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On June 15 2012 13:09 ssg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 12:25 1yzarc1 wrote:
does anyone know whether 14-7 beats 13-6? because if so then demuslim is through anyways as he will be in the top 3 2nd places 14-7 is a better winning % than 13-6, yeah. So demuslim advances no matter what happens.
13-6 is 13/19, or 68.4%. Winning 13 out of 19 games played.
14-7 is 14/21, or 66.7%. Winning 14 out of 21 games played.
Therefore, 13-6 is a higher winning percentage than 14-7.
I'm not sure if NASL takes into account other factors or variables, but I think the comparison of those numbers alone should at least be made clear.
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Two points (as a spectator only) about the drama:
1. I am utterly convinced that Demuslim is telling the truth here. Why? Because he has a good track record. On the
other hand: (before BitterDam) NASL had the worst track record of any major SC2 tournament regarding screwups, bad PR and unprofessionalism. And I'm sure some of that crap is still lingering around (see 'Sound Guy 101') even to this day.
2. In my opinion Demuslim made a big (albeit human) mistake bringing this up in the match, rather than just on the forums. I believe that he would had brought sufficient attention to this issue with his post alone, and without indirectly disrespecting Dimaga, the casters and some of the fans. This is not the first time this has happened (see Thorzain), and bringing it up in this manner is a huge PR no-no. I'd recommend trying to contain the rage until said Pro can get to the forum and then exploding. It's healthier in the long run.
/preaching
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On June 15 2012 13:37 SCST wrote:
Two points (as a spectator only) about the drama:
1. I am utterly convinced that Demuslim is telling the truth here. Why? Because he has a good track record. On the other hand, (before BitterDam) NASL had the worst track record of any major SC2 tournament regarding screwups, bad PR and unprofessionalism. And I'm sure some of that crap is still lingering around (see 'Sound Guy 101') even to this day.
/preaching
Meh, that's a logical fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
Don't just assume that X is correct and Y is incorrect just because of past experiences. Take a look at the evidence for this particular case as well. I'm not going to take sides here, but approach it with an open mind and read the context. Maybe both parties are at fault, maybe one of them really fucked up, maybe the other did.
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On June 15 2012 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:37 SCST wrote:
Two points (as a spectator only) about the drama:
1. I am utterly convinced that Demuslim is telling the truth here. Why? Because he has a good track record. On the other hand, (before BitterDam) NASL had the worst track record of any major SC2 tournament regarding screwups, bad PR and unprofessionalism. And I'm sure some of that crap is still lingering around (see 'Sound Guy 101') even to this day.
/preaching Meh, that's a logical fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well Don't just assume that X is correct and Y is incorrect just because of past experiences. Take a look at the evidence for this particular case as well. I'm not going to take sides here, but approach it with an open mind and read the context. Maybe both parties are at fault, maybe one of them really fucked up, maybe the other did.
it's actually pretty relevant here when all we have to go on is two versions of the same story. NASL has been at fault a significant number of times in the past. i don't recall any instances of demuslim lying about conversations he's had. there is no 'evidence' to look at. things may or may not have been said.
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On June 15 2012 13:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:09 ssg wrote:On June 15 2012 12:25 1yzarc1 wrote:
does anyone know whether 14-7 beats 13-6? because if so then demuslim is through anyways as he will be in the top 3 2nd places 14-7 is a better winning % than 13-6, yeah. So demuslim advances no matter what happens. 13-6 is 13/19, or 68.4%. Winning 13 out of 19 games played. 14-7 is 14/21, or 66.7%. Winning 14 out of 21 games played. Therefore, 13-6 is a higher winning percentage than 14-7. I'm not sure if NASL takes into account other factors or variables, but I think the comparison of those numbers alone should at least be made clear.
Pretty sure NASL does it on points. you get 1 point for winning and -1 for losing.
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On June 15 2012 13:52 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 15 2012 13:09 ssg wrote:On June 15 2012 12:25 1yzarc1 wrote:
does anyone know whether 14-7 beats 13-6? because if so then demuslim is through anyways as he will be in the top 3 2nd places 14-7 is a better winning % than 13-6, yeah. So demuslim advances no matter what happens. 13-6 is 13/19, or 68.4%. Winning 13 out of 19 games played. 14-7 is 14/21, or 66.7%. Winning 14 out of 21 games played. Therefore, 13-6 is a higher winning percentage than 14-7. I'm not sure if NASL takes into account other factors or variables, but I think the comparison of those numbers alone should at least be made clear. Pretty sure NASL does it on points. you get 1 point for winning and -1 for losing.
Ah, so they would be tied at 7 then? 13-6=7 and 14-7=7, like that?
