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Red Bull Battlegrounds Live Updates - Day 2 - Page 272

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Thurken
Profile Joined September 2011
961 Posts
May 29 2012 17:39 GMT
#5421
On May 30 2012 01:44 Benjamin99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2012 10:13 Shaddar wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:44 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:38 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:26 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:
On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:
On May 29 2012 02:17 Kkxtrouble wrote:
Some people seen to think that Stephano is some kind of SC2 god. Were he Korean things would be different.

I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup.



you're missing the point.

everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype.



If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements.

For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano!

I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha.


If Stephano was Korean people would just see him as a Jjakji/Alive type player. i.e a solid Code S guy who on his day can win a major tournament but not in the MMA/MVP/MKP/DRG/MC level of constant success.


No. People would not hate on him for stupid reasons. They would not ignore his extraordinary level of consistency. They would not make excuses for his opponents when he beats them. They would not go through extraordinary lengths to attempt to belittle his achievements.


erm there's people out there who still maintain that MC is bad (after $250,000 and some 6+ major LAN wins). He gets it far worse than Stephano.



And those people are rightly mocked. As are those who continue to attempt to belittle Stephano's abilities.


Half the reason people do that is because he keeps getting massively overhyped, 35% of people picked him to win this tourney, compared to 11% for MC...and I'll bet if he was Korean there's no way he would have been seen as the favourite to win


You cant not overhype one of the best players in the world. Its like saying DRG and MVP are overhyped. I felt he should have won this tournament but MC got him congratz to MC.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2012 20:24 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 10:13 Shaddar wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:44 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:38 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:26 revel8 wrote:
On May 29 2012 04:16 jj33 wrote:
On May 29 2012 03:50 tdt wrote:
[quote]
I doubt it. Even Korean pros think he's fantastic. Sure he may not win but you can't win them all in SC2. Game has never had anyone people just say they are impossible to beat yet like in BW but he's near top of players who can win any matchup.



you're missing the point.

everybody knows Stephano is good. what he's saying is if Stephano was Korean, he'd just be another really good Korean player. but since he's a foreigner he gets that extra foreigner bias and hype.



If Stephano was Korean, you would not have people attempting to constantly discredit his achievements.

For example, poster writes Stephano struggles against Korean Protoss, then this becomes Parting is not very good at PvZ, then becomes Squirtle does not care about the $3000 at stake in matches against Stephano!

I guess the haters have moved on from claiming Stephano being French stops him from being a successful pro-gamer. Haha.


If Stephano was Korean people would just see him as a Jjakji/Alive type player. i.e a solid Code S guy who on his day can win a major tournament but not in the MMA/MVP/MKP/DRG/MC level of constant success.


No. People would not hate on him for stupid reasons. They would not ignore his extraordinary level of consistency. They would not make excuses for his opponents when he beats them. They would not go through extraordinary lengths to attempt to belittle his achievements.


erm there's people out there who still maintain that MC is bad (after $250,000 and some 6+ major LAN wins). He gets it far worse than Stephano.



And those people are rightly mocked. As are those who continue to attempt to belittle Stephano's abilities.


Half the reason people do that is because he keeps getting massively overhyped, 35% of people picked him to win this tourney, compared to 11% for MC...and I'll bet if he was Korean there's no way he would have been seen as the favourite to win


+ Show Spoiler +
I disagree about the reasoning. Stephano has had people scoffing at his potential since he became a Pro. There was a thread about his ladder run in EU. Haters scoffed at him and said he would get owned at LANS. He won IPL3 and the haters said he only won because his opponents were unprepared for his style. He struggled against Korean Terrans at MLG and the haters said he has been found out by the opponents he beat a week or so before at IPL3. He won ESWC and the haters said that he would be found out soon. He went to Korea for Blizzard Cup and within a week had smashed into the Korean GM Ladder beating ForGG, Sage, Bomber repeatedly. Haters said ladder does not matter and that Koreans are not playing those games to win because they are saving their strategies for LANS. They said he would get owned at Blizzard Cup. He went 2-2 at Blizzard Cup and went out despite having the same score as MC (due to the head-to-head). Haters said he only beat Hero because Hero was having an off-day - clearly untrue. Whenever Stephano beats a Korean his bashers make attempts to belittle this achievement by disrespecting these opponents. Oh Bomber is not very good, Puma is average, Polt is just OK, JYP is not so good, Ryung is no good etc. No-one else gets this level of disrespect. When Jjakji rose to win GSL did haters slag off the opponents he defeated? Did people disrespect DRG's opponents last year?

Stephano has not gone away, he has improved during 2012. The haters have been embarrassed by their predictions of his failure being wide of the mark and yet some are still clinging to them despite the ever-growing evidence that Stephano is actually pretty good at SC2. Now they are reduced to saying he will fail in GSL due to the preparations aspect or that DRG is still better at ZvP in an attempt to put down Stephano. They should try and be objective and acknowledge that their intial doubts have been proven unfounded. Haters should just hold up their hands and admit they were wrong in their predictions about Stephano being a flash in the pan.

SC2 has only been around for a few years, but already we can see new players have emerged during that time. During Beta no-one had heard of DRG, Stephano, Jjakji, Squirtle or Bomber. It was all about Tester, Fruitdealer, Idra and MakaPrime. The players at the top have changed somewhat although some players like MC and MKP have endured. Some players have risen and some players have fallen. Even the game has changed, with new maps and new patches and a new meta-game.

