On December 17 2012 18:50 Ruscour wrote: Hokay, I'm not that hot on FPL math.
I have Terminator, and SKT is my team. Is it better for me for SKT to win 4-0, or for Terminator to win and it go to ace?
4-0 is 8 points and win + ace win is 6, methinks. Also - for team loss if so.
You only lose points if the team loses 4-1 or 4-0. Both teams actually gain points if it goes to ace (+1 and +2 for losing and winning the ace match respectively).
On December 17 2012 18:50 Ruscour wrote: Hokay, I'm not that hot on FPL math.
I have Terminator, and SKT is my team. Is it better for me for SKT to win 4-0, or for Terminator to win and it go to ace?
4-0 is 8 points and win + ace win is 6, methinks. Also - for team loss if so.
You only lose points if the team loses 4-1 or 4-0. Both teams actually gain points if it goes to ace (+1 and +2 for losing and winning the ace match respectively).
Oh, sorry. :3
I have 4 T1 players fielded and the team. Hope them points will rain on me.
On December 17 2012 18:50 Ruscour wrote: Hokay, I'm not that hot on FPL math.
I have Terminator, and SKT is my team. Is it better for me for SKT to win 4-0, or for Terminator to win and it go to ace?
If SKT wins 4-0, you gain 8 points for SKT and 0 bonus points because you don't have any SKT players. Terminator will not be able to play, but you will gain 1 point for lineup, for a potential 9 points.
If it goes 4-3 to team8, you gain 1 point for SKT. You gain 1 bonus point for having a winning team's player. If terminator loses, you gain 0 points for players (+1 appearance -1 loss). If he wins you get 3 points (+1 appearance, +2 win). If he appears for ace match and loses that's -1, and if he appears and wins that's +5. Max points in a 4-3 are anywhere between 1 (SKT) + 1 (team 8 player) - 1 (loses, appears in ace and loses) = 1 point and 1 (SKT) + 1 (team 8 player) + 3 (terminator wins his games) + 5 (appears in ace and wins that) = 10 points
On December 17 2012 18:50 Ruscour wrote: Hokay, I'm not that hot on FPL math.
I have Terminator, and SKT is my team. Is it better for me for SKT to win 4-0, or for Terminator to win and it go to ace?
If SKT wins 4-0, you gain 8 points for SKT and 0 bonus points because you don't have any SKT players. Terminator will not be able to play, but you will gain 1 point for lineup, for a potential 9 points.
He would get 10 points. 8 for 4-0, 1 for lineup, 1 for team win.
On December 17 2012 18:50 Ruscour wrote: Hokay, I'm not that hot on FPL math.
I have Terminator, and SKT is my team. Is it better for me for SKT to win 4-0, or for Terminator to win and it go to ace?
If SKT wins 4-0, you gain 8 points for SKT and 0 bonus points because you don't have any SKT players. Terminator will not be able to play, but you will gain 1 point for lineup, for a potential 9 points.
He would get 10 points. 8 for 4-0, 1 for lineup, 1 for team win.
1 for team win? what is that?
Thats me not drinking coffee after getting to work ^^
On December 17 2012 19:05 GreenAndOrangeTurtle wrote: Hopefully SKT wins 4-3 with FantasysoO taking him game and the ace... so many delicious FPL points...
On December 17 2012 19:24 GreenAndOrangeTurtle wrote:
On December 17 2012 19:22 lespostea wrote:
On December 17 2012 19:14 GreenAndOrangeTurtle wrote:
On December 17 2012 19:09 lespostea wrote: Bisu is on the bench and s2 is playing??
If it wasn't for his BW legacy, Bisu would be lucky to even be on the bench. He looks clueless when he plays.
There was something off about his play for a long time...
I'm more surprised that s2 is a viable start.
Yeh intersting that they didn't give the Afrotoss another go after his win on the weekend.
