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On August 08 2012 20:09 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:08 Roggay wrote:On August 08 2012 20:06 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 08 2012 20:05 Roggay wrote:On August 08 2012 20:03 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 19:58 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 08 2012 19:55 Assirra wrote:On August 08 2012 19:51 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 08 2012 19:49 Skelith wrote:
full KeSPA instead of foreigner ouch that elephant in the room article is getting burned It's sad actually. If that article never came out this elephant nonsense would never had started and more people would have rooted for the kespa players to get better faster. Agreed. That article is responsible for such a huge divide in both the BW and SC2 communities here at TL. I agree with this so much. That bloody article basically drew a line in the sand to separate SC2 and BW fans, and did it in a way that talked down to the SC2 scene so much that now, when we should be embracing the arrival of the new players, lots of people are just trying to rub the other half of the community's nose in the demonstration that SC2 really isn't just easy-mode freewins for top-level BW pros.  Allowing that post with the TL imprimature was really disgraceful, the atmosphere it's led to in these LR threads is just incredibly obnoxious. --- To the current game: LOL at Hero v Hero. A true mirror matchup. It would have happened that way anyway. People would have had preferences anyway, and they would have clashed. But the condescending tone of the thread just turned what could have been a friendly difference in preference to a rivalry that gets hostile at times. It was already very hostile, if you ever read the threads in the BW section, or the comments of new members on BW dying. It was unavoidable. You don't add fuel to the fire, and then SPOTLIGHT the damn thing on the front page.
Yea I didnt like the way it was done either. I'm just saying that the situation was unavoidable in the end.
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On August 08 2012 20:09 bittman wrote:
Ehhhhh, people keep saying HotS will change everything, but we're not talking BW to WoL here. Just like a big freaking patch to WoL.
The amount it will reset is minimal.
wat? how BW is diffrerent from HotS in size?
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Can anyone provide a link to that article?
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On August 08 2012 20:09 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:08 Roggay wrote:On August 08 2012 20:06 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 08 2012 20:05 Roggay wrote:On August 08 2012 20:03 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 19:58 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 08 2012 19:55 Assirra wrote:On August 08 2012 19:51 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 08 2012 19:49 Skelith wrote:
full KeSPA instead of foreigner ouch that elephant in the room article is getting burned It's sad actually. If that article never came out this elephant nonsense would never had started and more people would have rooted for the kespa players to get better faster. Agreed. That article is responsible for such a huge divide in both the BW and SC2 communities here at TL. I agree with this so much. That bloody article basically drew a line in the sand to separate SC2 and BW fans, and did it in a way that talked down to the SC2 scene so much that now, when we should be embracing the arrival of the new players, lots of people are just trying to rub the other half of the community's nose in the demonstration that SC2 really isn't just easy-mode freewins for top-level BW pros. Allowing that post with the TL imprimature was really disgraceful, the atmosphere it's led to in these LR threads is just incredibly obnoxious. --- To the current game: LOL at Hero v Hero. A true mirror matchup. It would have happened that way anyway. People would have had preferences anyway, and they would have clashed. But the condescending tone of the thread just turned what could have been a friendly difference in preference to a rivalry that gets hostile at times. It was already very hostile, if you ever read the threads in the BW section, or the comments of new members on BW dying. It was unavoidable. Yea but that's NOW, in 2012 when the game's been out for 2 years. I mean its obvious that the rivalry is hostile now, but you could trace back a lot of this hostility to early threads like that one.
No you don't understand me. I've seen a LOT of hate a lot prior to this thread.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On August 08 2012 20:07 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 08 2012 20:02 Probe1 wrote:On August 08 2012 19:59 Wildmoon wrote:On August 08 2012 19:58 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On August 08 2012 19:55 Assirra wrote:On August 08 2012 19:51 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 08 2012 19:49 Skelith wrote:
full KeSPA instead of foreigner ouch that elephant in the room article is getting burned It's sad actually. If that article never came out this elephant nonsense would never had started and more people would have rooted for the kespa players to get better faster. Agreed. That article is responsible for such a huge divide in both the BW and SC2 communities here at TL. again who the hell was the author of that article? Someone who knows a hell of a lot more about starcraft than most the people in this thread. The article was written at a time that all of the 'progamers' were the unsuccessful Brood War players. It's a very internet phenomenon to hold on to something indefinitely until it can be proven wrong. The article was relevant at the time and that time has long since passed. Yea but what's happening now does show just how audacious the article was in the first place. Of course the competition while the game was in its infancy was going to look inferior, everyone was still learning, the metagame was still developing. It was totally premature to just call all of it a farce and make a claim like he did about how dominant the SC1 pros would be just based off less than a year of actual competition. They have been. The players that have dedicated themselves to SC2 have made jokes out of their respected opponents (ForGG vs Sage comes to mind..) Flash is going to completely wreck things.
