STX is a shaky team. They have talent but are inconsistent. Jangbi and Roro have to come up big and carry the team for KHAN to win as I don't see KHAN winning a sniper duel with STX.
I got mostly STX on my Fantasy Proleague team (and I'm rooting for Bogus here and in the next GSL too) but I have to root for Khan to win. Poor Samsung Khan.
My current monitor right now has a huge (well noticeable) "SAMSUNG" printed on it. Don't worry, if you guys lose... I am still using your monitors. I am using Samsung monitors for you Jangbi and Stork! (Well, actually... but I'm still rooting for you !)
only like 3 people in the audience? I'm not gonna bring up sc2 is dying or stupid shit like that because I don't believe it in the slightest. What I really wonder is, if the GOM studio can fill up Sc2 obviously has some fans in Korea... how come none of them show up for Pro league? Is the studio like really far out from the main area or what? Pro league games in general have been pretty damn good and at least comparably to Code A on the most part imo.
On January 12 2013 12:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote: only like 3 people in the audience? I'm not gonna bring up sc2 is dying or stupid shit like that because I don't believe it in the slightest. What I really wonder is, if the GOM studio can fill up Sc2 obviously has some fans in Korea... how come none of them show up for Pro league? Is the studio like really far out from the main area or what? Pro league games in general have been pretty damn good and at least comparably to Code A on the most part imo.
I didnt follow BW so I don't know for sure but according to the casters in an earlier broadcast STX was talking about how they have hardly any fans. I don't know if Samsung is a less popular team though. I feel like with Jangbi and Stork (aka players even I knew about without following bw) they would at least have a decent following.
On January 12 2013 12:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote: only like 3 people in the audience? I'm not gonna bring up sc2 is dying or stupid shit like that because I don't believe it in the slightest. What I really wonder is, if the GOM studio can fill up Sc2 obviously has some fans in Korea... how come none of them show up for Pro league? Is the studio like really far out from the main area or what? Pro league games in general have been pretty damn good and at least comparably to Code A on the most part imo.
I didnt follow BW so I don't know for sure but according to the casters in an earlier broadcast STX was talking about how they have hardly any fans. I don't know if Samsung is a less popular team though. I feel like with Jangbi and Stork (aka players even I knew about without following bw) they would at least have a decent following.
Khan and STX def not extremely popular teams by any means. but if my foggy memory of watching BW pro league they could bring in enough people to at least fill up the first two rows of seats.
I'm not trying to compare Sc2 to BW times either. Just curious as to why People are willing to go to GOM studio but not to Pro league matches? Just seems odd to me is all...
On January 12 2013 12:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote: only like 3 people in the audience? I'm not gonna bring up sc2 is dying or stupid shit like that because I don't believe it in the slightest. What I really wonder is, if the GOM studio can fill up Sc2 obviously has some fans in Korea... how come none of them show up for Pro league? Is the studio like really far out from the main area or what? Pro league games in general have been pretty damn good and at least comparably to Code A on the most part imo.
Students are likely busy with their studies on a Saturday, and adults are busy working. Plus, neither STX or Khan aren't the big hitters of PL.
On January 12 2013 12:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote: only like 3 people in the audience? I'm not gonna bring up sc2 is dying or stupid shit like that because I don't believe it in the slightest. What I really wonder is, if the GOM studio can fill up Sc2 obviously has some fans in Korea... how come none of them show up for Pro league? Is the studio like really far out from the main area or what? Pro league games in general have been pretty damn good and at least comparably to Code A on the most part imo.
Students are likely busy with their studies on a Saturday, and adults are busy working. Plus, neither STX or Khan aren't the big hitters of PL.
Very true I wasn't really accounting for the time and day in Korea right now
Lol I just thought of an idea that since the koreans don't want to be caught on camera so badly, they should hold up a sign that has cuss words in korean.
Edit - I picked Idra and his relatively unknown game because I didn't want to make fun of other players >.>. (Also Idra won that game anyway, so yeah.)
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul R2 Game 1: 0-0 Stork vs Last Map: Neo Planet S
0:00 Stork spawns in the top right Last spawns in the bottom left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 double gas for Stork CC first for Last on the low ground probe scout from Stork sees the CC first rax for Last at the top of his main ramp Stork pulls 11 of his probes Stork starts a zealot
3:00 2nd rax for Last makes a full wall off probes start killing the building scv of the CC Last pulls a bunch of scvs down to the natural scv vs probe battle in the natural
4:00 Stork is winning the fight with better probe micro Last is able to finish his natural CC zealot arrives in the natural of Last first marine is out for Last stork only has 3 more probes left on the offensive Last moves his low ground CC back into his main the zealot is walled out of the main and Last is repairing the wall
5:00 Stork is ahead 13 workers to 8 after Last kills off the rest of the probes in his main Stork loses his zealot Cybernetics core on the way for Stork another zealot is on the way for Stork 3 marines are on the way across the map
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
On January 12 2013 12:25 Goldfish wrote: Uggg, Stork obviously didn't play the Starcraft Master mod. 3 marines vs 1 zealot? Bad idea.
it was actually smart. Charging out and making him micro the marines around isntead of letting them charge up the ramp bought him time to get the stalker out and saved his probes.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul R2 Game 1: 0-0 Stork vs Last Map: Neo Planet S
0:00 Stork spawns in the top right Last spawns in the bottom left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 double gas for Stork CC first for Last on the low ground probe scout from Stork sees the CC first rax for Last at the top of his main ramp Stork pulls 11 of his probes Stork starts a zealot
3:00 2nd rax for Last makes a full wall off probes start killing the building scv of the CC Last pulls a bunch of scvs down to the natural scv vs probe battle in the natural
4:00 Stork is winning the fight with better probe micro Last is able to finish his natural CC zealot arrives in the natural of Last first marine is out for Last stork only has 3 more probes left on the offensive Last moves his low ground CC back into his main the zealot is walled out of the main and Last is repairing the wall
5:00 Stork is ahead 13 workers to 8 after Last kills off the rest of the probes in his main Stork loses his zealot Cybernetics core on the way for Stork another zealot is on the way for Stork 3 marines are on the way across the map
6:00 Marines arrive at the base of Stork the marines start kiting the zealot stalker is on the way for Stork zealot retreats back into the main and the stalker comes out the marines try to target down probes before they die Stork is able to clean up the marines and is still 7 workers ahead
7:00 both orbitals are done for Last at this point Nexus started for Stork Bunker in the natural for Last stalker from stork pokes at the natural but he's deflected by the bunker Last lands his natural OC
8:00 double gas for Last 2 more rax for Last Robo for stork 2nd gateway for Stork 2nd bunker started for Last in his natural stalker forces a cancel on the second bunker
9:00 Last starts a second bunker further back but Stork still picks off the building scv and escapes with his stalker stim research started for Last 3rd gateway for Stork observer for Stork Marauder production started for Last forge for Stork missile turret in the natural for Last to protect against possible DTs
10:00 factory started for Last 3rd gas for Last Robotics Bay for Stork observer scouts the main of Last and sees the factory still building Stork goes up to 4 gas +1 attack started for Last +1 armor started for Stork
On January 12 2013 12:26 xN.07)MaK wrote: Not sure if Stork is ahead, even if he ended up with more probes. Mules and double orbital more than makes up for it IMO.
At best it is even. But Stork was not really far behind.
@The replies - My bad. My excuse is I don't have dual monitors, so I just keep switching back from LR and Stream (didn't see that he was buying time with his lone zealot) >.>.
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
And is the goal to kill the SCV and delay or force the Terran to cancel the CC?
On January 12 2013 12:27 Kerwin wrote: Does anyone else feel like ProLeague is kinda a joke? Feels like GSL Open Season 1...
Horrible strat by Stork and terrible reaction by Last.
How was it a horrible strat from Stork? It was a great read to try and punish the greedy CC. Last reacted about as well as anyone could be expected to in that situation. The only joke here is your terrible analogy of open season 1
On January 12 2013 12:24 Dodgin wrote: Banned from GSL
Can someone tell me what this is referencing?
Naniwa played a game meaning nothing either to him or Nestea. Ended up him 7 Probe Rushing with his hands of the keyboard.. The GSL-production wasnt very pleased and ge hot banned for some seasons..
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
And is the goal to kill the SCV and delay or force the Terran to cancel the CC?
It is mainly to delay the CC. Don't think you can force cancel on the CC with just 4 probes before the marine come out.
On January 12 2013 12:27 Kerwin wrote: Does anyone else feel like ProLeague is kinda a joke? Feels like GSL Open Season 1...
Horrible strat by Stork and terrible reaction by Last.
How was it a horrible strat from Stork? It was a great read to try and punish the greedy CC. Last reacted about as well as anyone could be expected to in that situation. The only joke here is your terrible analogy of open season 1
IMO Stork is making a gambit... that if played against a reasonably good player, can at best have you end up even, and at worst have you far behind.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul R2 Game 1: 0-0 Stork vs Last Map: Neo Planet S
0:00 Stork spawns in the top right Last spawns in the bottom left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 double gas for Stork CC first for Last on the low ground probe scout from Stork sees the CC first rax for Last at the top of his main ramp Stork pulls 11 of his probes Stork starts a zealot
3:00 2nd rax for Last makes a full wall off probes start killing the building scv of the CC Last pulls a bunch of scvs down to the natural scv vs probe battle in the natural
4:00 Stork is winning the fight with better probe micro Last is able to finish his natural CC zealot arrives in the natural of Last first marine is out for Last stork only has 3 more probes left on the offensive Last moves his low ground CC back into his main the zealot is walled out of the main and Last is repairing the wall
5:00 Stork is ahead 13 workers to 8 after Last kills off the rest of the probes in his main Stork loses his zealot Cybernetics core on the way for Stork another zealot is on the way for Stork 3 marines are on the way across the map
6:00 Marines arrive at the base of Stork the marines start kiting the zealot stalker is on the way for Stork zealot retreats back into the main and the stalker comes out the marines try to target down probes before they die Stork is able to clean up the marines and is still 7 workers ahead
7:00 both orbitals are done for Last at this point Nexus started for Stork Bunker in the natural for Last stalker from stork pokes at the natural but he's deflected by the bunker Last lands his natural OC
8:00 double gas for Last 2 more rax for Last Robo for stork 2nd gateway for Stork 2nd bunker started for Last in his natural stalker forces a cancel on the second bunker
9:00 Last starts a second bunker further back but Stork still picks off the building scv and escapes with his stalker stim research started for Last 3rd gateway for Stork observer for Stork Marauder production started for Last forge for Stork missile turret in the natural for Last to protect against possible DTs
10:00 factory started for Last 3rd gas for Last Robotics Bay for Stork observer scouts the main of Last and sees the factory still building Stork goes up to 4 gas +1 attack started for Last +1 armor started for Stork
11:00 starport started for Last colossus production started for Stork Stork is still ahead by 5 workers and 10 supply
12:00 Combat shields started for Last double medivac production started for Last Extended thermal lance research on the way for Stork Last is moving across the map with a bio force but the first Colossus is out 2nd colossus started for Stork concussive shells started for Last 2 more gates and a twilight council for Stork
13:00 3rd base started for Last zealot scout of Stork scouts the building 3rd CC and kills the scv Last is moving across the map again with his first 2 medivacs but 2 colossi are out now +1 attack started for Stork +1 armor started for Last blink started for Stork 2 more rax for Last another gateway for Stork
14:00 Last is trying to deny a 3rd base of Stork double drop in the main of Stork colossi walk back to the main and force a lift on the drop 2nd forge for stork armory and 2nd ebay started for Last 2nd starport started for Last 3rd colossus on the way for Stork
15:00 Charge research started for Stork +2 armor started for Stork double viking production started for Last 3rd base started for Stork at the 3 o'clock base
On January 12 2013 12:24 Dodgin wrote: Banned from GSL
Can someone tell me what this is referencing?
Naniwa played a game meaning nothing either to him or Nestea. Ended up him 7 Probe Rushing with his hands of the keyboard.. The GSL-production wasnt very pleased and ge hot banned for some seasons..
To clarify more on the situation though, I don't think it was the GOM's sole doing.
Netizen reaction (and reaction from a lot of Koreans in general) were negative (compared to foreigners which were much more neutral), so GOM may have gone with the pressure of doing something towards Naniwa due to the reaction from Koreans.
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
And is the goal to kill the SCV and delay or force the Terran to cancel the CC?
It is mainly to delay the CC. Don't think you can force cancel on the CC with just 4 probes before the marine come out.
Yeah that makes sense, thanks for explaining. So cross position (nearly) all-probe pull vs. CC first is not so orthodox. That helps clarify my confusion greatly.
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
And is the goal to kill the SCV and delay or force the Terran to cancel the CC?
It is mainly to delay the CC. Don't think you can force cancel on the CC with just 4 probes before the marine come out.
Yeah, just delay the CC until your zealot arrives. You will get a bunch of scv kills along with it.
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
And is the goal to kill the SCV and delay or force the Terran to cancel the CC?
It is mainly to delay the CC. Don't think you can force cancel on the CC with just 4 probes before the marine come out.
Yeah that makes sense, thanks for explaining. So cross position (nearly) all-probe pull vs. CC first is not so orthodox. That helps clarify my confusion greatly.
Nope. Probably the first time in a televised/broadcasted pro game.
On January 12 2013 12:25 sparklyresidue wrote: Isn't that a thing that people do? I think it's kinda rare, but I've definitely heard of people doing it vs. CC first.
Standard is pulling 4 probes if the positions are close enough. Never seen anyone go with that many o_o
And is the goal to kill the SCV and delay or force the Terran to cancel the CC?
It is mainly to delay the CC. Don't think you can force cancel on the CC with just 4 probes before the marine come out.
Yeah that makes sense, thanks for explaining. So cross position (nearly) all-probe pull vs. CC first is not so orthodox. That helps clarify my confusion greatly.
