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On May 29 2012 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:25 JohnMatrix wrote:On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 00:33 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 28 2012 23:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 23:19 Rhaegar_tar wrote:[quote] The same can be said about Stephano in the past months, he's favored against any protoss in the world, and fyi he beat Hero in Blizzard cup and already beat Inori(in NASL qualifiers iirc), he also beat JYP who is quite high in your list, all of them in a very convincing way(almost stomps). Deal with it, recently Stephano is the best ZvP'er in the world right now. Compare this to this, only a biased person wouldn't say Stephano has been more impressive. MC is favoured against Stephano. That's why MC is currently 13-6 against Stephano and beat him just yesterday. Stephano has a 31% win rate vs MC, how does that make him favoured? He's only beaten MC once in five meetings. Where as DRG is 11-8 vs MC. Stephano's stats are padded by beating endless bad foreigners DRG could beat with funday monday strats. Against the best of the best DRG has the superior record. It's been over six months since DRG lost to a foreign Protoss in ZvP and in his entire career he's lost twice. Only five players have ever beaten DRG in a best 3/5/7/9 PvZ (Naniwa, Gatored, MC, Parting and JYP). No, Those 10 wins were ages ago when Stephano wasn't the beast he is nowadays in this match up. Just look at DRG's and Stepahno's record in the last months. No matter how you hate Stephano or love DRG...Objectively, Stephano has been more impressive, and don't start talking about what happened in the last 12 months, it's irrelevant. Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly. How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG? I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact. STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012. In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following: 1st GSL Code S Season 1 1st MLG Spring Arena 1 2nd MLG Winter Championships 2nd GSL Blizzard Cup 2nd MLG Winter Arena 1 3rd MLG Providence. That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S. Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012. But apparently Stephano has been more impressive? Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players. Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. Hm Stephano won Lone star Clash and beating Polt there. Plus Thorzain can be on your list with his recent DH victory. But to be fair overral Stephano had had a better result than Polt if we count their places in tournament (Stephano: 2nd Assebly winter, 1st Lone Star Clash, 5th IPL4, 3rd MLG Spring Arena, 3rd Red Bull Lan). Polt 1st Assembly Winter 2nd Dreamhack Stockholm 2nd Lone Star Clash 5th MLG Spring Arena 2. 7th IPL 4 13-16th MLG Winter Championships (from the Open bracket) He definitely edges it over Stephano by actually winning a Premier Tournament and finishing 2nd in another.
Lol, Stephano's latest results are much better than Polt's...How you can deny that is absolutely intriguing.
And by your reasoning, Thorzain is better than Stephano...Yeah ok.
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On May 29 2012 03:13 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 02:25 JohnMatrix wrote:On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 00:33 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 28 2012 23:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
MC is favoured against Stephano. That's why MC is currently 13-6 against Stephano and beat him just yesterday.
Stephano has a 31% win rate vs MC, how does that make him favoured? He's only beaten MC once in five meetings.
Where as DRG is 11-8 vs MC.
Stephano's stats are padded by beating endless bad foreigners DRG could beat with funday monday strats. Against the best of the best DRG has the superior record.
It's been over six months since DRG lost to a foreign Protoss in ZvP and in his entire career he's lost twice. Only five players have ever beaten DRG in a best 3/5/7/9 PvZ (Naniwa, Gatored, MC, Parting and JYP).
