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On July 16 2012 11:05 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 10:55 oniman999 wrote:On July 16 2012 10:49 Pur3_MaYheM wrote:On July 16 2012 10:45 oniman999 wrote:On July 16 2012 10:39 rhs408 wrote:On July 16 2012 10:32 Antithesis wrote:On July 16 2012 10:29 Zeon0 wrote:
why are they dacing? i dont mind, but i just dont understand it? and then everyone is hugging everyone, never saw something like that in any other sport before^^ This is cracking me up because it's exactly how I felt. I enjoyed watching the ceremony, but it was kinda odd. I can't really believe they planned it like "Well, and when the final match is over, EVERYBODY ENTERS THE STAGE AND DANCES". I don't say it was bad, though. I have sort of mixed feelings on this "closing ceremony"... first of all, this was definitely an American type of victory celebration - this is what you see in baseball when the world series or even when playoff games are won, the team celebrates after the game in the locker room by spraying champagne on each other, some players may even start dancing around with each other, etc. All perfectly normal in that scenario. But here, it was just one guy who won, and basically the casters all come out, spray champagne on the winner, and then start dancing with him? Imagine if say, this happened when a major Tennis match is won? Do the Tennis TV annoucers come down, spray champagne on the champion, and then start dancing with him? I think it was all a good idea, we all got a good laugh out of it, but was a bit too "raw". Any feeling of "professional production" that was left went out the window. The winner certainly enjoyed the celebration though, I guess that's an important part of it all (even Alicia would have had a good time I think!), but I think this was more than a bit over the top. I have only ever seen one professional tennis match in my life, and when that match was the won, the winner threw his racket in the air, screamed, and ripped off his shirt (The heat had something to do with this I imagine). He did this on the court, as soon as the match was over, eventually falling to the ground and staying there for a while, but only after he threw his shirt into the crowd. I would much rather have a dance party to celebrate a tournament where fans can get involved and everyone can have some fun than a celebration like I saw in tennis. You are talking aobut djokovic after wining a big match, yeah thats pure emotion right there. As for "professional production" Most of thepeople participating in this league are kids in their 20s, theres no need for a ceremony with red carpets and long speeches, its a videogame ment to be fun, the tournament is meant to bring entertainment, a dance party with the winner seems right for the kind of event the NASL is Yeah, I couldn't remember if the winner was Djokovic or Nadal. I should probably clarify that I saw nothing wrong with his celebration, it was like you said "pure emotion". I just didn't like the point that tennis is some purely professional 1v1 competition where stuff like that never happens. I like when people show emotion and have fun after a big win, which is why I liked this NASL finals celebration. ... Are you serious? Tennis is one of the most pussified, unprofessional, and fake win celebrations I've ever seen. Grown men on their knees sobbing after match wins... seriously? I don't mind emotional wins but not after every single match like it's the end of your life. Save it for a finals or something, like Kobe winning Game 7 over Boston a few years back. If Roddick finally beat Federer in a Wimbledon Finals or when Nadal finally trumped Djokovic, okay, that's obviously something emotional. But if you're a top tier profesisonal, you should be expecting to win as part of your mental preparation. Did you see Kobe act like a 4 year old with a scabbed knee after every win? No. You saw a man who controlled himself until he won something of import, not after every bloody day of good work. BoxeR after his loss to oov was an iconic SC moment for example, and thus obviously full of real emotion. That's something worth sharing and remembering for many reasons. But if BoxeR were to randomly cry everytime he wins a match, i would say that's very unprofessional. So no, Tennis is an abysmal example in general for what a professional production and celebration should look like.
Sorry tennis lovers, I wasn't trying to make a huge deal about tennis (actually was just trying to think of a sport that is mostly 1v1), never said it lacked emotional endings or anything like that... I gave a specific example of what would seem strange in a tennis match though, a 1v1 sport (for the most part). I'm not really focusing on the reaction of the player/winner, I'm focusing on the production - following a championship victory, would you ever see the TV announcers walk down to the court, spray champagne on the winner and then start dancing with him for a few minutes?
That would be hilarious if that happened in GSL though... Tastosis walk to the stage, spray champagne on winner and then start dancing with him WOOT
But why won't we ever see that on GSL...hmm...