It's usually used as a response to command center first on the low ground, you can force a cancel or at least significantly delay the production of the CC with good micro. there won't be any marine out in time if you do it right.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul R2 Game 1: 0-0 Stork vs Last Map: Neo Planet S
0:00 Stork spawns in the top right Last spawns in the bottom left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 double gas for Stork CC first for Last on the low ground probe scout from Stork sees the CC first rax for Last at the top of his main ramp Stork pulls 11 of his probes Stork starts a zealot
3:00 2nd rax for Last makes a full wall off probes start killing the building scv of the CC Last pulls a bunch of scvs down to the natural scv vs probe battle in the natural
4:00 Stork is winning the fight with better probe micro Last is able to finish his natural CC zealot arrives in the natural of Last first marine is out for Last stork only has 3 more probes left on the offensive Last moves his low ground CC back into his main the zealot is walled out of the main and Last is repairing the wall
5:00 Stork is ahead 13 workers to 8 after Last kills off the rest of the probes in his main Stork loses his zealot Cybernetics core on the way for Stork another zealot is on the way for Stork 3 marines are on the way across the map
6:00 Marines arrive at the base of Stork the marines start kiting the zealot stalker is on the way for Stork zealot retreats back into the main and the stalker comes out the marines try to target down probes before they die Stork is able to clean up the marines and is still 7 workers ahead
7:00 both orbitals are done for Last at this point Nexus started for Stork Bunker in the natural for Last stalker from stork pokes at the natural but he's deflected by the bunker Last lands his natural OC
8:00 double gas for Last 2 more rax for Last Robo for stork 2nd gateway for Stork 2nd bunker started for Last in his natural stalker forces a cancel on the second bunker
9:00 Last starts a second bunker further back but Stork still picks off the building scv and escapes with his stalker stim research started for Last 3rd gateway for Stork observer for Stork Marauder production started for Last forge for Stork missile turret in the natural for Last to protect against possible DTs
10:00 factory started for Last 3rd gas for Last Robotics Bay for Stork observer scouts the main of Last and sees the factory still building Stork goes up to 4 gas +1 attack started for Last +1 armor started for Stork
11:00 starport started for Last colossus production started for Stork Stork is still ahead by 5 workers and 10 supply
12:00 Combat shields started for Last double medivac production started for Last Extended thermal lance research on the way for Stork Last is moving across the map with a bio force but the first Colossus is out 2nd colossus started for Stork concussive shells started for Last 2 more gates and a twilight council for Stork
13:00 3rd base started for Last zealot scout of Stork scouts the building 3rd CC and kills the scv Last is moving across the map again with his first 2 medivacs but 2 colossi are out now +1 attack started for Stork +1 armor started for Last blink started for Stork 2 more rax for Last another gateway for Stork
14:00 Last is trying to deny a 3rd base of Stork double drop in the main of Stork colossi walk back to the main and force a lift on the drop 2nd forge for stork armory and 2nd ebay started for Last 2nd starport started for Last 3rd colossus on the way for Stork
15:00 Charge research started for Stork +2 armor started for Stork double viking production started for Last 3rd base started for Stork at the 3 o'clock base
16:00 double drop at the 3rd of Stork Stork has to cancel his 3rd the double drop is killed on move command into the protoss army double drop is denied from Stork's main by stalkers
17:00 Stalkers try to chase the drop but Last regroups his army and picks off a few 2 more rax for Last 3rd base restarted for Stork 7 vikings out now vs 3 colossi
18:00 2-2 half way done for Last (18:20) +2 attack finishing for Stork +1 ship weapons on the way for Last Stork goes in for an attack as +2 attack finishes vikings focus on the colossi as the bio ball backs off 1 colossus falls right away but Stork takes out most of the vikings Templar archives finishes for Storks and archons are being made now
19:00 +3 armor started for Stork quad viking production now for Last 4 more gates added on for Stork
20:00 the scouting factory is taken out by stalkers Last is maxed 20 supply ahead of Stork Last is looking to attack at the 3rd of Stork some scvs are pulled with the attack and it begins half of the bio force is forcefielded out of the start of the battle archons are doing lots of damage all the vikings fall without killing the rest of the colossi
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul R2 Game 1: 0-0 Stork vs Last Map: Neo Planet S
0:00 Stork spawns in the top right Last spawns in the bottom left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 double gas for Stork CC first for Last on the low ground probe scout from Stork sees the CC first rax for Last at the top of his main ramp Stork pulls 11 of his probes Stork starts a zealot
3:00 2nd rax for Last makes a full wall off probes start killing the building scv of the CC Last pulls a bunch of scvs down to the natural scv vs probe battle in the natural
4:00 Stork is winning the fight with better probe micro Last is able to finish his natural CC zealot arrives in the natural of Last first marine is out for Last stork only has 3 more probes left on the offensive Last moves his low ground CC back into his main the zealot is walled out of the main and Last is repairing the wall
5:00 Stork is ahead 13 workers to 8 after Last kills off the rest of the probes in his main Stork loses his zealot Cybernetics core on the way for Stork another zealot is on the way for Stork 3 marines are on the way across the map
6:00 Marines arrive at the base of Stork the marines start kiting the zealot stalker is on the way for Stork zealot retreats back into the main and the stalker comes out the marines try to target down probes before they die Stork is able to clean up the marines and is still 7 workers ahead
7:00 both orbitals are done for Last at this point Nexus started for Stork Bunker in the natural for Last stalker from stork pokes at the natural but he's deflected by the bunker Last lands his natural OC
8:00 double gas for Last 2 more rax for Last Robo for stork 2nd gateway for Stork 2nd bunker started for Last in his natural stalker forces a cancel on the second bunker
9:00 Last starts a second bunker further back but Stork still picks off the building scv and escapes with his stalker stim research started for Last 3rd gateway for Stork observer for Stork Marauder production started for Last forge for Stork missile turret in the natural for Last to protect against possible DTs
10:00 factory started for Last 3rd gas for Last Robotics Bay for Stork observer scouts the main of Last and sees the factory still building Stork goes up to 4 gas +1 attack started for Last +1 armor started for Stork
11:00 starport started for Last colossus production started for Stork Stork is still ahead by 5 workers and 10 supply
12:00 Combat shields started for Last double medivac production started for Last Extended thermal lance research on the way for Stork Last is moving across the map with a bio force but the first Colossus is out 2nd colossus started for Stork concussive shells started for Last 2 more gates and a twilight council for Stork
13:00 3rd base started for Last zealot scout of Stork scouts the building 3rd CC and kills the scv Last is moving across the map again with his first 2 medivacs but 2 colossi are out now +1 attack started for Stork +1 armor started for Last blink started for Stork 2 more rax for Last another gateway for Stork
14:00 Last is trying to deny a 3rd base of Stork double drop in the main of Stork colossi walk back to the main and force a lift on the drop 2nd forge for stork armory and 2nd ebay started for Last 2nd starport started for Last 3rd colossus on the way for Stork
15:00 Charge research started for Stork +2 armor started for Stork double viking production started for Last 3rd base started for Stork at the 3 o'clock base
16:00 double drop at the 3rd of Stork Stork has to cancel his 3rd the double drop is killed on move command into the protoss army double drop is denied from Stork's main by stalkers
17:00 Stalkers try to chase the drop but Last regroups his army and picks off a few 2 more rax for Last 3rd base restarted for Stork 7 vikings out now vs 3 colossi
18:00 2-2 half way done for Last (18:20) +2 attack finishing for Stork +1 ship weapons on the way for Last Stork goes in for an attack as +2 attack finishes vikings focus on the colossi as the bio ball backs off 1 colossus falls right away but Stork takes out most of the vikings Templar archives finishes for Storks and archons are being made now
19:00 +3 armor started for Stork quad viking production now for Last 4 more gates added on for Stork
20:00 the scouting factory is taken out by stalkers Last is maxed 20 supply ahead of Stork Last is looking to attack at the 3rd of Stork some scvs are pulled with the attack and it begins half of the bio force is forcefielded out of the start of the battle archons are doing lots of damage all the vikings fall without killing the rest of the colossi
21:00 Stork takes a 40 supply lead after the fight and Last is on the run Stork is going for the counterattack deathblow Last ggs! Stork wins 1-0 Samsung KHAN
On January 12 2013 12:36 BLinD-RawR wrote: how is stork winning this? O_O
All of Last's vikigns clumped above Archons and died before they could kill Collosi + goos forcewfields from stork keeping most of the bio back letting his collosi rain down hellish lasers of death! Was really silly of Last to pull scv's and try to charge into the concave tbh.
On January 12 2013 12:37 Taipoka wrote: And Stork won even doing that... i don´t know what word to describe that.
Well, his probe pull was not effective but it only put him slightly behind (behind in eco and ahead in tech). And it probably messed up the build/rhythm of Last.
On January 12 2013 12:35 Zenbrez wrote: There was a lot of subtle very good things Stork did in that engagement, props
Can you elaborate? I wasn't watching too closely.
Before the last fight, pre-slit his army into an arc with several layers (Zealot then Archon then Stalkers/Sentries than Colossi) so when Last attack into the third, Zealot would tank the initial damage, while Archons mow down marines/vikings and stalkers picking off viking).
Haven't been watching Proleague much so my question is if the average game looks as raw as this one? Both players made a whole bunch of obvious mistakes.
On January 12 2013 12:38 BretZ wrote: Everybody should go upvote the match thread on reddit. Would be nice if someone in starcraft had a dedicated match thread on reddit.
I saw last night that the well formatted thread for GSL barely got any upvotes, seems like reddit users don't care enough to upvote posts with tournament info ;/
On January 12 2013 12:40 Baum wrote: Haven't been watching Proleague much so my question is if the average game looks as raw as this one? Both players made a whole bunch of obvious mistakes.
On January 12 2013 12:35 Zenbrez wrote: There was a lot of subtle very good things Stork did in that engagement, props
Can you elaborate? I wasn't watching too closely.
Before the last fight, pre-slit his army into an arc with several layers (Zealot then Archon then Stalkers/Sentries than Colossi) so when Last attack into the third, Zealot would tank the initial damage, while Archons mow down marines/vikings and stalkers picking off viking).
Yeah, I saw the pre-split, but I figured Zenbrez was talking about other stuff. The pre-split was anything but subtle, it was funny seeing Last attack right into that sick arc.
On January 12 2013 12:37 Taipoka wrote: And Stork won even doing that... i don´t know what word to describe that.
Well, his probe pull was not effective but it only put him slightly behind (behind in eco and ahead in tech). And it probably messed up the build/rhythm of Last.
Other way around I think... After the worker fight was over... Stork had more workers but didn't even have a core yet.
On January 12 2013 12:38 BretZ wrote: Everybody should go upvote the match thread on reddit. Would be nice if someone in starcraft had a dedicated match thread on reddit.
On January 12 2013 12:35 Zenbrez wrote: There was a lot of subtle very good things Stork did in that engagement, props
Can you elaborate? I wasn't watching too closely.
Before the last fight, pre-slit his army into an arc with several layers (Zealot then Archon then Stalkers/Sentries than Colossi) so when Last attack into the third, Zealot would tank the initial damage, while Archons mow down marines/vikings and stalkers picking off viking).
Yeah, I saw the pre-split, but I figured Zenbrez was talking about other stuff. The pre-split was anything but subtle, it was funny seeing Last attack right into that sick arc.
Hmm, maybe he also counts about drop defense positioning or not over committing when he engage the bio force at the bottom of the map too.
On January 12 2013 12:38 BretZ wrote: Everybody should go upvote the match thread on reddit. Would be nice if someone in starcraft had a dedicated match thread on reddit.
On January 12 2013 12:45 Shellshock1122 wrote: remember when hyvaa beat Rain in MvP and everyone thought he had the chance to be one of the best Kespa players?
And here I thought I was the only one who watched the MvP xD
I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
On January 12 2013 12:38 BretZ wrote: Everybody should go upvote the match thread on reddit. Would be nice if someone in starcraft had a dedicated match thread on reddit.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
I think he pulled too few SCVs because he was panic and pulled the amount normally need to fend off 4 probes rush instead of 11. Well, I would be panic too if I see that many probes, lol.
I'm as good of a GM to my fantasy team as Brian Bruke was a GM to the leafs. All my trades (excpet trap for stephano on anti team in R1) have resulted in negative points. Today is no exception.
The one positive thing with Arkanoid is that you can go and get something to eat as nothing will happen for about 10~15 minutes.
EDIT: and then there's Hyvaa with early pressure -.-
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 2: 1-0 Stork vs hyvaa Map: Neo Arkanoid
0:00 Stork spawns in the bottom left hyvaa spawns in the top left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 pool first for hyvaa gas for hyvaa double gas for Stork cybernetics core for Stork
3:00 zealot for Stork 6 lings coming out for hyvaa hyvaa starts killing the rocks at his center hallway Roach warren for hyvaa ling speed for hyvaa sentry for Stork Stork clearing out the blocking creep tumor on the right side
4:00 Roach production started for hyvaa hyvaa breaking down the rocks to the center ring Nexus started for Stork on the right side Stork clearing the creep bubble on the left side forge for Stork
5;00 2nd sentry for Stork hyvaa now breaking down the rocks towards Stork's base robo for Stork Stork is walling off his rocks lings start breaking down the center rocks to Stork's base Stork sees everything
These rocks are pretty ineffective since they lowered the hp and armor, you only have to chew through 4 sets of them and you can still rush pretty well.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
Yeah the reason I said Last had a "terrible reaction" is because the first engagement was like 6 SCVs against like 9 or 10 probes.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
This is incorrect. Stork didn't drop his nexus until well after the probe shenanigans. Last needs only cancel the CC, restart it on the high ground, and laugh. This also would have given him the minerals necessary to start his first orbital on time... if you noticed in the game, he didn't even start his first orbital until about the time Stork started his second nexus!!
The missed mining time of 10 probes would have been a TERRIBLE trade off for a delay of the CC + 100 mineral cancel cost. Last would have had his second CC up before the second nexus instead of being down workers with no orbitals after the rush.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
Well, that was the point of the build. It is a surprise build. If your opponent reacts optimally, you are pretty behind. But again, it is since a rare build that I think most players won't react perfectly. Remember that if he pulled too much, Stork just pulls back and Last falls behind on mineral gathering.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 2: 1-0 Stork vs hyvaa Map: Neo Arkanoid
0:00 Stork spawns in the bottom left hyvaa spawns in the top left
1:40 gateway first for Stork
2:00 pool first for hyvaa gas for hyvaa double gas for Stork cybernetics core for Stork
3:00 zealot for Stork 6 lings coming out for hyvaa hyvaa starts killing the rocks at his center hallway Roach warren for hyvaa ling speed for hyvaa sentry for Stork Stork clearing out the blocking creep tumor on the right side
4:00 Roach production started for hyvaa hyvaa breaking down the rocks to the center ring Nexus started for Stork on the right side Stork clearing the creep bubble on the left side forge for Stork
5;00 2nd sentry for Stork hyvaa now breaking down the rocks towards Stork's base robo for Stork Stork is walling off his rocks lings start breaking down the center rocks to Stork's base Stork sees everything
6:00 2 cannons started for Stork forcefields put down to stop the lings from hitting the rocks but roaches are hitting them the first rocks fall forcefields trap out half of the units some lings get into the main but forcefields stop the roaches
7:00 probes are pulled to fight the lings immortal on the way for STork now all of hyvaa's lings and roaches are in stork's base immortal comes out to fight probes are bouncing between bases to avoid lings ling reinforcements run in and kill the immortal
8:00 Stork is down to 13 supply hyvaa is killing both nexuses of Stork Stork has 6 probes left the 2nd nexus of Stork falls Stork ggs! hyvaa ties up the score at 1-1!
I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
I gave up watching the absolutely abysmal English cast a long time ago. I'm not a fan of watching StarfCraft in Korean, to be honest, but it's better than listening to someone say nonsensical things with a speech impediment/accent and pretend to get excited.
VLC link to Korean stream is in the live thread OP.
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
Stork actually had a chance to win, but he messed up his micro...
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
They were particularly bad in this regard that game. Once Nathanias fixes his internet you should check out his commentary if you want to not listen to those guys. His link is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Nathanias
I'm sure the official casters will approve, but for now I'm not a fan.
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
I gave up watching the absolutely abysmal English cast a long time ago. I'm not a fan of watching StarfCraft in Korean, to be honest, but it's better than listening to someone say nonsensical things with a speech impediment/accent and pretend to get excited.
VLC link to Korean stream is in the live thread OP.
I agree that they need work, but that's not my point. My question was a more general one. I notice other casters will do this as well, but generally more subtly (Tastosis?).
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
I gave up watching the absolutely abysmal English cast a long time ago. I'm not a fan of watching StarfCraft in Korean, to be honest, but it's better than listening to someone say nonsensical things with a speech impediment/accent and pretend to get excited.
VLC link to Korean stream is in the live thread OP.
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
They were particularly bad in this regard that game. Once Nathanias fixes his internet you should check out his commentary if you want to not listen to those guys. His link is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Nathanias
I'm sure the official casters will approve, but for now I'm not a fan.
It begs the question whether they are doing so to try to keep things interesting or out of pure ignorance.
On January 12 2013 12:55 AgentW wrote: I hate it when casters act like a guy still has a chance to win when anyone with a brain know's its super over. Anyone else feel this way? I've noticed Wolf's the complete opposite of these casters, perhaps a bit to much, in that regard.
Stork actually had a chance to win, but he messed up his micro...
I am not sure. Maybe if the cannons were in better position. Too many lings got through (and were still coming through)
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
This is incorrect. Stork didn't drop his nexus until well after the probe shenanigans. Last needs only cancel the CC, restart it on the high ground, and laugh. This also would have given him the minerals necessary to start his first orbital on time... if you noticed in the game, he didn't even start his first orbital until about the time Stork started his second nexus!!
The missed mining time of 10 probes would have been a TERRIBLE trade off for a delay of the CC + 100 mineral cancel cost. Last would have had his second CC up before the second nexus instead of being down workers with no orbitals after the rush.
Stork didn't drop his nexus because he couldn't with the marine follow up coming. Its Last cancelled and rebuilt the CC on highground he could have dropped the Nexus much earlier instead of Getting core another zealot and a stalker. knowing Last had to rebuild CC and wouldn't be pushing out anytime soon.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
Hi, welcome to the internet. You must be new here.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
This is incorrect. Stork didn't drop his nexus until well after the probe shenanigans. Last needs only cancel the CC, restart it on the high ground, and laugh. This also would have given him the minerals necessary to start his first orbital on time... if you noticed in the game, he didn't even start his first orbital until about the time Stork started his second nexus!!
The missed mining time of 10 probes would have been a TERRIBLE trade off for a delay of the CC + 100 mineral cancel cost. Last would have had his second CC up before the second nexus instead of being down workers with no orbitals after the rush.
Stork didn't drop his nexus because he couldn't with the marine follow up coming. Its Last cancelled and rebuilt the CC on highground he could have dropped the Nexus much earlier instead of Getting core another zealot and a stalker. knowing Last had to rebuild CC and wouldn't be pushing out anytime soon.
If Last cancelled his CC how would Stork know whether he was building another CC or 2rax? Keep in mind Stork hadn't built a core yet (or even a gas)
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
"You see, he's going for a four gate, Al! You see, there's two gateways over here *circles on telestrator* and two gateways over here *circles on telestrator* and that makes four gateways!"
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Took the words out of my mouth.
Still, there's a fine line between good criticism and merely bashing casters without offering any advise. I think many people do well to not cross this line, but some comments are just plain bashing.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
Wow, nice. Everyone criticizing the casters should give them more chances and/or feedback on their thread.
Also Whiplash was a progamer before this. He participate in MLGs in 2011 (though he didn't get far, at least he got far enough to lose to known pro gamers rather than randoms).
