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no balance whine, tangential theorycraft, etc, bans/warns after page 91 |
On June 27 2012 22:44 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 16:40 TheDougler wrote:
Wow only 3 people including myself picking Taeja/Seed to advance so far. Prepare to be shocked. Naaaaiiiled it! Congrats to both! Taeja was just looking SO STRONG after his All Kill, and Seed has been playing really well too. Still, nailbiter at the end for sure. Thought Taeja was done for after he lost all those units early on and was behind on upgrades.
Good play from Taeja today (but kind of shaky, losing 0-2 to Seed, going 2-1 against both MVP and viOLet). I just don't see him beating the winner of Group B. Symbol is on a roll and will probably crush through anyone he meets until at least the semis. Squirtle 3-0'd Taeja last season, and MKP manhandled him in the IPL fight club. Don't see Taeja getting any further than the ro8, unfortunately.
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On June 27 2012 22:45 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:38 ELA wrote:OK, so in the last 48 hours, this has happened for Liquid: - HerO qualifies for MLG through Korean Online MLG Qualifier
- Taeja qualifies for MLG through Korean Online MLG Qualifier
- HerO 2-0's his Code A ro16 match
- Ret wins TSL4 Qualifier
- Liquid beats Prime in IPLTAC3 5-3
- Taeja advances to Code S ro8, beating MVP and Violet in the process
- In 48 hours! What in the fuck Year of Liquid? It's not bad, but that's more like the 48 hours of Liquid. :p GSTL... can't shake those demons myself quite yet 
This is really good news for Liquid. They started off by being a completely fail team and getting owned in GSTL, but now after buying all the korean talent, they're actually starting to show some seriously good results. Nice!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 27 2012 22:47 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:On June 27 2012 22:43 dragonborn wrote:On June 27 2012 22:35 SolidMustard wrote:On June 27 2012 22:34 DizzySheep wrote:On June 27 2012 22:32 Za7oX wrote:
Not sure if Tajea would stand a chance vs Symbol or DRG's zvt I doubt any terran can stand up to them in a boX with the current trend. MKP beat Symbol in a Bo3 like three days ago in the IPL qualifier  This doesnt mean anything. Symbol is like MVP, give him a time for preparation and he will kill you. We'll see that tomorrow but you seem to forget that Symbol already prepared twice to play MKP (Iron Squid an GSL, and he won both so that goes in your direction) so he was prepared for this match and lost Showing your strats in IPL qualifiers isnt a good idea. Also MKP is king of qualifiers/tournaments like that Symbol is 5-0 against MKP in preparation-style tournaments.
True that, but I'm not counting the king of marines out. I hope they will face in winners' match, I loved their series in Ro32
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On June 27 2012 22:50 setmeal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:45 Bagration wrote:On June 27 2012 22:38 ELA wrote:OK, so in the last 48 hours, this has happened for Liquid: - HerO qualifies for MLG through Korean Online MLG Qualifier
- Taeja qualifies for MLG through Korean Online MLG Qualifier
- HerO 2-0's his Code A ro16 match
- Ret wins TSL4 Qualifier
- Liquid beats Prime in IPLTAC3 5-3
- Taeja advances to Code S ro8, beating MVP and Violet in the process
- In 48 hours! What in the fuck Year of Liquid? It's not bad, but that's more like the 48 hours of Liquid. :p GSTL... can't shake those demons myself quite yet This is really good news for Liquid. They started off by being a completely fail team and getting owned in GSTL, but now after buying all the korean talent, they're actually starting to show some seriously good results. Nice!!!
Umm, they acquired the Koreans before the GSTL, and they definitely were not a "fail team" before.
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On June 27 2012 22:50 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:47 dragonborn wrote:On June 27 2012 22:45 SolidMustard wrote:On June 27 2012 22:43 dragonborn wrote:On June 27 2012 22:35 SolidMustard wrote:On June 27 2012 22:34 DizzySheep wrote:On June 27 2012 22:32 Za7oX wrote:
Not sure if Tajea would stand a chance vs Symbol or DRG's zvt I doubt any terran can stand up to them in a boX with the current trend. MKP beat Symbol in a Bo3 like three days ago in the IPL qualifier This doesnt mean anything. Symbol is like MVP, give him a time for preparation and he will kill you. We'll see that tomorrow but you seem to forget that Symbol already prepared twice to play MKP (Iron Squid an GSL, and he won both so that goes in your direction) so he was prepared for this match and lost Showing your strats in IPL qualifiers isnt a good idea. Also MKP is king of qualifiers/tournaments like that Symbol is 5-0 against MKP in preparation-style tournaments. True that, but I'm not counting the king of marines out. I hope they will face in winners' match, I loved their series in Ro32
Those marines man, still the greatest Terran assets. So their King should be our hope.