The lineups were decided before that, and it's Tal'Darim as well. So I guess it was between s2 and Hyuk. =P
Of course. I forgot that they had already set the lineups.
If they wanted to play Paralyze, they still could have reshuffled and put soO on TDA. but i guess they want to give all there guys games early in the season to try and give them some confidence.
If i buy the ticket of the 720p do i have english cast with no lag ? Because those week end matches were almost not watchable (some were but it was anoying)
I'm sorry about the low video quality, I was brought in really short term and I basically just restreaming a 720p stream with my own setup at home and it just doesn't get any better than that TT hope you understand, it's just a temporary solution and will be much better in the future.
On December 17 2012 20:03 Liquid`TLO wrote: I'm sorry about the low video quality, I was brought in really short term and I basically just restreaming a 720p stream with my own setup at home and it just doesn't get any better than that TT hope you understand, it's just a temporary solution and will be much better in the future.
On December 17 2012 20:06 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Not trying to rant, but damn, what has proleague become? I'm so disappointed in the whole envolvement with SC2. Killing Proleague? Meh.
Where's the excitement, the crowds? You call this esports when it really is just a huge step backwards? Why does the korean stream not work?
Fantasy should win this one, which will bring the score to 3-0. Next match I really have no idea either 4-0 or 3-1, and Rain will close the games with 4-1. Thats my prediction
On December 17 2012 20:38 costinii wrote: No live report... would be nice to have one. Has the 2nd match finished? There is no update on the main page.
Did best win the match?
Best won, as BaBy kind of overextended and didn't have the right unit comp against BeSt's infinite colossi or something.
On December 17 2012 20:38 costinii wrote: No live report... would be nice to have one. Has the 2nd match finished? There is no update on the main page.
Did best win the match?
Sorry was AFK for 5 mins. Its updated now and yes Best won
On December 17 2012 20:38 costinii wrote: No live report... would be nice to have one. Has the 2nd match finished? There is no update on the main page.
Did best win the match?
Best won, as BaBy kind of overextended and didn't have the right unit comp against BeSt's infinite colossi or something.
Baby overextended, gave up his position behind the mineral line, which allowed the Protoss to move out comfortably, and he didn't have enough mauraders (or vikings) to fight.
On December 17 2012 20:38 costinii wrote: No live report... would be nice to have one. Has the 2nd match finished? There is no update on the main page.
Did best win the match?
Best won, as BaBy kind of overextended and didn't have the right unit comp against BeSt's infinite colossi or something.
Baby overextended, gave up his position behind the mineral line, which allowed the Protoss to move out comfortably, and he didn't have enough mauraders (or vikings) to fight.
Thats sad, so for what I understood was more about BaBy making bad decisions than Best doing good ones.
Well, let's hope we see Rain do some magic. By the looks of these past 2 games we might not see Rain playing!
Fantasy was using the mobility of his army very well, being really fearless which led Savage to be indecisive, which further compounded the problem of being too spread out. plus, I don't know if I like his choice of expanding up near the top, rather than toward the planetary (near the bottom). then spine the shit out of the third and slow push your way up the right side of the map.
also, he needed to be more frugal with his Infestor energy. and where the heck was the overseer?
On December 17 2012 21:01 Fenrax wrote: Somehow I dont feel these commentators, something is off.
Adebisi is suffering from the time zone difference
Its not only that, we commentate from a stream we both watch, but because of whatever reason (Twitch, me being NA, TLO EU, etc) our streams are not synced up, so when things happen in the game, its uh, not synced up, very hard to properly commentate, doing our best, playbyplay is pretty hard when I see things happen 15 seconds to a minute before the stream does, kills hype too, plus its 7am for me.
On December 17 2012 21:01 sAw wrote: What happened? I had to go away for 2 minutes, how did Fanta win?