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 3: 1-1 JangBi vs hyvaa Map: Neo Bifrost
0:00 JangBi spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for hyvaa forge first for JangBi pylon block in the pocket natural of hyvaa
3:00 Nexus for JangBi cannon for JangBi hatch for hyvaa
4:00 gas for Jangbi gateway for Jangbi at the back to wall off the back hallway 2nd gas for Jangbi lings from hyvaa running around the back hallway 3rd base for hyvaa cannon at the back for Jangbi too forces the lings to back off
5:00 Cybernetics core for Jangbi zealot for Jangbi
On January 12 2013 13:11 Maghetti wrote: Oh crap this started sooner than I thought. I missed the first two games...
You missed a probe rush, man
wuttt??? fo real?
2:00 double gas for Stork CC first for Last on the low ground probe scout from Stork sees the CC first rax for Last at the top of his main ramp Stork pulls 11 of his probes
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
Apparently you've never worked tech support or customer service. It's not uncommon for me to get called names before I've even had a chance to say something other than "thank you for calling".
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
You're the kind of guy that treats the barista like shit merely because you can, aren't you?
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 3: 1-1 JangBi vs hyvaa Map: Neo Bifrost
0:00 JangBi spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for hyvaa forge first for JangBi pylon block in the pocket natural of hyvaa
3:00 Nexus for JangBi cannon for JangBi hatch for hyvaa
4:00 gas for Jangbi gateway for Jangbi at the back to wall off the back hallway 2nd gas for Jangbi lings from hyvaa running around the back hallway 3rd base for hyvaa cannon at the back for Jangbi too forces the lings to back off
5:00 Cybernetics core for Jangbi zealot for Jangbi
6:00 stalker for Jangbi double gas for hyvaa Stargate for Jangbi 3rd gas for hyvaa +1 attack started for Jangbi overlord scouts the stargate
7:00 2nd stalker for Jangbi ling speed started for hyvaa phoenix production started for Jangbi evo chamber for hyvaa 2 more gas for Jangbi Lair for hyvaa
8:00 3 more gates for Jangbi Jangbi moves out with his zealot and stalker but lings kill off the zealot and chase the stalker back spores started for hyvaa at his mineral lines +1 melee started for hyvaa robo for Jangbi Roach warren for hyvaa
9:00 forward pylon of Jangbi is scouted by lings and forced to cancel infestation pit for hyvaa +1 armor started for Jangbi Twilight council for Jangbi observer for Jangbi Roach speed started for hyvaa
10:00 overseer gets a full scout of Jangbi's base Warp prism started for Jangbi after the overseer is killed macro hatch for hyvaa pathogen glands started for hyvaa small ling vs gateway unit skirmish in the middle of the map but the lings have to run away phoenixes are trying to find somewhere to harass immortal production started for Jangbi Templar archives started for Jangbi
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
Apparently you've never worked tech support or customer service. It's not uncommon for me to get called names before I've even had a chance to say something other than "thank you for calling".
Just because someone does something doesnt mean it's actually called for or actually being a decent human being in this case
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
Apparently you've never worked tech support or customer service. It's not uncommon for me to get called names before I've even had a chance to say something other than "thank you for calling".
And why do you think this occurs more via telephone compare to face-to-face. Because people know there is little or nothing that person can do. Same with the internet. But are you saying it should be ok to verbal abuse tech support or customer service?
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 3: 1-1 JangBi vs hyvaa Map: Neo Bifrost
0:00 JangBi spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for hyvaa forge first for JangBi pylon block in the pocket natural of hyvaa
3:00 Nexus for JangBi cannon for JangBi hatch for hyvaa
4:00 gas for Jangbi gateway for Jangbi at the back to wall off the back hallway 2nd gas for Jangbi lings from hyvaa running around the back hallway 3rd base for hyvaa cannon at the back for Jangbi too forces the lings to back off
5:00 Cybernetics core for Jangbi zealot for Jangbi
6:00 stalker for Jangbi double gas for hyvaa Stargate for Jangbi 3rd gas for hyvaa +1 attack started for Jangbi overlord scouts the stargate
7:00 2nd stalker for Jangbi ling speed started for hyvaa phoenix production started for Jangbi evo chamber for hyvaa 2 more gas for Jangbi Lair for hyvaa
8:00 3 more gates for Jangbi Jangbi moves out with his zealot and stalker but lings kill off the zealot and chase the stalker back spores started for hyvaa at his mineral lines +1 melee started for hyvaa robo for Jangbi Roach warren for hyvaa
9:00 forward pylon of Jangbi is scouted by lings and forced to cancel infestation pit for hyvaa +1 armor started for Jangbi Twilight council for Jangbi observer for Jangbi Roach speed started for hyvaa
10:00 overseer gets a full scout of Jangbi's base Warp prism started for Jangbi after the overseer is killed macro hatch for hyvaa pathogen glands started for hyvaa small ling vs gateway unit skirmish in the middle of the map but the lings have to run away phoenixes are trying to find somewhere to harass immortal production started for Jangbi Templar archives started for Jangbi
11:00 +1 range attack started for hyvaa warp prism flying across the map a few more stalkers are caught on the map by lings and killed
12:00 3rd base started for Jangbi charge research started for Jangbi infestor production started for hyvaa 2 more gates for Jangbi Roaches are putting on some pressure at Jangbi's 3rd but zealots sentries and an immortal push them back
13:00 phoenixes fly in and lift a bunch of the roaches and Jangbi kills them off burrow research started for hyvaa +2 attack started for Jangbi Warp prism warps in some stalkers on the high ground behind hyvaa's 3rd and they start harassing the minerals
14:00 IT thrown up on the ledge to kill the stalkers +2 melee started for hyvaa HTs are being warped in now 4th base started for hyvaa Jangbi doing another ledge warp in to harass
15:00 archons morphing in for Jangbi spire started for hyvaa blink research started for Jangbi
Sigh, BW guys always likes to do constant harrassment, but usually the only battle matters in SC2 is just front battle. Harrassment makes front army much weaker.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
Apparently you've never worked tech support or customer service. It's not uncommon for me to get called names before I've even had a chance to say something other than "thank you for calling".
And why do you think this occurs more via telephone compare to face-to-face. Because people know there is little or nothing that person can do. Same with the internet. But are you saying it should be ok to verbal abuse tech support or customer service?
You said people can't do it... and I'm telling you people do do it. Besides... I haven't seen THAT much hate in these threads... these casters are kinda boring... Both are play-by-play. I don't really care about casters that much unless they are really really bad or really really good.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 3: 1-1 JangBi vs hyvaa Map: Neo Bifrost
0:00 JangBi spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for hyvaa forge first for JangBi pylon block in the pocket natural of hyvaa
3:00 Nexus for JangBi cannon for JangBi hatch for hyvaa
4:00 gas for Jangbi gateway for Jangbi at the back to wall off the back hallway 2nd gas for Jangbi lings from hyvaa running around the back hallway 3rd base for hyvaa cannon at the back for Jangbi too forces the lings to back off
5:00 Cybernetics core for Jangbi zealot for Jangbi
6:00 stalker for Jangbi double gas for hyvaa Stargate for Jangbi 3rd gas for hyvaa +1 attack started for Jangbi overlord scouts the stargate
7:00 2nd stalker for Jangbi ling speed started for hyvaa phoenix production started for Jangbi evo chamber for hyvaa 2 more gas for Jangbi Lair for hyvaa
8:00 3 more gates for Jangbi Jangbi moves out with his zealot and stalker but lings kill off the zealot and chase the stalker back spores started for hyvaa at his mineral lines +1 melee started for hyvaa robo for Jangbi Roach warren for hyvaa
9:00 forward pylon of Jangbi is scouted by lings and forced to cancel infestation pit for hyvaa +1 armor started for Jangbi Twilight council for Jangbi observer for Jangbi Roach speed started for hyvaa
10:00 overseer gets a full scout of Jangbi's base Warp prism started for Jangbi after the overseer is killed macro hatch for hyvaa pathogen glands started for hyvaa small ling vs gateway unit skirmish in the middle of the map but the lings have to run away phoenixes are trying to find somewhere to harass immortal production started for Jangbi Templar archives started for Jangbi
11:00 +1 range attack started for hyvaa warp prism flying across the map a few more stalkers are caught on the map by lings and killed
12:00 3rd base started for Jangbi charge research started for Jangbi infestor production started for hyvaa 2 more gates for Jangbi Roaches are putting on some pressure at Jangbi's 3rd but zealots sentries and an immortal push them back
13:00 phoenixes fly in and lift a bunch of the roaches and Jangbi kills them off burrow research started for hyvaa +2 attack started for Jangbi Warp prism warps in some stalkers on the high ground behind hyvaa's 3rd and they start harassing the minerals
14:00 IT thrown up on the ledge to kill the stalkers +2 melee started for hyvaa HTs are being warped in now 4th base started for hyvaa Jangbi doing another ledge warp in to harass
15:00 archons morphing in for Jangbi spire started for hyvaa blink research started for Jangbi
16:00 Jangbi starting to move out on the map the first warp prism is killed so another one is started Robotics bay started for Jangbi the armies clash in the middle of the map hyvaa throws out a lot of infested terran Jangbi doesnt have a large enough army all of the infestors burrow and escape
17:00 Jangbi loses 2 of his 3 immortals and all of his sentries hyvaa is now 85 supply ahead Jangbi is pushed back to his 3rd in order to regroup +3 attack started for Jangbi +1 carapace started for hyvaa +2 range attack started for hyvaa colossus production and extended thermal lance research started for Jangbi
18:00 3 more gateways for Jangbi hive started for hyvaa warp prism warping in zealots at the natural of hyvaa infestors are burrowing around the back hallway and throw out IT all in Jangbi's 3rd Jangbi engages hyvaa's other half of army in the middle of the map
19:00 Jangbi is able to save his 3rd base but is still 60 supply down more IT are thrown out at Jangbi's 3rd but Jangbi is nearby so he cleans them up zealot runby at the 3rd of hyvaa corruptors are out for hyvaa now
20:00 hyvaa is maxed 17 infestors out for hyvaa +3 melee and adrenal glands started for hyvaa hyvaa pushing across the map
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
Apparently you've never worked tech support or customer service. It's not uncommon for me to get called names before I've even had a chance to say something other than "thank you for calling".
And why do you think this occurs more via telephone compare to face-to-face. Because people know there is little or nothing that person can do. Same with the internet. But are you saying it should be ok to verbal abuse tech support or customer service?
You said people can't do it... and I'm telling you people do do it. Besides... I haven't seen THAT much hate in these threads... these casters are kinda boring... Both are play-by-play. I don't really care about casters that much unless they are really really bad or really really good.
People can do it, sure, the same way people can kill other people but most of us don't do it. You may be too young to realize that there are some unwritten rules of society and one of them is to act, more or less, civilly. This is the internet and people can get away with it, but if you go out and act like that in general society you will find people won't want to associate themselves with you. Just some general life advice.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 3: 1-1 JangBi vs hyvaa Map: Neo Bifrost
0:00 JangBi spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
2:00 pool first for hyvaa forge first for JangBi pylon block in the pocket natural of hyvaa
3:00 Nexus for JangBi cannon for JangBi hatch for hyvaa
4:00 gas for Jangbi gateway for Jangbi at the back to wall off the back hallway 2nd gas for Jangbi lings from hyvaa running around the back hallway 3rd base for hyvaa cannon at the back for Jangbi too forces the lings to back off
5:00 Cybernetics core for Jangbi zealot for Jangbi
6:00 stalker for Jangbi double gas for hyvaa Stargate for Jangbi 3rd gas for hyvaa +1 attack started for Jangbi overlord scouts the stargate
7:00 2nd stalker for Jangbi ling speed started for hyvaa phoenix production started for Jangbi evo chamber for hyvaa 2 more gas for Jangbi Lair for hyvaa
8:00 3 more gates for Jangbi Jangbi moves out with his zealot and stalker but lings kill off the zealot and chase the stalker back spores started for hyvaa at his mineral lines +1 melee started for hyvaa robo for Jangbi Roach warren for hyvaa
9:00 forward pylon of Jangbi is scouted by lings and forced to cancel infestation pit for hyvaa +1 armor started for Jangbi Twilight council for Jangbi observer for Jangbi Roach speed started for hyvaa
10:00 overseer gets a full scout of Jangbi's base Warp prism started for Jangbi after the overseer is killed macro hatch for hyvaa pathogen glands started for hyvaa small ling vs gateway unit skirmish in the middle of the map but the lings have to run away phoenixes are trying to find somewhere to harass immortal production started for Jangbi Templar archives started for Jangbi
11:00 +1 range attack started for hyvaa warp prism flying across the map a few more stalkers are caught on the map by lings and killed
12:00 3rd base started for Jangbi charge research started for Jangbi infestor production started for hyvaa 2 more gates for Jangbi Roaches are putting on some pressure at Jangbi's 3rd but zealots sentries and an immortal push them back
13:00 phoenixes fly in and lift a bunch of the roaches and Jangbi kills them off burrow research started for hyvaa +2 attack started for Jangbi Warp prism warps in some stalkers on the high ground behind hyvaa's 3rd and they start harassing the minerals
14:00 IT thrown up on the ledge to kill the stalkers +2 melee started for hyvaa HTs are being warped in now 4th base started for hyvaa Jangbi doing another ledge warp in to harass
15:00 archons morphing in for Jangbi spire started for hyvaa blink research started for Jangbi
16:00 Jangbi starting to move out on the map the first warp prism is killed so another one is started Robotics bay started for Jangbi the armies clash in the middle of the map hyvaa throws out a lot of infested terran Jangbi doesnt have a large enough army all of the infestors burrow and escape
17:00 Jangbi loses 2 of his 3 immortals and all of his sentries hyvaa is now 85 supply ahead Jangbi is pushed back to his 3rd in order to regroup +3 attack started for Jangbi +1 carapace started for hyvaa +2 range attack started for hyvaa colossus production and extended thermal lance research started for Jangbi
18:00 3 more gateways for Jangbi hive started for hyvaa warp prism warping in zealots at the natural of hyvaa infestors are burrowing around the back hallway and throw out IT all in Jangbi's 3rd Jangbi engages hyvaa's other half of army in the middle of the map
19:00 Jangbi is able to save his 3rd base but is still 60 supply down more IT are thrown out at Jangbi's 3rd but Jangbi is nearby so he cleans them up zealot runby at the 3rd of hyvaa corruptors are out for hyvaa now
20:00 hyvaa is maxed 17 infestors out for hyvaa +3 melee and adrenal glands started for hyvaa hyvaa pushing across the map
21:00 hyvaa attacks into Jangbi's army stalkers blink under the corruptors to try and kill them second group of infestors throw out IT at jangbi's 3rd and kill the nexus Jangbi is able to micro back and hold off the push of hyvaa keeping 3 colossi alive
22:00 Jangbi is trying to make more units but he has way down in supply greater spire started for hyvaa +2 carapace on the way for hyvaa Jangbi is moving out on the map again
23:00 hyvaa has plenty of corruptors out this time and is killing off all of the colossi Jangbi is able to hold off the ground army with his stalkers and archons large ling runby heading towards Jangbi's 3rd base area all the probes distance mining are being killed Jangbi ggs! hyvaa wins and puts STX Soul up 2-1!
On January 12 2013 13:22 skYTosS wrote: Sigh, BW guys always likes to do constant harrassment, but usually the only battle matters in SC2 is just front battle. Harrassment makes front army much weaker.
The problem is that Jangbi's harrassment did not really do any damage at all... His phoenix was revealed too too soon.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
Hi, welcome to the internet. You must be new here.
Doesn't mean that we can't be civilised. Give the casters a chance to improve imo.
On January 12 2013 13:22 skYTosS wrote: Sigh, BW guys always likes to do constant harrassment, but usually the only battle matters in SC2 is just front battle. Harrassment makes front army much weaker.
The problem is that Jangbi's harrassment did not really do any damage at all... His phoenix was revealed too too soon.
If you got harassed in BW and lost workers it's a massively bigger deal than in SC2, you literally have to click 5-6 more unique times per new worker (go to area of base, make worker, go back to area of base, click on worker, mine). In SC2 you just click one button repeatedly auto mine. When you did it in BW it detracted from the opponent's ability to manage other aspects of the game.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
Hi, welcome to the internet. You must be new here.
Doesn't mean that we can't be civilised. Give the casters a chance to improve imo.
Yeah, bashing these two new casters is getting old. People who loves bashing casters should direct their rage towards some established casters. That will be cool, most of established casters are not good in certain aspects, it is just people are familiar with them.
On January 12 2013 13:32 opterown wrote: roro please 3 kill or something
I hope we see the good roro that dominates everything D:
The roro rule is that he will never play well when you want him to, and he'll never lose if you don't want to see him win. This roro rule has plagued WeMade and now Khan fans for generations
On January 12 2013 13:32 opterown wrote: roro please 3 kill or something
I hope we see the good roro that dominates everything D:
The roro rule is that he will never play well when you want him to, and he'll never lose if you don't want to see him win. This roro rule has plagued WeMade and now Khan fans for generations
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
This is incorrect. Stork didn't drop his nexus until well after the probe shenanigans. Last needs only cancel the CC, restart it on the high ground, and laugh. This also would have given him the minerals necessary to start his first orbital on time... if you noticed in the game, he didn't even start his first orbital until about the time Stork started his second nexus!!
