EPTOn November 17 2012 18:20 covetousrat wrote:
I have to agree with 1 gate expo is a good build but it can still randomly lose to some all ins and pnix gate allin.
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On November 17 2012 18:13 Astro-Penguin wrote:
No you are completely wrong, if you cant scout 100% then don't even try to scout as its a huge risk. Again when facing a 4-Gate you simply either A) delay it with a 5 Stalker >Expo and proceed to crush it or B) sac your Nexus with the Zealot/Sentry > Expo and utilize your faster tech to your advantage. PvP is not luck based by any means, players choose to make it coinflip by doing rock paper scissors builds.
On November 17 2012 18:09 X3GoldDot wrote:
i am masters in NA only, but it still counts, also, i am saying its only 100% safe to expand once you see the robo or the opponent's nexus, doesnt mean you would normally see it. Also, 4 gate will insta kill a fast expanding player, so does a pure blink allin, this is why pvp is so coinflippy, mostly because you cant scout
On November 17 2012 18:07 Astro-Penguin wrote:
Fast expansions can defend every single build in the current meta game on maps where blink observer is weak, It is by no means greedy as you say. Word of advice, don't scout their base in PvP (Only scout for proxies) as the information you get from a probe scout is completely irrelevant. The extra influx of minerals you get allows you to just play blindly and in conjunction this allows you to efficiently defend both early aggression and latter tech oriented all ins.The advantage you get from fast expand basically gives you free wins/advantages vs both Phoenix/Robo macro plays.
The specific version of fast expand that Rain did is basically willing to sacrifice the nexus, the timings of his units allow him to defend any sort of gateway push that dosen't over commit on killing the nexus. In the scenario that he cannot hold the nexus he simply cancels it and has a huge advantage with quicker tech as the aggressor is committing a vast amount of his resources that only correlates into forcing a nexus cancel. (FF should prevent him from outright killing you)
Not sure what league you are in but in no scenario should you ever be able to reactively fast expand after scouting a Robo considering they should never let your probe see it to begin with.
On November 17 2012 17:55 X3GoldDot wrote:
fast expanding most solid build my ass lol, its probably the least solid build and most greedy one at that..... you only fast expand if you scout a robo......
On November 17 2012 17:54 Astro-Penguin wrote:
Yeah its kind of amazing how blind sided people are, I don't mean to be elitist or anything but fast expand is the most solid build you can do in PvP. Missing a FF has nothing to do with how good a build is.
On November 17 2012 17:53 MangoMountain wrote:
Or remember to FF
On November 17 2012 17:52 shabby wrote:
You should stop fast expanding in PvP then.
On November 17 2012 17:48 Astro-Penguin wrote:
That looks like 50% of my PvP losses....
That looks like 50% of my PvP losses....
You should stop fast expanding in PvP then.
Or remember to FF
Yeah its kind of amazing how blind sided people are, I don't mean to be elitist or anything but fast expand is the most solid build you can do in PvP. Missing a FF has nothing to do with how good a build is.
fast expanding most solid build my ass lol, its probably the least solid build and most greedy one at that..... you only fast expand if you scout a robo......
Fast expansions can defend every single build in the current meta game on maps where blink observer is weak, It is by no means greedy as you say. Word of advice, don't scout their base in PvP (Only scout for proxies) as the information you get from a probe scout is completely irrelevant. The extra influx of minerals you get allows you to just play blindly and in conjunction this allows you to efficiently defend both early aggression and latter tech oriented all ins.The advantage you get from fast expand basically gives you free wins/advantages vs both Phoenix/Robo macro plays.
The specific version of fast expand that Rain did is basically willing to sacrifice the nexus, the timings of his units allow him to defend any sort of gateway push that dosen't over commit on killing the nexus. In the scenario that he cannot hold the nexus he simply cancels it and has a huge advantage with quicker tech as the aggressor is committing a vast amount of his resources that only correlates into forcing a nexus cancel. (FF should prevent him from outright killing you)
Not sure what league you are in but in no scenario should you ever be able to reactively fast expand after scouting a Robo considering they should never let your probe see it to begin with.
i am masters in NA only, but it still counts, also, i am saying its only 100% safe to expand once you see the robo or the opponent's nexus, doesnt mean you would normally see it. Also, 4 gate will insta kill a fast expanding player, so does a pure blink allin, this is why pvp is so coinflippy, mostly because you cant scout
No you are completely wrong, if you cant scout 100% then don't even try to scout as its a huge risk. Again when facing a 4-Gate you simply either A) delay it with a 5 Stalker >Expo and proceed to crush it or B) sac your Nexus with the Zealot/Sentry > Expo and utilize your faster tech to your advantage. PvP is not luck based by any means, players choose to make it coinflip by doing rock paper scissors builds.
I have to agree with 1 gate expo is a good build but it can still randomly lose to some all ins and pnix gate allin.
Yeah you actually can't do 1 Gate expo on Daybreak and expect to hold a blind Phoenix 4 Gate, you need a smaller choke like Ohana where you can wall off on time.
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