Casters: Isaac "Azael" Cummings-Bentley & Bryce "Machine" Bates
Format
The Evil Geniuses Master’s Cup Series League will feature 12 teams in a round robin format with each team matchup containing at least four best of three games between two teams. The top four teams at the end of the season will advance to the playoffs on a two day live broadcast weekend. Results Team Liquid vs. Millenium
Is this Her0 (with a zero) a joke I'm not familiar with, his actual ID, or what ? Just seems weird that two people would say that separately if it wasnt already a thing.
Edit: @Bagration - I dont think Adelscott/Ret is quite a walkover. He's recently beaten Violet and Morrow in Bo3's. Still would call Ret a favourite though.
On May 01 2012 10:44 Bibbit wrote: Is this Her0 (with a zero) a joke I'm not familiar with, his actual ID, or what ? Just seems weird that two people would say that separately if it wasnt already a thing.
Edit: @Bagration - I dont think Adelscott/Ret is quite a walkover. He's recently beaten Violet and Morrow in Bo3's. Still would call Ret a favourite though.
Maybe people see HerO with a capital o but think it's a 0 instead.
I got a question guys, do the Teams pick the Players for each Map? So they know the Maps? because i am wondering why you would go with feast on Dual Sight and diestar on entombed and not the other way around... What did Mill expect here hmhm?
Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
On May 01 2012 16:53 Otolia wrote: Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
Code S... Ro32 vs. Curious, Ro16 vs. Leenock (and potentially July). Of course he's been practising PvZ.
Does anyone know if stephano actually showed up for this one? It's kind of the highlight of the match, and I'd hate to stay up late just for it to be a W.O.
Zenio > Feast - Feast is studying and Zenios ZvP is really good. But Zenio has to be careful not to lose to 2base all-ins
TaeJa > DieStar - Even though DieStar surprised with his performances so far TaeJa should have this.
Ret < Adelscott - Adel donked several zergs already (although I have no idea why it works every time). If Ret is prepared it won't work, but don't count on that.
HerO > Stephano - It is still HerO. Stephano could do it, but I don't think he can.
Stephano vs Hero is fucking sick, I hope the real Stephano turns up to play, not flakey online Stephano. This is gonna be awesome, everyone should tune in to watch this.
On May 01 2012 16:53 Otolia wrote: Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
Code S... Ro32 vs. Curious, Ro16 vs. Leenock (and potentially July). Of course he's been practising PvZ.
Stephano should win this, anyone who saw Stephano vs MC should know that Stephano was close to win, besides Stephano already beat Hero in blizzard cup and Hero didn't train againnst Zerg because of Code S for a while.Stephano should win this 2-0 imo.
Soooooo cool lineups ! Really hoping Millenium gets a good result here !
Zenio 2-0 Feast, Feast does not like playing against zerg lately Taeja 2-0 Diestar, sorry Diestar, you're the underdog here ! Ret 1-2 Adelscott, I believe ! Hero 0-2 Stephano, pleasepleaseplease
On May 01 2012 16:53 Otolia wrote: Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
Code S... Ro32 vs. Curious, Ro16 vs. Leenock (and potentially July). Of course he's been practising PvZ.
*cough* Entombed Valley *cough*
You asked if he had been practicing vs zerg the guy said yes he has because he has been playing zergs. I fail to see how your comment is a relevant response.
On May 01 2012 22:55 Fragile51 wrote: Hero's PvZ as of late has been nothing short of spectacular. Stephano is gonna need to pull a small miracle to actually beat him i think.
The thing is, I doubt HerO has played any PvZ in weeks (he certainly had no reason to). Stephano should have a good shot at taking him out this time.
On May 01 2012 16:53 Otolia wrote: Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
Code S... Ro32 vs. Curious, Ro16 vs. Leenock (and potentially July). Of course he's been practising PvZ.
*cough* Entombed Valley *cough*
You asked if he had been practicing vs zerg the guy said yes he has because he has been playing zergs. I fail to see how your comment is a relevant response.