The missed mining time of 10 probes would have been a TERRIBLE trade off for a delay of the CC + 100 mineral cancel cost. Last would have had his second CC up before the second nexus instead of being down workers with no orbitals after the rush.
Stork didn't drop his nexus because he couldn't with the marine follow up coming. Its Last cancelled and rebuilt the CC on highground he could have dropped the Nexus much earlier instead of Getting core another zealot and a stalker. knowing Last had to rebuild CC and wouldn't be pushing out anytime soon.
If Last cancels & rebuilds on the high ground, he is leagues ahead economically than what happened in the actual game (~10 more SCVs & 2 or 3 more mules due to not having a late first orbital - second orbital comes at around the same time). The potential for a marine follow-up is the same either way. Rebuilding on the high ground has absolutely no bearing on when Stork can drop the second nexus. Having to rebuild a CC costs ONLY 100 MINERALS - far, far, far less than he lost by doing his stupid move. It would have IN NO WAY have delayed any marine counter-attack by Last.
There's just no way that SCV pull is a good idea. I know why Last did it - to try & finish the second CC & pull back. But it was the wrong move any way you slice it. It hurt - a lot.
And no freaking way you're going to tell me that Stork having ten idle probes for a minute (travel back and across the map) puts him ahead when Last's are all mining during that time. Stork got lucky Last got stupid & gifted him an advantage. Then he did a good job closing out the game.
On January 12 2013 13:22 skYTosS wrote: Sigh, BW guys always likes to do constant harrassment, but usually the only battle matters in SC2 is just front battle. Harrassment makes front army much weaker.
The problem is that Jangbi's harrassment did not really do any damage at all... His phoenix was revealed too too soon.
If you got harassed in BW and lost workers it's a massively bigger deal than in SC2, you literally have to click 5-6 more unique times per new worker (go to area of base, make worker, go back to area of base, click on worker, mine). In SC2 you just click one button repeatedly auto mine. When you did it in BW it detracted from the opponent's ability to manage other aspects of the game.
I understand that. But that doesn't mean harassment cannot do any damage in SC2 at all, it just need to kill a considerable amount of units/wokers/buildings, or detract the player's attention away from the front line before you engage the main battle or where he should be focus on. Jangbi's harassment did neither of this, so it did not do any damage.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
You're the kind of guy that treats the barista like shit merely because you can, aren't you?
Not that I drink coffee but if it was the equivalent of this cast I'd probably complain. Complaints/criticism doesn't equal treating someone like shit. Better they recieve some feedback than serve shit coffee forever because people are too 'nice'.
On January 12 2013 13:03 coasts wrote: I wonder if people who keep on insulting the casters realize that they are real people who actually have feelings and happen to frequent TL.
They are employed to provide a service. If they want to be professional casters they open themselves up to criticism.
Yes and no. Of course, they are open themselves up to criticism. But just because they are getting paid, it doesn't mean posters can say whatever they want. Just like in your job in RL, your customers can't just come and talk shit to you. Sure, they can make complains and so forth. But they can't just come and make some of the comments that are made here.
Apparently you've never worked tech support or customer service. It's not uncommon for me to get called names before I've even had a chance to say something other than "thank you for calling".
And why do you think this occurs more via telephone compare to face-to-face. Because people know there is little or nothing that person can do. Same with the internet. But are you saying it should be ok to verbal abuse tech support or customer service?
You said people can't do it... and I'm telling you people do do it. Besides... I haven't seen THAT much hate in these threads... these casters are kinda boring... Both are play-by-play. I don't really care about casters that much unless they are really really bad or really really good.
People can do it, sure, the same way people can kill other people but most of us don't do it. You may be too young to realize that there are some unwritten rules of society and one of them is to act, more or less, civilly. This is the internet and people can get away with it, but if you go out and act like that in general society you will find people won't want to associate themselves with you. Just some general life advice.
Sigh... I guess Condescending = Mature.
I love how I make an offhand comment basically trying to say that criticism is out there and you just have to deal with it and now I'm trying to be cornered into defending unreasonable behavior that may or may not happen on the internet.
I haven't seen people be that unreasonable about the casters. (I may have missed some post that was more egregious)
If you've dealt with any job where you are constantly criticized by a largely anonymous audience, then you'll know that you have to separate the useful from the hate and focus on what you can improve. These casters need to improve and if people offer legitimate complaints about their casting then it can only help them.
On January 12 2013 12:46 MisterFred wrote: I don't get why people are surprised Stork won. Last gave away like 10 SCVs by pulling a SMALLER NUMBER THAN THE NUMBER OF PROBES and sending them out to die instead of... lifting the depot. Stork should have been laughed out of the studio. Instead Last responded with about the worst possible move.
In other news, no one knows why the five fans in the audience apparently brought a table full of food for Samsung?
If he doesn't send out SCV's Stork kills the CC goes home and drops a nexus and gets ahead anyway.... There is a reason why Last pulled his SCV's though I do agree he should have pulled more and probably should have micro'd them better.
This is incorrect. Stork didn't drop his nexus until well after the probe shenanigans. Last needs only cancel the CC, restart it on the high ground, and laugh. This also would have given him the minerals necessary to start his first orbital on time... if you noticed in the game, he didn't even start his first orbital until about the time Stork started his second nexus!!
The missed mining time of 10 probes would have been a TERRIBLE trade off for a delay of the CC + 100 mineral cancel cost. Last would have had his second CC up before the second nexus instead of being down workers with no orbitals after the rush.
Stork didn't drop his nexus because he couldn't with the marine follow up coming. Its Last cancelled and rebuilt the CC on highground he could have dropped the Nexus much earlier instead of Getting core another zealot and a stalker. knowing Last had to rebuild CC and wouldn't be pushing out anytime soon.
If Last cancels & rebuilds on the high ground, he is leagues ahead economically than what happened in the actual game (~10 more SCVs & 2 or 3 more mules due to not having a late first orbital - second orbital comes at around the same time). The potential for a marine follow-up is the same either way. Rebuilding on the high ground has absolutely no bearing on when Stork can drop the second nexus. Having to rebuild a CC costs ONLY 100 MINERALS - far, far, far less than he lost by doing his stupid move. It would have IN NO WAY have delayed any marine counter-attack by Last.
There's just no way that SCV pull is a good idea. I know why Last did it - to try & finish the second CC & pull back. But it was the wrong move any way you slice it. It hurt - a lot.
And no freaking way you're going to tell me that Stork having ten idle probes for a minute (travel back and across the map) puts him ahead when Last's are all mining during that time. Stork got lucky Last got stupid & gifted him an advantage. Then he did a good job closing out the game.
I agree, the only thing that may not change it is that Last didn't really build a wall, there was a gap between his rax... so that changes things slightly... but I do agree that Last could have reacted basically any other way and it would have been better.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 4: 1-2 RorO vs hyvaa Map: Cloud Kingdom
0:00 RorO spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
1:00 10 pool from RorO
2:00 15 pool for hyvaa 6 lings on the way for RorO hatch for hyvaa overlord of hyvaa sees the first 6 lings moving across the map 2 more lings on thew ay for RorO lings started for hyvaa
3:00 Roro's lings start chipping away at the bulding natural hatch hatch started for RorO hyvaa sends some lings and drones down to the natural RorO is microing around the hatch and hitting it while dodging hyvaa's units
4:00 RorO gets enough lings over to engage but hyvaa is able to push him back with 2 drone losses the hatch is in red health gas for hyvaa gas for ROrO
5:00 hyvaa sends some lings over to start hitting the hatch of RorO but RorO has enough lings and a queen to chase hyvaa back hyvaa goes up to 3 queens
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 4: 1-2 RorO vs hyvaa Map: Cloud Kingdom
0:00 RorO spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
1:00 10 pool from RorO
2:00 15 pool for hyvaa 6 lings on the way for RorO hatch for hyvaa overlord of hyvaa sees the first 6 lings moving across the map 2 more lings on thew ay for RorO lings started for hyvaa
3:00 Roro's lings start chipping away at the bulding natural hatch hatch started for RorO hyvaa sends some lings and drones down to the natural RorO is microing around the hatch and hitting it while dodging hyvaa's units
4:00 RorO gets enough lings over to engage but hyvaa is able to push him back with 2 drone losses the hatch is in red health gas for hyvaa gas for ROrO
5:00 hyvaa sends some lings over to start hitting the hatch of RorO but RorO has enough lings and a queen to chase hyvaa back hyvaa goes up to 3 queens
6:00 RorO is ahead by 3 drones queen of RorO kills a hyvaa overlord ling speed started for RorO ling speed started for hyvaa baneling nest started for hyvaa 2nd gas for hyvaa
7:00 baneling nest for RorO spinecrawler for hyvaa spinecrawler for RorO evo chamber for hyvaa 2nd gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO
8:00 roach warren for RorO Lair for RorO +1 carapace for hyvaa hyvaa looking to put on some ling baneling agression Roro has defensive banes and a wall ready +1 range attack started for RorO Lair started for hyvaa
9:00 hyvaa loses most of his lings to a baneling of RorO Roach speed started for RorO roach warren started for hyvaa infestation pit started for RorO roach production started for RorO
10:00 3rd base started for Roro another spine started for hyvaa 3rd base started for hyvaa Roach production started for hyvaa roach speed started for hyvaa infestation pit started for hyvaa burrow research started for RorO
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 4: 1-2 RorO vs hyvaa Map: Cloud Kingdom
0:00 RorO spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
1:00 10 pool from RorO
2:00 15 pool for hyvaa 6 lings on the way for RorO hatch for hyvaa overlord of hyvaa sees the first 6 lings moving across the map 2 more lings on thew ay for RorO lings started for hyvaa
3:00 Roro's lings start chipping away at the bulding natural hatch hatch started for RorO hyvaa sends some lings and drones down to the natural RorO is microing around the hatch and hitting it while dodging hyvaa's units
4:00 RorO gets enough lings over to engage but hyvaa is able to push him back with 2 drone losses the hatch is in red health gas for hyvaa gas for ROrO
5:00 hyvaa sends some lings over to start hitting the hatch of RorO but RorO has enough lings and a queen to chase hyvaa back hyvaa goes up to 3 queens
6:00 RorO is ahead by 3 drones queen of RorO kills a hyvaa overlord ling speed started for RorO ling speed started for hyvaa baneling nest started for hyvaa 2nd gas for hyvaa
7:00 baneling nest for RorO spinecrawler for hyvaa spinecrawler for RorO evo chamber for hyvaa 2nd gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO
8:00 roach warren for RorO Lair for RorO +1 carapace for hyvaa hyvaa looking to put on some ling baneling agression Roro has defensive banes and a wall ready +1 range attack started for RorO Lair started for hyvaa
9:00 hyvaa loses most of his lings to a baneling of RorO Roach speed started for RorO roach warren started for hyvaa infestation pit started for RorO roach production started for RorO
10:00 3rd base started for Roro another spine started for hyvaa 3rd base started for hyvaa Roach production started for hyvaa roach speed started for hyvaa infestation pit started for hyvaa burrow research started for RorO
11:00 +1 range attack started for hyvaa pathogen glands started for RorO +2 range attack started for RorO RorO sends his roaches across the map and attacks at hyvaa's 3rd hyvaa is able to push RorO back
12:00 pathogen glands started for hyvaa infestor production started for RorO macro hatch for RorO
13:00 hyvaa tries a roach runby to RorO's 3rd and natural but roaches are ready in both spots hyvaa is trying to force his way into the 3rd hyvaa is able to pick off an infestors but RorO pushes him back
14:00 57 drones for both players RorO chasing hyvaa back across the map contaminate on the 3rd hatch for hyvaa Roro backs off after hyvaa moves back into his natural +1 carapace started for RorO +2 range attack for hyvaa
15:00 RorO is 45 supply ahead hyvaa has 1 more infestor (5 - 4) small roach runby by RorO to hyvaa's 3rd an infestor spawns there and dies right away
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 4: 1-2 RorO vs hyvaa Map: Cloud Kingdom
0:00 RorO spawns in the top right hyvaa spawns in the bottom left
1:00 10 pool from RorO
2:00 15 pool for hyvaa 6 lings on the way for RorO hatch for hyvaa overlord of hyvaa sees the first 6 lings moving across the map 2 more lings on thew ay for RorO lings started for hyvaa
3:00 Roro's lings start chipping away at the bulding natural hatch hatch started for RorO hyvaa sends some lings and drones down to the natural RorO is microing around the hatch and hitting it while dodging hyvaa's units
4:00 RorO gets enough lings over to engage but hyvaa is able to push him back with 2 drone losses the hatch is in red health gas for hyvaa gas for ROrO
5:00 hyvaa sends some lings over to start hitting the hatch of RorO but RorO has enough lings and a queen to chase hyvaa back hyvaa goes up to 3 queens
6:00 RorO is ahead by 3 drones queen of RorO kills a hyvaa overlord ling speed started for RorO ling speed started for hyvaa baneling nest started for hyvaa 2nd gas for hyvaa
7:00 baneling nest for RorO spinecrawler for hyvaa spinecrawler for RorO evo chamber for hyvaa 2nd gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO
8:00 roach warren for RorO Lair for RorO +1 carapace for hyvaa hyvaa looking to put on some ling baneling agression Roro has defensive banes and a wall ready +1 range attack started for RorO Lair started for hyvaa
9:00 hyvaa loses most of his lings to a baneling of RorO Roach speed started for RorO roach warren started for hyvaa infestation pit started for RorO roach production started for RorO
10:00 3rd base started for Roro another spine started for hyvaa 3rd base started for hyvaa Roach production started for hyvaa roach speed started for hyvaa infestation pit started for hyvaa burrow research started for RorO
11:00 +1 range attack started for hyvaa pathogen glands started for RorO +2 range attack started for RorO RorO sends his roaches across the map and attacks at hyvaa's 3rd hyvaa is able to push RorO back
12:00 pathogen glands started for hyvaa infestor production started for RorO macro hatch for RorO
13:00 hyvaa tries a roach runby to RorO's 3rd and natural but roaches are ready in both spots hyvaa is trying to force his way into the 3rd hyvaa is able to pick off an infestors but RorO pushes him back
14:00 57 drones for both players RorO chasing hyvaa back across the map contaminate on the 3rd hatch for hyvaa Roro backs off after hyvaa moves back into his natural +1 carapace started for RorO +2 range attack for hyvaa
15:00 RorO is 45 supply ahead hyvaa has 1 more infestor (5 - 4) small roach runby by RorO to hyvaa's 3rd an infestor spawns there and dies right away
16:00 hyvaa counterattacking at the 3rd of RorO hyvaa move commands and loses a bunch of roaches hyvaa has to retreat RorO is at 190 vs 150 supply and is counterattacking 4th base started for RorO
17:00 RorO stops in the middle of the map Hydralisk den started for RorO contaminate on the evo chamber of RorO 4th base started for hyvaa hydralisk den started for hyvaa hydralisk range started for RorO
18:00 Roach runby into the natural of hyvaa big attack at the 4th of hyvaa green shit IT fungal whatever acid and shit everywhere 4th of hyvaa is killed both players lose almost all of their roaches roach runby to the 4th of RorO is deflected by spawning reinforcements
19:00 Roro remaxes vs 145 supply Roro had better infestor retention and is ahead 9 to 3 in the infestor count engagement on the high ground near Roro's 4th hyvaa loses a lot of roaches and some infestors and is down 80 supply 4th base restarted by hyvaa RorO going for a counter
20:00 hyvaa has 1 infestor left RorO pushing into the 3rd of hyvaa hyvaa doesnt have nearly enough units IT come out for RorO hyvaa is 100 supply down 3rd base of hyvaa is killed RorO is still maxed out
21:00 Roro is pushing into the natural of hyvaa hyvaa ggs! RorO wins and ties it up at 2-2!
On January 12 2013 13:58 PeterDLai wrote: Does anybody else's intermission music speed up and sputter constantly?
Yeah, apparently the people who run the English production don't watch the English production
OK good, just making sure I don't have some sort of computer problem.
It's only the 480 p apparently, i switched to other resolutions and its fine. I think they are actually sending TOO MUCH data on that stream as opposed to too little.
On January 12 2013 13:59 dinosrwar wrote: They're sending Bogus? When did Dear become the ace of STX?
like midway through round 1 I believe when he came out and won the ace match. Maybe he's just confident on Antiga shipyard and they know RorO is Samsung's last hope
On January 12 2013 13:58 PeterDLai wrote: Does anybody else's intermission music speed up and sputter constantly?
Yeah, apparently the people who run the English production don't watch the English production
OK good, just making sure I don't have some sort of computer problem.
It's only the 480 p apparently, i switched to other resolutions and its fine. I think they are actually sending TOO MUCH data on that stream as opposed to too little.
I only get up to 360p.
I guess I have to pony up the cash if I want flawless intermission music...
On January 12 2013 13:58 PeterDLai wrote: Does anybody else's intermission music speed up and sputter constantly?