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i can't help but think ret vs stephano would have been a lot more exciting :/
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Now that I'm arguing against you, but considering this discussion is about GSL, how many of those Terrans he beat are in Code S?
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On July 16 2012 10:59 Zzoram wrote:
Are the WCS VODs going to be free since they are Blizzard's tournament and not part of NASL?
All NASL VODs are free, why would these be any different? It will probably just take a few days for them to be edited and uploaded as they recover from the finals.
http://www.youtube.com/user/NAStarLeague/videos
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On July 16 2012 11:16 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:07 InMotion wrote:On July 16 2012 11:05 Alryk wrote:On July 16 2012 11:01 InMotion wrote:On July 16 2012 10:57 revel8 wrote:
Stephano has beaten 16 different Koreans in the past 9 weeks or so since he decided to extend his career by an extra year. That includes Alicia and MC both twice. Plus Nerchio, Ret, Socke, Huk, BeastyQT. He has been defeated by Vodka 6 though! He just got lucky by choosing zerg as his race. This isn't even a balance whine but honestly Z is very strong right now and its just easier to play than protoss or terran. He just wouldn't be winning with Terran especially. T and P seem to be a race that is very weak late game vs Z and are forced to do all ins or timing pushes to stop the zerg. This sounds like balance whine. Ret got stomped by MC in long, late macro games. It's not the race, it's the player. When did I say Ret = Stephano? Don't bother posting to me if your logic is terrible. You're saying Stephano is lucky because he chose an easy race (zerg) to play. I'm saying the race does not make him successful. Ret got stomped by MC, even though he played zerg. I guess if you're saying "stephano would be worse as a terran" I could say "MVP would be worse as a zerg" what's your point then? I completely disagree about T and P being weak late game and forced to allin to beat zerg. You see protoss players doing early expands and things like that with no pressure and it working all the time against other zerg players. By saying "stephano would be worse as Terran" you sound like you're saying zerg is easier to play. Hence balance whine. I never said that you said Ret = Stephano, I'm pointing out that the race itself isn't inherently easier to play than any of the others. What were you telling people in mid 2011 when Terran was the only race dominating the GSL? "Other players just aren't as good"? O.o I mean, I guess yeah, Stephano would do worse as terran. I say MVP would do worse as Zerg. MC would do worse as terran. MKP would do worse as protoss. DRG would do worse as random. What's the point? Zerg isn't inherently easier to play automatically making stephano better at the game because he plays it.
Except, you realize that there HAS to be "easier" races to play, when compared to the others in the same game?
Blizzard did not make a magical game in which every race requires the EXACT same level of skill, speed, decision-making, micro, and accuracy.
Sorry, they just didn't. My opinion is that zerg is the easiest to play, even if it's by a small margin, it makes a huge difference at this level of play.
And you're going on about korean pros being worse as other races? You know MVP and MC both have amazing zerg? Confirmed by code A/S practice partners?
Also, did you know that both DRG and Stephano have said that zerg doesn't need much practice to maintain skill?
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On July 16 2012 11:22 BathTubNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 10:59 Zzoram wrote:
Are the WCS VODs going to be free since they are Blizzard's tournament and not part of NASL? All NASL VODs are free, why would these be any different? It will probably just take a few days for them to be edited and uploaded as they recover from the finals. http://www.youtube.com/user/NAStarLeague/videos
You must mean recover from the massive amounts of alcohol they'll all consume tonight
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On July 16 2012 10:48 darkest44 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 10:17 Pur3_MaYheM wrote:
Laurenand the other girl definitely want to abng stephano tonight Might actually be true... she seems to really like stephano, her twitter https://twitter.com/IamLaurenElise"haha! Im just his biggest fan! " etc etc like 10 tweets about him geez hes a rockstar
Another tweet from her:
@MillStephano My french croissant... Please win... You are my favorite!
Well well, with her being married too, what's happening tonight I wonder :p
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reading this thread is like being back in primary-school arguing whos brother is the oldest and strongest.