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I see the results of TvZ games still get spoilered by the recommended games polls. Only that its now the Terran wins that get recommended while it was the Zerg wins in the past.
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Missed most of the games. Was Taeja as awesome as he usually is? That kid i brilliant, can very well win the whole thing. I was so frickin impressed with the way he outplayed ace, and now he beats Mvp in a tvt and a zerg in tvz. Liquid fighting!
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On June 27 2012 22:41 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:29 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:24 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:18 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:17 Tsubbi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:13 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:10 Tsubbi wrote:
the terran whine is just atrocious, you guys realize youre still the most represented race in code s?
violet tried to fake speed with pulling out of gas when taeja scouted, then did the drg roach pressure, he didnt have enough minerals somehow though so his roaches arrived 10-20 seconds too late to do enough damage imo I have no idea what the pre patch terran representation has to do with the post patch whine. There are a lot of reasons to not whine, but terran representation isn't one. up and downs and code a were played post patch, 7 terrans advanced to ro16. other races started whining when there were 1 ro16 and none in ro8, terran is still the most successful race and every lr thread is a clusterfuck of terran whine nowadays http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Up_and_Down What is your point? Was Up and Down before queen range? I don't know, you cited up and down played post patch, so I guess you meant they were a success for terrans ? Were they a success for terrans ? The high terran representation in GSL has nothing to do with current balance and everything to do with terran having 25 players in code S just some months ago. I takes some time for the code S racial representation to represent the actual state of the game. There are a lot of good arguments to say the game is balanced. GSL race representation is not one, it's so obvious that I don't even know why I need to argue it. I never stated anything, it was another guy. but that is besides the point. First of all, fact is that representation is never a good tool to discuss balance. But the guy you replied to with a wiki link only said that U&D was played after patch, in which more T ended up gaining Code S than Z btw. Then he stated that there is still 7/16 T in Ro16 today. Then he stated that zerg never went going so completely ballistics even if there was none of us in the R08 and only 1 in Ro16. Which was 1 month ago. ... I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. If you use representation as balance tool, then the Queen + overlord change is actually balanced. But like I said in the start, representation shouldn't be used to balance the game. In 2 years of SCII, zerg only got buffs, and still we are underrepresented in the GSL. 1 month Terrans are losing to endgame zerg armies and they are actually crying murder and blood... I just found your wiki link kinda lacking tact and logic.
I just have no idea why he cited the up and down being "after the patch". So 4 terrans of 14 advanced, and "only" 3 zergs of 6. What is this supposed to mean that could possibly support his argument ? Posting a link was tactless, but without logic ?
Basically we agree, representation in GSL means nothing to balance, that was my point and it seems we agree on this.
Representation on one time tournaments can reflect current balance, but not in GSL. If the game got perfectly balanced only after terrans were 25 in code S, terran could still be in theory 25 in code S nowadays without meaning any imbalance, as balance means statut quo in code S race representation. If the game is balanced, no race will gain ground on the other. (once players who were only carried by their race are out tho, which is the case now I think we can agree on that too)
I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. This argument is the exact same as the race representation argument. Basically you mean that terran deserves what they got because they were OP before. Not an acceptable way of seeing balance imo.
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On June 27 2012 23:03 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 22:41 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:29 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:24 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:18 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:17 Tsubbi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:13 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:10 Tsubbi wrote:
the terran whine is just atrocious, you guys realize youre still the most represented race in code s?