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On June 15 2012 13:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:37 SCST wrote:
Two points (as a spectator only) about the drama:
1. I am utterly convinced that Demuslim is telling the truth here. Why? Because he has a good track record. On the other hand, (before BitterDam) NASL had the worst track record of any major SC2 tournament regarding screwups, bad PR and unprofessionalism. And I'm sure some of that crap is still lingering around (see 'Sound Guy 101') even to this day.
/preaching Meh, that's a logical fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well Don't just assume that X is correct and Y is incorrect just because of past experiences. Take a look at the evidence for this particular case as well. I'm not going to take sides here, but approach it with an open mind and read the context. Maybe both parties are at fault, maybe one of them really fucked up, maybe the other did.
I like your balanced perspective, but I bring to your attention that my speech was never dogmatic in any way. Being 'utterly convinced' is not attempting to be factual, it's just my opinion stated very strongly. In other words, I'm as convinced as I could possibly be without knowing with 100% certainty that Demuslim is telling the truth.
Regarding the way I form my opinions, well . . . my experiences and observations go a long way in shaping my opinions of the world. Facts trump everything of course, but to base my judgment solely on facts (when facts are not available) would be to sap the life out of my humanity. In other words, I prefer not to live life as if I were hand-held calculator!
And I am a very open minded person. In this case, however, NASL has gone beyond merely losing some credability over the previous Seasons blunders - in fact, I think NASL is bankrupt in the credability department. So no, I don't need to have an open mind anymore. Both cases for this drama have been laid out quite clearly and I don't see much grey area to mull over. One person is lying or has severe short-term memory loss. And I'm convinced it's not Demuslim.
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Fair enough, pique and SCST. I agree that NASL has indeed lost credibility in the past. I just don't like to jump on the bandwagon of "It must be them because they've done it in the past", although I completely understand that it seems rather logical to assume it was them when there's nothing else to go on other than reputations. While other players have less than stellar track records, and NASL has done a lot to improve their organization over the past few seasons, DeMusliM does have a good reputation (as far as I know) and NASL has been far from perfect.
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On June 15 2012 14:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:52 jmbthirteen wrote:On June 15 2012 13:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 15 2012 13:09 ssg wrote:On June 15 2012 12:25 1yzarc1 wrote:
does anyone know whether 14-7 beats 13-6? because if so then demuslim is through anyways as he will be in the top 3 2nd places 14-7 is a better winning % than 13-6, yeah. So demuslim advances no matter what happens. 13-6 is 13/19, or 68.4%. Winning 13 out of 19 games played. 14-7 is 14/21, or 66.7%. Winning 14 out of 21 games played. Therefore, 13-6 is a higher winning percentage than 14-7. I'm not sure if NASL takes into account other factors or variables, but I think the comparison of those numbers alone should at least be made clear. Pretty sure NASL does it on points. you get 1 point for winning and -1 for losing. Ah, so they would be tied at 7 then? 13-6=7 and 14-7=7, like that?
I believe so.
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On June 15 2012 13:37 SCST wrote:
Two points (as a spectator only) about the drama:
1. I am utterly convinced that Demuslim is telling the truth here. Why? Because he has a good track record. On the
other hand: (before BitterDam) NASL had the worst track record of any major SC2 tournament regarding screwups, bad PR and unprofessionalism. And I'm sure some of that crap is still lingering around (see 'Sound Guy 101') even to this day.
2. In my opinion Demuslim made a big (albeit human) mistake bringing this up in the match, rather than just on the forums. I believe that he would had brought sufficient attention to this issue with his post alone, and without indirectly disrespecting Dimaga, the casters and some of the fans. This is not the first time this has happened (see Thorzain), and bringing it up in this manner is a huge PR no-no. I'd recommend trying to contain the rage until said Pro can get to the forum and then exploding. It's healthier in the long run.
/preaching
If you're going by track record... I've never in my life let a person postpone a match for two weeks. Why would I have started here? This is a he-says-she-says argument. But if you want to look at track records, you'd know that we at the NASL are very hesitant to postpone matches even 1-2 days, let alone 1-2 weeks, and that we only make exceptions for major events such as MLG, Blizzcon, and GSL Code S games (the only times we've ever specifically allowed matches to be played after a broadcast date). Based on this, one would conclude that I never would have told DeMusliM he could play after Gigabyte, it's 100% not something I would ever do.
Regardless, DeMusliM believes I did, and I'm saying I didn't... not much more to it than that.
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On June 15 2012 14:59 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:37 SCST wrote:
Two points (as a spectator only) about the drama:
1. I am utterly convinced that Demuslim is telling the truth here. Why? Because he has a good track record. On the
other hand: (before BitterDam) NASL had the worst track record of any major SC2 tournament regarding screwups, bad PR and unprofessionalism. And I'm sure some of that crap is still lingering around (see 'Sound Guy 101') even to this day.