Yeah, apparently the people who run the English production don't watch the English production
OK good, just making sure I don't have some sort of computer problem.
It's only the 480 p apparently, i switched to other resolutions and its fine. I think they are actually sending TOO MUCH data on that stream as opposed to too little.
I've been watching all night on the 360p and have been having the issues. (Maybe it's a secret plot to get more people to subscribe... where did I leave my tinfoil hat?)
On January 12 2013 14:12 TommyP wrote: I switched to watching the Korean stream and I can say I'm enjoying it a lot more. I just wish I spoke the language
as bilingual i only enjoy korean casts, i'm so thankful of what kespa is doing.
On January 12 2013 14:12 TommyP wrote: I switched to watching the Korean stream and I can say I'm enjoying it a lot more. I just wish I spoke the language
I could not agree with you more. I switched last week and now I'm using whenever possible.
On January 12 2013 14:12 TommyP wrote: I switched to watching the Korean stream and I can say I'm enjoying it a lot more. I just wish I spoke the language
I'm actually partially enjoying the English cast tonight, when usually I'm quite irked by it. Chemistry is developing, IMO.
On January 12 2013 14:12 TommyP wrote: I switched to watching the Korean stream and I can say I'm enjoying it a lot more. I just wish I spoke the language
I'm actually partially enjoying the English cast tonight, when usually I'm quite irked by it. Chemistry is developing, IMO.
They never seem excited though Thats just my opinion anyways
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 5: 2-2 RorO vs Innovation Map: Antiga Shipyard
0:00 RorO spawns in the bottom right Innovation spawns in the top left
2:00 RorO goes hatch first Innovation goes CC first at the top of his ramp to wall rax for Innovation pool for RorO
3:00 2nd rax for Innovation
4:00 double gas for Innovation Innovation lands his natural OC
5:00 factory for Innovation reactor for Innovation double gas for RorO tech lab for Innovation RorO going up to 6 queens
6:00 stim research started for Innovation reactored hellion production started for Innovation 3rd base started for Roro double evo for Roro ling speed for Roro 2 more gas for Roro
7:00 3rd CC started for Innovation in his main 4 queens deny the hellion scout
8:00 Starport for Innovation 2 more gas for Innovation Lair for Roro 1-1 ling upgrades for RorO baneling nest for RorO reactored medivac production started for Innovation
9:00 double ebay for Innovation combat shields started for Innovation Innovation pushing out with his first 2 medivacs 10 banelings morphing for Roro spire started for Roro marines and hellions kill a bunch of active creep tumors before backing to the watchtower
10:00 overlord creep block at Innovation's 3rd baneling speed on the way for RorO siege tank production started for Innovation 1-1 on thew ay for Innovation macro hatch for Roro
On January 12 2013 14:16 Kerwin wrote: I don't know why these queen heavy ZvT builds aren't more popular... It's not obvious to me what the drawback is.
On January 12 2013 14:12 TommyP wrote: I switched to watching the Korean stream and I can say I'm enjoying it a lot more. I just wish I spoke the language
I'm actually partially enjoying the English cast tonight, when usually I'm quite irked by it. Chemistry is developing, IMO.
They never seem excited though Thats just my opinion anyways
I agree, they're quite wishy washy, but I think they're getting better at their casting and analysis (slowly). Feels a little too Playhem-like with the lack of a strong play by play voice who's getting into the game with intensity.
On January 12 2013 14:16 Kerwin wrote: I don't know why these queen heavy ZvT builds aren't more popular... It's not obvious to me what the drawback is.
The terran can play really really greeedy
I guess that explains why he's using that build on this map then... a map where Terran already gets to be greedy.
On January 12 2013 14:16 Kerwin wrote: I don't know why these queen heavy ZvT builds aren't more popular... It's not obvious to me what the drawback is.
Hellion banshee developed to counter 6 queen. Allows 3 CC and insane Terran greed.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 5: 2-2 RorO vs Innovation Map: Antiga Shipyard
0:00 RorO spawns in the bottom right Innovation spawns in the top left
2:00 RorO goes hatch first Innovation goes CC first at the top of his ramp to wall rax for Innovation pool for RorO
3:00 2nd rax for Innovation
4:00 double gas for Innovation Innovation lands his natural OC
5:00 factory for Innovation reactor for Innovation double gas for RorO tech lab for Innovation RorO going up to 6 queens
6:00 stim research started for Innovation reactored hellion production started for Innovation 3rd base started for Roro double evo for Roro ling speed for Roro 2 more gas for Roro
7:00 3rd CC started for Innovation in his main 4 queens deny the hellion scout
8:00 Starport for Innovation 2 more gas for Innovation Lair for Roro 1-1 ling upgrades for RorO baneling nest for RorO reactored medivac production started for Innovation
9:00 double ebay for Innovation combat shields started for Innovation Innovation pushing out with his first 2 medivacs 10 banelings morphing for Roro spire started for Roro marines and hellions kill a bunch of active creep tumors before backing to the watchtower
10:00 overlord creep block at Innovation's 3rd baneling speed on the way for RorO siege tank production started for Innovation 1-1 on thew ay for Innovation macro hatch for Roro
11:00 2-2 started for RorO 2nd factory for Innovation siege mode research started for Innovation +1 flier attack started for RorO Innovation takes the center of the map but then backs off 4th base started for RorO at the 7 o'clock
12:00 mutas coming out for RorO armory on the way for Innovation infestation pit started for RorO
13:00 mutas are flying into the main of Innovation INnovation has 1 turret up that is killed more missile turrets started marines chase the mutas out of his main creep is crossing the half way point of the map 2-2 started for Innovation hive started for RorO +1 vehicle weapons started for Innovation
14:00 pathogen glands started for RorO 5th base started for RorO at the top right main hellions scout the 5th of RorO Creep is blocking all nearby bases of Innovation 4th CC finishes for Innovation near his 3rd
15:00 both players are maxed marines move out to try and clean up some creep but there are too many tumors drop at the 4th of Roro but there are 4 spines to defend
On January 12 2013 14:12 TommyP wrote: I switched to watching the Korean stream and I can say I'm enjoying it a lot more. I just wish I spoke the language
I'm actually partially enjoying the English cast tonight, when usually I'm quite irked by it. Chemistry is developing, IMO.
They never seem excited though Thats just my opinion anyways
I agree, they're quite wishy washy, but I think they're getting better at their casting and analysis (slowly). Feels a little too Playhem-like with the lack of a strong play by play voice who's getting into the game with intensity.
Yea they are improving and thats good they just need that hype-up feel to make the games feel a lil bit more intense
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 5: 2-2 RorO vs Innovation Map: Antiga Shipyard
0:00 RorO spawns in the bottom right Innovation spawns in the top left
2:00 RorO goes hatch first Innovation goes CC first at the top of his ramp to wall rax for Innovation pool for RorO
3:00 2nd rax for Innovation
4:00 double gas for Innovation Innovation lands his natural OC
5:00 factory for Innovation reactor for Innovation double gas for RorO tech lab for Innovation RorO going up to 6 queens
6:00 stim research started for Innovation reactored hellion production started for Innovation 3rd base started for Roro double evo for Roro ling speed for Roro 2 more gas for Roro
7:00 3rd CC started for Innovation in his main 4 queens deny the hellion scout
8:00 Starport for Innovation 2 more gas for Innovation Lair for Roro 1-1 ling upgrades for RorO baneling nest for RorO reactored medivac production started for Innovation
9:00 double ebay for Innovation combat shields started for Innovation Innovation pushing out with his first 2 medivacs 10 banelings morphing for Roro spire started for Roro marines and hellions kill a bunch of active creep tumors before backing to the watchtower
10:00 overlord creep block at Innovation's 3rd baneling speed on the way for RorO siege tank production started for Innovation 1-1 on thew ay for Innovation macro hatch for Roro
11:00 2-2 started for RorO 2nd factory for Innovation siege mode research started for Innovation +1 flier attack started for RorO Innovation takes the center of the map but then backs off 4th base started for RorO at the 7 o'clock
12:00 mutas coming out for RorO armory on the way for Innovation infestation pit started for RorO
13:00 mutas are flying into the main of Innovation INnovation has 1 turret up that is killed more missile turrets started marines chase the mutas out of his main creep is crossing the half way point of the map 2-2 started for Innovation hive started for RorO +1 vehicle weapons started for Innovation
14:00 pathogen glands started for RorO 5th base started for RorO at the top right main hellions scout the 5th of RorO Creep is blocking all nearby bases of Innovation 4th CC finishes for Innovation near his 3rd
15:00 both players are maxed marines move out to try and clean up some creep but there are too many tumors drop at the 4th of Roro but there are 4 spines to defend
16:00 drop cleaned up at Roro's 4th Innovation is trying to take the top middle base Greater spire on the way for Roro Ultralisk cavern started for RorO 3-3 started for Roro Bogus is cleaning up the creep on the high ground in the center
17:00 3-3 started for innovation +1 ship weapons started for Innovation Corruptors coming out for RorO ling runby from RorO is cleaned up for minimal damage 2 more bases started in the bottom left for RorO
18:00 RorO gets too close to Innovation's army and takes some big siege tank hits marine force takes out the 4th of RorO Brood lords are out +1 air armor started for RorO 2nd spire on the way for RorO RorO's mutas try to kill Innovation's floating 4th another base started for RorO in the top right natural
19:00 chitinous plating started for RorO thors coming out for Innovation more brood lords morphing for RorO quad viking production started for Innovation drop at the top right natural kills the hatchery
20:00 Creep blocks a CC at the top right 3rd RorO putting up lots of spines at all of his bases brood lords start hitting the tanks of Innovation Innovation's marines were out of position Innovation kills another hatch at RorO's former 4th Innovation moves into the bottom right and gets traped corruptors and infestors kill all of Innovation's medivacs
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 5: 2-2 RorO vs Innovation Map: Antiga Shipyard
0:00 RorO spawns in the bottom right Innovation spawns in the top left
2:00 RorO goes hatch first Innovation goes CC first at the top of his ramp to wall rax for Innovation pool for RorO
3:00 2nd rax for Innovation
4:00 double gas for Innovation Innovation lands his natural OC
5:00 factory for Innovation reactor for Innovation double gas for RorO tech lab for Innovation RorO going up to 6 queens
6:00 stim research started for Innovation reactored hellion production started for Innovation 3rd base started for Roro double evo for Roro ling speed for Roro 2 more gas for Roro
7:00 3rd CC started for Innovation in his main 4 queens deny the hellion scout
8:00 Starport for Innovation 2 more gas for Innovation Lair for Roro 1-1 ling upgrades for RorO baneling nest for RorO reactored medivac production started for Innovation
9:00 double ebay for Innovation combat shields started for Innovation Innovation pushing out with his first 2 medivacs 10 banelings morphing for Roro spire started for Roro marines and hellions kill a bunch of active creep tumors before backing to the watchtower
10:00 overlord creep block at Innovation's 3rd baneling speed on the way for RorO siege tank production started for Innovation 1-1 on thew ay for Innovation macro hatch for Roro
11:00 2-2 started for RorO 2nd factory for Innovation siege mode research started for Innovation +1 flier attack started for RorO Innovation takes the center of the map but then backs off 4th base started for RorO at the 7 o'clock
12:00 mutas coming out for RorO armory on the way for Innovation infestation pit started for RorO
13:00 mutas are flying into the main of Innovation INnovation has 1 turret up that is killed more missile turrets started marines chase the mutas out of his main creep is crossing the half way point of the map 2-2 started for Innovation hive started for RorO +1 vehicle weapons started for Innovation
14:00 pathogen glands started for RorO 5th base started for RorO at the top right main hellions scout the 5th of RorO Creep is blocking all nearby bases of Innovation 4th CC finishes for Innovation near his 3rd
15:00 both players are maxed marines move out to try and clean up some creep but there are too many tumors drop at the 4th of Roro but there are 4 spines to defend
16:00 drop cleaned up at Roro's 4th Innovation is trying to take the top middle base Greater spire on the way for Roro Ultralisk cavern started for RorO 3-3 started for Roro Bogus is cleaning up the creep on the high ground in the center
17:00 3-3 started for innovation +1 ship weapons started for Innovation Corruptors coming out for RorO ling runby from RorO is cleaned up for minimal damage 2 more bases started in the bottom left for RorO
18:00 RorO gets too close to Innovation's army and takes some big siege tank hits marine force takes out the 4th of RorO Brood lords are out +1 air armor started for RorO 2nd spire on the way for RorO RorO's mutas try to kill Innovation's floating 4th another base started for RorO in the top right natural
19:00 chitinous plating started for RorO thors coming out for Innovation more brood lords morphing for RorO quad viking production started for Innovation drop at the top right natural kills the hatchery
20:00 Creep blocks a CC at the top right 3rd RorO putting up lots of spines at all of his bases brood lords start hitting the tanks of Innovation Innovation's marines were out of position Innovation kills another hatch at RorO's former 4th Innovation moves into the bottom right and gets traped corruptors and infestors kill all of Innovation's medivacs
21:00 Innovation tries to kill the hatch in the bottom left main Innovation's army is cleaned up Brood lords start sieging Innovation's 3rd
22:00 2-2 air upgrades started for RorO the first ultras are out on the map vikings are battling the corruptors Roro kills both CCs at Innovation's 3rd Roro is taking the center base and retaking his 4th RorO has 8 bases PF morphing at innovation's 4th in the top right 3rd
23:00 Innovation pushing into the top right of the map Innovation trying to take his center base RorO loses another base in the top right main Roro kills the central cc RorO starts attacking the PF in the top right
24:00 both armies engage banelings get good hits on marines Ultras kill the PF corruptors and fungals clear up the vikings Innovation loses his army Innovation ggs! RorO wins and puts Samsung KHAN ahead 3-2!
I remember Idra stream where terran didnt harass him at all and Idra just started bming him with messages for wasting 20 mins of his time. This game felt very similar to that.
On January 12 2013 14:22 geokilla wrote: Korean stream is so laggy...
Who said Antiga is Terran favoured?
This gets brought up every day. Morons, essentially.
Terran has a 46.5% winrate vs Z on the map since June. And 45.1% vs P.
because of all ins
Regardless of anything.. just because something favors a race, doesn't mean the unfavored race loses 100% of games on that map.
I remember watching Idra's stream once, he played vs Kami (think that's his name? terran) on entombed. Spawns were horizontal, Idra won anyway. It would be stupid of me to then post "who said this spawn position was terran favored"
On January 12 2013 14:22 geokilla wrote: Korean stream is so laggy...
Who said Antiga is Terran favoured?
This gets brought up every day. Morons, essentially.
Terran has a 46.5% winrate vs Z on the map since June. And 45.1% vs P.
Stats don't tell the whole story... I would say it's a terran focused map. In other words, the way Terran can play on this map effects all other strats. When this map first came out Terran dominated and now it's more even because of Z and P adapting. I'd still say it's a balanced map though.
i've boiled it down: 6 queens, constant creep 2 gases at six minutes 3rd Hatch at seven 2 Evos start with ling speed Then lair and banes nest, produce lings at around 60 drones for banes and defense, produce 8 mutas to fool the terran into thinking 2/2 bane timing is coming expand to both 4th and 5th positions at the same time while putting down infestation pit tech to broods and defend the terran timing with spines and banes.
Why would ANYBODY recommend this game.. There's literally 15 minutes of absolutely nothing, and might be Bogus's worst play of the season.
we recommend based on the game, not based on how well TheShimmy's favorite player does it wasn't great, but it was a decent game. And seeing mutas always makes me recommend it :D
On January 12 2013 14:30 Bam Lee wrote: omfg this matchup....samsung khan vs stx....is just a mess for my fantasy team -_- if trap wins i lose points, if roro wins i lose points -_-
I lose less points if STX wins than if KHAN wins so hopefully Trap pulls it off. Unfortunately I don't think he's that great and RorO should be able to beat him
Why would ANYBODY recommend this game.. There's literally 15 minutes of absolutely nothing, and might be Bogus's worst play of the season.
we recommend based on the game, not based on how well TheShimmy's favorite player does it wasn't great, but it was a decent game. And seeing mutas always makes me recommend it :D
I recommend games STX players lose all the time. That was just not an enthralling game to me. However, Trap VS Roro should be tight.
Why would ANYBODY recommend this game.. There's literally 15 minutes of absolutely nothing, and might be Bogus's worst play of the season.
we recommend based on the game, not based on how well TheShimmy's favorite player does it wasn't great, but it was a decent game. And seeing mutas always makes me recommend it :D
I recommend games STX players lose all the time. That was just not an enthralling game to me. However, Trap VS Roro should be tight.
Even though Bogus played bad, Roro played very well though. Just from zerg's point of view, it is worth watching to learn something.
Btw, confused why Bogus isn't doing great in proleague right now, he's very talented.
Why would ANYBODY recommend this game.. There's literally 15 minutes of absolutely nothing, and might be Bogus's worst play of the season.
we recommend based on the game, not based on how well TheShimmy's favorite player does it wasn't great, but it was a decent game. And seeing mutas always makes me recommend it :D
I recommend games STX players lose all the time. That was just not an enthralling game to me. However, Trap VS Roro should be tight.
