|
On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now.
BW =/= SC2.
Even By.Sun admits PvP is coin-flippy and a plethora of other Korean pros.
By.Sun is no doubt currently the best PvP'er but the match-up is still coin-flippy.
|
Only 4 terrans in the world championships? 0-o
|
On October 14 2012 21:15 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. The game is evolving and it won't look the same next year. ZvZ used to be considered coin flip too but right now it's pretty skill based. I would say PvP is the hardest MU to figure out.
This time next year, probably no progamers will play WOL. We will never know.
|
Congratulations to SKT1Rain!!! By.Sun, you have come a long way, first championship of many to come! ^^
|
On October 14 2012 21:15 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. The game is evolving and it won't look the same next year. ZvZ used to be considered coin flip too but right now it's pretty skill based. I would say PvP is the hardest MU to figure out.
Rain did, impressively may I add.
|
On October 14 2012 21:17 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. BW =/= SC2. Even By.Sun admits PvP is coin-flippy and a plethora of other Korean pros. By.Sun is no doubt currently the best PvP'er but the match-up is still coin-flippy.
Nothing is equal, they are similar situations.
|
On October 14 2012 21:18 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:15 Wildmoon wrote:On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. The game is evolving and it won't look the same next year. ZvZ used to be considered coin flip too but right now it's pretty skill based. I would say PvP is the hardest MU to figure out. This time next year, probably no progamers will play WOL. We will never know.
oh I forgot about HotS. lol
|
RAINNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now.
People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.
|
On October 14 2012 21:19 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:18 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:15 Wildmoon wrote:On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. The game is evolving and it won't look the same next year. ZvZ used to be considered coin flip too but right now it's pretty skill based. I would say PvP is the hardest MU to figure out. This time next year, probably no progamers will play WOL. We will never know. oh I forgot about HotS. lol
It's nothing big, just that whole expansion thing that will completely change how the game is played ;o
|
On October 14 2012 21:17 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. BW =/= SC2. Even By.Sun admits PvP is coin-flippy and a plethora of other Korean pros. By.Sun is no doubt currently the best PvP'er but the match-up is still coin-flippy.
he just didn't want that Oz curse
|
On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.
interesting point, I see it applying to PvP way more than other matchups due to the supposed strength of mindgames and build order wins
|
holy fuck rain only dropping 1 game ^^; gj
|
On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.
I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years.
There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings, that's called trick play.
|
On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's.
Maybe it's just wishful thinking from someone like me who always desires consistency, but I have a gut feeling that the Bison will surpass the peaks of MC, Oz, Squirtle and Creator, in both PvP and in general really. SKT T1 coaching and practice aiding a very obvious talent... yeah.
Looking at his PvZ and PvP ability that he has demonstrated recently, I would honestly call him the favourite in both OSL and WCS Grand Finals.
|
On October 14 2012 21:25 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's. I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years.There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings.
Overall,MC has been consistent for a fucking long time since 2010.
He is the second highest earner after MVP.
You never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years.
That is your opinion but the fact is MC has proved himself as one of the most consistent Protoss from 2010 till now.
Then what about Oz who was a PvP specialist and Squirtle who previously had a 75% winrate vs toss?
|
Really 7 Protoss in top 10.....
|
On October 14 2012 21:28 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:25 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's. I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years. There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings. Overall,MC has been consistent for a fucking long time since 2010. He is the second highest earner after MVP. Then what about Oz who was a PvP specialist and Squirtle who previously had a 75% winrate vs toss?
Actually MC is approximately $28,000 ahead of Mvp in terms of winnings according to sc2earnings.com
MC though is very strange. On one hand you can argue that he's very consistent, looking at his earnings and placings in tournaments from 2010 up until now. (I mean he is in the OSL Semi-Finals right?) But on the other hand, you can argue that he is not consistent in that on one occassion he will look like the absolute best Protoss on the planet even against a top Code S player and on the next occassion look like a Code B scrub. We've seen both of these forms from him time and time and again.
|
On October 14 2012 21:32 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 21:28 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:25 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:21 red4ce wrote:On October 14 2012 21:12 ElephantBaby wrote:On October 14 2012 21:04 FakeDeath wrote:On October 14 2012 21:01 InDesconrowl wrote:On October 14 2012 20:55 red4ce wrote:
Rain's coinflipping skills are something to behold. Can you stop saying pvp is a coinflip matchup? It is still a coinflip match-up. It really depends on who get the better build order. Just that Sun is so good at flipping coins. Everyone thought ZvZ in BW is completely coin flip before jaedong comes along. Jaedong completely changed everybody's mind, he can beat you with many build order disadvantages. ZvZ in BW is even worse than PvP in SC2 in this regard. By.sun is doing the same thing in SC2 now. People said the same thing when MC was dominating PvP. And then when Oz was dominating PvP. And then when Squirtle was dominating PvP. The new blood always has an advantage because they can study everyone else's style while themselves being overlooked. Once Rain's tricks are copied by the other protoss his PvP record will fall in line with everyone else's. I didn't say the same thing when they were dominating. Things are different. Never believed MC is a deep enough progamer to be consistent for years. There's no trick in rain's play, he play standard, and solid, micro, macro, no allins. MC's play is never solid, just aggressive timings. Overall,MC has been consistent for a fucking long time since 2010. He is the second highest earner after MVP. Then what about Oz who was a PvP specialist and Squirtle who previously had a 75% winrate vs toss? Actually MC is approximately $28,000 ahead of Mvp in terms of winnings according to sc2earnings.comMC though is very strange. On one hand you can argue that he's very consistent, looking at his earnings and placings in tournaments from 2010 up until now. (I mean he is in the OSL Semi-Finals right?) But on the other hand, you can argue that he is not consistent in that on one occassion he will look like the absolute best Protoss on the planet even against a top Code S player and on the next occassion look like a Code B scrub. We've seen both of these forms from him time and time and again.
People don't win all the time.
MVP also had his slump.
Also,MC traveled a lot more than any other Koreans.
|
MC's " inconsistency " comes from his play in GSL, there was a long long period of time where MC was not expected to do well in GSL at all, even falling to Code B at one point near the end of 2011, he made it back in by taking second place at MLG Orlando which HuK won, HuK already being in Code S at the time he got the seed back in.
Then, MC got to the finals in GSL Season 3 this year and is in the semi finals of the OSL right now, so he is doing a lot better lately. Although he did lose in the ro32 in GSL in Season 4 so who really knows ;o
MC has made most of his money from beating up foreigners, and the huge payout for the GSL open seasons. Meanwhile Mvp has made a ridiculous amount of money from the GSL because of his insane consistency in GSL, 4 wins, 6 finals, 8 semi finals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