Ryul was in Fanta`s main base with 10+ BroodLords and probably ~15-20 infestors, but got surrounded by bio army from everywhere and lost every infestors.. and BL fell after.. gg
On December 17 2012 21:01 Yello wrote: They should make the ingame sounds and music slightly louder. I can barely here anything but the casters
yeah it's sad watching this. The big-ass overlay that occupies 70% of the screen in between games, caster mumbling over little game sound, TY as in thankyou, zero hype and energy. I might mute this in favor of SF x Megaman 8bit sound.
On December 17 2012 21:01 sAw wrote: What happened? I had to go away for 2 minutes, how did Fanta win?
Ryul was in Fanta`s main base with 10+ BroodLords and probably ~15-20 infestors, but got surrounded by bio army from everywhere and lost every infestors.. and BL fell after.. gg
quick question guys, will there be multiple streams for these because sometimes 1 stream will die like in the case with TB's internet service going completely out.
On December 17 2012 21:01 Fenrax wrote: Somehow I dont feel these commentators, something is off.
Adebisi is suffering from the time zone difference
Its not only that, we commentate from a stream we both watch, but because of whatever reason (Twitch, me being NA, TLO EU, etc) our streams are not synced up, so when things happen in the game, its uh, not synced up, very hard to properly commentate, doing our best, playbyplay is pretty hard when I see things happen 15 seconds to a minute before the stream does, kills hype too, plus its 7am for me.
you're still doing great man, this is only the second time I have heard you commentate and you're doing really well, gj brah :D
On December 17 2012 21:11 Pandemona wrote: Well Team8 are really bad!
Straight up lol. They're actually not THAT bad, it's just against SKT's superior resources (money, coaching, players, etc), they look almost amateurish.
On December 17 2012 21:11 Pandemona wrote: Well Team8 are really bad!
Straight up lol. They're actually not THAT bad, it's just against SKT's superior resources (money, coaching, players, etc), they look almost amateurish.
they were ahead in the last two games, but both times they made critical strategic errors and the opponent exploited it. SKT is just capitalizing more on the little things.
JyJ has really good splitting and micro but his non-macro mechanics (rallying, dropping, general army movement) needs some work. Looks to have some good potential though
I'm really glad Jaehoon didn't get to play, seeing as how he's the Roro of this season he would have somehow beat Rain and screwed my anti-team even more.
That game really showed the difference in preparation between Thorzain and JyJ, Thorzain looked totally lost on that map but JyJ had a good plan, spawn positions helped, thorzain had to play cross spawns.
On December 17 2012 21:32 AlternativeEgo wrote: I think this series earned me 21 points. Pretty good. Rain and soO didn't even get to play, but still good.
JyJ really shows how thoroughly he prepared for this map anyway, a better zerg woulda held that and had a decent high teched army, instead of wasting resource on drop, coupled with bad defence and bad micro
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
On December 17 2012 21:32 AlternativeEgo wrote: I think this series earned me 21 points. Pretty good. Rain and soO didn't even get to play, but still good.
On December 17 2012 21:32 AlternativeEgo wrote: I think this series earned me 21 points. Pretty good. Rain and soO didn't even get to play, but still good.
Ha! 22
are u sure? u have Jaehoon on your anti team (at least before trades), he will cost you 1p, did you discout that point?^^
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
how so?
It's bullshit because he can't do his standard 3 hatch infestor-sit-on-his-ass bullshit. The usual, y'know.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
how so?
Siege Tanks...?
they're beatable, but you have to go mutas and fast. (or at least, that would be one way to beat it and is the only one I can think of right now)
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
how so?
Siege Tanks...?
they're beatable, but you have to go mutas and fast. (or at least, that would be one way to beat it and is the only one I can think of right now)
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
So you didn't watch Thorzain vs Songduri where lots of tears were shed by Egtl fans when Thorzain lost almost all of his scvs to a zerg counter attack.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
how so?