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On July 16 2012 11:19 Lstrike wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 10:56 epicdemic wrote:On July 16 2012 10:39 mordk wrote:On July 16 2012 10:34 illsick wrote:On July 16 2012 10:30 SCST wrote:
I don't think GSL really suites Stephano's style . . . he doesn't catch me as the kind of guy who studies his opponents, or wants to wait around for days and weeks to play each match. He just wants to roll through to the end and cash in. Can't say I blame him, and I'm definitely a big fan because of it. He plays his style and doesn't worry too much on other people's style. He's been analyzed and studied a lot but yet he still is a dominant player. I think he can do well, just that there's so many people at his skill level in GSL. He's definitely one of the best players in the world. He's a dominant player who only just got his first big tournament. I think he's an awesome player, but don't think he'll magically get to korea and win the GSL. The competition there is far and above anything Stephano has won so far. Lol man, what's with the fucking haters. Stephano has been finishing top 4 in so many major recent tournaments he participated in. MLG, Red Bull, IPL, NASL, he's been owning it up everywhere. His skill level is higher than both Naniwa and SaSe, who both made it into code S recently. If Stephano would participate in Code S it would of course not be a guaranteed win, but he would have a better shot than the average Code S player most certainly. He has already been to Korea once and the only reason he didn't do Code S was because he didn't want to. He only has to accept GOM's seed. And I'm not saying this because I like Stephano. MKP has said in an interview that Stephano is Code S level, and I believe some other Code S players as well. Furthermore a lot of Broodwar Players (Jaedong et. al) are impressed with him. Sure Stephano is not perfect, but he's one of the best players in the world and if you want to post comments like that you're in the wrong place at the wrong time bro. GTFO. Sase? sure.. Naniwa? I dont think so... You are seriously underestimating Naniwa's skill level.. Stephano is surely Code S level, no doubt about that.. He may even go to Ro8-Ro4 depending on his luck.. But comparing him to Naniwa is just not right.
Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill.
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On July 16 2012 11:24 Snusmumriken wrote:
reading this thread is like being back in primary-school arguing whos brother is the oldest and strongest.
No! These are grown men arguing on how good Stephano is because it really matters!
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On July 16 2012 11:22 ShAdZ_ZX wrote:Now that I'm arguing against you, but considering this discussion is about GSL, how many of those Terrans he beat are in Code S?
I don't think Code S means that much, some better players are in Code A and its changing every season.
But If you only take Code S:
Won: Keen, Ganzi x2, Ryung
Lost: Marineking
Still not really questionable imo.
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On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:19 Lstrike wrote:On July 16 2012 10:56 epicdemic wrote:On July 16 2012 10:39 mordk wrote:On July 16 2012 10:34 illsick wrote:On July 16 2012 10:30 SCST wrote:
I don't think GSL really suites Stephano's style . . . he doesn't catch me as the kind of guy who studies his opponents, or wants to wait around for days and weeks to play each match. He just wants to roll through to the end and cash in. Can't say I blame him, and I'm definitely a big fan because of it. He plays his style and doesn't worry too much on other people's style. He's been analyzed and studied a lot but yet he still is a dominant player. I think he can do well, just that there's so many people at his skill level in GSL. He's definitely one of the best players in the world. He's a dominant player who only just got his first big tournament. I think he's an awesome player, but don't think he'll magically get to korea and win the GSL. The competition there is far and above anything Stephano has won so far. Lol man, what's with the fucking haters. Stephano has been finishing top 4 in so many major recent tournaments he participated in. MLG, Red Bull, IPL, NASL, he's been owning it up everywhere. His skill level is higher than both Naniwa and SaSe, who both made it into code S recently. If Stephano would participate in Code S it would of course not be a guaranteed win, but he would have a better shot than the average Code S player most certainly. He has already been to Korea once and the only reason he didn't do Code S was because he didn't want to. He only has to accept GOM's seed. And I'm not saying this because I like Stephano. MKP has said in an interview that Stephano is Code S level, and I believe some other Code S players as well. Furthermore a lot of Broodwar Players (Jaedong et. al) are impressed with him. Sure Stephano is not perfect, but he's one of the best players in the world and if you want to post comments like that you're in the wrong place at the wrong time bro. GTFO. Sase? sure.. Naniwa? I dont think so... You are seriously underestimating Naniwa's skill level.. Stephano is surely Code S level, no doubt about that.. He may even go to Ro8-Ro4 depending on his luck.. But comparing him to Naniwa is just not right. Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill.
