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On May 27 2012 10:05 MuseMike wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:00 Aliosh wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 Bwaaaa wrote:On May 27 2012 09:56 Evangelist wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see  See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. Yeah, he only sniped the 4th and killed off 4 hts with one ghost with perfect, awesome placement, had higher upgrades and then built 6 vikings to counter 2 colossi. It is a damn shame. Did you see how far behind he was after the earl game? Even with that he was still behind. The problem is late game TvP being so unforgiving for T, one mistake and it's game loss while the opposite is not true So SaSe got everything EMP'd in game two, made one mistake, then lost. It is still very unforgiving for P. It is common knowledge that PvT often comes down to one engagement.
Only because SaSe was 2 base v 3 base for quite a while.
On equal economy P doesn't die after 1 big engagement as long as they have bank.
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On May 27 2012 09:58 r4pture wrote:
Is it just me, or is the place lookin kinda empty?
People've been leaving and coming back all day so it varies. I don't think they even sold tickets for the very top balcony. Still a good bit of people though. I imagine it'll pick up tomorrow with the more heated matches.
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1 Bo3 then long break each time.... Glad, there is GSL to save my sanity.
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On May 27 2012 10:04 Braric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:57 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. i guess u play protoss Zerg is my main race actually, but Terran being behind 27 workers and being able to come back is just fine right? Also losing 80% of your vikings should be a okay vs protoss with colossi right? You must play Terran. lets ignore all the damage that Thorzain did like killing the third and killing the forge allowing him to get super far ahead in upgrades. Thorzain got back in that game because of mules
And SaSe was able to put the pressure on initially by spending all of his chronoboost on warp gates...no 1 or 2 liner is enough of an argument to quote without any comment.
I came in here looking for a schedule but the OP is lacking one, can anyone link? Sorry if this has been stated before :/
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On May 27 2012 09:59 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:57 Strela wrote:On May 27 2012 09:55 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:
It's funny how the T are complaining about toss....i would like to see a toss or zerg be 15 workers to almost 40 and be able to make it an even 27 minute game.... do you even play this game or just make remarks that dont make sense? Explain to me how a Zerg or Protoss would come back after losing 37 workers and have 15 vs 39 harvesters genius?? Hurrr durrr
It was 16 + 2 mules vs 31 not 39vs15, and all things got even up a bit with great drop/poordefense. I can ask you how a terran can do such economical damage with his 2nd base established at the 7 min mark. Thorzain had better midgame/lategame skill, sase is good at taking the edge early.
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ouch...was hoping for a better crowd than that.
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On May 27 2012 10:08 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:05 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 10:00 Aliosh wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 Bwaaaa wrote:On May 27 2012 09:56 Evangelist wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. Yeah, he only sniped the 4th and killed off 4 hts with one ghost with perfect, awesome placement, had higher upgrades and then built 6 vikings to counter 2 colossi. It is a damn shame. Did you see how far behind he was after the earl game? Even with that he was still behind. The problem is late game TvP being so unforgiving for T, one mistake and it's game loss while the opposite is not true So SaSe got everything EMP'd in game two, made one mistake, then lost. It is still very unforgiving for P. It is common knowledge that PvT often comes down to one engagement. Only because SaSe was 2 base v 3 base for quite a while. On equal economy P doesn't die after 1 big engagement as long as they have bank.