Siege Tanks...?
they're beatable, but you have to go mutas and fast. (or at least, that would be one way to beat it and is the only one I can think of right now)
Well there you go...
yeah but I'm a gold level Terran. I don't even play Zerg and I can think of one almost hard-counter to siege play, I think pro Zergs can come up with something. and even if siege tanks force mutas, that won't necessarily be all that bad. I don't know why a Zerg wouldn't go mutas anyway on a map that perfect for it.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
Why are you mad though? No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map so I don't see any problem with having it in the map pool. Unless you want 'Daybreak 24/7 fast respawn 100Mbit'. When OSL comes it around I'd be surprised if it was one of their maps.
On December 17 2012 22:46 Zeon0 wrote: gold level Terran theorycrafts about Zerg strategies on a map he never played on and saw like two TvZs? good stuff!
On December 17 2012 22:46 Zeon0 wrote: gold level Terran theorycrafts about Zerg strategies on a map he never played on and saw like two TvZs? good stuff!
was I wrong about anything? (and I have played on it, Custom games yo!)
edit: oh and I've seen 3 TvZs. Zerg won 2 of them. edit 2: (using mutas when they won, ironically)
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
Why are you mad though? No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map so I don't see any problem with having it in the map pool. Unless you want 'Daybreak 24/7 fast respawn 100Mbit'. When OSL comes it around I'd be surprised if it was one of their maps.
Doesn't freaking excuse that it is a piss poor map. Daybreak is a good map but I'm not saying I want all maps to be that way. Variety is FINE but this way is not. "No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map" is the worst fucking excuse I've ever heard. It is so disgustingly ignorant.
Muta play is relatively strong on it but Muta Ling Bling has never countered BioTank builds. It's a balanced matchup which generally is about skill and positioning. And if you look at the map the attacking Terran has a very favoured position. Meanwhile an attacking Zerg does not have such an advantage, as all their ground units vs T are melee and cannot make use of the terrain.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
Why are you mad though? No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map so I don't see any problem with having it in the map pool. Unless you want 'Daybreak 24/7 fast respawn 100Mbit'. When OSL comes it around I'd be surprised if it was one of their maps.
Doesn't freaking excuse that it is a piss poor map. Daybreak is a good map but I'm not saying I want all maps to be that way. Variety is FINE but this way is not. "No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map" is the worst fucking excuse I've ever heard. It is so disgustingly ignorant.
Eh, it's a perfectly reasonable argument for a Proleague map. Also, the fact that a number of teams have sent Zergs on that map despite Terrans being the most common pick indicates that they have an idea how to handle something as elementary as Siege Tanks.
How is that a good argument? A bloody map pick shouldn't give a large advantage to a race as a whole. It's fine if it plays to a certain player's style etc but this is silly.
Also beating a washed up foreigner doesn't mean the map is balanced.
There is no evidence that it gives a large advantage to any race. The ability to put a Tank on high ground doesn't discard a map at all. It's a basic strategic feature.
On December 17 2012 23:21 Big J wrote: Quick question: what keeps Terran on this map from going 1rax 5 CC?
Nydus, Mutas, killing the rocks and attacking? Sure there are rocks but It's not impossible to break them, the ones that lead right up the middle to the enemy base has less HP and armor than the ones on the side, I believe It's only 2000 or 1000 even.
On December 17 2012 23:18 Talin wrote: There is no evidence that it gives a large advantage to any race. The ability to put a Tank on high ground doesn't discard a map at all. It's a basic strategic feature.
Yeah, people couldn't see how dumb Jungle Basin or Kulas Ravine was in the first weeks either. Doesn't mean it wasn't a retarded map to put in to begin with.
Don't even know why I'm bothering anyway cos it's obvious you are just blanking me with halfassed answers.
On December 17 2012 21:27 Elem wrote: Not sure what's more retarded. This Zerg's play or this map...
the Zerg played really badly, but the map is actually really cool.
of course, JYJ played that as well as the zerg played it badly, so it looked ugly
Really cool? Are you kidding me? You don't even need to look for 3 seconds to see that it is massive bullshit in TvZ. Worse than both Xel'Naga and Jungle Basin.
