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699 Posts
Saturday, Oct 20 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
EU: Saturday, Oct 20 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZVpdT.jpg)
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So sorry Lowely. 
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Division 5 spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
MMA got the walkover vs Nightend? I had only heard the match was postponed.
Go mana, dark, alicia ^_^
I'd be happy for Ganzi too but I just want him to stay in NASL at this point, while it would be good for Mana to make the playoffs.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
MaNa
Dark
HerO
Beastyqt
Those are my predictions though there are gonna be reschedules like always a well cant be helped.
Though I predict MaNa to win I really hope GanZi picks it up again. And I want Dark to do good so he has more appeal for teams.
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Mana 2-1
Dark 2-0
Hero 2-0
Alicia 2-1
Seems like my picks agree with some of the above posters. But these match ups are pretty easy to pick and feel confidant in.
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699 Posts
Match list updated + MaNa vs Dark make-up 
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On October 20 2012 06:25 NASL.tv wrote:Match list updated + MaNa vs Dark make-up
When will HerO vs Strelok be played(make-up from last week as well)?
Great matches anyway, hopefully they will all happen.
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Mana, Lowely, Strelok and Beasty FIGHTING!!!!!
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On October 20 2012 06:33 CrazyBirdman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:25 NASL.tv wrote:Match list updated + MaNa vs Dark make-up When will HerO vs Strelok be played(make-up from last week as well)? Great matches anyway, hopefully they will all happen.
I would say odds are very high these will all happen as they are all Euro vs Korea and as such are unlikely to be played live (or close to).
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On October 20 2012 06:33 CrazyBirdman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 06:25 NASL.tv wrote:Match list updated + MaNa vs Dark make-up When will HerO vs Strelok be played(make-up from last week as well)? Great matches anyway, hopefully they will all happen.
Even better question: When will HuK vs Hasuobs finally happen?
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Gotta stop by and say... you guys are doing it right. You made me wish I was in the LA/Orange County area so I could order food.
Loved that commercial, and you guys are doing really well with wall of sponsors. Now let's get some good games going!
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Dark>MaNa
Dark>Strelok
GanZi>MaNa
Alicia>BeastyQt
Hero>LoweLy
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Did Ganzi recover from his injuries already?
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Another day of Korean vs Foreigner.
Scarlett predicting all korean.
I think Mana should win vs Ganzi who has not completely recovered yet. (I mean recovered to his old strength, don't know about injury)
Beasty has a shot against Alicia.
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can u blame her? the foreigners with the most chance of winning are beasty and lowely imo but the odds are in favor of koreans by a huge margin
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
I don't think I've seen anyone deal with mech like this, I'll give it a shot.
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I really hope a good team picks up Dark when he's available. His play is really solid. (Even if he is Zerg.) It's almost like he's playing terran with all those infested terrans.
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On October 20 2012 11:25 felisconcolori wrote:
I really hope a good team picks up Dark when he's available. His play is really solid. (Even if he is Zerg.) It's almost like he's playing terran with all those infested terrans.
Slayers has alot of talented players. Brown, Arthur, Miya, Dark are all unpolished gems. My ultimate hope is for Jessica to revoke her decision to disband Slayers and continue to groom this players into A teamers.
P/S: However, another game proves that infestor is just too good. basically it counters everything when they are massed.
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On October 20 2012 11:25 felisconcolori wrote:
I really hope a good team picks up Dark when he's available. His play is really solid. (Even if he is Zerg.) It's almost like he's playing terran with all those infested terrans.
To TSL with him! (or maybe Acer)
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infestors are just ridonculous
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What a silly game. Dark was essentially dead, but just built infestors. Still good night for him.
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This should be included in Zerg's Tutorial: Thats how you counter Mech in ZvT
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Dark couldn't have asked for a better day.
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United States1511 Posts
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Damn I would rather they removed overplayed maps like Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
I Just tuned in nice results by Dark should boost his chance of getting a team if he continues with good results.
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Neo-steel frame, the solution to all our problems. How could we not have seen this?
NASL always being fun yet professional. PvTs are fun.
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Gotta say, I'm not exactly sure what Frodan was trying to say there. Hero is most certainly top 5 as a toss at this point, right? In terms of consistency, he's remained in Code S for a long time (moreso than Creator or Yonghwa), and he's been around longer than Seed (and had more success overseas). The only people I see who are truly comparable are MC or Rain (who's still not totally proven, but appears to be a complete monster).