Even though Bogus played bad, Roro played very well though. Just from zerg's point of view, it is worth watching to learn something.
Btw, confused why Bogus isn't doing great in proleague right now, he's very talented.
Maybe he's a player who thrive more in BOX format? Or his style can be easily sniped.
i found this gem while i was reminiscent of TheMarine (korean caster)
watch later if you have time? 3v3 hunters bw GO vs IS BoxeR (3' orange terran), YellOw (11' teal protoss), NaDa (5' red terran) vs TheMarine (9' purple protoss), ChRh (7' yellow terran), fOru (6' brown protoss)
watch later if you have time? 3v3 hunters bw GO vs IS boxer (3' orange terran), yellow (11' teal protoss), nada (5' red terran) vs themarine (9' purple protoss), chrh (7' yellow terran), foru (6' brown protoss)
Boxer, Nada, and Yellow all together in a 3v3? WTF?
Why would ANYBODY recommend this game.. There's literally 15 minutes of absolutely nothing, and might be Bogus's worst play of the season.
we recommend based on the game, not based on how well TheShimmy's favorite player does it wasn't great, but it was a decent game. And seeing mutas always makes me recommend it :D
I recommend games STX players lose all the time. That was just not an enthralling game to me. However, Trap VS Roro should be tight.
Even though Bogus played bad, Roro played very well though. Just from zerg's point of view, it is worth watching to learn something.
Btw, confused why Bogus isn't doing great in proleague right now, he's very talented.
Maybe he's a player who thrive more in BOX format? Or his style can be easily sniped.
he's not doing really badly, he did take out soo and flash recently. losing 2-3 games here and there is to be expected
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 6: 3-2 RorO vs Trap Map: Entombed Valley
0:00 RorO spawns in the top left Trap spawns in the bottom right
1:40 forge first for Trap
2:00 pool first for RorO hatch for RorO
3:00 Nexus for Trap gateway for Trap cannon for Trap double gas for Trap
4:00 3rd base for RorO Cybernetics core for Trap zealot for Trap
5:00 sentry for Trap
6:00 3rd gas for Trap stargate for Trap 4th gas for Trap RorO on 2 gas now +1 attack started for Trap phoenix production started for Trap
7:00 Lair started for RorO 2 more gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO ling speed for RorO Roach warren for RorO 3 more gates for Trap
8:00 +1 range attack started for RorO roro started for Trap macro hatch for RorO Roach production started for RorO Roach speed started for RorO spores going up for RorO
9:00 phoenixes harassing the overlords of RorO Robotics Bay started for Trap a few drones are picked off observer for Trap +1 armor started for Trap
10:00 immortal production started for Trap RorO checks for a 3rd base but sees there isnt one yet infestation pit started for RorO Colossus production and extended thermal lance started for Trap zealot runby to RorO's 3rd is intercepted and killed by roaches phoenixes fly in and kill a few more drones
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 6: 3-2 RorO vs Trap Map: Entombed Valley
0:00 RorO spawns in the top left Trap spawns in the bottom right
1:40 forge first for Trap
2:00 pool first for RorO hatch for RorO
3:00 Nexus for Trap gateway for Trap cannon for Trap double gas for Trap
4:00 3rd base for RorO Cybernetics core for Trap zealot for Trap
5:00 sentry for Trap
6:00 3rd gas for Trap stargate for Trap 4th gas for Trap RorO on 2 gas now +1 attack started for Trap phoenix production started for Trap
7:00 Lair started for RorO 2 more gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO ling speed for RorO Roach warren for RorO 3 more gates for Trap
8:00 +1 range attack started for RorO roro started for Trap macro hatch for RorO Roach production started for RorO Roach speed started for RorO spores going up for RorO
9:00 phoenixes harassing the overlords of RorO Robotics Bay started for Trap a few drones are picked off observer for Trap +1 armor started for Trap
10:00 immortal production started for Trap RorO checks for a 3rd base but sees there isnt one yet infestation pit started for RorO Colossus production and extended thermal lance started for Trap zealot runby to RorO's 3rd is intercepted and killed by roaches phoenixes fly in and kill a few more drones
11:00 2nd evo chamber for RorO 2 more gates for Trap pathogen glands for RorO 1-1 ling upgrades started for RorO Twilight council started for Trap
12:00 3rd base started for Trap infestor production started for RorO 4th base started for RorO lings take out Trap's proxy pylon
13:00 Blink research started for Trap Hive started for RorO Spire started for RorO Trap has now killed 16 drones with his phoenixes 3 more gates for Trap warp prism for Trap +2 attack on the way for Trap
14:00 infestors kill the observer with fungal Trap is moving out on the map at 150 supply Trap moving towards Roro's 4th
15:00 Roro tries to swing around and kill the forward pylon but Trap defends it 4th of RorO is killed 12 corruptors are coming out spines are starting for RorO Greater spire started for RorO Roro kills the forward pylons but there is a warp prism with the army
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 6: 3-2 RorO vs Trap Map: Entombed Valley
0:00 RorO spawns in the top left Trap spawns in the bottom right
1:40 forge first for Trap
2:00 pool first for RorO hatch for RorO
3:00 Nexus for Trap gateway for Trap cannon for Trap double gas for Trap
4:00 3rd base for RorO Cybernetics core for Trap zealot for Trap
5:00 sentry for Trap
6:00 3rd gas for Trap stargate for Trap 4th gas for Trap RorO on 2 gas now +1 attack started for Trap phoenix production started for Trap
7:00 Lair started for RorO 2 more gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO ling speed for RorO Roach warren for RorO 3 more gates for Trap
8:00 +1 range attack started for RorO roro started for Trap macro hatch for RorO Roach production started for RorO Roach speed started for RorO spores going up for RorO
9:00 phoenixes harassing the overlords of RorO Robotics Bay started for Trap a few drones are picked off observer for Trap +1 armor started for Trap
10:00 immortal production started for Trap RorO checks for a 3rd base but sees there isnt one yet infestation pit started for RorO Colossus production and extended thermal lance started for Trap zealot runby to RorO's 3rd is intercepted and killed by roaches phoenixes fly in and kill a few more drones
11:00 2nd evo chamber for RorO 2 more gates for Trap pathogen glands for RorO 1-1 ling upgrades started for RorO Twilight council started for Trap
12:00 3rd base started for Trap infestor production started for RorO 4th base started for RorO lings take out Trap's proxy pylon
13:00 Blink research started for Trap Hive started for RorO Spire started for RorO Trap has now killed 16 drones with his phoenixes 3 more gates for Trap warp prism for Trap +2 attack on the way for Trap
14:00 infestors kill the observer with fungal Trap is moving out on the map at 150 supply Trap moving towards Roro's 4th
15:00 Roro tries to swing around and kill the forward pylon but Trap defends it 4th of RorO is killed 12 corruptors are coming out spines are starting for RorO Greater spire started for RorO Roro kills the forward pylons but there is a warp prism with the army
16:00 infestors and corruptors are holding Trap out of the 3rd base Trap decides to change his point of attack Colossi start harassing the natural the warp prism is killed by the corruptors corruptors fly in and kill the colossi 1 falls but the other 2 escape Trap now has no forward warp in point
17:00 4th base restarted for RorO Brood lords begin morphing for RorO lots of spines started for RorO +1 air attack started for RorO +3 attack started for Trap charge started for Trap 4th base started for Trap 2 more gates for Trap
18:00 Fleet Beacon started for Trap Trap denies RorO's 4th again with his main army templar archives for Trap all the phoenixes are caught by fungal and killed by corruptors observer speed for Trap
19:00 warp prism tries to harass in the main but it's caught by fungals and killed RorO actually forgets the warp prism with 8 health zealots are warped into RorO's main 2 phoenixes actually escaped warp prism speed for Trap Trap pushing into RorO's 4th again
20:00 +2 armor started for Trap armies battle at RorO's 4th brood lords are pushing back the protoss army burrow research on the way for RorO mothership started for Trap 2nd robo for Trap
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 6: 3-2 RorO vs Trap Map: Entombed Valley
0:00 RorO spawns in the top left Trap spawns in the bottom right
1:40 forge first for Trap
2:00 pool first for RorO hatch for RorO
3:00 Nexus for Trap gateway for Trap cannon for Trap double gas for Trap
4:00 3rd base for RorO Cybernetics core for Trap zealot for Trap
5:00 sentry for Trap
6:00 3rd gas for Trap stargate for Trap 4th gas for Trap RorO on 2 gas now +1 attack started for Trap phoenix production started for Trap
7:00 Lair started for RorO 2 more gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO ling speed for RorO Roach warren for RorO 3 more gates for Trap
8:00 +1 range attack started for RorO roro started for Trap macro hatch for RorO Roach production started for RorO Roach speed started for RorO spores going up for RorO
9:00 phoenixes harassing the overlords of RorO Robotics Bay started for Trap a few drones are picked off observer for Trap +1 armor started for Trap
10:00 immortal production started for Trap RorO checks for a 3rd base but sees there isnt one yet infestation pit started for RorO Colossus production and extended thermal lance started for Trap zealot runby to RorO's 3rd is intercepted and killed by roaches phoenixes fly in and kill a few more drones
11:00 2nd evo chamber for RorO 2 more gates for Trap pathogen glands for RorO 1-1 ling upgrades started for RorO Twilight council started for Trap
12:00 3rd base started for Trap infestor production started for RorO 4th base started for RorO lings take out Trap's proxy pylon
13:00 Blink research started for Trap Hive started for RorO Spire started for RorO Trap has now killed 16 drones with his phoenixes 3 more gates for Trap warp prism for Trap +2 attack on the way for Trap
14:00 infestors kill the observer with fungal Trap is moving out on the map at 150 supply Trap moving towards Roro's 4th
15:00 Roro tries to swing around and kill the forward pylon but Trap defends it 4th of RorO is killed 12 corruptors are coming out spines are starting for RorO Greater spire started for RorO Roro kills the forward pylons but there is a warp prism with the army
16:00 infestors and corruptors are holding Trap out of the 3rd base Trap decides to change his point of attack Colossi start harassing the natural the warp prism is killed by the corruptors corruptors fly in and kill the colossi 1 falls but the other 2 escape Trap now has no forward warp in point
17:00 4th base restarted for RorO Brood lords begin morphing for RorO lots of spines started for RorO +1 air attack started for RorO +3 attack started for Trap charge started for Trap 4th base started for Trap 2 more gates for Trap
18:00 Fleet Beacon started for Trap Trap denies RorO's 4th again with his main army templar archives for Trap all the phoenixes are caught by fungal and killed by corruptors observer speed for Trap
19:00 warp prism tries to harass in the main but it's caught by fungals and killed RorO actually forgets the warp prism with 8 health zealots are warped into RorO's main 2 phoenixes actually escaped warp prism speed for Trap Trap pushing into RorO's 4th again
20:00 +2 armor started for Trap armies battle at RorO's 4th brood lords are pushing back the protoss army burrow research on the way for RorO mothership started for Trap 2nd robo for Trap
21:00 5th base started for Trap archons on the map for Trap +2 carapace started for RorO 15 brood lords out for RorO now warp prism flies into the main of RorO 5th base started for RorO zealot drop in RorO's main roaches are in position and kill the zealots
22:00 Trap going for a smal attack at RorO's 5th and 4th the attack at the 4th is pushed back 5th base of RorO is killed with no cancel RorO scouts the 5th of Trap
23:00 +2 melee started for Roro +2 air attack started for RorO 2nd spire finishes for RorO Trap is moving across the map with his mothership army
24:00 Trap starts cleaning up some of the creep RorO making more spines Trap trying to attack at the 4th again but there are a ton of spines Warp prism flying into the main
25:00 large zealot warp in in Roro's main zealots going for the spawning pool and the greater spire both structures fall there is no static defense in the main infestors come back to clean up the zealots Trap attacks at the 4th again storm denies positioning of the corruptors mothership moves forward and vortexes all the corruptors and half the brood lords ITs are blocking the path to the vortex
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 6: 3-2 RorO vs Trap Map: Entombed Valley
0:00 RorO spawns in the top left Trap spawns in the bottom right
1:40 forge first for Trap
2:00 pool first for RorO hatch for RorO
3:00 Nexus for Trap gateway for Trap cannon for Trap double gas for Trap
4:00 3rd base for RorO Cybernetics core for Trap zealot for Trap
5:00 sentry for Trap
6:00 3rd gas for Trap stargate for Trap 4th gas for Trap RorO on 2 gas now +1 attack started for Trap phoenix production started for Trap
7:00 Lair started for RorO 2 more gas for RorO evo chamber for RorO ling speed for RorO Roach warren for RorO 3 more gates for Trap
8:00 +1 range attack started for RorO roro started for Trap macro hatch for RorO Roach production started for RorO Roach speed started for RorO spores going up for RorO
9:00 phoenixes harassing the overlords of RorO Robotics Bay started for Trap a few drones are picked off observer for Trap +1 armor started for Trap
10:00 immortal production started for Trap RorO checks for a 3rd base but sees there isnt one yet infestation pit started for RorO Colossus production and extended thermal lance started for Trap zealot runby to RorO's 3rd is intercepted and killed by roaches phoenixes fly in and kill a few more drones
11:00 2nd evo chamber for RorO 2 more gates for Trap pathogen glands for RorO 1-1 ling upgrades started for RorO Twilight council started for Trap
12:00 3rd base started for Trap infestor production started for RorO 4th base started for RorO lings take out Trap's proxy pylon
13:00 Blink research started for Trap Hive started for RorO Spire started for RorO Trap has now killed 16 drones with his phoenixes 3 more gates for Trap warp prism for Trap +2 attack on the way for Trap
14:00 infestors kill the observer with fungal Trap is moving out on the map at 150 supply Trap moving towards Roro's 4th
15:00 Roro tries to swing around and kill the forward pylon but Trap defends it 4th of RorO is killed 12 corruptors are coming out spines are starting for RorO Greater spire started for RorO Roro kills the forward pylons but there is a warp prism with the army
16:00 infestors and corruptors are holding Trap out of the 3rd base Trap decides to change his point of attack Colossi start harassing the natural the warp prism is killed by the corruptors corruptors fly in and kill the colossi 1 falls but the other 2 escape Trap now has no forward warp in point
17:00 4th base restarted for RorO Brood lords begin morphing for RorO lots of spines started for RorO +1 air attack started for RorO +3 attack started for Trap charge started for Trap 4th base started for Trap 2 more gates for Trap
18:00 Fleet Beacon started for Trap Trap denies RorO's 4th again with his main army templar archives for Trap all the phoenixes are caught by fungal and killed by corruptors observer speed for Trap
19:00 warp prism tries to harass in the main but it's caught by fungals and killed RorO actually forgets the warp prism with 8 health zealots are warped into RorO's main 2 phoenixes actually escaped warp prism speed for Trap Trap pushing into RorO's 4th again
20:00 +2 armor started for Trap armies battle at RorO's 4th brood lords are pushing back the protoss army burrow research on the way for RorO mothership started for Trap 2nd robo for Trap
21:00 5th base started for Trap archons on the map for Trap +2 carapace started for RorO 15 brood lords out for RorO now warp prism flies into the main of RorO 5th base started for RorO zealot drop in RorO's main roaches are in position and kill the zealots
22:00 Trap going for a smal attack at RorO's 5th and 4th the attack at the 4th is pushed back 5th base of RorO is killed with no cancel RorO scouts the 5th of Trap
23:00 +2 melee started for Roro +2 air attack started for RorO 2nd spire finishes for RorO Trap is moving across the map with his mothership army
24:00 Trap starts cleaning up some of the creep RorO making more spines Trap trying to attack at the 4th again but there are a ton of spines Warp prism flying into the main
25:00 large zealot warp in in Roro's main zealots going for the spawning pool and the greater spire both structures fall there is no static defense in the main infestors come back to clean up the zealots Trap attacks at the 4th again storm denies positioning of the corruptors mothership moves forward and vortexes all the corruptors and half the brood lords ITs are blocking the path to the vortex
26:00 Roro protects all of his vortexed units +3 melee and +2 range attack started for Trap Roro's 4th is killed vortex on half of the army again
27:00 stalkers blink under the brood lords and kill them all infestors are out of energy Trap is killing RorO's army Roro ggs! Trap ties it up 3-3!
On January 12 2013 14:52 Severedevil wrote: Why risk your Phoenixes to kill 50 mineral drones when there are undefended Roaches?
I don't understand. It's one lift/kill for both, and Roaches cost substantially more...
Roaches die very slowly to phoenixes
True, but it's an unprotected target. The Roaches were in the middle of the map with no AA; at the very least, Trap gets a few Roaches for no risk whatsoever.
It's not as if his Phoenixes were killing drones faster than they could have killed Roaches. Most of their time was spent flying around looking for openings.