That's because you both fail to see that was an ironic comment on HerO ugly (I said ugly and not bad) PvZ.
On May 01 2012 22:55 Fragile51 wrote: Hero's PvZ as of late has been nothing short of spectacular. Stephano is gonna need to pull a small miracle to actually beat him i think.
The thing is, I doubt HerO has played any PvZ in weeks (he certainly had no reason to). Stephano should have a good shot at taking him out this time.
On May 01 2012 16:53 Otolia wrote: Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
Code S... Ro32 vs. Curious, Ro16 vs. Leenock (and potentially July). Of course he's been practising PvZ.
*cough* Entombed Valley *cough*
You asked if he had been practicing vs zerg the guy said yes he has because he has been playing zergs. I fail to see how your comment is a relevant response.
That's because you both fail to see that was an ironic comment on HerO ugly (I said ugly and not bad) PvZ.
Am I reading this wrongly? HerO has ugly PvZ? HerO has one of the best/innovative PvZs in the business... Abusive maybe. Ugly? Maybe if youre the zerg I guess... lol
Hero will roll Stephano and as a result Liquid will win. Their only previous encounter was almost a half year ago when people weren't used to Stephano's style and Hero has improved a TON since then.
On May 01 2012 22:55 Fragile51 wrote: Hero's PvZ as of late has been nothing short of spectacular. Stephano is gonna need to pull a small miracle to actually beat him i think.
The thing is, I doubt HerO has played any PvZ in weeks (he certainly had no reason to). Stephano should have a good shot at taking him out this time.
edit: unless i'm missing some kind of running joke
I have no idea how what you're saying has anything to do with what I'm saying.
The only remaining Code S players are Terran and Protoss. After he got out of the RO16 group, he's had no reason to play any PvZ at all, and I doubt he would prepare specifically for team league either (at least I hope to god he won't and is focusing only on his Code S match -_-).
On May 01 2012 22:55 Fragile51 wrote: Hero's PvZ as of late has been nothing short of spectacular. Stephano is gonna need to pull a small miracle to actually beat him i think.
The thing is, I doubt HerO has played any PvZ in weeks (he certainly had no reason to). Stephano should have a good shot at taking him out this time.
edit: unless i'm missing some kind of running joke
I have no idea how what you're saying has anything to do with what I'm saying.
The only remaining Code S players are Terran and Protoss. After he got out of the RO16 group, he's had no reason to play any PvZ at all, and I doubt he would prepare specifically for team league either (at least I hope to god he won't and is focusing only on his Code S match -_-).
I don't know how much the games are played in advance but he beat Crazymoving and IdrA in the Nasl/EGMC last week.
On May 01 2012 16:53 Otolia wrote: Zenio > Feast : Zenio is a professional player who was in this Code S season. Feast has been focusing on preparing for his high-school exams and barely plays nowadays (and that since IEM World). If Zenio lose, he may as well retire now.
TaeJa > DieStar : TaeJa was in SlayerS so we can expect a good TvT from him, DieStar isn't bad at this match-up but you can't compare them.
Ret < Adelscott : Unless Ret plays less greedy and/or uses Special Tactics, I don't see him winning this series. Adel has been pwning zergs left and right and these games should be no different.
HerO < Stephano : Did HerO ever trained against zerg in the last 2 months ?
Ace : ??? < Stephano : Maybe TaeJa or Zenio has a shot, or send TLO for the ZvZ gamble.
Code S... Ro32 vs. Curious, Ro16 vs. Leenock (and potentially July). Of course he's been practising PvZ.
*cough* Entombed Valley *cough*
You asked if he had been practicing vs zerg the guy said yes he has because he has been playing zergs. I fail to see how your comment is a relevant response.
That's because you both fail to see that was an ironic comment on HerO ugly (I said ugly and not bad) PvZ.