Top 5 I'd say are
1. MC
2. Hero
3. Rain (will be 2nd and closing on 1st if he wins the OSL)
4. Seed (close to 2nd or 3rd cause of that GSL)
5. Squirtle ( a few more wins makes him a GSL and IPL winner, with fairly consistent results in general)
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It's really silly that Lowley is even in this at all. We've spent the last 10 minutes watching Hero destroy him with nonstop multitasking and drops and it doesn't even matter. Vortex or missed vortex and that's all that actually matters.
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On October 20 2012 13:54 Swords wrote:
It's really silly that Lowley is even in this at all. We've spent the last 10 minutes watching Hero destroy him with nonstop multitasking and drops and it doesn't even matter. Vortex or missed vortex and that's all that actually matters.
It's not like he was crushing him for free. He invested so much into that harassment and really it came out pretty even because Lowely defended well. But yes, this is lategame PvZ, just how it is.
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.........what am i watching...
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lategame pvz is amazing, it truly rewards skill :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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On October 20 2012 14:00 GreyKnight wrote:
lategame pvz is amazing, it truly rewards skill :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
..................okay................really? It's quite the challenge for toss man
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On October 20 2012 14:02 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:00 GreyKnight wrote:
lategame pvz is amazing, it truly rewards skill :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ..................okay................really? It's quite the challenge for toss man
Obvious troll is obvious.
HerO NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Thats so painful to watch... 3 lousy infested terrans lost him the game. More like PvZ lost him the game. Two of the big reasons listed in Gretorp's post came into play here..... the Mothership being way too depended upon and completely controlling the tide of the end-game battles in PvZ. And also the fact that infested terrans are 0 supply and with upgrades just demolish everything including +3+3 stalkers.
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Why did Lowely do nothing after he sniped the mothership with the 3 infested terrans heroes? Literally all HerO had was some archons and stalkers. Lowely had probably 10+ BL, 20+ infestors, and some corruptors. He could have pushed forward and really forced HerO out of the middle or even won, instead fell back and allowed HerO time to get another mothership out and build up energy for more vortex, which later cost him 20 Brood Lords even after escaping the vortex
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what
Stacked Broodlords -> Money Vortex -> No Broodlords Die
Blink under 20+ Broodlords w/ Infestor Support -> All Broodlords Die
Zerg wins anyway.
what
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On October 20 2012 13:57 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:54 Swords wrote:
It's really silly that Lowley is even in this at all. We've spent the last 10 minutes watching Hero destroy him with nonstop multitasking and drops and it doesn't even matter. Vortex or missed vortex and that's all that actually matters. It's not like he was crushing him for free. He invested so much into that harassment and really it came out pretty even because Lowely defended well. But yes, this is lategame PvZ, just how it is.
I disagree. HerO killed tons of drones. He sniped a ton of queens. He killed the Greater Spire, Hive, Infestation Pit. He killed macro hatches. To do this he used mostly minerals, which at that point in the game are a wash compared to gas. Killing a tremendous amount of economy and tech like that should cripple your opponent far more than losing the minerals HerO did - and yes, he did lose a lot of minerals.
Then he managed to kill Lowley's army without even using a vortex and still lost the game despite outplaying him at every point.
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U guys knows this game is totally broken and make any sense, this wont be fixed, lets hope that blizzard do something better in HOTS, so stop whining or go play other game.
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On October 20 2012 14:03 Probasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:02 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On October 20 2012 14:00 GreyKnight wrote:
lategame pvz is amazing, it truly rewards skill :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ..................okay................really? It's quite the challenge for toss man Obvious troll is obvious. HerO NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Thats so painful to watch... 3 lousy infested terrans lost him the game. More like PvZ lost him the game. Two of the big reasons listed in Gretorp's post came into play here..... the Mothership being way too depended upon and completely controlling the tide of the end-game battles in PvZ. And also the fact that infested terrans are 0 supply and with upgrades just demolish everything including +3+3 stalkers.
What....you're calling me a troll for saying PvZ lategame is tough for most tosses? You're kidding right?
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On October 20 2012 14:04 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:57 YoungTyTy wrote:On October 20 2012 13:54 Swords wrote:
It's really silly that Lowley is even in this at all. We've spent the last 10 minutes watching Hero destroy him with nonstop multitasking and drops and it doesn't even matter. Vortex or missed vortex and that's all that actually matters. It's not like he was crushing him for free. He invested so much into that harassment and really it came out pretty even because Lowely defended well. But yes, this is lategame PvZ, just how it is. I disagree. HerO killed tons of drones. He sniped a ton of queens. He killed the Greater Spire, Hive, Infestation Pit. He killed macro hatches. To do this he used mostly minerals, which at that point in the game are a wash compared to gas. Killing a tremendous amount of economy and tech like that should cripple your opponent far more than losing the minerals HerO did - and yes, he did lose a lot of minerals. Then he managed to kill Lowley's army without even using a vortex and still lost the game despite outplaying him at every point.