ForGG comes to mind? Isn't he the perfect example of false elephant hype?
Yes he's good, but thats after almost a year of playing, and when he hit the scene everyone jumped on the bullshit hype, including loads of TL staff, as if it proved the Elephant.
People were saying he was 2nd only to MVP from 3 Code A games, not even looking at his bad online results at the time (imo the best indicator of whether a player is gonna be good in Korea), and looking back we know that Sage and July had dropped off completely and that beating them wasn't as impressive as people though, and Polt was slumping and ill at the time.
I'm not saying Flash isn't gonna do well, but using ForGG vs Sage is such a strange example to give, Sage has done basically nothing since then, ForGG caught him on the way down.
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I am thinking that when the Elephant article was written the SC2 pros were not that good as they are now and the author did not predict their huge improvement. If Kespa guys in their current shape played the SC2 guys in their back then shape many matches would have probably go in Kespa direction and the article would have had more sense. Just an opinion though
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On August 08 2012 20:07 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:01 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 08 2012 19:58 Cyro wrote: Honestly, I feel the Collosus's design is salvageable. They could cut its movement speed in half, upped its damage and lowered its attack speed and they could make it a proper siege unit on par with the Siege Tank and Broodlord.
You'd have to babysit them, but properly micro'd they'd be even more devastating than they are now, but they wouldn't be suited to the deathball as much because they aren't nearly as mobile. That is a horrible idea, the entire concept of the protoss deathball in the first place is creating an army that is unbeatable, it doesnt matter how or where you engage as long as you reach that maxed army you can win 2 base vs 5. That was the original idea, and pretty much how it played out before zerg players knew how to deal with it and before major nerfs to the void ray etc, if you increase the DPS or even just the flat damage of the colossus at a cost to movement speed, you are making the deathball stronger and making the entire race weaker where they were most weak before. It would make every game stupid and one sided as either the unbeatable army rolled over everything with no significant losses, or its massive weaknesses in mobility etc got exploited so hard that the protoss player couldnt do anything aside from roll over and die. Yea I see how that makes it more all or nothing. /shrug. Oh well. We know Blizz is trying to break up the deathball in HOTS. Maybe the Viper and Tempest will do a better job of it than redesigning units like the Collosus, but it doesn't hurt to think about it. Id have more hopes for stuff like increasing templar movement speed and decreasing the massive dead time before you get a really powerful army with templar tech compared to robo among other things IIRC colossi, non-charge zealots, sentries, immortals, bio, most standard units are around 20% faster than templar, and it is very uncommon to rely on templar over colossi for AOE in any matchup because the colossus is simply the safer, earlier, and more consistent option, all at the same time
I don't see how increasing Templar speed makes the deathball any less powerful.
If anything it just makes going for both Templar and Collosus tech together more forgiving because it's easier to not lose track of your High Templar while maneuvering the remainder of your army.
I understand trying to create more incentive to use HTs over collosus, but improving them at all has the added effect of making them even better when mixed with Collosus.
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Philippines4950 Posts
On August 08 2012 20:09 bittman wrote:
Ehhhhh, people keep saying HotS will change everything, but we're not talking BW to WoL here. Just like a big freaking patch to WoL.
The amount it will reset is minimal.
When BW added lurkers, DTs and medics to vanilla SC1, did it really "not change" anything? Of course it changed a lot. Patches don't add new units. When there are new units, matchups will have to be reconsidered. It's just the way things go.
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PvP past 10 minutes. Just got in. Is this real?
I know Effort lost but how were the games?
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i think that elephant post should be permanently deleted rather than closed
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Philippines4950 Posts
On August 08 2012 20:13 silent_owl wrote:
PvP past 10 minutes. Just got in. Is this real?
I know Effort lost but how were the games?
Hero steamrolled Effort. Wasn't even close. :p
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cmon hero you can do this
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On August 08 2012 20:13 silent_owl wrote:
PvP past 10 minutes. Just got in. Is this real?
I know Effort lost but how were the games?
complete annihilation
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PvP's so boring to watch. I'm ready for the next match already.
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On August 08 2012 20:13 silent_owl wrote:
PvP past 10 minutes. Just got in. Is this real?
I know Effort lost but how were the games?
He got completely rolled.
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On August 08 2012 20:13 silent_owl wrote:
PvP past 10 minutes. Just got in. Is this real?
I know Effort lost but how were the games?
Hero advanced into the next round without effort.
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EPT