No, Those 10 wins were ages ago when Stephano wasn't the beast he is nowadays in this match up. Just look at DRG's and Stepahno's record in the last months. No matter how you hate Stephano or love DRG...Objectively, Stephano has been more impressive, and don't start talking about what happened in the last 12 months, it's irrelevant. Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly. How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG? I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact. STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012. In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following: 1st GSL Code S Season 1 1st MLG Spring Arena 1 2nd MLG Winter Championships 2nd GSL Blizzard Cup 2nd MLG Winter Arena 1 3rd MLG Providence. That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S. Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012. But apparently Stephano has been more impressive? Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players. Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. Hm Stephano won Lone star Clash and beating Polt there. Plus Thorzain can be on your list with his recent DH victory. But to be fair overral Stephano had had a better result than Polt if we count their places in tournament (Stephano: 2nd Assebly winter, 1st Lone Star Clash, 5th IPL4, 3rd MLG Spring Arena, 3rd Red Bull Lan). Polt 1st Assembly Winter 2nd Dreamhack Stockholm 2nd Lone Star Clash 5th MLG Spring Arena 2. 7th IPL 4 13-16th MLG Winter Championships (from the Open bracket) He definitely edges it over Stephano by actually winning a Premier Tournament and finishing 2nd in another. Lol, Stephano's latest results are much better than Polt's...How you can deny that is absolutely intriguing. And by your reasoning, Thorzain is better than Stephano...Yeah ok.
By latest results do you mean last week?
Because Polt finished second at Dreamhack only a few weeks ago.
I've explained my positions and any reasonable person can see that I am right.
Of course I will never convince the fanboys because they are immune to facts and logic.
On May 29 2012 02:55 Ylrahc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 00:33 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 28 2012 23:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 23:19 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 28 2012 20:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
My loose order:
1. MC
2. Hero
3. Squirtle
4. Oz
5. Genius
6. JYP
7. Puzzle
8. Parting
9. Crank
10. Creator
Stephano doesn't stomp Korean Protoss. He has wins vs some (Parting/Squirtle) and loses vs some (MC, Hero, Inori).
Stomping is what MMA does to Zerg i.e he's a clear favourite vs every Zerg in the world.
Stephano has a clear losing record vs MC which is not something you get from someone who stomps a certain race.
The same can be said about Stephano in the past months, he's favored against any protoss in the world, and fyi he beat Hero in Blizzard cup and already beat Inori(in NASL qualifiers iirc), he also beat JYP who is quite high in your list, all of them in a very convincing way(almost stomps). Deal with it, recently Stephano is the best ZvP'er in the world right now. Compare this to this, only a biased person wouldn't say Stephano has been more impressive. MC is favoured against Stephano. That's why MC is currently 13-6 against Stephano and beat him just yesterday. Stephano has a 31% win rate vs MC, how does that make him favoured? He's only beaten MC once in five meetings. Where as DRG is 11-8 vs MC. Stephano's stats are padded by beating endless bad foreigners DRG could beat with funday monday strats. Against the best of the best DRG has the superior record. It's been over six months since DRG lost to a foreign Protoss in ZvP and in his entire career he's lost twice. Only five players have ever beaten DRG in a best 3/5/7/9 PvZ (Naniwa, Gatored, MC, Parting and JYP). No, Those 10 wins were ages ago when Stephano wasn't the beast he is nowadays in this match up. Just look at DRG's and Stepahno's record in the last months. No matter how you hate Stephano or love DRG...Objectively, Stephano has been more impressive, and don't start talking about what happened in the last 12 months, it's irrelevant. Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly. How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG? I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact. STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012. In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following: 1st GSL Code S Season 1 1st MLG Spring Arena 1 2nd MLG Winter Championships 2nd GSL Blizzard Cup 2nd MLG Winter Arena 1 3rd MLG Providence. That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S. Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012. But apparently Stephano has been more impressive? Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players. Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. I don't give a damn about trophies, I give a damn about consistency and ranks in tournaments they participated in. Stephano has participated in more tournaments and has shown more consistency than quite a few people in your list. Does it make them worse ? Does it make him better ? Matter of opinion, ELO says he is about as good, that's all. Why do I care about consistency ? Because it's what shows if you're good in all matchups, or in only 1 or 2 of them. It's "easy" to win one tournament because you only get your best matchup against opponents that are not that good at it, it's "harder" to place well in most tournaments you enter because you have a versatile play. As for top5 top10 top20, as I said previously, it just has no sense. Most if not all of the best players in the world can win or lose against each other depending on preparation, current form, how they slept the previous night etc. Violet completely raped MLG 1 week ago and got eliminated w/o much glory at Red Bull Tournament. MC did the opposite (well he did not so bad at MLG ^^). Stephano ranked well in both of them. It's a matter of opinion, and nothing but that, to judge who is better among those 3. The ONLY way to rank them is ELO, and I do agree it has to many flaws to be really reliable. And if you look at international ELO, even with its flaws, it does make some sense does it ? Only koreans (except Stephano) in top18, DRG MKP MC in top5 (most successful koreans lately imho), Nestea MVP not that far behind (not bad considering they don't participate much in foreign tournaments), MMA a bit behind after his recent slight issues...So why should it be completely wrong about Stephano ? He does well in all 3 matchups, is consistent in his play, can win against the best players in the world, so he is ranked #1. It's how ELO works. ELO doesn't give a damn about how many trophies you won  And ofc that doesn't mean he would win in boX against all players behind him, not even that he would be favorite. That means that if he enters a tournament, he is the most likely to go far, and so far, he hasn't failed to deliver.