I have the same opinion.. But I said that because we cannot compare them because they are at totally different levels..
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Northern Ireland27451 Posts
On July 16 2012 11:27 FeUerFlieGe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:24 Snusmumriken wrote:
reading this thread is like being back in primary-school arguing whos brother is the oldest and strongest. No! These are grown men arguing on how good Stephano is because it really matters!
In an LR thread about him no less! Plus this is much preferable to Stephano fanboys and anti-fanboys (I now refuse to use that idiotic term 'hater'  ) stinking up 90% of other unrelated threads discussing him
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On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:
Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill.
I don't think we can judge this until we get them to play each other.
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On July 16 2012 11:23 InMotion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:16 Alryk wrote:On July 16 2012 11:07 InMotion wrote:On July 16 2012 11:05 Alryk wrote:On July 16 2012 11:01 InMotion wrote:On July 16 2012 10:57 revel8 wrote:
Stephano has beaten 16 different Koreans in the past 9 weeks or so since he decided to extend his career by an extra year. That includes Alicia and MC both twice. Plus Nerchio, Ret, Socke, Huk, BeastyQT. He has been defeated by Vodka 6 though! He just got lucky by choosing zerg as his race. This isn't even a balance whine but honestly Z is very strong right now and its just easier to play than protoss or terran. He just wouldn't be winning with Terran especially. T and P seem to be a race that is very weak late game vs Z and are forced to do all ins or timing pushes to stop the zerg. This sounds like balance whine. Ret got stomped by MC in long, late macro games. It's not the race, it's the player. When did I say Ret = Stephano? Don't bother posting to me if your logic is terrible. You're saying Stephano is lucky because he chose an easy race (zerg) to play. I'm saying the race does not make him successful. Ret got stomped by MC, even though he played zerg. I guess if you're saying "stephano would be worse as a terran" I could say "MVP would be worse as a zerg" what's your point then? I completely disagree about T and P being weak late game and forced to allin to beat zerg. You see protoss players doing early expands and things like that with no pressure and it working all the time against other zerg players. By saying "stephano would be worse as Terran" you sound like you're saying zerg is easier to play. Hence balance whine. I never said that you said Ret = Stephano, I'm pointing out that the race itself isn't inherently easier to play than any of the others. What were you telling people in mid 2011 when Terran was the only race dominating the GSL? "Other players just aren't as good"? O.o I mean, I guess yeah, Stephano would do worse as terran. I say MVP would do worse as Zerg. MC would do worse as terran. MKP would do worse as protoss. DRG would do worse as random. What's the point? Zerg isn't inherently easier to play automatically making stephano better at the game because he plays it. Except, you realize that there HAS to be "easier" races to play, when compared to the others in the same game? Blizzard did not make a magical game in which every race requires the EXACT same level of skill, speed, decision-making, micro, and accuracy. Sorry, they just didn't. My opinion is that zerg is the easiest to play, even if it's by a small margin, it makes a huge difference at this level of play. And you're going on about korean pros being worse as other races? You know MVP and MC both have amazing zerg? Confirmed by code A/S practice partners? Also, did you know that both DRG and Stephano have said that zerg doesn't need much practice to maintain skill?
Ok, you're right. Each race isn't EXACTLY the same in difficulty. If you could quantify it anyways.
My opinion is that zerg is not the easiest to play. I play protoss. Each race has a different skillset that you need to master. Zerg is so mechanically difficult that players with excellent mechanics like Stephano and DRG are going to find it easy to maintain their skill because they're practically born with an affinity for it.
Not that I don't believe you, but can you source all of that? I think I do remember reading something about MVP playing zerg as his off race, but I also think that MVP would still not perform as well as he does if he switched to zerg. Otherwise, why wouldn't he? Early on in his career he wanted to earn as much money as possible to help his family, so if he can earn more by playing zerg, he should.