Okay he killed all of the tech buildings, that's great. Except he wasn't killing the main army which continued to grow and at that point was already at a pretty stable level (around 10 or so broods). You can kill every single tech structure zerg has but if they already have their deathball you don't just auto win, and realistically you can rebuild most of those tech structures within 4 or 5 minutes of gametime.
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On October 20 2012 14:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:03 Probasaur wrote:On October 20 2012 14:02 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On October 20 2012 14:00 GreyKnight wrote:
lategame pvz is amazing, it truly rewards skill :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ..................okay................really? It's quite the challenge for toss man Obvious troll is obvious. HerO NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Thats so painful to watch... 3 lousy infested terrans lost him the game. More like PvZ lost him the game. Two of the big reasons listed in Gretorp's post came into play here..... the Mothership being way too depended upon and completely controlling the tide of the end-game battles in PvZ. And also the fact that infested terrans are 0 supply and with upgrades just demolish everything including +3+3 stalkers. What....you're calling me a troll for saying PvZ lategame is tough for most tosses? You're kidding right?
I think he was saying that you missed the sarcasm in the post you responded to.
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On October 20 2012 14:07 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On October 20 2012 14:03 Probasaur wrote:On October 20 2012 14:02 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On October 20 2012 14:00 GreyKnight wrote:
lategame pvz is amazing, it truly rewards skill :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ..................okay................really? It's quite the challenge for toss man Obvious troll is obvious. HerO NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Thats so painful to watch... 3 lousy infested terrans lost him the game. More like PvZ lost him the game. Two of the big reasons listed in Gretorp's post came into play here..... the Mothership being way too depended upon and completely controlling the tide of the end-game battles in PvZ. And also the fact that infested terrans are 0 supply and with upgrades just demolish everything including +3+3 stalkers. What....you're calling me a troll for saying PvZ lategame is tough for most tosses? You're kidding right? I think he was saying that you missed the sarcasm in the post you responded to.
Oh haha got it. My bad.
Cmon Hero, 2-base him.
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Just tuning in, nice to see Dark winning so much. Hope he can join a good team (preferrably Axiom) to develop his talent more.
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Omg Hero.....don't let this go late game again like last game....
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After owning that warp prism by Hero, Lowely could tech to drop and probably just run over Hero before Colossi are out in number. Hero's still making immortals but hydras are out.
He's not getting drop yet though, and the robo bay finally started.
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Calling it. Lowely over Hero.
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On October 20 2012 14:06 Gojira621 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:04 Swords wrote:On October 20 2012 13:57 YoungTyTy wrote:On October 20 2012 13:54 Swords wrote:
It's really silly that Lowley is even in this at all. We've spent the last 10 minutes watching Hero destroy him with nonstop multitasking and drops and it doesn't even matter. Vortex or missed vortex and that's all that actually matters. It's not like he was crushing him for free. He invested so much into that harassment and really it came out pretty even because Lowely defended well. But yes, this is lategame PvZ, just how it is. I disagree. HerO killed tons of drones. He sniped a ton of queens. He killed the Greater Spire, Hive, Infestation Pit. He killed macro hatches. To do this he used mostly minerals, which at that point in the game are a wash compared to gas. Killing a tremendous amount of economy and tech like that should cripple your opponent far more than losing the minerals HerO did - and yes, he did lose a lot of minerals. Then he managed to kill Lowley's army without even using a vortex and still lost the game despite outplaying him at every point. Okay he killed all of the tech buildings, that's great. Except he wasn't killing the main army which continued to grow and at that point was already at a pretty stable level (around 10 or so broods). You can kill every single tech structure zerg has but if they already have their deathball you don't just auto win, and realistically you can rebuild most of those tech structures within 4 or 5 minutes of gametime.
Obviously you shouldn't auto-win, but you should be able to trade armies at that point - as happens in PvT/TvP/TvT. The problem with PvZ is you can do tremendous amounts of damage, but if Zerg has a Broodlord/Infestor army you cannot trade with it no matter the damage you do (army trading being one of the more exciting parts of the game - leads to nonstop action like in early/mid TvZ, etc.). You have to hit the vortex and destroy it in a few archon shots and the game is over - the winner depending on who hits the vortex or if it's missed or not. That's poor game design.