Aside from MVP (who is basically injured) Stephano hasn't been anymore consistant than those player.
And consistancy is great but winning is better, just ask Parting or Squirtle whether they'd rather have had MVP or Alive's 2012 or there own.
Thorzain's situation is hard to call because he's basically done nothing at all but win Dreamhack and that tournaments itself was clearly the weakest Premier LAN of the year so I think I would put Stephano ahead of that.
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On May 29 2012 03:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 03:13 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 29 2012 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 02:25 JohnMatrix wrote:On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 00:33 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
[quote]
No, Those 10 wins were ages ago when Stephano wasn't the beast he is nowadays in this match up.
Just look at DRG's and Stepahno's record in the last months. No matter how you hate Stephano or love DRG...Objectively, Stephano has been more impressive, and don't start talking about what happened in the last 12 months, it's irrelevant. Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly. How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG? I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact. STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012. In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following: 1st GSL Code S Season 1 1st MLG Spring Arena 1 2nd MLG Winter Championships 2nd GSL Blizzard Cup 2nd MLG Winter Arena 1 3rd MLG Providence. That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S. Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012. But apparently Stephano has been more impressive? Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players. Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. Hm Stephano won Lone star Clash and beating Polt there. Plus Thorzain can be on your list with his recent DH victory. But to be fair overral Stephano had had a better result than Polt if we count their places in tournament (Stephano: 2nd Assebly winter, 1st Lone Star Clash, 5th IPL4, 3rd MLG Spring Arena, 3rd Red Bull Lan). Polt 1st Assembly Winter 2nd Dreamhack Stockholm 2nd Lone Star Clash 5th MLG Spring Arena 2. 7th IPL 4 13-16th MLG Winter Championships (from the Open bracket) He definitely edges it over Stephano by actually winning a Premier Tournament and finishing 2nd in another. Lol, Stephano's latest results are much better than Polt's...How you can deny that is absolutely intriguing. And by your reasoning, Thorzain is better than Stephano...Yeah ok. By latest results do you mean last week? Because Polt finished second at Dreamhack only a few weeks ago. I've explained my positions and any reasonable person can see that I am right. Of course I will never convince the fanboys because they are immune to facts and logic. Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:55 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 00:33 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 28 2012 23:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 28 2012 23:19 Rhaegar_tar wrote:[quote] The same can be said about Stephano in the past months, he's favored against any protoss in the world, and fyi he beat Hero in Blizzard cup and already beat Inori(in NASL qualifiers iirc), he also beat JYP who is quite high in your list, all of them in a very convincing way(almost stomps). Deal with it, recently Stephano is the best ZvP'er in the world right now. Compare this to this, only a biased person wouldn't say Stephano has been more impressive. MC is favoured against Stephano. That's why MC is currently 13-6 against Stephano and beat him just yesterday. Stephano has a 31% win rate vs MC, how does that make him favoured? He's only beaten MC once in five meetings. Where as DRG is 11-8 vs MC. Stephano's stats are padded by beating endless bad foreigners DRG could beat with funday monday strats. Against the best of the best DRG has the superior record. It's been over six months since DRG lost to a foreign Protoss in ZvP and in his entire career he's lost twice. Only five players have ever beaten DRG in a best 3/5/7/9 PvZ (Naniwa, Gatored, MC, Parting and JYP). No, Those 10 wins were ages ago when Stephano wasn't the beast he is nowadays in this match up. Just look at DRG's and Stepahno's record in the last months. No matter how you hate Stephano or love DRG...Objectively, Stephano has been more impressive, and don't start talking about what happened in the last 12 months, it's irrelevant. Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly. How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG? I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact. STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012. In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following: 1st GSL Code S Season 1 1st MLG Spring Arena 1 2nd MLG Winter Championships 2nd GSL Blizzard Cup 2nd MLG Winter Arena 1 3rd MLG Providence. That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S. Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012. But apparently Stephano has been more impressive? Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players. Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. I don't give a damn about trophies, I give a damn about consistency and ranks in tournaments they participated in. Stephano has participated in more tournaments and has shown more consistency than quite a few people in your list. Does it make them worse ? Does it make him better ? Matter of opinion, ELO says he is about as good, that's all. Why do I care about consistency ? Because it's what shows if you're good in all matchups, or in only 1 or 2 of them. It's "easy" to win one tournament because you only get your best matchup against opponents that are not that good at it, it's "harder" to place well in most tournaments you enter because you have a versatile play. As for top5 top10 top20, as I said previously, it just has no sense. Most if not all of the best players in the world can win or lose against each other depending on preparation, current form, how they slept the previous night etc. Violet completely raped MLG 1 week ago and got eliminated w/o much glory at Red Bull Tournament. MC did the opposite (well he did not so bad at MLG ^^). Stephano ranked well in both of them. It's a matter of opinion, and nothing but that, to judge who is better among those 3. The ONLY way to rank them is ELO, and I do agree it has to many flaws to be really reliable. And if you look at international ELO, even with its flaws, it does make some sense does it ? Only koreans (except Stephano) in top18, DRG MKP MC in top5 (most successful koreans lately imho), Nestea MVP not that far behind (not bad considering they don't participate much in foreign tournaments), MMA a bit behind after his recent slight issues...So why should it be completely wrong about Stephano ? He does well in all 3 matchups, is consistent in his play, can win against the best players in the world, so he is ranked #1. It's how ELO works. ELO doesn't give a damn about how many trophies you won And ofc that doesn't mean he would win in boX against all players behind him, not even that he would be favorite. That means that if he enters a tournament, he is the most likely to go far, and so far, he hasn't failed to deliver. Aside from MVP (who is basically injured) Stephano hasn't been anymore consistant than those player. And consistancy is great but winning is better, just ask Parting or Squirtle whether they'd rather have had MVP or Alive's 2012 or there own.
I've explained my positions and any reasonable person can see that I am right.
Of course I will never convince the haters because they are immune to facts and logic.
And again, consistency or winning is a matter of PoV. ELO rates conistency, winnings are not rated by anything but SC2earnings.
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On May 29 2012 03:36 Ylrahc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 03:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 03:13 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 29 2012 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 02:25 JohnMatrix wrote:On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly.
How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG?
I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact.
STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012.
In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following:
1st GSL Code S Season 1
1st MLG Spring Arena 1
2nd MLG Winter Championships
2nd GSL Blizzard Cup
2nd MLG Winter Arena 1
3rd MLG Providence.
That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S.
Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012.
But apparently Stephano has been more impressive?
Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players.
Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. Hm Stephano won Lone star Clash and beating Polt there. Plus Thorzain can be on your list with his recent DH victory. But to be fair overral Stephano had had a better result than Polt if we count their places in tournament (Stephano: 2nd Assebly winter, 1st Lone Star Clash, 5th IPL4, 3rd MLG Spring Arena, 3rd Red Bull Lan). Polt 1st Assembly Winter 2nd Dreamhack Stockholm 2nd Lone Star Clash 5th MLG Spring Arena 2. 7th IPL 4 13-16th MLG Winter Championships (from the Open bracket) He definitely edges it over Stephano by actually winning a Premier Tournament and finishing 2nd in another. Lol, Stephano's latest results are much better than Polt's...How you can deny that is absolutely intriguing. And by your reasoning, Thorzain is better than Stephano...Yeah ok. By latest results do you mean last week? Because Polt finished second at Dreamhack only a few weeks ago. I've explained my positions and any reasonable person can see that I am right. Of course I will never convince the fanboys because they are immune to facts and logic. On May 29 2012 02:55 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:55 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:46 Ylrahc wrote:On May 29 2012 01:36 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 01:15 Choboo wrote:On May 29 2012 00:52 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 00:33 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On May 28 2012 23:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
MC is favoured against Stephano. That's why MC is currently 13-6 against Stephano and beat him just yesterday.
Stephano has a 31% win rate vs MC, how does that make him favoured? He's only beaten MC once in five meetings.
Where as DRG is 11-8 vs MC.
Stephano's stats are padded by beating endless bad foreigners DRG could beat with funday monday strats. Against the best of the best DRG has the superior record.
It's been over six months since DRG lost to a foreign Protoss in ZvP and in his entire career he's lost twice. Only five players have ever beaten DRG in a best 3/5/7/9 PvZ (Naniwa, Gatored, MC, Parting and JYP).
No, Those 10 wins were ages ago when Stephano wasn't the beast he is nowadays in this match up. Just look at DRG's and Stepahno's record in the last months. No matter how you hate Stephano or love DRG...Objectively, Stephano has been more impressive, and don't start talking about what happened in the last 12 months, it's irrelevant. Erm what? DRG won an MLG just a few weeks ago. DRG won a Code S this year and made the final of two MLG's. Stephano hasn't made a premier LAN final since Assembly. How on earth has Stephano been more impressive than DRG? I will repeat this as apparently some people are blind to this basic fact. STEPHANO HAS NOT WON A PREMIER LAN SINCE OCTOBER 2011. THAT IS 7 MONTHS AGO. HE HAS REACHED ONLY ONE PREMIER LAN FINAL IN 2012. In the time since Stephano won his last Premier LAN DRG has achieved the following: 1st GSL Code S Season 1 1st MLG Spring Arena 1 2nd MLG Winter Championships 2nd GSL Blizzard Cup 2nd MLG Winter Arena 1 3rd MLG Providence. That is the final of 4 Premier LAN's and the winner of 2 in 2012. Including the biggest and best tournament of all -- Code S. Stephano has made 1 Premier LAN final and won 0 in 2012. But apparently Stephano has been more impressive? Stephano is a very good Code S level player but his results in 2012 are so wildly overrated when in reality he's actually done worse than quite a few players. Alive, MKP, DRG, MMA, MC, MVP, Violet have all played better than Stephano in 2012. While I agree with you if one is to list Stephano's achievements in the same time-span and manner as you listed DRG's it isn't looking too shabby. 1st Lone Star Clash 2nd Assembly 3rd MLG Spring Arena 2 3rd Red Bull LAN The only thing that's really differentiating DRG and Stephano right now is GSL results but internationally they're about the same I'd say considering Stephano has #1 international ELO. Oh Stephano has played well this year for sure. He's having a solid 2012 and cementing his place as the best foreign player. I'm not arguing he's bad, average or anything like that. He's just not better than DRG, not the best ZvP in the world and not in worlds top five players like a lot of people are claiming. ELO is really silly as Taeja, Curious, Titan and Sen are proving right now. Well I made a fast search of DRG & Stephano ZvP latest matches on TL : Stephano won all his ZvP except vs MC (2 loss 1 win) & Hero (1 loss) DRG won all his ZvP except vs MC (1 loss 1 win) & Parting (1 loss 1 win) I'd say it's quite even. As for Stephano not being top5 player in the world right now, it's nothing but a matter of taste & opinion : if you ask 100 different ppl who top 5 is, you'll get 100 different answers...either you rely on a tool that has its flaws (international ELO) or you just throw random words in the wind that have no real meaning other than expressing your opinion. There's no need