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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1SBCW8F.png)
During the MLG Winter Season Showdowns, 56 of the world's best StarCraft II players will compete in Heart of the Swarm. Each player will compete in 1 best-of-5 Showdown Match, with each winner receiving a paid trip to compete in the MLG Winter Championship. Tune in and watch every match in FREE 1080p HD at www.majorleaguegaming.com and on Twitch.TV.
 2013 MLG Winter Championship/ShowdownsWeek 1 Schedule/VODS+ Show Spoiler +Tonight's match:
 Soulkey vs  Last![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/c6cVO1F.png) www.majorleaguegaming.com Results+ Show Spoiler +Recommended Games+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 1?Yes (0) 0% No (0) 0% 0 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 2?Yes (0) 0% No (0) 0% 0 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 3?Yes (0) 0% No (0) 0% 0 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 4?Yes (0) 0% No (0) 0% 0 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 4? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 5?Yes (0) 0% No (0) 0% 0 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs Last Game 5? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Following this match, INnoVation vs TY will be analyzed on Rules of Engagement. Soulkey vs Last will be analyzed following the Rain vs Flying match on Friday, Feb 08 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Akilon Wastes
Bifrost
Cloud Kingdom
Daybreak
Entombed Valley
Korhal City
Newkirk City
Ohana
Planet S
Star Station
Whirlwind
Note: In each Winter Season Showdown match, both Players will veto three Maps. Invite-Only online matches; Winner takes all, Best of five games The 28 winners will receive placement at the Winter Championship in Dallas from March 15-17 where they will compete with Life, Leenock, Flash and Bomber.
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your Country52797 Posts
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Excited to see some Soulkey HotS play ^^
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hopefully some nice bw skills with the blinding cloud
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The thing I like most about tonight's match is that it eats into Soulkey's ability to practice for his tomorrow's match again MKP ^^
+ Show Spoiler +Hopefully the games are in fact live/recent
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On February 08 2013 06:58 Ghanburighan wrote:The thing I like most about tonight's match is that it eats into Soulkey's ability to practice for his tomorrow's match again MKP ^^ + Show Spoiler +Hopefully the games are in fact live/recent
doubt they are live as its 7 am in korea ^^
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Bisutopia19307 Posts
Considering soulkey is the better player and reinvented queens vs mechanical it should be fun to see if he can abuse new zerg versus last.
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3 1-base hellbat builds please
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Is it only me getting lag?
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Force a Z to make units -> play greedy and die to those units. Brilliant play.
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On February 08 2013 07:20 Ghanburighan wrote:
Force a Z to make units -> play greedy and die to those units. Brilliant play.
he also lost like 3 widow mines totally unnecessarily and attacked overseers with his thor... ^_^
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On February 08 2013 07:20 blade55555 wrote:
Is it only me getting lag?
Only 1080p is lagging for me (but that could very well be my internet)
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damn i love reapers harass in early game, thanks blizz for no tech lab required.
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this looks like hots terran vs wol zerg, urghs dont want to play zerg in hots after seeing this
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damn, Terran in HOTS looks so much better.
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On February 08 2013 07:34 Tsubbi wrote:
this looks like hots terran vs wol zerg, urghs dont want to play zerg in hots after seeing this
Zerg doesn't have any new units until lair so of course the early game is going to look the same :D
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and suddenly GG :D
well, well played by Last this time.
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Feels like Terran can contain the zerg hard and play greedy behind it just like pre queen buff
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On February 08 2013 07:35 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 07:34 Tsubbi wrote:
this looks like hots terran vs wol zerg, urghs dont want to play zerg in hots after seeing this Zerg doesn't have any new units until lair so of course the early game is going to look the same :D
well he could research overlord speed and see what the terran gets away with while containing him on 2 base so he could gg earlier and save some time 
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On February 08 2013 07:36 massivez wrote:
Feels like Terran can contain the zerg hard and play greedy behind it just like pre queen buff
Or Zerg can just make a few more units for his army instead of droning so hard and terrible at defending? I mean Soulkey knew there was proxy rax and he defended reaper harass like shit. His roaches came so late as well.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On February 08 2013 07:36 massivez wrote:
Feels like Terran can contain the zerg hard and play greedy behind it just like pre queen buff
He could have just built roaches ages before and just gone to attack.
One mine does not kill all the units in the game.
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when watching this, I feel timetraveled back to 2010 xD
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Terran has more workers than Zerg
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lol blade please tell me zvt is okay in hots..
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"Nice shot from the widow mine" - kills 2 of Last's repairing scvs.