The problem I have is that once the Zerg gets a certain critical number of Broods/Infestors there stops being any reason for the Zerg to attack. They can just wait for the Protoss to attack into spines or make their Mamaship vulnerable to NP (something Lowely didn't even do, but better Zergs do though). That's really boring to watch, and frustrating to see when an opponent destroys a tremendous amount of economy/tech and it doesn't even matter.
Note, I have no problem with Zergs winning - I'm a huge Life fan for example. However, I hate watching PvZ. It's either a boring turtle-fest on both sides. A boring Protoss all-in. Or an interesting Protoss harass game into whatever happened in the first 45 mins of the game not mattering at all.
Also, sorry for all the ranting, these games just drive me nuts to watch, maybe I need to take a step back.
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lol Gretorp shouting about how lowely has no time to macro up while Lowely is at 200 supply...
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Thankyou Swords, you kind sir you.
And wow, there's another major point made by either Gretorp or Grubby recently, or maybe both. The unforgiving zergling run-by that is infinite in damage when you account for the positioning of HerO's army allowing Lowley to take prime position on his 3rd and kill all his collosi. Really sad to see. Lowely is performing superbly, still tho..... HerO played so well in these games, and after killing all the broodlords and then all the infestors in the 3rd game he was ahead. Then just to lose to a run-by is really disheartening.
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Wow, did not expect that result.
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On October 20 2012 14:23 Probasaur wrote:
Thankyou Swords, you kind sir you.
And wow, there's another major point made by either Gretorp or Grubby recently, or maybe both. The unforgiving zergling run-by that is infinite in damage when you account for the positioning of HerO's army allowing Lowley to take prime position on his 3rd and kill all his collosi. Really sad to see. Lowely is performing superbly, still tho.
Protoss can warp in units anywhere.
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That is absurd. Major grats Lowely for the big win. Inb4 his victory over HerO is crushed under posts about PvZ, latency, "Hero was tired" etc
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Lowely! Didn't see that one coming.
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ZvP nowadays is disgusting. You either win an all-in as P or the game just drags out incredibly boringly.
To be honest, even though I did not like the tempest design when it was announced, now I can't wait for it to come out. I think the tempest will be the one essential unit for protoss to take initiative against a zerg in the late game, since it can snipe broods from a million miles away.
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On October 20 2012 14:24 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:23 Probasaur wrote:
Thankyou Swords, you kind sir you.
And wow, there's another major point made by either Gretorp or Grubby recently, or maybe both. The unforgiving zergling run-by that is infinite in damage when you account for the positioning of HerO's army allowing Lowley to take prime position on his 3rd and kill all his collosi. Really sad to see. Lowely is performing superbly, still tho. Protoss can warp in units anywhere.
Okay? That costs a plethora of minerals and warpgate cooldown time. Two very expensive and valuable resources no matter how late the game is. And all it costs zerg is very few minerals and supply for the amount of lings, which we all know minerals and lings are cheap and not at all valued highly. Especially when he has more larvae then he needs.... especially when maxed.
On October 20 2012 14:26 snowfox330 wrote:
ZvP nowadays is disgusting. You either win an all-in as P or the game just drags out incredibly boringly.
To be honest, even though I did not like the tempest design when it was announced, now I can't wait for it to come out. I think the tempest will be the one essential unit for protoss to take initiative against a zerg in the late game, since it can snipe broods from a million miles away.
Don't forget about turtle zergs who do nothing but mass spines and yawn until you die from boredom and getting poked.
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On October 20 2012 14:23 Probasaur wrote:
Thankyou Swords, you kind sir you.
And wow, there's another major point made by either Gretorp or Grubby recently, or maybe both. The unforgiving zergling run-by that is infinite in damage when you account for the positioning of HerO's army allowing Lowley to take prime position on his 3rd and kill all his collosi. Really sad to see. Lowely is performing superbly, still tho..... HerO played so well in these games, and after killing all the broodlords and then all the infestors in the 3rd game he was ahead. Then just to lose to a run-by is really disheartening.
I'm a T so I hate both zerg and toss, but complaining about ling runbys is a little petty in my opinion. Sure, toss has no harass early game, but look at all the games. Multiple warp prism and zealots snipe everything. Zergs had to respond by spining and sporing their bases. Why should toss get a free pass? Drop cannons and a few zlots.
Late late game zerg vs toss is kinda coinflippy on vortex vs mass blord and something should be changed, but saying ling runbys is op is kinda...
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On October 20 2012 14:28 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:23 Probasaur wrote:
Thankyou Swords, you kind sir you.