On January 12 2013 15:03 SamsungStar wrote: I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but SC2 is really damn boring to watch for me now. Even when I'm watching Khan ;_;. Sigh...
On January 12 2013 15:01 tuho12345 wrote: holy shit finally a protoss that can beat a zerg's BL, infestors
it helps when its 27 minutes into the game and he hasnt even tried for a 5th.
But to Trap's credit, he was the one responsible for that. I'm only convinced that works on maps like Antiga and Entombed with a close three bases and a kind of out of the way fourth that you can continually deny.
On January 12 2013 15:03 SamsungStar wrote: I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but SC2 is really damn boring to watch for me now. Even when I'm watching Khan ;_;. Sigh...
On January 12 2013 15:01 tuho12345 wrote: holy shit finally a protoss that can beat a zerg's BL, infestors
it helps when its 27 minutes into the game and he hasnt even tried for a 5th.
But to Trap's credit, he was the one responsible for that. I'm only convinced that works on maps like Antiga and Entombed with a close three bases and a kind of out of the way fourth that you can continually deny.
that is true, he did kill/deny his 4th many times.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 7: 3-3 Shine vs Trap Map: Neo Caldeum
0:00 Shine spawns in the bottom left Trap spawns in the top right
1:00 10 pool for Shine fast probe scout from Trap Trap scouts the 10 pool gateway first for Trap
2:00 lings started for Shine double gas for Trap zealot for Trap
3:00 pylon block in Shine's natural 2nd zealot for Trap Cybernetics core for Trap lings arrive at Trap's base probes are pulled to help defend 2nd zealot is out
4:00 3rd zealot for Trap gas for Shine Shine kills the pylon in his natural hatch for Shine
5:00 stalker for Trap 2 more gates for Trap ling speed started for Shine
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 7: 3-3 Shine vs Trap Map: Neo Caldeum
0:00 Shine spawns in the bottom left Trap spawns in the top right
1:00 10 pool for Shine fast probe scout from Trap Trap scouts the 10 pool gateway first for Trap
2:00 lings started for Shine double gas for Trap zealot for Trap
3:00 pylon block in Shine's natural 2nd zealot for Trap Cybernetics core for Trap lings arrive at Trap's base probes are pulled to help defend 2nd zealot is out
4:00 3rd zealot for Trap gas for Shine Shine kills the pylon in his natural hatch for Shine
5:00 stalker for Trap 2 more gates for Trap ling speed started for Shine
6:00 a few lings slip into Trap's base and get a full scout Trap loses his zealots to ling on the map 20 more lings coming out for Trap sentry on the way for Shine Nexus started for Trap
7:00 lings run into the natural of Trap and start hitting the nexus Trap has to cancel his nexus Nexus started again in the natural of Trap lings come back in the natural but Shine is hiding his total count stargate for Trap all the lings run into the natural as speed finishes forcefields block the lings from hitting units
8:00 Trap has to cancel his nexus again forge started for Trap Shine is using the main entrance and neutral assimilator entrance to harass the natural Shine now breaking down the rocks into Trap's natural void ray on the way for Trap 3rd base for Shine
9:00 Natural nexus restarted again for Trap gas for Shine cannon in the natural started for Trap Shine finishes off the rocks before the void ray chases them away +1 attack started for Trap 2nd void ray on the way for Trap
10:00 Void ray starts killing overlords on the map evo chamber started for Shine Roach warren started for Shine phoenix production started for Trap Shine goes back into the natural again but Trap has enough units and cannons to force him back void ray flies into Shine's natural but a queen chases it away
I remember one time in silver league (my first week playing on ladder) a zerg broke down the rocks on the old shakuras.... Since then I've ALWAYS had vision of any rocks near my base. I never understand when a pro doesn't have any rock vision...
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 7: 3-3 Shine vs Trap Map: Neo Caldeum
0:00 Shine spawns in the bottom left Trap spawns in the top right
1:00 10 pool for Shine fast probe scout from Trap Trap scouts the 10 pool gateway first for Trap
2:00 lings started for Shine double gas for Trap zealot for Trap
3:00 pylon block in Shine's natural 2nd zealot for Trap Cybernetics core for Trap lings arrive at Trap's base probes are pulled to help defend 2nd zealot is out
4:00 3rd zealot for Trap gas for Shine Shine kills the pylon in his natural hatch for Shine
5:00 stalker for Trap 2 more gates for Trap ling speed started for Shine
6:00 a few lings slip into Trap's base and get a full scout Trap loses his zealots to ling on the map 20 more lings coming out for Trap sentry on the way for Shine Nexus started for Trap
7:00 lings run into the natural of Trap and start hitting the nexus Trap has to cancel his nexus Nexus started again in the natural of Trap lings come back in the natural but Shine is hiding his total count stargate for Trap all the lings run into the natural as speed finishes forcefields block the lings from hitting units
8:00 Trap has to cancel his nexus again forge started for Trap Shine is using the main entrance and neutral assimilator entrance to harass the natural Shine now breaking down the rocks into Trap's natural void ray on the way for Trap 3rd base for Shine
9:00 Natural nexus restarted again for Trap gas for Shine cannon in the natural started for Trap Shine finishes off the rocks before the void ray chases them away +1 attack started for Trap 2nd void ray on the way for Trap
10:00 Void ray starts killing overlords on the map evo chamber started for Shine Roach warren started for Shine phoenix production started for Trap Shine goes back into the natural again but Trap has enough units and cannons to force him back void ray flies into Shine's natural but a queen chases it away
11:00 spores going up for Shine in his bases Lair on the way for Shine +1 range attack started for Shine robo started for trap
12:00 phoenix harass is denied by queens and spores Roach speed started for Shine shine on 6 gas now Robotics bay started for Trap Twilight council started for Trap infestation pit and spire started for Shine
13:00 observer for Trap 2 more gates for Trap blink research started for Trap +2 attack started for Trap macro hatch started for Shine Colossus production started for Trap Extended thermal lance research started for Trap
14:00 Trap walls off his natural 3rd base started for Trap 14 mutas on the way for Shine +1 melee started for Shine
15:00 mutas are spotted by the observer mutas kill one of the void rays 4 more mutas on hte way 4th base started for Shine Shine goes in for a ling muta roach attack at the 3rd of Trap but forcefields cause him to back off Mutas are looking for an opening cannons going down for Trap at his bases stalkers and phoenixes beat back the mutas for now
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 7: 3-3 Shine vs Trap Map: Neo Caldeum
0:00 Shine spawns in the bottom left Trap spawns in the top right
1:00 10 pool for Shine fast probe scout from Trap Trap scouts the 10 pool gateway first for Trap
2:00 lings started for Shine double gas for Trap zealot for Trap
3:00 pylon block in Shine's natural 2nd zealot for Trap Cybernetics core for Trap lings arrive at Trap's base probes are pulled to help defend 2nd zealot is out
4:00 3rd zealot for Trap gas for Shine Shine kills the pylon in his natural hatch for Shine
5:00 stalker for Trap 2 more gates for Trap ling speed started for Shine
6:00 a few lings slip into Trap's base and get a full scout Trap loses his zealots to ling on the map 20 more lings coming out for Trap sentry on the way for Shine Nexus started for Trap
7:00 lings run into the natural of Trap and start hitting the nexus Trap has to cancel his nexus Nexus started again in the natural of Trap lings come back in the natural but Shine is hiding his total count stargate for Trap all the lings run into the natural as speed finishes forcefields block the lings from hitting units
8:00 Trap has to cancel his nexus again forge started for Trap Shine is using the main entrance and neutral assimilator entrance to harass the natural Shine now breaking down the rocks into Trap's natural void ray on the way for Trap 3rd base for Shine
9:00 Natural nexus restarted again for Trap gas for Shine cannon in the natural started for Trap Shine finishes off the rocks before the void ray chases them away +1 attack started for Trap 2nd void ray on the way for Trap
10:00 Void ray starts killing overlords on the map evo chamber started for Shine Roach warren started for Shine phoenix production started for Trap Shine goes back into the natural again but Trap has enough units and cannons to force him back void ray flies into Shine's natural but a queen chases it away
11:00 spores going up for Shine in his bases Lair on the way for Shine +1 range attack started for Shine robo started for trap
12:00 phoenix harass is denied by queens and spores Roach speed started for Shine shine on 6 gas now Robotics bay started for Trap Twilight council started for Trap infestation pit and spire started for Shine
13:00 observer for Trap 2 more gates for Trap blink research started for Trap +2 attack started for Trap macro hatch started for Shine Colossus production started for Trap Extended thermal lance research started for Trap
14:00 Trap walls off his natural 3rd base started for Trap 14 mutas on the way for Shine +1 melee started for Shine
15:00 mutas are spotted by the observer mutas kill one of the void rays 4 more mutas on hte way 4th base started for Shine Shine goes in for a ling muta roach attack at the 3rd of Trap but forcefields cause him to back off Mutas are looking for an opening cannons going down for Trap at his bases stalkers and phoenixes beat back the mutas for now
16:00 Shine adding on more and more mutas +1 air attack started for Shine +3 attack for Trap Shine goes in for an attack at the 3rd of Trap Trap tries to save it with forcefields but mutas kill the nexus Trap is moving out on the map
17:00 mutas counterattack into the natural of Trap but there are enough stalkers that he has to back off Trap sends his full army home 24 mutas are out now for Shine
18:00 3rd base restarted for Trap 5th base started for Shine Spine starting 12 spines in the attack paths 6th base started for Shine Templar archives started for Trap Shien going for an attack in the natural of Trap Trap's army is too big and Shine has to back off
19:00 Shine still adding in more mutas +2 melee started for Shine +2 flier attack started for Shine storm started for Trap 39 mutas are out for Shine +1 armor started for Trap
20:00 HTs on the map now mutas fly into the main and target fire the templar archives archives is killed before storm ling roach attack at the 3rd of Trap cybernetics core is almost sniped Trap restarts his cybercore and templar archives there are too many mutas and they are killing stalkers
Mutalisks... Yawn. Not sure why this style died off. Protoss needs insane multitask just to defend 3 bases. Zerg goes up to 12 gas infestor broodlords without a fight. If he gets attacked, he wins a base race.
Of course, apparently he just wants more mutas. lol shine.
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 7: 3-3 Shine vs Trap Map: Neo Caldeum
0:00 Shine spawns in the bottom left Trap spawns in the top right
1:00 10 pool for Shine fast probe scout from Trap Trap scouts the 10 pool gateway first for Trap
2:00 lings started for Shine double gas for Trap zealot for Trap
3:00 pylon block in Shine's natural 2nd zealot for Trap Cybernetics core for Trap lings arrive at Trap's base probes are pulled to help defend 2nd zealot is out
4:00 3rd zealot for Trap gas for Shine Shine kills the pylon in his natural hatch for Shine
5:00 stalker for Trap 2 more gates for Trap ling speed started for Shine
6:00 a few lings slip into Trap's base and get a full scout Trap loses his zealots to ling on the map 20 more lings coming out for Trap sentry on the way for Shine Nexus started for Trap
7:00 lings run into the natural of Trap and start hitting the nexus Trap has to cancel his nexus Nexus started again in the natural of Trap lings come back in the natural but Shine is hiding his total count stargate for Trap all the lings run into the natural as speed finishes forcefields block the lings from hitting units
8:00 Trap has to cancel his nexus again forge started for Trap Shine is using the main entrance and neutral assimilator entrance to harass the natural Shine now breaking down the rocks into Trap's natural void ray on the way for Trap 3rd base for Shine
9:00 Natural nexus restarted again for Trap gas for Shine cannon in the natural started for Trap Shine finishes off the rocks before the void ray chases them away +1 attack started for Trap 2nd void ray on the way for Trap
10:00 Void ray starts killing overlords on the map evo chamber started for Shine Roach warren started for Shine phoenix production started for Trap Shine goes back into the natural again but Trap has enough units and cannons to force him back void ray flies into Shine's natural but a queen chases it away
11:00 spores going up for Shine in his bases Lair on the way for Shine +1 range attack started for Shine robo started for trap
12:00 phoenix harass is denied by queens and spores Roach speed started for Shine shine on 6 gas now Robotics bay started for Trap Twilight council started for Trap infestation pit and spire started for Shine
13:00 observer for Trap 2 more gates for Trap blink research started for Trap +2 attack started for Trap macro hatch started for Shine Colossus production started for Trap Extended thermal lance research started for Trap
14:00 Trap walls off his natural 3rd base started for Trap 14 mutas on the way for Shine +1 melee started for Shine
15:00 mutas are spotted by the observer mutas kill one of the void rays 4 more mutas on hte way 4th base started for Shine Shine goes in for a ling muta roach attack at the 3rd of Trap but forcefields cause him to back off Mutas are looking for an opening cannons going down for Trap at his bases stalkers and phoenixes beat back the mutas for now
16:00 Shine adding on more and more mutas +1 air attack started for Shine +3 attack for Trap Shine goes in for an attack at the 3rd of Trap Trap tries to save it with forcefields but mutas kill the nexus Trap is moving out on the map
17:00 mutas counterattack into the natural of Trap but there are enough stalkers that he has to back off Trap sends his full army home 24 mutas are out now for Shine
18:00 3rd base restarted for Trap 5th base started for Shine Spine starting 12 spines in the attack paths 6th base started for Shine Templar archives started for Trap Shien going for an attack in the natural of Trap Trap's army is too big and Shine has to back off
19:00 Shine still adding in more mutas +2 melee started for Shine +2 flier attack started for Shine storm started for Trap 39 mutas are out for Shine +1 armor started for Trap
20:00 HTs on the map now mutas fly into the main and target fire the templar archives archives is killed before storm ling roach attack at the 3rd of Trap cybernetics core is almost sniped Trap restarts his cybercore and templar archives there are too many mutas and they are killing stalkers
21:00 13 more mutas on the way Trap turns his HTs into archons mutas fighting the stalkers straight up but Shine has to back off Storm research restarted Hive started for Shine 40 mutas out for Shine
22:00 mutas kill the 2 remaining phoenixes Shine looking for somewhere to attack 8 more mutas on the way for Shine +2 armor started for Trap mutas fly into the main of Trap
23:00 Shine doesnt target fire the templar archives and storm finishes forge researching +2 is killed Templar archives is killed cybernetics core is killed mutas fly into the 3rd of Trap storm hits a large number of mutas Shine has to fly away
24:00 there are still 32 mutas alive with 6 more on the way Greater spire started for Shine Trap pushing out to attack Shine's 6th base storms zone the mutas away 6th base of Shine is killed mutas kill a full energy HT mutas fly back into Trap's 3rd Traps nexus is sniped
25:00 45 mutas out for Shine with 6 more on the way 3rd base restarted for Trap Shine making more spines at his bases pathogen glands started for Shine +3 melee started for shine templar archives restarted for Trap +3 air attack started for Shine
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs STX Soul Game 7: 3-3 Shine vs Trap Map: Neo Caldeum
0:00 Shine spawns in the bottom left Trap spawns in the top right
1:00 10 pool for Shine fast probe scout from Trap Trap scouts the 10 pool gateway first for Trap
2:00 lings started for Shine double gas for Trap zealot for Trap
3:00 pylon block in Shine's natural 2nd zealot for Trap Cybernetics core for Trap lings arrive at Trap's base probes are pulled to help defend 2nd zealot is out
4:00 3rd zealot for Trap gas for Shine Shine kills the pylon in his natural hatch for Shine
5:00 stalker for Trap 2 more gates for Trap ling speed started for Shine
6:00 a few lings slip into Trap's base and get a full scout Trap loses his zealots to ling on the map 20 more lings coming out for Trap sentry on the way for Shine Nexus started for Trap
7:00 lings run into the natural of Trap and start hitting the nexus Trap has to cancel his nexus Nexus started again in the natural of Trap lings come back in the natural but Shine is hiding his total count stargate for Trap all the lings run into the natural as speed finishes forcefields block the lings from hitting units
8:00 Trap has to cancel his nexus again forge started for Trap Shine is using the main entrance and neutral assimilator entrance to harass the natural Shine now breaking down the rocks into Trap's natural void ray on the way for Trap 3rd base for Shine
9:00 Natural nexus restarted again for Trap gas for Shine cannon in the natural started for Trap Shine finishes off the rocks before the void ray chases them away +1 attack started for Trap 2nd void ray on the way for Trap
10:00 Void ray starts killing overlords on the map evo chamber started for Shine Roach warren started for Shine phoenix production started for Trap Shine goes back into the natural again but Trap has enough units and cannons to force him back void ray flies into Shine's natural but a queen chases it away
11:00 spores going up for Shine in his bases Lair on the way for Shine +1 range attack started for Shine robo started for trap
12:00 phoenix harass is denied by queens and spores Roach speed started for Shine shine on 6 gas now Robotics bay started for Trap Twilight council started for Trap infestation pit and spire started for Shine
13:00 observer for Trap 2 more gates for Trap blink research started for Trap +2 attack started for Trap macro hatch started for Shine Colossus production started for Trap Extended thermal lance research started for Trap
14:00 Trap walls off his natural 3rd base started for Trap 14 mutas on the way for Shine +1 melee started for Shine
15:00 mutas are spotted by the observer mutas kill one of the void rays 4 more mutas on hte way 4th base started for Shine Shine goes in for a ling muta roach attack at the 3rd of Trap but forcefields cause him to back off Mutas are looking for an opening cannons going down for Trap at his bases stalkers and phoenixes beat back the mutas for now
16:00 Shine adding on more and more mutas +1 air attack started for Shine +3 attack for Trap Shine goes in for an attack at the 3rd of Trap Trap tries to save it with forcefields but mutas kill the nexus Trap is moving out on the map
17:00 mutas counterattack into the natural of Trap but there are enough stalkers that he has to back off Trap sends his full army home 24 mutas are out now for Shine
18:00 3rd base restarted for Trap 5th base started for Shine Spine starting 12 spines in the attack paths 6th base started for Shine Templar archives started for Trap Shien going for an attack in the natural of Trap Trap's army is too big and Shine has to back off
19:00 Shine still adding in more mutas +2 melee started for Shine +2 flier attack started for Shine storm started for Trap 39 mutas are out for Shine +1 armor started for Trap
20:00 HTs on the map now mutas fly into the main and target fire the templar archives archives is killed before storm ling roach attack at the 3rd of Trap cybernetics core is almost sniped Trap restarts his cybercore and templar archives there are too many mutas and they are killing stalkers
21:00 13 more mutas on the way Trap turns his HTs into archons mutas fighting the stalkers straight up but Shine has to back off Storm research restarted Hive started for Shine 40 mutas out for Shine
22:00 mutas kill the 2 remaining phoenixes Shine looking for somewhere to attack 8 more mutas on the way for Shine +2 armor started for Trap mutas fly into the main of Trap
23:00 Shine doesnt target fire the templar archives and storm finishes forge researching +2 is killed Templar archives is killed cybernetics core is killed mutas fly into the 3rd of Trap storm hits a large number of mutas Shine has to fly away
24:00 there are still 32 mutas alive with 6 more on the way Greater spire started for Shine Trap pushing out to attack Shine's 6th base storms zone the mutas away 6th base of Shine is killed mutas kill a full energy HT mutas fly back into Trap's 3rd Traps nexus is sniped
25:00 45 mutas out for Shine with 6 more on the way 3rd base restarted for Trap Shine making more spines at his bases pathogen glands started for Shine +3 melee started for shine templar archives restarted for Trap +3 air attack started for Shine
26:00 mutas fly back into the main and unpower a bunch of gates Trap tries to storm the mutas but it's not enough the mutas are just killing everything because there's still like 40 14 more mutas on the way
27:00 Trap ggs! Shine wins and Samsung KHAN takes the match 4-3!