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hahahaha soulkey abusing teh fact that widow mines friendly fire... why in the hell isn#t he moving the widow mine a bit outside of the base.. XD
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LOL! This game is hilarious.
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LOL that widow mine surely has killed lots of SCV.... probably 6 now.
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lol this looks like a custom map for zvt made by avilo
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Guys, Soulkey obviously hasn't played HotS, but Last must be practicing secretly at nights after Proleague!
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On February 08 2013 07:56 Tsubbi wrote:
lol this looks like a custom map for zvt made by avilo
haha
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
Soulkey really has no experience against Hellbats. No-one who's had a lot of practice against hellbats would lose that much to them. It really is the element of surprise that causes the damage to work.
Even a spore to shoot at the medivac would be a good idea.
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On February 08 2013 07:57 Qikz wrote:
Soulkey really has no experience against Hellbats. No-one who's had a lot of practice against hellbats would lose that much to them. It really is the element of surprise that causes the damage to work.
Even a spore to shoot at the medivac would be a good idea.
Or targetting queens.
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Is Zerg the only race that doesn't have these new units that "people just don't know how to deal with"?
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On February 08 2013 07:59 sitromit wrote:
Is Zerg the only race that doesn't have these new units that "people just don't know how to deal with"?
I would say well used swarmhosts and vipers take a while to get to learn how to deal with them. Especially as mech.
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On February 08 2013 07:48 TeeTS wrote:
when watching this, I feel timetraveled back to 2010 xD
I dunno. Feels more like MLG Slayers
err Anaheim 2011 >_>
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On February 08 2013 08:00 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 07:59 sitromit wrote:
Is Zerg the only race that doesn't have these new units that "people just don't know how to deal with"? I would say well used swarmhosts and vipers take a while to get to learn how to deal with them. Especially as mech.
Haven't seen swarmhosts in ages, aren't they agreed on to be fairly bad? Or to say the least they're not used very often. Vipers on the other hand seem very very strong, but i've also seen a thread on the HotS forum where zergs were complaining. I don't have HotS myself though.
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On February 08 2013 08:01 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:00 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 07:59 sitromit wrote:
Is Zerg the only race that doesn't have these new units that "people just don't know how to deal with"? I would say well used swarmhosts and vipers take a while to get to learn how to deal with them. Especially as mech. Haven't seen swarmhosts in ages, aren't they agreed on to be fairly bad? Or to say the least they're not used very often. Vipers on the other hand seem very very strong, but i've also seen a thread on the HotS forum where zergs were complaining. I don't have HotS myself though.
Swarmhosts are actually pretty good. Most zergs don't mess with them and think they suck, but their actually powerful just requires a lot of learning how to use them properly. People have the misconception of just the zerg having to burrow and that's it. There is a lot more to that unit then that to make it used effectively.
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He has free siege mode, LOL. What Roaches?
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wtf did soulkey just do with his drones?
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Soulkey will have nightmares about hellbat drops ^^
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hellbats seem to be pretty good :x
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The hellbats are on fire!
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We know from his GSL games that Soulkey just has bad multitasking and doesn't know how to deal with drops. Clearly that's why he takes so much damage.
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HotS nova cup is also TvZ, very funny Turuk is going mass widow mines :D
At least earlier he was doing it. ^^
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ok that hellbat harass is asking for a nerf
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this is tvz in hots atm and 1 month to release? lololol
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Soulkey lost no way to win it from now.
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Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game.
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Pretty IdrA gg's to be honest... But yesterday's more hellbatty session was better. Soulkey just didn't know what to do.
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On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game.
I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change.
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oh boy.... Hellbats will need to be nerfed as do reapers... and then we're back to WoL Terran. yay!
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On February 08 2013 08:10 archonOOid wrote:
The hellbats are on fire!
some crisp gg timing by Soulkey
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On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change.
Or you build more anti-air than 1 spore... Without the medivac the hellbats just die and never catch up to drones.
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On February 08 2013 08:12 Tsubbi wrote:
this is tvz in hots atm and 1 month to release? lololol
To be fair Korean terrans also made WoL TvX look very balanced while without Korea anyone would've thought Blizzard are totally incompetent at balancing.
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On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change.
Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:14 TeeTS wrote:
oh boy.... Hellbats will need to be nerfed as do reapers... and then we're back to WoL Terran. yay!
Hellbats won't be super nerfed. They're badly needed against toss and Blizzard knows this which is why they made them strong 
Just remove the bio tag from the hellbat so they can't be healed and make it so they either take double space in hellbat form or can't be loaded as hellbat.
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On February 08 2013 08:14 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Or you build more anti-air than 1 spore... Without the medivac the hellbats just die and never catch up to drones.