The way I see it, if any of the races was noticeably, quantifiably easier to play in every way than the others, all of the successful players would play that race (funny that was terran for a while, you never answered my question about GSL terran dominance  ). That doesn't happen because different players excel at different parts of the game.
I'm pretty sure that in MC's days of dominance, FF was insanely overpowered and protoss was easy to play. Then MVP came, and zerg required a ton of skill. Now, terran and protoss are clearly underpowered because Stephano won NASL, the stars are lined up with the sun, and let's not forget MVP winning the last GSL. That one was very important for zerg being an easier race to play.
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On July 16 2012 11:30 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:
Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill. I don't think we can judge this until we get them to play each other.
IMO not.
That would only be one matchup. PvZ is probably Naniwas weakest and Stephanos strongest.
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On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:19 Lstrike wrote:On July 16 2012 10:56 epicdemic wrote:On July 16 2012 10:39 mordk wrote:On July 16 2012 10:34 illsick wrote:On July 16 2012 10:30 SCST wrote:
I don't think GSL really suites Stephano's style . . . he doesn't catch me as the kind of guy who studies his opponents, or wants to wait around for days and weeks to play each match. He just wants to roll through to the end and cash in. Can't say I blame him, and I'm definitely a big fan because of it. He plays his style and doesn't worry too much on other people's style. He's been analyzed and studied a lot but yet he still is a dominant player. I think he can do well, just that there's so many people at his skill level in GSL. He's definitely one of the best players in the world. He's a dominant player who only just got his first big tournament. I think he's an awesome player, but don't think he'll magically get to korea and win the GSL. The competition there is far and above anything Stephano has won so far. Lol man, what's with the fucking haters. Stephano has been finishing top 4 in so many major recent tournaments he participated in. MLG, Red Bull, IPL, NASL, he's been owning it up everywhere. His skill level is higher than both Naniwa and SaSe, who both made it into code S recently. If Stephano would participate in Code S it would of course not be a guaranteed win, but he would have a better shot than the average Code S player most certainly. He has already been to Korea once and the only reason he didn't do Code S was because he didn't want to. He only has to accept GOM's seed. And I'm not saying this because I like Stephano. MKP has said in an interview that Stephano is Code S level, and I believe some other Code S players as well. Furthermore a lot of Broodwar Players (Jaedong et. al) are impressed with him. Sure Stephano is not perfect, but he's one of the best players in the world and if you want to post comments like that you're in the wrong place at the wrong time bro. GTFO. Sase? sure.. Naniwa? I dont think so... You are seriously underestimating Naniwa's skill level.. Stephano is surely Code S level, no doubt about that.. He may even go to Ro8-Ro4 depending on his luck.. But comparing him to Naniwa is just not right. Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill.
Skill isn't quantifiable, unfortunately.
However, based on how they both have performed in recent history versus certain players, I think they'd have to be close. Still, that doesn't mean that Naniwa's GSL success would directly translate to Stephano. Placing high in GSL requires a lot more preparation and luck than most other tournaments. Stephano could quite easily get dropped in Ro32 if he happened to catch an unlucky group.
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On July 16 2012 11:30 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:
Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill. I don't think we can judge this until we get them to play each other.
Their 'skill' is referring to their overall ability as pro players in ALL matchups. A 1v1 would only test their ZvP.
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On July 16 2012 11:30 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:
Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill. I don't think we can judge this until we get them to play each other.
That's why it's just an opinion You can still evaluate players even though they haven't played against each other.
Think MVP and DRG, who have only played 4 times in Korea (one GSTL foreeeeeeeeever ago, then Arena of Legends, then blizzard cup). But you can still compare the two. The result of that comparison (of any two players) is up for debate though.
Edit: The fact about it only testing ZvP is a good point too.
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On July 16 2012 11:33 00Visor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 11:30 Zzoram wrote:On July 16 2012 11:26 Alryk wrote:
Personally, I think Naniwa and Stephano are equal in skill. I don't think we can judge this until we get them to play each other. IMO not. That would only be one matchup. PvZ is probably Naniwas weakest and Stephanos strongest.
So you want them to play all the matchups? O.o
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EPT