Why are you mad though? No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map so I don't see any problem with having it in the map pool. Unless you want 'Daybreak 24/7 fast respawn 100Mbit'. When OSL comes it around I'd be surprised if it was one of their maps.
Doesn't freaking excuse that it is a piss poor map. Daybreak is a good map but I'm not saying I want all maps to be that way. Variety is FINE but this way is not. "No one is forcing any team to field a zerg on that map" is the worst fucking excuse I've ever heard. It is so disgustingly ignorant.
Muta play is relatively strong on it but Muta Ling Bling has never countered BioTank builds. It's a balanced matchup which generally is about skill and positioning. And if you look at the map the attacking Terran has a very favoured position. Meanwhile an attacking Zerg does not have such an advantage, as all their ground units vs T are melee and cannot make use of the terrain.
You mention muta ling bling, but who says you have to go for t hat style?
Mutas can be built alongside other units, not just ling bling and you can get 6-7 mutas to start with to just shut down drop play.
It's a really experimental, fun and good map to watch.
Anyone who thinks Arkanoid in any way shape or form is a balanced map is out of their minds. Even people from BW know that Arkanoid was fucking retarded for Zergs and Protosses who yielded less than 50% winrates against Terran, with Zerg having 35.2% vs Terran and Protoss having a 39% winrate versus Terran and 32.2% versus Zerg. *balanced*
Only Savior could win on that map and that was because he was god and everyone else was just bad.
Arkanoid blooowws and all it takes is for an informed person to look at that map for 5 seconds to know that it's just shit.
On December 17 2012 23:32 Zergneedsfood wrote: lol you guys
Anyone who thinks Arkanoid in any way shape or form is a balanced map is out of their minds. Even people from BW know that Arkanoid was fucking retarded for Zergs and Protosses who yielded less than 50% winrates against Terran, with Zerg having 35.2% vs Terran and Protoss having a 39% winrate versus Terran and 32.2% versus Zerg. *balanced*
Only Savior could win on that map and that was because he was god and everyone else was just bad.
Arkanoid blooowws and all it takes is for an informed person to look at that map for 5 seconds to know that it's just shit.
Why is map balance so important for you guys?
If you really believe map balance is so critical, I would say current ladder map pool is pathetic balance wise. Standard doesn't mean balance.
On December 17 2012 23:32 Zergneedsfood wrote: lol you guys
Anyone who thinks Arkanoid in any way shape or form is a balanced map is out of their minds. Even people from BW know that Arkanoid was fucking retarded for Zergs and Protosses who yielded less than 50% winrates against Terran, with Zerg having 35.2% vs Terran and Protoss having a 39% winrate versus Terran and 32.2% versus Zerg. *balanced*
Only Savior could win on that map and that was because he was god and everyone else was just bad.
Arkanoid blooowws and all it takes is for an informed person to look at that map for 5 seconds to know that it's just shit.
Why is map balance so important for you guys?
If you really believe map balance is so critical, I would say current ladder map pool is pathetic balance wise. Standard doesn't mean balance.
Because there's a reason why you don't see Bloodbath or Challenger from BW played in a competitive setting unless it's a joke or entertainment purposes? It's why some maps are heralded as battlefields for some of the greatest games in the competitive era.
People don't remember games just because of the players, though that's definitely one of the primary components. People also remember the map because a map's design is integral for an entertaining experience.
Also, I don't care about Sc2 maps really and I think they're all garbage. I just came in here when I heard people were giving Arkanoid credibility at all and decided to tell people that makes no sense.
Yeah that map would be horrible in an individual league. But here where teams can chose who to send, having fun "new" maps like this is awesome and makes for interesting strats
On December 18 2012 00:10 Salteador Neo wrote: Yeah that map would be horrible in an individual league. But here where teams can chose who to send, having fun "new" maps like this is awesome and makes for interesting strats
I'm intrigued. Please enlighten us on what kind of "interesting strats" you have in mind!
