• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:27
CEST 15:27
KST 22:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)77Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
[Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Bot on ladder BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy returning?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6998 users

[WCS] Asian Finals Day 2 - Page 98

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 96 97 98 99 100 104 Next
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
October 14 2012 12:40 GMT
#1941
On October 14 2012 21:25 ElephantBaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:
On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold.


Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup?


It is still a coinflip match-up.
It really depends on who get the better build order.

Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins.


Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard.

By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now.


People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.


I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years.

There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings, that's called trick play.


I think the thing that really stands out about Rain is that he almost never makes any 'big' mistakes. Of course, he has insane micro and macro as well but so do many of the top Protoss players. But you still see some blunders by them more often.

Something that is slightly off topic. Who shows more emotion? Rain or Curious?
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
October 14 2012 12:42 GMT
#1942
On October 14 2012 21:40 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:25 ElephantBaby wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:
On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold.


Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup?


It is still a coinflip match-up.
It really depends on who get the better build order.

Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins.


Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard.

By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now.


People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.


I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years.

There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings, that's called trick play.


I think the thing that really stands out about Rain is that he almost never makes any 'big' mistakes. Of course, he has insane micro and macro as well but so do many of the top Protoss players. But you still see some blunders by them more often.

Something that is slightly off topic. Who shows more emotion? Rain or Curious?


Sun easily shows more emotion.
Play your best
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
October 14 2012 12:44 GMT
#1943
On October 14 2012 21:42 FakeDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:40 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:25 ElephantBaby wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:
On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold.


Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup?


It is still a coinflip match-up.
It really depends on who get the better build order.

Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins.


Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard.

By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now.


People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.


I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years.

There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings, that's called trick play.


I think the thing that really stands out about Rain is that he almost never makes any 'big' mistakes. Of course, he has insane micro and macro as well but so do many of the top Protoss players. But you still see some blunders by them more often.

Something that is slightly off topic. Who shows more emotion? Rain or Curious?


Sun easily shows more emotion.


Did you see him he just won his match? He looked like he won a ladder game...
lolmlg
Profile Joined November 2011
619 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-14 12:46:36
October 14 2012 12:44 GMT
#1944
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17750 Posts
October 14 2012 12:49 GMT
#1945
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.

I like how bonjwa is above god lol
"Expert" mods4ever.com
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
October 14 2012 12:50 GMT
#1946
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Honestly, even though they're both my favourite players at the moment (and I've been a huge Mvp fan for a long time) I still think that it would be a bit ridiculous to call either of them a bonjwa. Maybe if Heart of the Swarm were to be delayed a year, and one of the two would keep slaughtering nerds left and right until the expansion's release, maybe then I would agree with the idea.

Until then, Mvp is the best player in Wings of Liberty overall and both of them are some of the best players right now, but I can't comfortably call either of them a real Bonjwa.

Maybe if HotS will last as long as WoL did until LotV comes out... I don't know, only time will tell.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-14 12:53:24
October 14 2012 12:50 GMT
#1947
I don't think It's fair to say " Mvp crashed out of the OSL in the group stages " the games were bo1 and he went 1-2, single elimination best of five Mvp is a completely different monster, I believe someone posted the stats on his record in bo5's and bo7's and it was something like 85% set winrate.

not gonna comment on the bonjwa stuff, cause It's silly.

Consider that if the GSL semi finals were bo1's or even bo3's Rain would have advanced instead of Mvp, or that if the OSL Semi Finals were bo5 instead of bo7 Last would have 3-0'd Rain.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
October 14 2012 12:51 GMT
#1948
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
October 14 2012 12:53 GMT
#1949
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
October 14 2012 12:55 GMT
#1950
rain world champ!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354772
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
October 14 2012 12:56 GMT
#1951
On October 14 2012 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something


it was created for savior, and then it was given to boxer nada and oov later on, retrospectively.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46498 Posts
October 14 2012 12:58 GMT
#1952
Congratulations to Rain! It's too bad he couldn't win GSL too.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
October 14 2012 12:59 GMT
#1953
On October 14 2012 21:56 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something


it was created for savior, and then it was given to boxer nada and oov later on, retrospectively.