Personally I feel like its the complete opposite, I have seen many games where Protoss will win an engagement convincingly only to get stomped by a next wave of bio units being rolled out, not to mention if Protoss loses against Terran in an engagement a small group of bio units with Medivacs can just snowball out of control
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 27 2012 10:09 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:04 Braric wrote:On May 27 2012 10:02 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:57 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. i guess u play protoss Zerg is my main race actually, but Terran being behind 27 workers and being able to come back is just fine right? Also losing 80% of your vikings should be a okay vs protoss with colossi right? You must play Terran. lets ignore all the damage that Thorzain did like killing the third and killing the forge allowing him to get super far ahead in upgrades. Thorzain got back in that game because of mules And SaSe was able to put the pressure on initially by spending all of his chronoboost on warp gates...no 1 or 2 liner is enough of an argument to quote without any comment. I came in here looking for a schedule but the OP is lacking one, can anyone link? Sorry if this has been stated before :/
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14831091
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On May 27 2012 10:04 Braric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:02 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:57 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. i guess u play protoss Zerg is my main race actually, but Terran being behind 27 workers and being able to come back is just fine right? Also losing 80% of your vikings should be a okay vs protoss with colossi right? You must play Terran. lets ignore all the damage that Thorzain did like killing the third and killing the forge allowing him to get super far ahead in upgrades. Thorzain got back in that game because of mules
I also think SaSe made a suboptimal decision when being ahead too. I feel a follow up 2-base timing attack either with colossi or templar instead of taking a third would have been the better choice given the amount of damage he did. No way in hell Thorzain would have been able to hold that with the economy he was left with.
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On May 27 2012 10:06 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 27 2012 09:59 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:On May 27 2012 09:57 Strela wrote:On May 27 2012 09:55 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:
It's funny how the T are complaining about toss....i would like to see a toss or zerg be 15 workers to almost 40 and be able to make it an even 27 minute game.... do you even play this game or just make remarks that dont make sense? Explain to me how a Zerg or Protoss would come back after losing 37 workers and have 15 vs 39 harvesters genius?? Hurrr durrr ummm I have seen multiple times where Zerg loses a ton of drones to hellions or banshees, then just cranks out a huge round of them and go on to win the game. So you have seen multiple times when a zerg has lost 37 drones to hellions, the T has two or maybe more orbitals and are 20 workers ahead but the zerg just makes a few rounds of drones and WAHLAH, game is even again?? ELL OH ELL
Dude, that's exactly what would happen with Ret.
He used to overdrone to like 100, even as he was getting ravaged and had no units, so his drone count would end up being optimal by the time the harrassment was over.
Stop being so belligerent. I even support your position that Terran has it pretty easy (comparatively) getting back into the game economically from bankruptcy (if you have zero money, you can't chrono boost or spend larvae on anything) but you just sound like a dick now and it's very rare that players actually have zero money.
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On May 27 2012 10:00 Serinox wrote:
I have developed a hate against Protoss, I really like Zerg and Terran, I like TaeJa, I like Sheth, I fucking love ThorZaIN and I dislike SaSe. And now who advances...FML!
Do you dislike Hasu and Socke, too?
On another note, this game shouldn´t be used for balance whine. Sase got a big lead in the beginning, then Tzain fought his way back in with nice Ghost play and the Nexus snipe. The final engagement came down to execution. Sase did better there, so he won. End of story.
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On May 27 2012 10:10 Braric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:08 S_SienZ wrote:On May 27 2012 10:05 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 10:00 Aliosh wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 Bwaaaa wrote:On May 27 2012 09:56 Evangelist wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. Yeah, he only sniped the 4th and killed off 4 hts with one ghost with perfect, awesome placement, had higher upgrades and then built 6 vikings to counter 2 colossi. It is a damn shame. Did you see how far behind he was after the earl game? Even with that he was still behind. The problem is late game TvP being so unforgiving for T, one mistake and it's game loss while the opposite is not true So SaSe got everything EMP'd in game two, made one mistake, then lost. It is still very unforgiving for P. It is common knowledge that PvT often comes down to one engagement. Only because SaSe was 2 base v 3 base for quite a while. On equal economy P doesn't die after 1 big engagement as long as they have bank. Personally I feel like its the complete opposite, I have seen many games where Protoss will win an engagement convincingly only to get stomped by a next wave of bio units being rolled out, not to mention if Protoss loses against Terran in an engagement a small group of bio units with Medivacs can just snowball out of control
......
where are these games you have been watching?
Warpgate mechanic effectively means P is always 1 production cycle ahead when both sides are reproducing after a 200 food fight.