Oh thank you... Guess i didn't open the good tab because i could have thought about it being in liquidpedia
On December 17 2012 22:46 Zeon0 wrote: gold level Terran theorycrafts about Zerg strategies on a map he never played on and saw like two TvZs? good stuff!
Really ? So Gold players can't have opinions ? He said he supposed a thing and people bashing him... Not really nice.
On December 18 2012 00:10 Salteador Neo wrote: Yeah that map would be horrible in an individual league. But here where teams can chose who to send, having fun "new" maps like this is awesome and makes for interesting strats
I'm intrigued. Please enlighten us on what kind of "interesting strats" you have in mind!
Well it's not SC2 but there were a lot of great games in BW on it. Savior did his part, UpMagic (dat Supply depot). Or if i remember correctly (i'm not really sure). There was a PvP with cool Dark Archon. Who was it ? I can't recall (no that was not Jaehoon)
But yes it is NOT a balanced map. None of the KESPA BW maps were (can't think of one). Also there was cool games on Blood Bath :p (MBC Game attack i think). I really think that stupid maps like that serves to entertain the public. And when some zerg will pull of his hat a crazy strat to do it will be so cool
I remember that the imbalance on some maps made cool strats. For exemple the barracks behind the mineral line from Boxer against... euh... no don't remember. A protoss. Boxer was really good at studying map. When all maps are balanced you always see the same thing over and over again. (i'm exagerating of course)
Map balance isn't very critical in Proleague. If a map is completely unbalanced, it'll be taken out in the next round, anyway.
Central Plains was a recent BW map that was only in a single round of Proleague because 27 out of 34 games were PvP. But while it was in, it was still a fun map to watch.
On December 17 2012 22:46 Zeon0 wrote: gold level Terran theorycrafts about Zerg strategies on a map he never played on and saw like two TvZs? good stuff!
Really ? So Gold players can't have opinions ? He said he supposed a thing and people bashing him... Not really nice.
On December 18 2012 00:10 Salteador Neo wrote: Yeah that map would be horrible in an individual league. But here where teams can chose who to send, having fun "new" maps like this is awesome and makes for interesting strats
I'm intrigued. Please enlighten us on what kind of "interesting strats" you have in mind!
Well it's not SC2 but there were a lot of great games in BW on it. Savior did his part, UpMagic (dat Supply depot). Or if i remember correctly (i'm not really sure). There was a PvP with cool Dark Archon. Who was it ? I can't recall (no that was not Jaehoon)
But yes it is NOT a balanced map. None of the KESPA BW maps were (can't think of one). Also there was cool games on Blood Bath :p (MBC Game attack i think). I really think that stupid maps like that serves to entertain the public. And when some zerg will pull of his hat a crazy strat to do it will be so cool
I remember that the imbalance on some maps made cool strats. For exemple the barracks behind the mineral line from Boxer against... euh... no don't remember. A protoss. Boxer was really good at studying map. When all maps are balanced you always see the same thing over and over again. (i'm exagerating of course)
Wtf? Okay, it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, but at least most BW maps that stayed popular had the decency to have close to 50% win ratios for each matchup.
Not saying certain SC2 maps don't, but I think it's fair to say that crap maps are crap maps, and it's stupid to let a map like this fly by saying "ooh, but...interesting strats!" That's pretty stupid when considering the best strats are pulled off on maps that are fairly balanced.
On December 17 2012 23:21 Big J wrote: Quick question: what keeps Terran on this map from going 1rax 5 CC?
Nydus, Mutas, killing the rocks and attacking? Sure there are rocks but It's not impossible to break them, the ones that lead right up the middle to the enemy base has less HP and armor than the ones on the side, I believe It's only 2000 or 1000 even.