2. In my opinion Demuslim made a big (albeit human) mistake bringing this up in the match, rather than just on the forums. I believe that he would had brought sufficient attention to this issue with his post alone, and without indirectly disrespecting Dimaga, the casters and some of the fans. This is not the first time this has happened (see Thorzain), and bringing it up in this manner is a huge PR no-no. I'd recommend trying to contain the rage until said Pro can get to the forum and then exploding. It's healthier in the long run.
/preaching If you're going by track record... I've never in my life let a person postpone a match for two weeks. Why would I have started here? This is a he-says-she-says argument. But if you want to look at track records, you'd know that we at the NASL are very hesitant to postpone matches even 1-2 days, let alone 1-2 weeks, and that we only make exceptions for major events such as MLG, Blizzcon, and GSL Code S games (the only times we've ever specifically allowed matches to be played after a broadcast date). Based on this, one would conclude that I never would have told DeMusliM he could play after Gigabyte, it's 100% not something I would ever do. Regardless, DeMusliM believes I did, and I'm saying I didn't... not much more to it than that.
You're right about one thing, it does look like a "he-said-she-said" argument. I don't know anything about you personally Xeris - for all I know you could be the second-coming of Jesus in regards to moral integrity. However, you work for an organization with a bad record and that affects you too. Many mistakes have been made, more than normal growing pains. It sucks, but if people are forced to choose between a stand-up player like Demuslim and officials from NASL, you can't possibly be surprised at the result (regardless of your personal track record).
Only you and Demuslim know what really happened. If you're innocent of charge, I wouldn't let these judgements affect you, as anyone who discusses the drama in here (including me) is obviously speculating without solid evidence. And regardless of opinions, I hope you and Demuslim are able to work things out! Professionals harboring animosity towards one another is quite possibly the worse thing that can happen to an online community.
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I'd hazard a guess and say that Demuslim asked something and Xeris heard it differently than it was intended by Demuslim and thus said yes, causing Demuslim to think one thing and xeris to think another? Is this possible Demuslim/Xeris?
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On June 15 2012 16:02 mrtomjones wrote:
I'd hazard a guess and say that Demuslim asked something and Xeris heard it differently than it was intended by Demuslim and thus said yes, causing Demuslim to think one thing and xeris to think another? Is this possible Demuslim/Xeris?
This is what I was thinking as well. From Demu's account, maybe when Xeris said yes he was acknowledging there would be a problem but not saying they could do anything about it? Idk, sounds like there's misinterpretation at work here, maybe neither is really at fault
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Germany18839 Posts
As Xeris/DemusliM are saying. Its a he-says-she-says argument. DemusliM believed it would be postponed until after Gigabyte while to Xeris it was made clear that it was NOT the case.
Not even making the eMails with time stamps would solve this situation as there is no fault in the written evidence but in community in PERSON at MLG. Its too bad for DemusliM as he is the one screwed regardless who's fault it is. After reading this thread, DemusliM will still be qualified for the finals, so I'm glad for him. He is a very good and entertaining player and he's usually very calm and honest, so I can't believe people call him out on writing wrong statements.
On the other hand, not knowing Xeris too well I still believe he knows his job and this was just a simple missunderstanding at MLG. I hope NASL / leagues really get rid of stuff like that before there is a need of not allowing a postpone at all, because that would certainly make the league be safe, but screw the players.
There are just so many tournaments. My 2 cents.
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On June 15 2012 10:00 TechNoTrance wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 09:47 Dexington wrote:On June 15 2012 09:32 Yamulo wrote:On June 14 2012 17:31 sVnteen wrote:
funny how every american suddenly has confidence in nony again eventhough he didn't even do well in the (USA ONLY !!!) WCS qualifier
hope hasu wins and he get's a spot in the finals right away but hero is reaaaaaaally good
hasu has shown quite good results lately but since pvp is his worst MU I don't think he will win
everything is possible in pvp though...
darkforce doing well in the TSL qualifier and I think he has moved away from diablo a bit so he is actually practicing sc2 the entire time so he has quite good chances against crazymoving
for demuslim vs dimaga I'm not sure who will win this one because I haven't seen much of dimaga lately
I saw some sjow games and he played really sloppy but after seeing nonys results in WCS USA I think sjow should have this nonetheless
predictions:
DrakFroce 2-1 Crazymoving
HasuObs 1-2 Hero
Dimaga 2-1 Demuslim
Nony 0-2 Sjow The same could be said for every other country. For example, the amount of faith you have for HasuObs is really confusing to anyone not from Germany. I have a lot of faith in Hasu. He just won EPS. What has Nony done to warrant any hype? Other than winning 3 series in WCS USA Does NonY have to win a major tournament to justify people being happy for him that he is playing better and has more confidence in himself? Someone who has a history of fighting with depression getting better and starting to do well is inspiring. He has come a pretty long way since half a year ago. Sorry if cheering for him offended anyone?