violet tried to fake speed with pulling out of gas when taeja scouted, then did the drg roach pressure, he didnt have enough minerals somehow though so his roaches arrived 10-20 seconds too late to do enough damage imo I have no idea what the pre patch terran representation has to do with the post patch whine. There are a lot of reasons to not whine, but terran representation isn't one. up and downs and code a were played post patch, 7 terrans advanced to ro16. other races started whining when there were 1 ro16 and none in ro8, terran is still the most successful race and every lr thread is a clusterfuck of terran whine nowadays http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Up_and_Down What is your point? Was Up and Down before queen range? I don't know, you cited up and down played post patch, so I guess you meant they were a success for terrans ? Were they a success for terrans ? The high terran representation in GSL has nothing to do with current balance and everything to do with terran having 25 players in code S just some months ago. I takes some time for the code S racial representation to represent the actual state of the game. There are a lot of good arguments to say the game is balanced. GSL race representation is not one, it's so obvious that I don't even know why I need to argue it. I never stated anything, it was another guy. but that is besides the point. First of all, fact is that representation is never a good tool to discuss balance. But the guy you replied to with a wiki link only said that U&D was played after patch, in which more T ended up gaining Code S than Z btw. Then he stated that there is still 7/16 T in Ro16 today. Then he stated that zerg never went going so completely ballistics even if there was none of us in the R08 and only 1 in Ro16. Which was 1 month ago. ... I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. If you use representation as balance tool, then the Queen + overlord change is actually balanced. But like I said in the start, representation shouldn't be used to balance the game. In 2 years of SCII, zerg only got buffs, and still we are underrepresented in the GSL. 1 month Terrans are losing to endgame zerg armies and they are actually crying murder and blood... I just found your wiki link kinda lacking tact and logic. I just have no idea why he cited the up and down being "after the patch". So 4 terrans of 14 advanced, and "only" 3 zergs of 6. What is this supposed to mean that could possibly support his argument ? Posting a link was tactless, but without logic ? Basically we agree, representation in GSL means nothing to balance, that was my point and it seems we agree on this. Representation on one time tournaments can reflect current balance, but not in GSL. If the game got perfectly balanced only after terrans were 25 in code S, terran could still be in theory 25 in code S nowadays without meaning any imbalance, as balance means statut quo in code S race representation. If the game is balanced, no race will gain ground on the other. Show nested quote +I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. This argument is the exact same as the race representation argument. Basically you mean that terran deserves what they got because they were OP before. Not an acceptable way of seeing balance imo.
"if the game is balanced no race will gain ground on the other"
This is actually mathematically false. Let's say you have at some point one half terran players, and one quarter zerg one quarter protoss in Code S. In average, there should be 4 terrans 2 zergs and 2 protoss in the top 8 that will stay code S next season, but the newcomers would be 8 terrans, 8 protoss and 8 zergs (or maybe a bit terran favoured the first season because of more terrans in up and downs) and the representation would slowly go back to 33% players of each race
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GG taeja! Liquid has the best koreans!
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Just want to be a Liquid fan for a short bit! Gogo Teaja!
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On June 27 2012 23:08 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 23:03 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:41 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:29 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:24 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:18 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:17 Tsubbi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:13 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:10 Tsubbi wrote:
the terran whine is just atrocious, you guys realize youre still the most represented race in code s?
violet tried to fake speed with pulling out of gas when taeja scouted, then did the drg roach pressure, he didnt have enough minerals somehow though so his roaches arrived 10-20 seconds too late to do enough damage imo I have no idea what the pre patch terran representation has to do with the post patch whine. There are a lot of reasons to not whine, but terran representation isn't one. up and downs and code a were played post patch, 7 terrans advanced to ro16. other races started whining when there were 1 ro16 and none in ro8, terran is still the most successful race and every lr thread is a clusterfuck of terran whine nowadays http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Up_and_Down What is your point? Was Up and Down before queen range? I don't know, you cited up and down played post patch, so I guess you meant they were a success for terrans ? Were they a success for terrans ? The high terran representation in GSL has nothing to do with current balance and everything to do with terran having 25 players in code S just some months ago. I takes some time for the code S racial representation to represent the actual state of the game. There are a lot of good arguments to say the game is balanced. GSL race representation is not one, it's so obvious that I don't even know why I need to argue it. I never stated anything, it was another guy. but that is besides the point. First of all, fact is that representation is never a good tool to discuss balance. But the guy you replied to with a wiki link only said that U&D was played after patch, in which more T ended up gaining Code S than Z btw. Then he stated that there is still 7/16 T in Ro16 today. Then he stated that zerg never went going so completely ballistics even if there was none of us in the R08 and only 1 in Ro16. Which was 1 month ago. ... I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. If you use representation as balance tool, then the Queen + overlord change is actually