Well, I mean I'm assuming a Terran uses 1-3scans around 6-7mins to see the starting spawn of a zerg. If it is not a Lair, no superfast drop or Nydus or Mutas are coming. For 1base mutas, all you need is the marines turret per mineral line. For two base mutas you can have mass marine or Thors + turrets ready. Any kind of fast pool is obviously bullshit with the rocks. 1-2base roach based armies usually hit between 6-8mins. With the rocks I'd assume it's like 8-10mins. You can have tanks or mass bio at that point of the build I'm talking, and you are going to hold. (I know all this, because I do play 1rax 4-5CC on Cloud Kingdom around Masterlevel, were it's basically unscoutable if properly done) I think it really comes down to very fast 2base Nydus (spread your buildings and maybe 3-4 units, starting with the first depot and rax and marine, then pull SCVs to stop the Nydus; should be manageable, but of course you can miss it) and 2base drops (which I guess are a real counter). And all of those tech builds are assuming a Zerg that basically did this completly blindly (else you cannot have the lair/drops/mutas in time).
Arkanoïd still has produced funnier games from a viewer's perspective than most of blizzard's maps. If it was so obviously imbalanced proteams wouldn't send a zerg on it.
I've never enjoyed watching proSC2 that much since the new proleague and most of it is due to the new maps. Besides, these are the first sc2 maps ever that Kespa makes so let's give them a chance.
On December 18 2012 05:31 Iberville wrote: I believe that the live stream was commented by TLO and Adebesi, but they didn’tm anage to make it into the vods.
That sucks, games are so boring without commentary
If Arkanoid is so silly for zerg why don't the team just field a protoss on it? It is bad in individual leagues, maybe, but the games are just awesome on it (except this last one).
Roro already won a tvz on Arkanoid vs a strong terran. Until I actually see imbalance in live games I don't see what all the complaining is about. It is the most exciting map since the introduction of daybreak.
On December 17 2012 22:46 Zeon0 wrote: gold level Terran theorycrafts about Zerg strategies on a map he never played on and saw like two TvZs? good stuff!
Really ? So Gold players can't have opinions ? He said he supposed a thing and people bashing him... Not really nice.
On December 18 2012 00:10 Salteador Neo wrote: Yeah that map would be horrible in an individual league. But here where teams can chose who to send, having fun "new" maps like this is awesome and makes for interesting strats
I'm intrigued. Please enlighten us on what kind of "interesting strats" you have in mind!
Well it's not SC2 but there were a lot of great games in BW on it. Savior did his part, UpMagic (dat Supply depot). Or if i remember correctly (i'm not really sure). There was a PvP with cool Dark Archon. Who was it ? I can't recall (no that was not Jaehoon)
But yes it is NOT a balanced map. None of the KESPA BW maps were (can't think of one). Also there was cool games on Blood Bath :p (MBC Game attack i think). I really think that stupid maps like that serves to entertain the public. And when some zerg will pull of his hat a crazy strat to do it will be so cool
I remember that the imbalance on some maps made cool strats. For exemple the barracks behind the mineral line from Boxer against... euh... no don't remember. A protoss. Boxer was really good at studying map. When all maps are balanced you always see the same thing over and over again. (i'm exagerating of course)
[QUOTE] Wtf? Okay, it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, but at least most BW maps that stayed popular had the decency to have close to 50% win ratios for each matchup.
Not saying certain SC2 maps don't, but I think it's fair to say that crap maps are crap maps, and it's stupid to let a map like this fly by saying "ooh, but...interesting strats!" That's pretty stupid when considering the best strats are pulled off on maps that are fairly balanced. [/QUOTE]
Yeah i know what you mean. Sorry i'm not really good at expressing myself in english. I'll try another round
What i meant that a lot of Kespa BW maps were not balanced for everyrace. You had some stuff like : "Siege tank heaven" but in another expo you had the "zerglings runbys impossible to defend etc...". It was not all simetrical and produced great games.
Even with those unbalanced they were like you said more solid ratios. But when a map couldn't be that good it will last only one season.
Am i clearer ? Or is it more blurry than my first post ?