Am I reading this wrongly? HerO has ugly PvZ? HerO has one of the best/innovative PvZs in the business... Abusive maybe. Ugly? Maybe if youre the zerg I guess... lol
On May 01 2012 23:26 VoirDire wrote: I hope either Feast, DieStar or Adel takes a game so that we may see a Stephano vs Hero game.
EG MCSL plays the first 4 sets no matter what, so we dont necessarily need a Millenium player to win in order to reach that. What we do need, however, is for Stephano to show up. >_>
On May 01 2012 10:55 DizkYSUP wrote: I got a question guys, do the Teams pick the Players for each Map? So they know the Maps? because i am wondering why you would go with feast on Dual Sight and diestar on entombed and not the other way around... What did Mill expect here hmhm?
Yeah, they know the maps but not who their opponent will be so there can be a lot of mind games w/ who will play each map expecting a certain race to come out and trying to counter pick etc :D
On May 02 2012 05:06 Rhaegar_tar wrote: I think that Millenium will send Adel instead of Stephano if there is an ace match....
Millenium sending anyone else but Stephano would be a win for Liquid. Their choices are limited, given Taeja and HerO are present to play the ace match for Liquid.
On May 02 2012 05:06 Rhaegar_tar wrote: I think that Millenium will send Adel instead of Stephano if there is an ace match....
Millenium sending anyone else but Stephano would be a win for Liquid. Their choices are limited, given Taeja and HerO are present to play the ace match for Liquid.
Taeja vs Z is an instant loss for the Zerg imho.
If there is an ace match and Liquid send Taeja, Stephano is a bad choice. If Liquid send anyone else, Stephano is a good choice.
On May 02 2012 05:06 Rhaegar_tar wrote: I think that Millenium will send Adel instead of Stephano if there is an ace match....
Millenium sending anyone else but Stephano would be a win for Liquid. Their choices are limited, given Taeja and HerO are present to play the ace match for Liquid.
Taeja vs Z is an instant loss for the Zerg imho.
If there is an ace match and Liquid send Taeja, Stephano is a bad choice. If Liquid send anyone else, Stephano is a good choice.
Liquid will probably send either Hero or Taeja and Adel has a good chance against them(he has a really weird playstyle to which koreans are not accustomed, and PvP being a coinflip matchup).
Stephano went 3-5 against MC, the best PvZ in the world, just last weekend. I'd expect him to win against Hero 2-1. If he goes in the ace match, I'd give 50/50 chance against Taeja, 65/35 against Zenio and 60/40 against Hero.
On May 02 2012 07:54 Benjamin99 wrote: Hero winning vs Stephano you must be kidding
You said the same rubbish in the MC Fight Club thread, and then MC went and won.
Hero is more than capable of beating Stephano
On May 02 2012 07:33 MetalPanda wrote: Stephano went 3-5 against MC, the best PvZ in the world, just last weekend. I'd expect him to win against Hero 2-1. If he goes in the ace match, I'd give 50/50 chance against Taeja, 65/35 against Zenio and 60/40 against Hero.
This comparison doesn't work at all because Hero is the exact opposite type of PvZer to MC, to the point where they're barely playing the same race.
And Taeja is well above 50% chance to beat Stephano. Stephano is poor vs Korean Terran's.
On May 02 2012 07:33 MetalPanda wrote: Stephano went 3-5 against MC, the best PvZ in the world, just last weekend. I'd expect him to win against Hero 2-1. If he goes in the ace match, I'd give 50/50 chance against Taeja, 65/35 against Zenio and 60/40 against Hero.
This comparison doesn't work at all because Hero is the exact opposite type of PvZer to MC, to the point where they're barely playing the same race.
And Taeja is well above 50% chance to beat Stephano. Stephano is poor vs Korean Terran's.
I wouldn't take it that far
Still, I actually think that Hero and MC's playstyles are similar simply due to them being on the same team for many months and living in the same team house for many more months. I also think that Stephano would be favored against Hero, but Hero winning would not be surprising either.