Actually it did originate with JulyZerg, but it got its current meaning during Ma Bonjwa's reign. After that came the era of TaekBangLeeSsang, which FlaSh broke when he transcended into his god form.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
October 14 2012 12:59 GMT
#1954
How fucking long will I have to wait for a herO vs HerO match?
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
October 14 2012 13:00 GMT
#1955
On October 14 2012 21:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:56 Dodgin wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something


it was created for savior, and then it was given to boxer nada and oov later on, retrospectively.


Actually it did originate with JulyZerg, but it got its current meaning during Ma Bonjwa's reign. After that came the era of TaekBangLeeSsang, which FlaSh broke when he transcended into his god form.


" get its meaning " is what I meant by " created " guess I could have worded it better
lolmlg
Profile Joined November 2011
619 Posts
October 14 2012 13:03 GMT
#1956
On October 14 2012 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something

It described Savior but it's really too late to get uptight about it, it's been applied to lots of people and there isn't much reason why it shouldn't be if the circumstances are right.

On October 14 2012 21:50 Dodgin wrote:
I don't think It's fair to say " Mvp crashed out of the OSL in the group stages " the games were bo1 and he went 1-2, single elimination best of five Mvp is a completely different monster, I believe someone posted the stats on his record in bo5's and bo7's and it was something like 85% set winrate.

not gonna comment on the bonjwa stuff, cause It's silly.

Consider that if the GSL semi finals were bo1's or even bo3's Rain would have advanced instead of Mvp, or that if the OSL Semi Finals were bo5 instead of bo7 Last would have 3-0'd Rain.

Round robin is not "best of one". And you can't just subtract games from a series and say that another player would have won. But my point was at least related to what you've written at the bottom of your post. What if Rain versus MVP had been a best of seven? The answer is an emphatic "who knows?", right? As long as it's "who knows?" then the bonjwa people have a problem.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
October 14 2012 13:06 GMT
#1957
On October 14 2012 22:03 lolmlg wrote:
Round robin is not "best of one". And you can't just subtract games from a series and say that another player would have won. But my point was at least related to what you've written at the bottom of your post. What if Rain versus MVP had been a best of seven? The answer is an emphatic "who knows?", right? As long as it's "who knows?" then the bonjwa people have a problem.

well, if last-rain was a bo5, then it would be last 3-0 rain

imagine if inca-nestea was a bo9 instead of a bo7, and inca came back from 4-0 down to winning 5-4 - > there's always that question, unlikely though it may be. yeah it seems likelier for rain to come back against last after 3 games down than inca against nestea 4 games down, but that's all in hindsight ;p last's timing pushes worked for 3 games and not for the last 4 - what if inca's DTs didn't work for 4 games but did for the last 5? lolol
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Zane
Profile Joined January 2011
Romania3916 Posts
October 14 2012 13:07 GMT
#1958
On October 14 2012 22:03 lolmlg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something

It described Savior but it's really too late to get uptight about it, it's been applied to lots of people and there isn't much reason why it shouldn't be if the circumstances are right.

Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:50 Dodgin wrote:
I don't think It's fair to say " Mvp crashed out of the OSL in the group stages " the games were bo1 and he went 1-2, single elimination best of five Mvp is a completely different monster, I believe someone posted the stats on his record in bo5's and bo7's and it was something like 85% set winrate.

not gonna comment on the bonjwa stuff, cause It's silly.

Consider that if the GSL semi finals were bo1's or even bo3's Rain would have advanced instead of Mvp, or that if the OSL Semi Finals were bo5 instead of bo7 Last would have 3-0'd Rain.

Round robin is not "best of one". And you can't just subtract games from a series and say that another player would have won. But my point was at least related to what you've written at the bottom of your post. What if Rain versus MVP had been a best of seven? The answer is an emphatic "who knows?", right? As long as it's "who knows?" then the bonjwa people have a problem.

Whatever, bonjwa is just a word. Mvp is still the most accomplished WoL player by far and it's unlikely that this will change until HotS comes out.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-14 13:08:48
October 14 2012 13:07 GMT
#1959
I'm not talking about that bonjwa term at all, you just shouldn't say someone " crashed " out of a league when they lost two bo1's, it's irrelevant if the format is dual tournament or round robin, the games are best of one, which is incredibly volatile. there's a reason GSL changed to bo3 group stages.

I mean, I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone actually cares that Mvp lost in OSL, because it was two bo1 TvP's.
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
October 14 2012 13:08 GMT
#1960
On October 14 2012 22:03 lolmlg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:53 X3GoldDot wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:51 vthree wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:44 lolmlg wrote:
On October 14 2012 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.