Haven't played as toss in a long time, but I remember being in that sort of game. Head-bashingly frustrating, totally feel for Trap. But Shine played really well
That was painful to watch. No amount of blink stalkers can kill that many mutalisks. The bounce damage is way too much, and you just move out of storms. Plus he easily got 10 gas running
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
It's pretty garbage comparing to BW mutas that actually required micro. If shine was using BW mutas like that he would have lost all of them in 2 seconds.
On January 12 2013 15:34 Wingblade wrote: That was painful to watch. No amount of blink stalkers can kill that many mutalisks. The bounce damage is way too much, and you just move out of storms. Plus he easily got 10 gas running
Because stalkers no longer is the answer when they get over 20 mutas.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
On January 12 2013 15:36 jinorazi wrote: last i checked ranged pheonix are pretty damn good against mutas
Stop saying this, didn't you see that the templar archives already got sniped. Investing into fleet beacon for it to be sniped and another research time is ludicrous in a situation like that.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
On January 12 2013 15:36 jinorazi wrote: last i checked ranged pheonix are pretty damn good against mutas
Stop saying this, didn't you see that the templar archives already got sniped. Investing into fleet beacon for it to be sniped and another research time is ludicrous in a situation like that.
t.a is needed for fleet beacon?? i dont recall. if i go stargate, i get it knowingly it'll counter muta play.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
On January 12 2013 15:35 Goldfish wrote: Reminds me of some game where some player was reverse all killed in winner's league format in PL.
The last player literally did cry. I forgot which teams though and what players >.<.
Did MKP sneak his way onto the booth and take over?
Plenty of players cried, including old school players, I don't see why it's a bad thing to be made into a joke.
I feel for them, and I totally understand. I didn't follow bw, and generally don't see anybody cry in the sc2 scene. MKP is an exception. I'm a huge MKP fan though, I'm not hating on the guy
On January 12 2013 15:36 jinorazi wrote: last i checked ranged pheonix are pretty damn good against mutas
If you open FFE into phoenix... Otherwise you cant invest into them without losing a bunch of probes. And then Zerg transitions into a roach timing or just lategame BL/INF.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
Pretty much this. The style was figured out enough in mid 2011 so that all P has to do is cannon/ht and make sure to include archons + stalkers + storm. He got his archives and third sniped a few times and at that point it's all downhill. Shine could have made any unit en masse and won the game at that point, he just decided to make it look really weird with as many mutas as he could build.
On January 12 2013 15:36 jinorazi wrote: last i checked ranged pheonix are pretty damn good against mutas
Stop saying this, didn't you see that the templar archives already got sniped. Investing into fleet beacon for it to be sniped and another research time is ludicrous in a situation like that.
t.a is needed for fleet beacon?? i dont recall. if i go stargate, i get it knowingly it'll counter muta play.
What? No one goes stargate to counter mutaslisks. That's not how it works. Low number of mutas = blink stalker. High number = archon / storm. Range upgrade is niche as hell, infestors are out by the time you have it.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
That's not how it happened. Zerg got ahead with full gas mining first before doing mutalisks. If the protoss was on even grounds he would have had the third running the whole time and storm researching or finishing by the time he sees the mutas. Zerg had map control even before the mutalisks. I don't know why I'm explaining this since Trap was too behind for any real viable option any ways. His third got sniped, his templar archives got sniped. If neither of those happened he could have still defended it.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
Pretty much this. The style was figured out enough in mid 2011 so that all P has to do is cannon/ht and make sure to include archons + stalkers + storm. He got his archives and third sniped a few times and at that point it's all downhill. Shine could have made any unit en masse and won the game at that point, he just decided to make it look really weird with as many mutas as he could build.
This is such a complete fallacy I don't even know what to say. Mutalisk styles were still the standard until Stephano came out with the roach max. Zergs transitioned to that because it was practically a free-win button when it first came out. Mutalisk styles never got "figured out" unless you had absurd multitasking. Phoenix range did nothing unless you went stargate every single game which made you vulnerable to other timings.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
You dont get "complete map dominance" if the Protoss player doesn't lose his 3rd a bunch of times. If the Protoss can maintain his third even if Z gets a fourth, all P has to do is leave a couple HT, couple cannons at each mineral line and some back up stalkers and pressure with the rest of the army. At this point the goal is to contain Z to no more bases than you, and eventually mass muta will lose out to archon/storm. This style isn't used anymore for a number of reasons.
The counter means the mutas actually never get the dominance you saw that game, because they hit a few storms and have to retreat if the P has any multitasking ability whatsoever.
EDIT: Lol at absurd multitasking. All it took was minute map awareness and occasional looks to your mineral line with a high templar. One or two storms on a muta flock brings the flock down into orange/yellow.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
That's not how it happened. Zerg got ahead with full gas mining first before doing mutalisks. If the protoss was on even grounds he would have had the third running the whole time and storm researching or finishing by the time he sees the mutas. Zerg had map control even before the mutalisks. I don't know why I'm explaining this since Trap was too behind for any real viable option any ways. His third got sniped, his templar archives got sniped. If neither of those happened he could have still defended it.
I'm not even talking about this one game. You need insane APM in any game to do all the things listed, something a vast majority of players don't have. And Trap went colossi and already had one out by the time the mutas come out. So no, if a player tries to go colossi in any standard game and suddenly mutas show up you won't have storm researched or done by the time mutas are on the way.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
Pretty much this. The style was figured out enough in mid 2011 so that all P has to do is cannon/ht and make sure to include archons + stalkers + storm. He got his archives and third sniped a few times and at that point it's all downhill. Shine could have made any unit en masse and won the game at that point, he just decided to make it look really weird with as many mutas as he could build.
This is such a complete fallacy I don't even know what to say. Mutalisk styles were still the standard until Stephano came out with the roach max. Zergs transitioned to that because it was practically a free-win button when it first came out. Mutalisk styles never got "figured out" unless you had absurd multitasking. Phoenix range did nothing unless you went stargate every single game which made you vulnerable to other timings.
Two base mutalisk all in -> dies to immortal sentry stalker push if scouted. Three base mutalisk all in -> enough time to set up defenses. Stop pretending mutalisk all-ins like this were standard. They sure as hell weren't.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
That's not how it happened. Zerg got ahead with full gas mining first before doing mutalisks. If the protoss was on even grounds he would have had the third running the whole time and storm researching or finishing by the time he sees the mutas. Zerg had map control even before the mutalisks. I don't know why I'm explaining this since Trap was too behind for any real viable option any ways. His third got sniped, his templar archives got sniped. If neither of those happened he could have still defended it.
I'm not even talking about this one game. You need insane APM in any game to do all the things listed, something a vast majority of players don't have. And Trap went colossi and already had one out by the time the mutas come out. So no, if a player tries to go colossi in any standard game and suddenly mutas show up you won't have storm researched or done by the time mutas are on the way.
-_- Are we really complaining about mutalisk all in's in PvZ. It dies to the current meta game of protoss. That's all that matters.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
That's not how it happened. Zerg got ahead with full gas mining first before doing mutalisks. If the protoss was on even grounds he would have had the third running the whole time and storm researching or finishing by the time he sees the mutas. Zerg had map control even before the mutalisks. I don't know why I'm explaining this since Trap was too behind for any real viable option any ways. His third got sniped, his templar archives got sniped. If neither of those happened he could have still defended it.
I'm not even talking about this one game. You need insane APM in any game to do all the things listed, something a vast majority of players don't have. And Trap went colossi and already had one out by the time the mutas come out. So no, if a player tries to go colossi in any standard game and suddenly mutas show up you won't have storm researched or done by the time mutas are on the way.
This is why if you see a Spire and suspect muta play you don't go into Colossi. You skip that tech and go into storm and grab a third. This isn't a PvX thread and considering I had the APM to manage mutalisk styles as a mid-master player in 2011 the progamers have no excuse not to be able to handle the same style due to multitasking limitations, which also effect the actual mutalisking player as well.
EDIT: In the old way of FFE it was fairly standard to go Obs/Prism first if you were doing a robo style or Hallu if you were going TC, so yes you would scout the Spire unless it was hidden outside of a Z's base.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
You dont get "complete map dominance" if the Protoss player doesn't lose his 3rd a bunch of times. If the Protoss can maintain his third even if Z gets a fourth, all P has to do is leave a couple HT, couple cannons at each mineral line and some back up stalkers and pressure with the rest of the army. At this point the goal is to contain Z to no more bases than you, and eventually mass muta will lose out to archon/storm. This style isn't used anymore for a number of reasons.
The counter means the mutas actually never get the dominance you saw that game, because they hit a few storms and have to retreat if the P has any multitasking ability whatsoever.
EDIT: Lol at absurd multitasking. All it took was minute map awareness and occasional looks to your mineral line with a high templar. One or two storms on a muta flock brings the flock down into orange/yellow.
So you just have storm instantly for the mutas? What if you go robo into colossus like Trap did, even in a standard FFE game with faster third etc. Oh crap 14 mutalisks are flying toward my base and I went colossus.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
You dont get "complete map dominance" if the Protoss player doesn't lose his 3rd a bunch of times. If the Protoss can maintain his third even if Z gets a fourth, all P has to do is leave a couple HT, couple cannons at each mineral line and some back up stalkers and pressure with the rest of the army. At this point the goal is to contain Z to no more bases than you, and eventually mass muta will lose out to archon/storm. This style isn't used anymore for a number of reasons.
The counter means the mutas actually never get the dominance you saw that game, because they hit a few storms and have to retreat if the P has any multitasking ability whatsoever.
EDIT: Lol at absurd multitasking. All it took was minute map awareness and occasional looks to your mineral line with a high templar. One or two storms on a muta flock brings the flock down into orange/yellow.
So you just have storm instantly for the mutas? What if you go robo into colossus like Trap did, even in a standard FFE game with faster third etc. Oh crap 14 mutalisks are flying toward my base and I went colossus.
Cannons and immediate transition out of Colossus into Blink. This is not an uncounterable style and Trap was behind. If Z is ahead and goes muta it's obviously much harder. There's no "oh crap 14 mutalisks" if you played against this style back when it was popular with maps in the pool like TDA and Metalopolis.
That is why in the days it was played as Caihead stated earlier it would get murdered by any sort of gateway + upgrade/tech allin off of two base which were designed to kill these spire styles.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
Awesomely uncounterable.
It's easily counterable. Any ESF player will smash it. Trap was just way behind from the start of the game. And honestly Shine should win on 5 base 2 by just throwing units at his oppenent.
The problem is how does Trap stop him from getting 5 bases, AND take a fourth, AND defend his probes, AND his tech against a mutalisk count like that and a bunch of spines at every base? No amount of blink stalkers can fight that much glaive worm bounce damage.
The counter is storm upgrade, archons, and cannon / ht at each base. Trap was too behind to do that.
So then how do you apply pressure at the same time to prevent the Zerg getting to 5 bases? I understand what the "counter" is. But how do you do all those things and set up additional expansions, AND deny Zerg economy at the same time?
The problem has never been the mutalisk itself. It's the complete map dominance you get from that style.
You dont get "complete map dominance" if the Protoss player doesn't lose his 3rd a bunch of times. If the Protoss can maintain his third even if Z gets a fourth, all P has to do is leave a couple HT, couple cannons at each mineral line and some back up stalkers and pressure with the rest of the army. At this point the goal is to contain Z to no more bases than you, and eventually mass muta will lose out to archon/storm. This style isn't used anymore for a number of reasons.
The counter means the mutas actually never get the dominance you saw that game, because they hit a few storms and have to retreat if the P has any multitasking ability whatsoever.
EDIT: Lol at absurd multitasking. All it took was minute map awareness and occasional looks to your mineral line with a high templar. One or two storms on a muta flock brings the flock down into orange/yellow.
So you just have storm instantly for the mutas? What if you go robo into colossus like Trap did, even in a standard FFE game with faster third etc. Oh crap 14 mutalisks are flying toward my base and I went colossus.
If you go robo you have observer and you can just go move across the map and kill him with standard immortal sentry stalker. If you go stargate you have phoenix and you can scout it early and count gas. Pure Mutalisks is an all-in strategy. Your ground upgrades are late as fuck and your tech is typically delayed beyond belief. It's easy as hell to spot if you see gases being taken. That was not a standard game.
I don't know what people are arguing about. Trap was behind from the ling harrass forcing 2 nexus cancels. Shine was on like 18-22 drones for a LONG time just spamming speedlings. It paid off and Trap was behind on econ due double nexus cancel. He actually handled the initial 14 mutas fairly decently given the amount of stalkers he had. But was too behind on econ to keep up at that point as zerg can drone non-stop. Shine's muta control wasn't that great, If he didn't snipe templar archives then trap would've had 2-3 more HT with energy and storm finish several minutes earlier. If shine kept massing muta the way he did the storm/archon would've killed all of them. Not that trap would've win 100% as he'd still be behind on econ, but he could've hit a timing while zerg is transitioning out of mutas. Remember Zerg wasn't on infestor/hive tech for a long time so a counter attack with archon/ht/blink stalkers could out right kill the roach ling tech Shine was still on. But all of that hinges on getting storm and several HT about 2-3 minutes earlier, and Shine being stubborn to stay muta a few minutes too long. Anyhow, if the early ling aggression didn't put Trap so far behind he would've been able to handle the mutas a lot easier too. There's nothing OP about mass mutas.
Fuck yeah KHAN! I loved todays first 3 matches, and then the Shine Trap at the end. Never put a Khan player on anti-, ever. That's one of my rules I go by.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
It's pretty garbage comparing to BW mutas that actually required micro. If shine was using BW mutas like that he would have lost all of them in 2 seconds.
Yea, he would have completely gotten owned in Brood War by using mass mutas.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
It's pretty garbage comparing to BW mutas that actually required micro. If shine was using BW mutas like that he would have lost all of them in 2 seconds.
Yea, he would have completely gotten owned in Brood War by using mass mutas.
LOL shine was notorious for his muta all-in and 5 hatch hydra all-in play in BW. His control was excellent with both. It was late game where he was a total doofus.
On January 12 2013 15:31 Havik_ wrote: I thought this mass muta garbage ended in 2011
garbage? Its awesome
It's pretty garbage comparing to BW mutas that actually required micro. If shine was using BW mutas like that he would have lost all of them in 2 seconds.
Yea, he would have completely gotten owned in Brood War by using mass mutas.
EPT
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