On May 02 2012 07:54 Benjamin99 wrote: Hero winning vs Stephano you must be kidding
You said the same rubbish in the MC Fight Club thread, and then MC went and won.
Hero is more than capable of beating Stephano
On May 02 2012 07:33 MetalPanda wrote: Stephano went 3-5 against MC, the best PvZ in the world, just last weekend. I'd expect him to win against Hero 2-1. If he goes in the ace match, I'd give 50/50 chance against Taeja, 65/35 against Zenio and 60/40 against Hero.
This comparison doesn't work at all because Hero is the exact opposite type of PvZer to MC, to the point where they're barely playing the same race.
And Taeja is well above 50% chance to beat Stephano. Stephano is poor vs Korean Terran's.
I wouldn't take it that far
Still, I actually think that Hero and MC's playstyles are similar simply due to them being on the same team for many months and living in the same team house for many more months. I also think that Stephano would be favored against Hero, but Hero winning would not be surprising either.
no mc is more the timing attack guy and hero likes macro games more with multipronged attacks and harassments
On May 02 2012 02:09 Chunhyang wrote: 2-2. Feast with the upset, Stephano with a win.
Then Stephano v Hero again in the ace, with Stephano repeating.
it would be wiser to send taeja or zenio in the ace imo
Yeah, you're right, especially with Hero's GSL participation and stuff, it wouldn't be wise to reveal builds.
LOL you do realize that there are no more zergs in the Ro8 right? So HerO has no new builds to reveal... People are saying TaeJa would be better against Stephano because TaeJa has really good TvZ and Stephano looks the weakest in his ZvT.
ugh, feast didn't even baby his sentries and zenio was able to pick them off pretty quickly. Thought he could still hold off the push after that. Well executed build by Feast. GG
On May 02 2012 11:07 TheAngryZergling wrote: are 2 base timings Feast's shtick or is he equally comfortable in more macro oriented games? I know he's strong but I'm clueless to his style.
That immortal sentry push is terrifying.
yeah, feast loves 2 bases timings, though he seem to vary his tactics recently (not today) he also has a terrific PvP (watch his games vs Hero) and sickest blink micro (we didn't get to see it today)
On May 02 2012 11:07 TheAngryZergling wrote: are 2 base timings Feast's shtick or is he equally comfortable in more macro oriented games? I know he's strong but I'm clueless to his style.
That immortal sentry push is terrifying.
yeah, feast loves 2 bases timings, though he seem to vary his tactics recently (not today) he also has a terrific PvP (watch his games vs Hero) and sickest blink micro (we didn't get to see it today)
Yep, dem 2base timings, MC's Feast's bread and butter.
On May 02 2012 11:07 TheAngryZergling wrote: are 2 base timings Feast's shtick or is he equally comfortable in more macro oriented games? I know he's strong but I'm clueless to his style.
That immortal sentry push is terrifying.
yeah, feast loves 2 bases timings, though he seem to vary his tactics recently (not today) he also has a terrific PvP (watch his games vs Hero) and sickest blink micro (we didn't get to see it today)
Yep, dem 2base timings, MC's Feast's bread and butter.
wp by diestar to keep his composure after the proxy rax/bunker and kept making the right decisions the rest of the game, including the surprising (to me at least) viking land on taeja's tanks.
Oh good Taeja won? I turned the stream off because it was frustrating how bad he was playing but I suppose even at his worst he is good enough to take the win. =D
On May 02 2012 12:04 Bagration wrote: How did the game Diestar win go? Impressive that he was able to take a game off Taeja and come so close to winning. I guess I underestimated the guy.
taeja proxy 2 raxed and diestar held. then he just played standard and won.
On May 02 2012 12:04 Bagration wrote: How did the game Diestar win go? Impressive that he was able to take a game off Taeja and come so close to winning. I guess I underestimated the guy.
taeja proxy 2 raxed and diestar held. then he just played standard and won.