10 spores around drone line can certainly do the job. ofc you have no drones left to be burned after they all turned into spores.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
give it a bit to get figured out
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On February 08 2013 08:15 Avicularia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem.
Blizzard doesnt want to do stuff like this and confuse players new to the game etc.
No way they will make it so you cant pickup a hellbat, but you can lift a thor....
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Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming.
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Hellbats drop is a great tool to distinguish Zerg players with good micro from terrible ones.
Soulkey looked like a BW Zerg noob discovering vulture mines.
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On February 08 2013 08:18 Dotq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:15 Avicularia wrote:On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem. Blizzard doesnt want to do stuff like this and confuse players new to the game etc. No way they will make it so you cant pickup a hellbat, but you can lift a thor....
Haha, or make it so only 2 hellbats can be picked up instead of 4.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:16 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:14 TeeTS wrote:
oh boy.... Hellbats will need to be nerfed as do reapers... and then we're back to WoL Terran. yay! Hellbats won't be super nerfed. They're badly needed against toss and Blizzard knows this which is why they made them strong Just remove the bio tag from the hellbat so they can't be healed and make it so they either take double space in hellbat form or can't be loaded as hellbat.
I don't think they need to remove the healing. It's the most minor of all the elements of the Hellbat drop - and it is really useful, especially in PvT. I think the not being able to load Hellbats is the only good solution. Otherwise you end up nerfing medivac speed to being a tech lab upgrade, and that just sucks. And still means the Hellbat drop is just as strong, so we would still see the same effect of people only dropping Hellbats because every other kind of drop is just worse.
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I didn't play HotS yet, but this looked very hard to defend tbh. A well microed reaper hits so early that zerg automatically loses 3-4 drones. Normally you need to 11-11 to get this done. and hellbat drops, I don't know, looks like too much dmg to too many units with too much HP for too low cost for me. Remember we're talking about a 100mineral unit with an insanely fast building speed. In comparison to that all other Terran units suck ass.
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On February 08 2013 08:15 Avicularia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change. Yea, one easy change: only helions can be put inside the medivac, and it will fix this problem.
or hellbat just takes twice more space ie only 2 per medievac.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote:
Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming.
You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk?
I'm replying with this due to your "all game/every game" comment. I'm pretty sure anti air deals with drops pretty effectively. This early in the game maybe you have a point, but I still put it down to zergs not knowing how to defend that early on with drops as they kind of stopped happening that early in WoL a very, very, very long time ago.
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On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote:
Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk?
All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet.
Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play.
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funny thing people were complaining that zerg got all the best stuff in hots and we didnt see any. Yet terran got some huge buffs.
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On February 08 2013 08:30 Cheerio wrote:
funny thing people were complaining that zerg got all the best stuff in hots and we didnt see any. Yet terran got some huge buffs.
Terrans and protoss got more early game options, meanwhile zergs received burrow and soon ovie speed \o/ go figure
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On February 08 2013 08:27 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote:
Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk? All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet. Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play.
I cannot understand how people complain about this. We are talking about tier 3 harassment (actually, tier 3 on both the starport and armory tech paths) that occurs after the 10 minute mark. It's not implausible to build defences.
Furthermore, drop play is great. Some of the best games in SC2 have involved drop play. Recall MMA v DRG. That series was brilliant because of MMAs drop play. What about Innovation v Taeja this morning? It was Innovations aggressive stances, also utilizing dropships, that led the casting archon to say "The best game of TvT I have ever casted". Now you want less drop play (to the extent that people suggest hellbats shouldn't fit in medivacs). What's the alternative, we have each side compose a deathball and have at it?
We had six months of PvZ, I say enough is enough.
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On February 08 2013 08:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Hellbats shouldn't deal that much damage early game, blizzard should nerf them and re-add the blue flame upgrade so they can be good for late game. I think it's more the speed medivac that makes the hellbat drops so strong. Even though he pulled drones you'll notice the medivac just caught up to them and dropped the hellbats on top of that. I think either hellbats can't be put in a medivac in hellbat form or that speed upgrade needs a change.
It's both! I would also add I think medivac should only be able to hold 2 hellbats or 4 hellions.. that might would help some..
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On February 08 2013 08:33 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:30 Cheerio wrote:
funny thing people were complaining that zerg got all the best stuff in hots and we didnt see any. Yet terran got some huge buffs. Terrans and protoss got more early game options, meanwhile zergs received burrow and soon ovie speed \o/ go figure
Overlord speed will solve everything. If Soulkey had spent 100/100 and got fast Overlords, he could have just gged without wasting everyone's time when he saw the Hellbats being built.