Stephano gets a lot of attention and hype because he is a Foreigner tearing up the scene. If there were other Foreigners doing this to the same extent, then this attention would be shared. So it is up to other players to raise their game. Maybe Thorzain, Ret, Mana, Sheth or Illusion could go up a gear. Who knows? I don't know the future, but I do know that if someone I had not anticipated started doing really well, I would not ignore the evidence and bash them due to outdated predictions.

Stephano is good for the foreign SC2 scene. He gives hope to other Foreign pros and his popularity helps sustain Foreign Tournaments. Even if you don't like him personally, that should be acknowledged. Of course some want the Foreign scene to die. Not me. I think it is great having IPL, MLG, DreamHack, IronSquid, IEM, Assembly etc plus all the numerous mini-tournaments. It is my understanding that Boxer's popularity helped establish the BW scene in Korea. If Stephano's popularity can help establish a sustaining SC2 Foreign Scene then that is certainly a good thing. I am not crediting Stephano with being the Foreign Boxer of SC2, but if the Foreign Scene becomes sustaining and growing in popularity then all SC2 pros and fans will benefit. Stephano is helping with that.



Amasing post

People in polls do not especially overhype Stephano but foreigners in general imo. It is useless to bash the foreign players or the community for that. If you don't like that, maybe you could try to implement a betting system with money or points and this biais would probably disappear.
Reval
Profile Joined January 2012
United States297 Posts
May 29 2012 20:10 GMT
#5422
Are the vods fixed?

The audio was all over the place when I tried to watch them at first. 2 days without internet =(
Ozzon
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland110 Posts
May 29 2012 22:32 GMT
#5423
There is still no VOD for the final match, the one we currently have is cut in half! when can we expect the whole version?
HappyTimePANDA
Profile Joined March 2012
United States167 Posts
May 30 2012 01:20 GMT
#5424
Sigh, wish Stephano or Violet had won. Hate seeing MC win. Had ignored this because I couldn't watch.

Oh well, will they be releasing replays anytime before the next update? Like IPL and not ridiculous like MLG.
Violet | Leenock | Life | Symbol | Jaedong | DRG
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-30 01:28:06
May 30 2012 01:27 GMT
#5425
On May 30 2012 10:20 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
Sigh, wish Stephano or Violet had won. Hate seeing MC win. Had ignored this because I couldn't watch.

Oh well, will they be releasing replays anytime before the next update? Like IPL and not ridiculous like MLG.

Maybe do a tiny tiny google or TL search before asking
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340675
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
power-overwhelming
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada306 Posts
May 30 2012 04:11 GMT
#5426
I dont mind when fans are cheering for stephano, it's the excuses that gets me. Everytime he loses he's either "hungover" or "drunk" or "didn't care". I remember that MC vs Stephano IPL FC thread got so ridiculous. MC won 5:3 in the end but Stephano fans were saying how if it were a best of 3 stephano would've won, or how the "series started 2:1 in stephs favour".

Said fans then whine when Stephano gets hated, well for the most part he is hated because of you fanboys wanking him so much
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
May 30 2012 13:09 GMT
#5427
Stephano is Tier-1. He's one of the first players to make the foreigner vs Korean argument moot. He 2-0'd Bomber at MLG, and he's gone toe-to-toe with MC plenty of times. On a given day, he can beat any of the top 5 Korean players in the power ranking listed over in this region here ------------------------->

Along with ThorZain and maybe (Socke/Huk/NaNiwa), Stephano is going to be one of the players that erases the "Koreans vs The World" line, and makes it a simply "Top 10 Players" list.

shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
chosenkerrigan
Profile Joined May 2011
858 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-30 13:29:15
May 30 2012 13:25 GMT
#5428
On May 30 2012 22:09 Crownlol wrote:
Stephano is Tier-1. He's one of the first players to make the foreigner vs Korean argument moot. He 2-0'd Bomber at MLG, and he's gone toe-to-toe with MC plenty of times. On a given day, he can beat any of the top 5 Korean players in the power ranking listed over in this region here ------------------------->

Along with ThorZain and maybe (Socke/Huk/NaNiwa), Stephano is going to be one of the players that erases the "Koreans vs The World" line, and makes it a simply "Top 10 Players" list.



Stephano is top tier ZvP AND ZvT, but his ZvZ is not good enuogh by Korean standard. However, there is no other foreigner who is consistent enough to be considered in the same league as Stephano. He is simply an outlier.
I agree that Stephano could beat any of the top 5 Kr players on a given day, but so could probably 20 other Koreans. How Stephano will do in the future depends on how hard he practices with whom. Stephano definitely has got huge talent, but the talent would be useless unless he trains as hard as all the best Koreans do. Starcraft scene would be vastly more competitive with all the BW pros transitions finished.

As for the Foreigner vs Korean argument, well there should never be one. Korean SC2 progamers are more dominant than China's table tennis or Brazil/Spain's soccer. Stephano is the only one competitive against even the best of the best Koreans.
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
May 31 2012 16:20 GMT
#5429
Are the Parting vs Stephano VODS ever going to be uploaded? Is Day9 going to upload the vids from Day 2 to his site?
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