to rely on bad measures like ELO or personal opinion. All you need is results. The following players have done better than Stephano in 2012 because of cold, hard results on the table: DRG: Code S Season 1, MLG Spring Arena 1. MarineKing: MLG Winter Arena, MLG Winter Championship. MC: HSC IV, Red Bull Lan, IEM: WC. MVP: Code S Season 2. MMA: Iron Squid, IEM Kiev Violet: IEM Sao Paulo, MLG Spring Arena 2. Alive: IPL 4. Polt: Assembly Winter. Those are just Premier LAN trophies in the cabinet. Many of those players have also finished second, third, fourth etc.. at multiple events but I just took wins here. I think there's a case for Squirtle, Thorzain, Genius and Parting having played better too but they are a lot more debatable and come down to your interpretation of the value of Code S over other tournament as well as a guy like Thorzain who won a tournament but did nothing at all of note outside of that win so I will just stick with the eight players I listed who've objectively been more successful than Stephano in 2012. I don't give a damn about trophies, I give a damn about consistency and ranks in tournaments they participated in. Stephano has participated in more tournaments and has shown more consistency than quite a few people in your list. Does it make them worse ? Does it make him better ? Matter of opinion, ELO says he is about as good, that's all. Why do I care about consistency ? Because it's what shows if you're good in all matchups, or in only 1 or 2 of them. It's "easy" to win one tournament because you only get your best matchup against opponents that are not that good at it, it's "harder" to place well in most tournaments you enter because you have a versatile play. As for top5 top10 top20, as I said previously, it just has no sense. Most if not all of the best players in the world can win or lose against each other depending on preparation, current form, how they slept the previous night etc. Violet completely raped MLG 1 week ago and got eliminated w/o much glory at Red Bull Tournament. MC did the opposite (well he did not so bad at MLG ^^). Stephano ranked well in both of them. It's a matter of opinion, and nothing but that, to judge who is better among those 3. The ONLY way to rank them is ELO, and I do agree it has to many flaws to be really reliable. And if you look at international ELO, even with its flaws, it does make some sense does it ? Only koreans (except Stephano) in top18, DRG MKP MC in top5 (most successful koreans lately imho), Nestea MVP not that far behind (not bad considering they don't participate much in foreign tournaments), MMA a bit behind after his recent slight issues...So why should it be completely wrong about Stephano ? He does well in all 3 matchups, is consistent in his play, can win against the best players in the world, so he is ranked #1. It's how ELO works. ELO doesn't give a damn about how many trophies you won And ofc that doesn't mean he would win in boX against all players behind him, not even that he would be favorite. That means that if he enters a tournament, he is the most likely to go far, and so far, he hasn't failed to deliver. Aside from MVP (who is basically injured) Stephano hasn't been anymore consistant than those player. And consistancy is great but winning is better, just ask Parting or Squirtle whether they'd rather have had MVP or Alive's 2012 or there own. I've explained my positions and any reasonable person can see that I am right. Of course I will never convince the haters because they are immune to facts and logic. And again, consistency or winning is a matter of PoV. ELO rates conistency, winnings are not rated by anything but SC2earnings.
If you can't see that ELO is beyond retarded in the Sc2 scene there is zero hope for you.
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Red Bull LAN website is very impressive with their stats.
Stephano had the highest average APM during the tournament. Only Taeja comes close and he played literally half the number of games. Thorzain had the lowest average APM. I never knew Stephano was such a 'fast' player relatively speaking.
Stephano had the highest win percentage during this tournament with Bomber second. Ostojiy and LastShadow with the lowest win percentage on zero wins apiece.
The quickest victory was Squirtle against LastShadow. LastShadow surrendered to one stalker after 4:30 of playing. Thorzain against Sheth had the longest game.
Check it out. All the replays are on there too...
http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/001243035003218
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On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different.
I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup.
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Northern Ireland26044 Posts
http://www.mediafire.com/?272stpl7p5c6qqq
I know the replays are all up on there already, but I didn't like how they named the files so cleaned it up a bit. Was collating these for a friend anyway so enjoy all.