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On February 08 2013 08:36 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:27 playa wrote:On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote:
Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk? All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet. Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play. I cannot understand how people complain about this. We are talking about tier 3 harassment (actually, tier 3 on both the starport and armory tech paths) that occurs after the 10 minute mark. It's not implausible to build defences. Furthermore, drop play is great. Some of the best games in SC2 have involved drop play. Recall MMA v DRG. That series was brilliant because of MMAs drop play. What about Innovation v Taeja this morning? It was Innovations aggressive stances, also utilizing dropships, that led the casting archon to say "The best game of TvT I have ever casted". Now you want less drop play (to the extent that people suggest hellbats shouldn't fit in medivacs). What's the alternative, we have each side compose a deathball and have at it? We had six months of PvZ, I say enough is enough.
I like SC 2, but the biggest negative for me by far, is simply the difference in drop play between the games. Some of the most exciting moments in BW was the interplay between scourges and dropships/shuttles. There's just not much thought or risk anymore. I don't play zerg, and when I have a shuttle flying around without a care in the world, just knowing I'm going to take down the greater spire unless they have a million spines around it, I think it's silly.
Is it too much to ask for me to face contested drops every now and then? Would that be such a horrible thing? I'm still trying to figure out why the shuttle needs a speed upgrade if nothing is going to stop it, unless they opened mutas.
If you can watch BW and SC 2 yet think SC 2 has done a better job of creating excitement and strategy through drops, then kudos to you. I wish I could. Maybe I can try watching SC 2 with a blindfold on, and just listen to the excitement coming from people like you.
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watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On February 08 2013 08:59 Cheerio wrote:
watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA.
You have spores and queens which together are arguably the best anti air that early in the game. There's literally no reason why you can't defend the hellbat drops.
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On February 08 2013 08:59 Cheerio wrote:
watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA.
You just need to tech to fast Infestors and Neural Parasite a Widow Mine.
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On February 08 2013 08:51 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:36 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 08 2013 08:27 playa wrote:On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote:
Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk? All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet. Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play. I cannot understand how people complain about this. We are talking about tier 3 harassment (actually, tier 3 on both the starport and armory tech paths) that occurs after the 10 minute mark. It's not implausible to build defences. Furthermore, drop play is great. Some of the best games in SC2 have involved drop play. Recall MMA v DRG. That series was brilliant because of MMAs drop play. What about Innovation v Taeja this morning? It was Innovations aggressive stances, also utilizing dropships, that led the casting archon to say "The best game of TvT I have ever casted". Now you want less drop play (to the extent that people suggest hellbats shouldn't fit in medivacs). What's the alternative, we have each side compose a deathball and have at it? We had six months of PvZ, I say enough is enough. I like SC 2, but the biggest negative for me by far, is simply the difference in drop play between the games. Some of the most exciting moments in BW was the interplay between scourges and dropships/shuttles. There's just not much thought or risk anymore. I don't play zerg, and when I have a shuttle flying around without a care in the world, just knowing I'm going to take down the greater spire unless they have a million spines around it, I think it's silly. Is it too much to ask for me to face contested drops every now and then? Would that be such a horrible thing? I'm still trying to figure out why the shuttle needs a speed upgrade if nothing is going to stop it, unless they opened mutas. If you can watch BW and SC 2 yet think SC 2 has done a better job of creating excitement and strategy through drops, then kudos to you. I wish I could. Maybe I can try watching SC 2 with a blindfold on, and just listen to the excitement coming from people like you.
People like me, eh... That will surely win me over.
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On February 08 2013 09:02 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:59 Cheerio wrote:
watching Rules of Engagement. So axslav is telling that the only way to effectively handle the hellbat drop is to prevent them being dropped in the mineral because after that the drop is already successful. There are some really weird ways of doing that as a terran but zerg is pretty much screwed because well... no good AA. You have spores and queens which together are arguably the best anti air that early in the game. There's literally no reason why you can't defend the hellbat drops.
just to be clear. Are you suggesting to put spores on every side of every mineral line on every zerg base? And 1 spore from one side will not be enough because damn those things are fast.
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On February 08 2013 08:36 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:27 playa wrote:On February 08 2013 08:22 Qikz wrote:On February 08 2013 08:18 playa wrote:
Every SC 2 game I watch makes me appreciate the scourge even more. I've never played zerg and never will, yet I want to thank who ever made the scourge. These games are a joke, watching dropships and shuttles just do w/e they want, all game, every game, 24/7. It's cringe worthy.