I'm not a big Bison fan or whatever, but I had a thought about this. A lot of people are trying to say that MVP will be the SC2 bonjwa if he wins the current GSL season, because he will have won five championships. Putting aside that it's an arbitrary number, bonjwa never had anything to do with numbers of championships. It was meant to describe a player that stood head and shoulders above the competition and dominated the game for a period of time. Nobody was comfortable calling Flash a bonjwa when he was constantly having a close series with Jaedong, because it cast doubt on the idea that he was dominant. Later on people called him "God" but Jaedong had to enter a brutal slump first.

MVP crashed out of the OSL during the group stages. His GSL semi-final series against Rain, which he narrowly won, occurred a single day after Rain's semi-final series against Last in the OSL, which Rain won. Rain's won WCS Asia and he could win the OSL. If he continues to post results in the near future, I don't think it will matter what MVP does. Because "bonjwa" isn't about being good, it's about being the only player on your level. If MVP versus Rain continues to be a nailbiter, MVP isn't a bonjwa.

But who knows, they may never meet in a tournament again.


Don't thing we should get too caught up with the term bonjwa. It was only created to describe one person. All the other 'bonjwas' were bestowed the title retrospectively.


didnt it originally come from julyzerg or something

It described Savior but it's really too late to get uptight about it, it's been applied to lots of people and there isn't much reason why it shouldn't be if the circumstances are right.

Show nested quote +
On October 14 2012 21:50 Dodgin wrote:
I don't think It's fair to say " Mvp crashed out of the OSL in the group stages " the games were bo1 and he went 1-2, single elimination best of five Mvp is a completely different monster, I believe someone posted the stats on his record in bo5's and bo7's and it was something like 85% set winrate.

not gonna comment on the bonjwa stuff, cause It's silly.

Consider that if the GSL semi finals were bo1's or even bo3's Rain would have advanced instead of Mvp, or that if the OSL Semi Finals were bo5 instead of bo7 Last would have 3-0'd Rain.

Round robin is not "best of one". And you can't just subtract games from a series and say that another player would have won. But my point was at least related to what you've written at the bottom of your post. What if Rain versus MVP had been a best of seven? The answer is an emphatic "who knows?", right? As long as it's "who knows?" then the bonjwa people have a problem.


I still don't understand why the bonjwa crowd is in such a hurry to crown Mvp bonjwa.

I mean, bonjwa is not a medal of honor, it is a title. You're not a good player because you're named bonjwa, you're a bonjwa because you're a good player. Everyone already knows Mvp is a god, so why do we need to give him a completely arbitrary title to recognize that?
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Prev 1 96 97 98 99 100 104 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
20:00
Kung Fu Cup Weekly #26
IntoTheiNu 1036
RotterdaM536
TKL 221
SteadfastSC201
Rex114
CosmosSc2 27
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 536
ByuN 284
TKL 212
SteadfastSC 201
Rex 114
CosmosSc2 27
Codebar 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38465
Shuttle 2406
Jaedong 1127
Horang2 873
Soulkey 490
Mini 391
EffOrt 361
Stork 347
Larva 272
Soma 234
[ Show more ]
actioN 224
BeSt 213
ZerO 206
Rush 187
Snow 181
Last 156
Mong 149
firebathero 133
Zeus 91
910 78
Free 75
Mind 74
Hyun 61
sorry 55
hero 47
PianO 47
Sharp 41
Yoon 40
JYJ 38
Shinee 36
Pusan 34
Shine 31
Hm[arnc] 30
Bale 30
Sexy 23
ToSsGirL 22
Aegong 21
HiyA 17
Terrorterran 12
scan(afreeca) 9
Sacsri 8
Noble 8
Rock 7
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc4370
Dendi1325
canceldota71
Counter-Strike
fl0m1169
edward34
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King171
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes533
Lowko338
Other Games
gofns77620
singsing2320
olofmeister1027
B2W.Neo329
hiko306
DeMusliM223
Livibee176
Pyrionflax163
Liquid`VortiX104
QueenE61
Trikslyr58
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1376
Other Games
BasetradeTV192
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream34
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH140
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1579
• Jankos1530
• TFBlade343
Other Games
• Shiphtur629
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
2h 33m
The PondCast
20h 33m
INu's Battles
21h 33m
Percival vs SHIN
Zoun vs herO
OSC
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 9h
OSC
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Patches Events
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.