Yes, he has to win a major tournament. It's just that in my opinion, he doesn't deserve hype and people believing in him, cause he doesn't really practice at all compared to the ones working hard. We can empathize for him having depression, that's about it.
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On June 15 2012 17:04 emis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 10:00 TechNoTrance wrote:On June 15 2012 09:47 Dexington wrote:On June 15 2012 09:32 Yamulo wrote:On June 14 2012 17:31 sVnteen wrote:
funny how every american suddenly has confidence in nony again eventhough he didn't even do well in the (USA ONLY !!!) WCS qualifier
hope hasu wins and he get's a spot in the finals right away but hero is reaaaaaaally good
hasu has shown quite good results lately but since pvp is his worst MU I don't think he will win
everything is possible in pvp though...
darkforce doing well in the TSL qualifier and I think he has moved away from diablo a bit so he is actually practicing sc2 the entire time so he has quite good chances against crazymoving
for demuslim vs dimaga I'm not sure who will win this one because I haven't seen much of dimaga lately
I saw some sjow games and he played really sloppy but after seeing nonys results in WCS USA I think sjow should have this nonetheless
predictions:
DrakFroce 2-1 Crazymoving
HasuObs 1-2 Hero
Dimaga 2-1 Demuslim
Nony 0-2 Sjow The same could be said for every other country. For example, the amount of faith you have for HasuObs is really confusing to anyone not from Germany. I have a lot of faith in Hasu. He just won EPS. What has Nony done to warrant any hype? Other than winning 3 series in WCS USA Does NonY have to win a major tournament to justify people being happy for him that he is playing better and has more confidence in himself? Someone who has a history of fighting with depression getting better and starting to do well is inspiring. He has come a pretty long way since half a year ago. Sorry if cheering for him offended anyone? Yes, he has to win a major tournament. It's just that in my opinion, he doesn't deserve hype and people believing in him, cause he doesn't really practice at all compared to the ones working hard. We can empathize for him having depression, that's about it.
how dare a man have fans that believe in him. what a ridiculous thought.
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This would not have happened if NASL didn't insist on having this format of qualifiers, like I've said a million times before.
Please consider having groups of 4 or something that you only need the players for for one night or one weekend, after which they'll be done with their group and don't need to show up again until the final tournament (if they qualified).
These problems are never ever going to go away with this format in place.
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On June 15 2012 17:28 Talin wrote:
This would not have happened if NASL didn't insist on having this format of qualifiers, like I've said a million times before.
Please consider having groups of 4 or something that you only need the players for for one night or one weekend, after which they'll be done with their group and don't need to show up again until the final tournament (if they qualified).
These problems are never ever going to go away with this format in place.
Which would basically defeat the purpose of a league where you can see the players progressing over time..? I think the advantage NASL has over other tournaments is that you can tune in every week and see a match of a player you follow. With a GSL like format (what you're suggesting I think) you may see 1 day of matches of that player per season (+maybe offline finals) or outdated replays which is just boring to watch.
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I really like the NASL-format and I think it provides an interesting tournament. I also think the structure is a bit too conservative in how many players are kept from one season and to the next one - the level of play could be upped significantly by allowing more new players into the tournament. As to players complaining about the late hours when playing the games - well, tough titty, you knew that when you signed up.
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On June 15 2012 17:39 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 17:28 Talin wrote:
This would not have happened if NASL didn't insist on having this format of qualifiers, like I've said a million times before.
Please consider having groups of 4 or something that you only need the players for for one night or one weekend, after which they'll be done with their group and don't need to show up again until the final tournament (if they qualified).
These problems are never ever going to go away with this format in place. Which would basically defeat the purpose of a league where you can see the players progressing over time..? I think the advantage NASL has over other tournaments is that you can tune in every week and see a match of a player you follow. With a GSL like format (what you're suggesting I think) you may see 1 day of matches of that player per season (+maybe offline finals) or outdated replays which is just boring to watch.
It is not an advantage over other tournaments when every few matchdays there's a lot of red text on the page explaining what exactly went wrong this time and how many games weren't played. You can tune in every week to a watch of a player you follow, or you can tune in only to realize he didn't show up and/or the match was postponed.
It would have been an advantage over other tournaments if it actually worked like it was imagined, but it doesn't work, and it doesn't work because it's extremely impractical and impossible to schedule. So it turns out to be a disadvantage instead.
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EPT