On December 18 2012 05:41 ChApFoU wrote: Arkanoïd still has produced funnier games from a viewer's perspective than most of blizzard's maps. If it was so obviously imbalanced proteams wouldn't send a zerg on it.
I've never enjoyed watching proSC2 that much since the new proleague and most of it is due to the new maps. Besides, these are the first sc2 maps ever that Kespa makes so let's give them a chance.
On December 17 2012 22:46 Zeon0 wrote: gold level Terran theorycrafts about Zerg strategies on a map he never played on and saw like two TvZs? good stuff!
Really ? So Gold players can't have opinions ? He said he supposed a thing and people bashing him... Not really nice.
On December 18 2012 00:10 Salteador Neo wrote: Yeah that map would be horrible in an individual league. But here where teams can chose who to send, having fun "new" maps like this is awesome and makes for interesting strats
I'm intrigued. Please enlighten us on what kind of "interesting strats" you have in mind!
Well it's not SC2 but there were a lot of great games in BW on it. Savior did his part, UpMagic (dat Supply depot). Or if i remember correctly (i'm not really sure). There was a PvP with cool Dark Archon. Who was it ? I can't recall (no that was not Jaehoon)
But yes it is NOT a balanced map. None of the KESPA BW maps were (can't think of one). Also there was cool games on Blood Bath :p (MBC Game attack i think). I really think that stupid maps like that serves to entertain the public. And when some zerg will pull of his hat a crazy strat to do it will be so cool
I remember that the imbalance on some maps made cool strats. For exemple the barracks behind the mineral line from Boxer against... euh... no don't remember. A protoss. Boxer was really good at studying map. When all maps are balanced you always see the same thing over and over again. (i'm exagerating of course)
Wtf? Okay, it doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, but at least most BW maps that stayed popular had the decency to have close to 50% win ratios for each matchup.
Not saying certain SC2 maps don't, but I think it's fair to say that crap maps are crap maps, and it's stupid to let a map like this fly by saying "ooh, but...interesting strats!" That's pretty stupid when considering the best strats are pulled off on maps that are fairly balanced.
Yeah i know what you mean. Sorry i'm not really good at expressing myself in english. I'll try another round
What i meant that a lot of Kespa BW maps were not balanced for everyrace. You had some stuff like : "Siege tank heaven" but in another expo you had the "zerglings runbys impossible to defend etc...". It was not all simetrical and produced great games.
Even with those unbalanced they were like you said more solid ratios. But when a map couldn't be that good it will last only one season.
Am i clearer ? Or is it more blurry than my first post ?
I like Arkanoid because it's different than all the other maps and produces unique games that would never happen otherwise. Watching the same build orders on the same maps over and over again is exactly why I stopped watching Sc2. I appreciate that KeSPA is trying to liven up the game. Balance is not a factor in my enjoyment of the games played on any map.
Also, it's not as bad as Battle Royal or some other past proleague maps... Paranoid Android also comes to mind.
On December 19 2012 01:40 Sinensis wrote: I like Arkanoid because it's different than all the other maps and produces unique games that would never happen otherwise. Watching the same build orders on the same maps over and over again is exactly why I stopped watching Sc2. I appreciate that KeSPA is trying to liven up the game. Balance is not a factor in my enjoyment of the games played on any map.
Also, it's not as bad as Battle Royal or some other past proleague maps... Paranoid Android also comes to mind.
Battle Royal was so bad that even as a zerg player I hated it. -_-
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0Ub6N.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/30/Writers_Icon.png/15px-Writers_Icon.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Kr.png)
Korean Stream![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/c/c6/Uk.png)
twitch.tv![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/0/0c/Vlc_ico.png)
VLC Stream: http://hd.ognp2p.gscdn.com/ognsdlive![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xoy5F.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LBr19.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/muOnU.png)
Speed <Tal'Darim Altar> 
s2
BeSt![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l5YZ8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WdLE8.png)
