one was WCS and it's European qualifier set the viewer record. Guess that doesn't take into account that you can watch Starcraft on television in Korea. Doubt its anywhere near a viewer record. Not only that but we've had several events including MLG break 100k. It's not new territory and they'll remark, "but on one stream." Semantics. Some tournaments have also made their way into Swedish TV and looking for number of unique viewers rather than open browser windows is not a matter of semantics. The facts are that when idra shows up in MLG qualifiers almost 10k viewers materializes from thin air and that is an audience that has been laregely alienated by tournament organizers refusal to protect local scenes. This thread is the best example as instead of having a giant EU vs. NA fight with 'surrender monkey' and 'hand-egg' being thrown everywhere all that we have left to spark emotion is balance whining. The 'foreigner underdogs' storyline kept people watching for a very long time but if those results continue it's potential is pretty much spent. That storyline has hit the abyss and as they continue to watch (as they continue to do so from the stream numbers) because they want to see who wins. As for Greg that's a terrible example. I could never explain his stream numbers to begin with as they've always been good. Maybe people just want to watch him rage or some other crap. I don't really care and what do you know the guy didn't even make into this tournament. He's been irrelevant for a while. Maybe he should do what Geoff did and go into casting. They could certainly use a more analytical caster and Greg fits that role well. Even if he thinks something is broken. The only alienation is in your head. Eventually you have to come around and accept it like every other person who still watches. In either case the numbers have been around the same for a long time when it comes to majors. This is your audience. Why should Greg start casting when he can support himself streaming and marketing EG and their sponsors? Who said he couldn't do all three? *raises eyebrow*
True, but he would lose time to get flustered and throw games on stream and in tournaments if he started casting. I don't tournament organizers would tolerate him acting out his bad boy image when casting, so he would lose some of that appeal.
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On March 17 2013 23:07 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 23:00 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:58 StarStruck wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 GunSec wrote:
damn @ all of the people who whine about foreigners losing all the time, if you lose against the best then its obvious you have some leaks in your game and is probably bad at something! I realised recently that I have a huge amount of leaks in online poker without me realising it and I really sucked at the game and caused me to lose a lot of money. There is a reason you see the top players final table constantly and winning in almost every session. Foreginer vs Koreans is like "luck" in poker since many people whine about those stuff equally. Indeed. The best practice is in fact playing players who are much better than you. You want to improve, study those replays immensely. There is no better practice than playing these guys and that's the way you ought to view it. You hope and crave those chances in the bracket. On March 17 2013 22:52 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 17 2013 22:43 Bermuda wrote:On March 17 2013 21:55 gamerdude12345 wrote:
Also, I heard that there was booing in the crowd last night. Did they ever get kicked out or did they just stop? Seems super BM to actually boo a player. Here is what happened : There was a significant delay before Flash vs Ret (like really long). So they had various breaks etc. During the downtime, Anna had Suppy for an interview on the stage as he was defeated in the previous round by Ret. He said that he had the utmost respect for Flash, obviously, but that he was cheering for Ret. Because he really liked Ret and felt like he was doing really well recently and could use the support going against Flash. He also encouraged the crowd to root and cheer for Ret who was the last (or one of the last can't remember) foreigner and clearly the underdog. It was actually really nice and respectful from him considering he was just defeated by Ret. But the crowd took it to another level... During the first match, they started cheering for Ret eveytime he did anything, and I mean anything. Creep tumor ? Cheers. Zergling going across the map ? Cheer. Killing a unit ? Crazy, mad cheers. The problem is : they also started booing everytime Flash did anything. And they went mad when he used his medivacs. It felt pretty agressive and out of place. There was several reasons : the huge downtime before the game, Suppy telling them to root for Ret, the medivac's hate... but in the end, it felt really xenophobic and out of place (booing Flash of all people ?). Ret and Flash, on the other hand played really standard, macro game. I don't know if this is my imagination but it felt really respectful : Ret going early hatch, Flash scouting that and going early CC every game, if I remember correctly. Flash outclassed Ret with a solid, nearly perfect macro style. And Ret seems really solid too (imo) despite going 3-0. I really liked the game, and would recommend them if you like no-gimmick, no bullshit, straight up macro games. When second game started, the crowd tried to boo Flash like in game 1 but Day9 told them something along the lines : Don't boo Flash, guys, he's awesome. And it kinda stopped. Afterward, it felt really weird and people tried to rationnalize it by saying that the crowd booed the medivac... but, to me at least, it felt really insulting and out of place. And more than anything, ignorant of who Flash is. Now go watch the games, and make your own opinion :p Boo'ing players. This crowd seriously deserves the shit. Should be banned from the venue. IEM in Germany was always amazing. Cheering for foreigners/players from Germany especially but they never boo'd any Korean. They always gave them respectful applause/cheers when they won. What a terrible audience. Booing is part of the game. I'm surprised we don't see more people booing. In either case I wish more Koreans would play off it but I don't think they know how because they are really not used to it. Look at what Greg did with his bad boy image. Imagine a Korean doing it. Yeah, instant gratification. Booing is NOT part of the game and its not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you? Even in soccer or any other sports, booing is a sign of bad sportsmanship or bad fuckups of a single player. Thats when he gets a boo, not because he has done nothing. Flash played his games and its nothing short of disrespectful. Really you have to be stupid to find it acceptable to not just cheer but also boo/downtalk/shout towards the opponent. Considering you and I have been around these parts long enough to know what goes down. It's never been apart of our gaming scene but look everywhere else and it's perfectly acceptable/normal behavior. That is what I was getting at. People do boo at soccer games in North America as well btw especially if you are a Toronto FC fan lmao. It is far from stupid behavior. It's a release of anxiety and fairly normal everywhere else. Like I said, if I were Flash I would feed off the new behavior he's not used to and play with it.
It's still a show of poor sportsmanship, and it doesn't belong in this gaming scene at all.
Just look at the reddit threads and how most people think the guys who did it are stupid.
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EPT