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ok stop that discussion, did anyone see that retard?
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On May 27 2012 10:08 Braric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 10:05 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 10:00 Aliosh wrote:On May 27 2012 09:58 Bwaaaa wrote:On May 27 2012 09:56 Evangelist wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 MuseMike wrote:On May 27 2012 09:53 OzVelas wrote:On May 27 2012 09:51 Braric wrote:
Games like this make me question why Terran try to make accusations of Protoss late game imbalance now u see See what? Thorzain didn't get any good snipe or emps off in that engagement? He lost most of his vikings too. Yeah, he only sniped the 4th and killed off 4 hts with one ghost with perfect, awesome placement, had higher upgrades and then built 6 vikings to counter 2 colossi. It is a damn shame. Did you see how far behind he was after the earl game? Even with that he was still behind. The problem is late game TvP being so unforgiving for T, one mistake and it's game loss while the opposite is not true So SaSe got everything EMP'd in game two, made one mistake, then lost. It is still very unforgiving for P. It is common knowledge that PvT often comes down to one engagement. Honestly all I can think of when Terran talk about late game imbalance against Protoss is simply "Wait a second, I actually have to micro for once?" It's such a joke to see Terrans attack into a bunch of storms, colossus while having inferior upgrades and then complain. I fear the day Terran realize they can actually sacrifice their workers in order to get a much stronger army.
I was talking to Drewbie about this the other day and he said that most of the Terran that complain about TvP build 80 scv's, are still going mmm after 30 minutes with like 2-3 ghosts and a few viking and are thus 'fucking retards'. When they learn to use ghosts properly and in late game mass ghosts/viking with nukes they will be fine. Evidence of this and i point this out EVERY SINGLE TIME terrans complain is to watch EmpireHappy play lategame TvP. Watch him please so you quit your bitching
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Redbull obviously taking notes from ProLeague here...
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On May 27 2012 09:55 Kaitokid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:54 TheDougler wrote:
Great game!
Man, so many good engagements by ThorZain... one not so good one. PvT sometimes... .... thorzain was down to 16 workers after Sase's 3 gate aggression lol he was behind pretty much all game long
He was muling off of two CCs the entire time and sase was behind in tech. ThorZain wasn't that far behind. The mules make up for about 10 harvesters (five per orbital).
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On May 27 2012 10:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:EG just raped Liquid in this bracket too. Time for round two. Revenge?
I forgot "Round 2" ...
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The deciding game with no analyst casting? D: Oh well, I do love me some Husky.
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On May 27 2012 10:01 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:59 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:On May 27 2012 09:57 Strela wrote:On May 27 2012 09:55 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:
It's funny how the T are complaining about toss....i would like to see a toss or zerg be 15 workers to almost 40 and be able to make it an even 27 minute game.... do you even play this game or just make remarks that dont make sense? Explain to me how a Zerg or Protoss would come back after losing 37 workers and have 15 vs 39 harvesters genius?? Hurrr durrr We can't tech switch or remax nearly as fast as the other 2 races. It's a result of difference in core macro mechanics. Deal with it. I'd gladly trade MULES for Larvae inject and Zerg production.
not to mention it's impossible to hold any push without pulling Scvs (we dont have queens, spines, forcefields) and the other races have more workers anyway and can make them faster. So it's not a fair comparison.
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On May 27 2012 10:12 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 09:55 Kaitokid wrote:On May 27 2012 09:54 TheDougler wrote:
Great game!
Man, so many good engagements by ThorZain... one not so good one. PvT sometimes... .... thorzain was down to 16 workers after Sase's 3 gate aggression lol he was behind pretty much all game long He was muling off of two CCs the entire time and sase was behind in tech. ThorZain wasn't that far behind. The mules make up for about 10 harvesters (five per orbital).
You fall immensely behind in other aspects other than just income when you lose that many workers though.
He couldn't scan to clear obs or check sase's tech switches in 9-11minute marks which results in having to play so much more blind/defensive or try for something risky.
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EPT