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I am waiting for the VODS. The casting is part of the excitement! I know most VODS are up, but not all. I guess Day9.tv will get updated soon?
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On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different. I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup.
you're missing the point.
everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype.
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And all ins win another tournament. If it wasn't MC I'd be sad.
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On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different. I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup. you're missing the point. everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype.
If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements.
For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano!
I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha.
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On May 29 2012 04:26 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different. I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup. you're missing the point. everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype. If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements. For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano! I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha.
If Stephano was Korean people would just see him as a Jjakji/Alive type player. i.e a solid Code S guy who on his day can win a major tournament but not in the MMA/MVP/MKP/DRG/MC level of constant success.
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On May 29 2012 04:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 04:26 revel8 wrote:On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different. I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup. you're missing the point. everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype. If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements. For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano! I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha. If Stephano was Korean people would just see him as a Jjakji/Alive type player. i.e a solid Code S guy who on his day can win a major tournament but not in the MMA/MVP/MKP/DRG/MC level of constant success.
No. People would not hate on him for stupid reasons. They would not ignore his extraordinary level of consistency. They would not make excuses for his opponents when he beats them. They would not go through extraordinary lengths to attempt to belittle his achievements.
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On May 29 2012 04:38 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 04:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 04:26 revel8 wrote:On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different. I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup. you're missing the point. everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype. If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements. For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano! I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha. If Stephano was Korean people would just see him as a Jjakji/Alive type player. i.e a solid Code S guy who on his day can win a major tournament but not in the MMA/MVP/MKP/DRG/MC level of constant success. No. People would not hate on him for stupid reasons. They would not ignore his extraordinary level of consistency. They would not make excuses for his opponents when he beats them. They would not go through extraordinary lengths to attempt to belittle his achievements.
erm there's people out there who still maintain that MC is bad (after $250,000 and some 6+ major LAN wins). He gets it far worse than Stephano.
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On May 29 2012 04:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 04:38 revel8 wrote:On May 29 2012 04:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 29 2012 04:26 revel8 wrote:On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different. I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup. you're missing the point. everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype. If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements. For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano! I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha. If Stephano was Korean people would just see him as a Jjakji/Alive type player. i.e a solid Code S guy who on his day can win a major tournament but not in the MMA/MVP/MKP/DRG/MC level of constant success. No. People would not hate on him for stupid reasons. They would not ignore his extraordinary level of consistency. They would not make excuses for his opponents when he beats them. They would not go through extraordinary lengths to attempt to belittle his achievements. erm there's people out there who still maintain that MC is bad (after $250,000 and some 6+ major LAN wins). He gets it far worse than Stephano.
And those people are rightly mocked. As are those who continue to attempt to belittle Stephano's abilities.
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I think Aeroplaneoverthesea is obvious troll.
Why feed the troll when you can just ignore it?
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On May 29 2012 04:21 Natespank wrote:
And all ins win another tournament. If it wasn't MC I'd be sad.
...
MC v Stephano
Game 1 - macro
Game 2 - all-in (win)
Game 3 - all-in (lose)
Game 4 - macro
Game 5 - macro
MC v Bomber
Game 1 - macro
Game 2 - failed all-in from Bomber
Game 3 - macro I believe
Game 4 - macro
Game 5 - macro
Game 6 - Bomber does heavy marine pressure, MC holds, wins with his DT expand while still making probes, taking a third, and setting up double forge while having a robo facility
??????
Another tourney definitely won by all-ins, when exactly one of MC's wins in the semifinals to finals was one. MC y u never take third even though one of your builds was one gate double nexus expand, and you got up to 3+ base on 3/5 games versus Stephano and 5/6 versus Bomber with the 6th one being a one base hellion/marauder all-in?
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I've never really liked MC....but this was great, nothing to say :p ( I'm BossToss !)
Really more entertaining that when he used to all-in almost every game ^^. ( long time ago i know  )
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lol at people still doubting Stephano's skill, he is code S level for sure.. not top top code S but an average code S player. He would struggle against Hero and MMA....
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EPT