And wow, there's another major point made by either Gretorp or Grubby recently, or maybe both. The unforgiving zergling run-by that is infinite in damage when you account for the positioning of HerO's army allowing Lowley to take prime position on his 3rd and kill all his collosi. Really sad to see. Lowely is performing superbly, still tho..... HerO played so well in these games, and after killing all the broodlords and then all the infestors in the 3rd game he was ahead. Then just to lose to a run-by is really disheartening. I'm a T so I hate both zerg and toss, but complaining about ling runbys is a little petty in my opinion. Sure, toss has no harass early game, but look at all the games. Multiple warp prism and zealots snipe everything. Zergs had to respond by spining and sporing their bases. Why should toss get a free pass? Drop cannons and a few zlots. Late late game zerg vs toss is kinda coinflippy on vortex vs mass blord and something should be changed, but saying ling runbys is op is kinda...
This. Just don't be lazy and put a zealot back in your wall. I mean good lord.
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On October 20 2012 14:28 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 14:23 Probasaur wrote:
Thankyou Swords, you kind sir you.
And wow, there's another major point made by either Gretorp or Grubby recently, or maybe both. The unforgiving zergling run-by that is infinite in damage when you account for the positioning of HerO's army allowing Lowley to take prime position on his 3rd and kill all his collosi. Really sad to see. Lowely is performing superbly, still tho..... HerO played so well in these games, and after killing all the broodlords and then all the infestors in the 3rd game he was ahead. Then just to lose to a run-by is really disheartening. I'm a T so I hate both zerg and toss, but complaining about ling runbys is a little petty in my opinion. Sure, toss has no harass early game, but look at all the games. Multiple warp prism and zealots snipe everything. Zergs had to respond by spining and sporing their bases. Why should toss get a free pass? Drop cannons and a few zlots. Late late game zerg vs toss is kinda coinflippy on vortex vs mass blord and something should be changed, but saying ling runbys is op is kinda...
Never said it was OP. I just wanted to echo the sentiment made by Grubby or Gretorp (or maybe both I forget) that the defense for run bys is nonexistant. Cannons and zealots both fall in instants to a few hundred minerals worth of lings. The only way to prevent is wall-offs which HerO did utilize with a zealot... still the hold position failed him or it wasn't activated... either way having 1 hold position unit as your only practical, barely dependable form of keeping run-by's away is not nearly as ideal as a few very, very powerful spine crawlers... or supply depots that raise along with a few very, very powerful tanks or bunkers. Both repairable.
Edit : He had a zealot there if you were watching you would have seen the lings squeezed by regardless..... as they are very well known to do.
Glad Lowely won even if it did have to be against HerO's perfect record. Lets hope he can stay in it for next season.
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Lowely has 2 matches left, Strelok and Beasty, if he wins both of those,he has a chance of staying for season 5.
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What, Lowely won. Wow, unexpected. Went to watch OSL after HerO's first win.
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Again, I want to stress that my point is PvZ makes for frustrating and/or boring games to watch.
I haven't played Starcraft 2 in awhile now, but I follow the pro-scene closely as I enjoy it the same way I enjoy many sports. I have absolutely no credibility when I make claims about balance - so when I do you can feel free to tell me to STFU.
However, as a viewer/fan/spectator I find the game becoming harder and harder to watch. Most PvZ matches rely on Vortex/Neural/2 Base All-in. TvZ, which used to be amazing has become way less exciting to me due to the queen patch. Perhaps the game (TvZ) is more balanced, but the once crazy early game that played out on a razor's edge is completely gone.
It's hard, because I like the players and see so many flashes of brilliance (Symbol's Ultra/Bane/Festor armies, Rain's next level play, Maru's insane Marauder Micro), however, these seem to only be flashes (aside from Rain maybe). The game right now doesn't allow for the situations I outlined above - where one player just outplays the other. There are too many gimmicky spells, BO wins, and poor game design in general for there to regularly be games where someone just out micros/macros the opponent. Watching Rain play PvP has been a breath of fresh air in that regard, because he wins games he has no business of winning simply by "out-Starcrafting" his opponent.
tl;dr - This game is frequently tough to watch as a spectator nowadays. I write too long posts and should probably just blog.
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Sometimes i say some stupid shit... haha but gj to lowely i can't believe he did that. He looked really dominant against hero game 3 and it was great to watch
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On October 20 2012 14:40 Gretorp wrote:Sometimes i say some stupid shit... haha but gj to lowely i can't believe he did that. He looked really dominant against hero game 3 and it was great to watch
Fair. Otherwise I very much enjoyed this evening's cast! And you may or may not have given my team a shoutout the other night, so all's forgiven! 
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