balanced. But like I said in the start, representation shouldn't be used to balance the game. In 2 years of SCII, zerg only got buffs, and still we are underrepresented in the GSL. 1 month Terrans are losing to endgame zerg armies and they are actually crying murder and blood... I just found your wiki link kinda lacking tact and logic. I just have no idea why he cited the up and down being "after the patch". So 4 terrans of 14 advanced, and "only" 3 zergs of 6. What is this supposed to mean that could possibly support his argument ? Posting a link was tactless, but without logic ? Basically we agree, representation in GSL means nothing to balance, that was my point and it seems we agree on this. Representation on one time tournaments can reflect current balance, but not in GSL. If the game got perfectly balanced only after terrans were 25 in code S, terran could still be in theory 25 in code S nowadays without meaning any imbalance, as balance means statut quo in code S race representation. If the game is balanced, no race will gain ground on the other. I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. This argument is the exact same as the race representation argument. Basically you mean that terran deserves what they got because they were OP before. Not an acceptable way of seeing balance imo. "if the game is balanced no race will gain ground on the other" This is actually mathematically false. Let's say you have at some point one half terran players, and one quarter zerg one quarter protoss in Code S. In average, there should be 4 terrans 2 zergs and 2 protoss in the top 8 that will stay code S next season, but the newcomers would be 8 terrans, 8 protoss and 8 zergs (or maybe a bit terran favoured the first season because of more terrans in up and downs) and the representation would slowly go back to 33% players of each race
Almost: just because races are balanced doesn't mean everyone's skill level is. That's the reason there are still many representations of Terran at high level Korean play, because top pros chose Terran at the game's beginning.
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On June 27 2012 23:08 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 23:03 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:41 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:29 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:24 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:18 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:17 Tsubbi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:13 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:10 Tsubbi wrote:
the terran whine is just atrocious, you guys realize youre still the most represented race in code s?
violet tried to fake speed with pulling out of gas when taeja scouted, then did the drg roach pressure, he didnt have enough minerals somehow though so his roaches arrived 10-20 seconds too late to do enough damage imo I have no idea what the pre patch terran representation has to do with the post patch whine. There are a lot of reasons to not whine, but terran representation isn't one. up and downs and code a were played post patch, 7 terrans advanced to ro16. other races started whining when there were 1 ro16 and none in ro8, terran is still the most successful race and every lr thread is a clusterfuck of terran whine nowadays http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Up_and_Down What is your point? Was Up and Down before queen range? I don't know, you cited up and down played post patch, so I guess you meant they were a success for terrans ? Were they a success for terrans ? The high terran representation in GSL has nothing to do with current balance and everything to do with terran having 25 players in code S just some months ago. I takes some time for the code S racial representation to represent the actual state of the game. There are a lot of good arguments to say the game is balanced. GSL race representation is not one, it's so obvious that I don't even know why I need to argue it. I never stated anything, it was another guy. but that is besides the point. First of all, fact is that representation is never a good tool to discuss balance. But the guy you replied to with a wiki link only said that U&D was played after patch, in which more T ended up gaining Code S than Z btw. Then he stated that there is still 7/16 T in Ro16 today. Then he stated that zerg never went going so completely ballistics even if there was none of us in the R08 and only 1 in Ro16. Which was 1 month ago. ... I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. If you use representation as balance tool, then the Queen + overlord change is actually balanced. But like I said in the start, representation shouldn't be used to balance the game. In 2 years of SCII, zerg only got buffs, and still we are underrepresented in the GSL. 1 month Terrans are losing to endgame zerg armies and they are actually crying murder and blood... I just found your wiki link kinda lacking tact and logic. I just have no idea why he cited the up and down being "after the patch". So 4 terrans of 14 advanced, and "only" 3 zergs of 6. What is this supposed to mean that could possibly support his argument ? Posting a link was tactless, but without logic ? Basically we agree, representation in GSL means nothing to balance, that was my point and it seems we agree on this. Representation on one time tournaments can reflect current balance, but not in GSL. If the game got perfectly balanced only after terrans were 25 in code S, terran could still be in theory 25 in code S nowadays without meaning any imbalance, as balance means statut quo in code S race representation. If the game is balanced, no race will gain ground on the other. I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. This argument is the exact same as the race representation argument. Basically you mean that terran deserves what they got because they were OP before. Not an acceptable way of seeing balance imo. "if the game is balanced no race will gain ground on the other" This is actually mathematically false. Let's say you have at some point one half terran players, and one quarter zerg one quarter protoss in Code S. In average, there should be 4 terrans 2 zergs and 2 protoss in the top 8 that will stay code S next season, but the newcomers would be 8 terrans, 8 protoss and 8 zergs (or maybe a bit terran favoured the first season because of more terrans in up and downs) and the representation would slowly go back to 33% players of each race
True. So balance is no statut quo, but a very slow return to equilibrium. Exactly what was happening before the patch.