Can I please just get a unit that can snipe medivacs; I don't care if it's pre lair/hive or w/e. I just want to be able to watch games without face palming. You mean like a hydralisk, corrupter or mutalisk? All of those units, minus the corrupter, were in BW. No one was opening mutas or hydras to stop drops. Dropships didn't have a speed boost ability to make them the fastest thing in the game, either. Apparently corrupters aren't very good at using in the scourge role, be it price or w/e, so all I see is every game turning into a dropship/shuttle show. There's no risk to it. No real thinking required. Nothing. Just watch the show. It's amazing... Give me something. Make the harass actually require some thought. For instance, in BW, if you were a good player and you knew you were playing a good player, you would spend some of your vessel energy to D matrix your dropships. But, even then, that wasn't a sure bet. Now... it's a freaking joke. Child's play. I cannot understand how people complain about this. We are talking about tier 3 harassment (actually, tier 3 on both the starport and armory tech paths) that occurs after the 10 minute mark. It's not implausible to build defences. Furthermore, drop play is great. Some of the best games in SC2 have involved drop play. Recall MMA v DRG. That series was brilliant because of MMAs drop play. What about Innovation v Taeja this morning? It was Innovations aggressive stances, also utilizing dropships, that led the casting archon to say "The best game of TvT I have ever casted". Now you want less drop play (to the extent that people suggest hellbats shouldn't fit in medivacs). What's the alternative, we have each side compose a deathball and have at it? We had six months of PvZ, I say enough is enough.
Hellbat drop is only slightly later than usual hellion drop because you dont need armory right away. You make hellions, add starport than armory and when the dropship is nearing the enemy base you unload, transform and go inside. That is like 10 seconds later. And usual fast hellion drop timing is what? 6:30?
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The funny thing is, if you watched the series yesterday. Hellbat drops are just as hard to deal with (maybe even more so) in TvT. Kind of weird that they nerfed hellions in WoL due to TvT and they bring back a better version of it in HoTS.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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On February 08 2013 08:11 sitromit wrote:
We know from his GSL games that Soulkey just has bad multitasking and doesn't know how to deal with drops. Clearly that's why he takes so much damage.
Uhh....no.
SK isn't blazing fast but his multitasking is plenty solid. You don't become one of the worlds best (BW) ZvTers without having very competant multitask.
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United States15275 Posts
On February 08 2013 11:34 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:11 sitromit wrote:
We know from his GSL games that Soulkey just has bad multitasking and doesn't know how to deal with drops. Clearly that's why he takes so much damage. Uhh....no. SK isn't blazing fast but his multitasking is plenty solid. You don't become one of the worlds best (BW) ZvTers without having very competant multitask.
That was sarcasm.
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I feel like these matches don't reflect the true players skill cause HOTS is sooo broken atm.
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On February 08 2013 11:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 11:34 L_Master wrote:On February 08 2013 08:11 sitromit wrote:
We know from his GSL games that Soulkey just has bad multitasking and doesn't know how to deal with drops. Clearly that's why he takes so much damage. Uhh....no. SK isn't blazing fast but his multitasking is plenty solid. You don't become one of the worlds best (BW) ZvTers without having very competant multitask. That was sarcasm.
Was it my Neural Parasite Widow Mine to defend against Hellbats post that gave it away? :p I still think that has potential.
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United States15275 Posts
On February 08 2013 11:39 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 11:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:On February 08 2013 11:34 L_Master wrote:On February 08 2013 08:11 sitromit wrote:
We know from his GSL games that Soulkey just has bad multitasking and doesn't know how to deal with drops. Clearly that's why he takes so much damage. Uhh....no. SK isn't blazing fast but his multitasking is plenty solid. You don't become one of the worlds best (BW) ZvTers without having very competant multitask. That was sarcasm. Was it my Neural Parasite Widow Mine to defend against Hellbats post that gave it away? :p I still think that has potential.
Hey, that's a legit strategy!
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On February 08 2013 11:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 11:34 L_Master wrote:On February 08 2013 08:11 sitromit wrote:
We know from his GSL games that Soulkey just has bad multitasking and doesn't know how to deal with drops. Clearly that's why he takes so much damage. Uhh....no. SK isn't blazing fast but his multitasking is plenty solid. You don't become one of the worlds best (BW) ZvTers without having very competant multitask. That was sarcasm.
Apparently I'm #1 certified Romanian.
Carry on,
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This is the first HotS match ive seen. Hellbats sure look strong As i said that the stream died:S
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On February 08 2013 11:38 HeeroFX wrote:
I feel like these matches don't reflect the true players skill cause HOTS is sooo broken atm.
for you perhaps, i find it more balanced then wol
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EPT
Last owned 
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