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Epic first post on this thread. Good prediction man.
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On June 27 2012 23:16 Fearless7 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 23:08 SolidMustard wrote:On June 27 2012 23:03 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:41 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:29 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:24 Koshi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:18 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:17 Tsubbi wrote:On June 27 2012 22:13 MrCon wrote:On June 27 2012 22:10 Tsubbi wrote:
the terran whine is just atrocious, you guys realize youre still the most represented race in code s?
violet tried to fake speed with pulling out of gas when taeja scouted, then did the drg roach pressure, he didnt have enough minerals somehow though so his roaches arrived 10-20 seconds too late to do enough damage imo I have no idea what the pre patch terran representation has to do with the post patch whine. There are a lot of reasons to not whine, but terran representation isn't one. up and downs and code a were played post patch, 7 terrans advanced to ro16. other races started whining when there were 1 ro16 and none in ro8, terran is still the most successful race and every lr thread is a clusterfuck of terran whine nowadays http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Up_and_Down What is your point? Was Up and Down before queen range? I don't know, you cited up and down played post patch, so I guess you meant they were a success for terrans ? Were they a success for terrans ? The high terran representation in GSL has nothing to do with current balance and everything to do with terran having 25 players in code S just some months ago. I takes some time for the code S racial representation to represent the actual state of the game. There are a lot of good arguments to say the game is balanced. GSL race representation is not one, it's so obvious that I don't even know why I need to argue it. I never stated anything, it was another guy. but that is besides the point. First of all, fact is that representation is never a good tool to discuss balance. But the guy you replied to with a wiki link only said that U&D was played after patch, in which more T ended up gaining Code S than Z btw. Then he stated that there is still 7/16 T in Ro16 today. Then he stated that zerg never went going so completely ballistics even if there was none of us in the R08 and only 1 in Ro16. Which was 1 month ago. ... I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. If you use representation as balance tool, then the Queen + overlord change is actually balanced. But like I said in the start, representation shouldn't be used to balance the game. In 2 years of SCII, zerg only got buffs, and still we are underrepresented in the GSL. 1 month Terrans are losing to endgame zerg armies and they are actually crying murder and blood... I just found your wiki link kinda lacking tact and logic. I just have no idea why he cited the up and down being "after the patch". So 4 terrans of 14 advanced, and "only" 3 zergs of 6. What is this supposed to mean that could possibly support his argument ? Posting a link was tactless, but without logic ? Basically we agree, representation in GSL means nothing to balance, that was my point and it seems we agree on this. Representation on one time tournaments can reflect current balance, but not in GSL. If the game got perfectly balanced only after terrans were 25 in code S, terran could still be in theory 25 in code S nowadays without meaning any imbalance, as balance means statut quo in code S race representation. If the game is balanced, no race will gain ground on the other. I don't get why the Ts are so annoyed. They got in twelve editions of the GSL 26 spots in the R04, while P had 13 and Z had 9. This argument is the exact same as the race representation argument. Basically you mean that terran deserves what they got because they were OP before. Not an acceptable way of seeing balance imo. "if the game is balanced no race will gain ground on the other" This is actually mathematically false. Let's say you have at some point one half terran players, and one quarter zerg one quarter protoss in Code S. In average, there should be 4 terrans 2 zergs and 2 protoss in the top 8 that will stay code S next season, but the newcomers would be 8 terrans, 8 protoss and 8 zergs (or maybe a bit terran favoured the first season because of more terrans in up and downs) and the representation would slowly go back to 33% players of each race Almost: just because races are balanced doesn't mean everyone's skill level is. That's the reason there are still many representations of Terran at high level Korean play, because top pros chose Terran at the game's beginning. So how do you know this is true? And not that Terran was just better then the other races?
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I want to show the awesome learn Korean to a friend, does anyone have it as a gif, or is it on youtube somewhere?
edit: I am of course referring to the archon one
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And that is how Liquid rolls!
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100% wrong in my predictions, but grats to taeja!
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EPT