That game looked like Teaja was lagging incredibly badly, that was probably the worst micro I've ever seen from him, and there were things where he just had like a 2 second delay on his actions.
Adelscott plays really well when he just confidently does what he does. Weird, unusual play (such as that forge-gateway cheese) prompted by fears of the opponent's capabilities almost never works. I think Ret's macro really intimidates Adelscott.
On May 02 2012 12:21 FlyingTurtle wrote: Adelscott plays really well when he just confidently does what he does. Weird, unusual play (such as that forge-gateway cheese) prompted by fears of the opponent's capabilities almost never works. I think Ret's macro really intimidates Adelscott.
It's almost like Ret's fearless impeccable macro frightens him.
That tip about warp gate research delay in order to get stargate, is that accurate? If so, that's a pretty sweet tip. Any similar scouting tip for TvP? i.e.: 2 gas + no instant research = void ray OR 2 gas + research = DT or something along those lines
On May 02 2012 12:47 Azarkon wrote: Ugh, the casters need to stop saying it's very uncharacteristic of Stephano to get supply blocked - he gets supply blocked all the time :|
12 minutes - 108/192 supply Not getting supply blocked again this game o.0
On a related note, there is serious potential for a drinking game on "I mean", "I think" and "You know" lines.
I'm not the world's biggest stephano fan but wtf is up with his play? not up to his usual level. I'm hoping he can at least make this series exciting. Hero couldn't've been even practicing vZ lately given the GSL ro8 populace.
On May 02 2012 12:49 TheAngryZergling wrote: I'm not the world's biggest stephano fan but wtf is up with his play? not up to his usual level. I'm hoping he can at least make this series exciting. Hero couldn't've been even practicing vZ lately given the GSL ro8 populace.
This game was played a week ago, 3-4 days before his match vs. MC.
On May 02 2012 12:54 TheAngryZergling wrote: I can't believe stephano won that engagement so well even after blowing his infestor energy on harassment ITs and down on upgrades.
I hear mass muta pretty good vs zealot, immortal, colossus. Phoenix can infinitely kite mutas, but direct engagement isn't exactly cost effective.
On May 02 2012 12:54 TheAngryZergling wrote: I can't believe stephano won that engagement so well even after blowing his infestor energy on harassment ITs and down on upgrades.
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring. In my opinion, playing the original brood war music would be awesome. It would complement both the Brood War and SC2 players. Plus, that BW music is so much better.
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring.
This game is tense. The slightest bad engagement and it will immediately end.
Imo Stephano should have sacked that base and sent his drones and army to the other middle expansion. Would have saved those three broodlords and one more mining base.
On May 02 2012 13:08 figq wrote: Hero should run around the map and exploit the broodlord slowness, just killing hatcheries.
thats why stephano has a spine great wall of china. it's actually really stupid to do that as it traps your whole army and you cant find a favorable engagement against the zerg deathball
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring.
This game is tense. The slightest bad engagement and it will immediately end.
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring.
This game is tense. The slightest bad engagement and it will immediately end.
I don't feel it as tense. Maybe it's me. The casters are really making it hard for me to enjoy the game. It just might be the fact that they don't have explosive personalities
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring.
This game is tense. The slightest bad engagement and it will immediately end.
I don't feel it as tense. Maybe it's me. The casters are really making it hard for me to enjoy the game. It just might be the fact that they don't have explosive personalities
No, it's just weird passivity from both players and really bad attack decisions
On May 02 2012 13:08 figq wrote: Hero should run around the map and exploit the broodlord slowness, just killing hatcheries.
thats why stephano has a spine great wall of china. it's actually really stupid to do that as it traps your whole army and you cant find a favorable engagement against the zerg deathball
not quite Dimaga size, he has good amount of spine crawlers but not quite there yet
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring.
This game is tense. The slightest bad engagement and it will immediately end.
I don't feel it as tense. Maybe it's me. The casters are really making it hard for me to enjoy the game. It just might be the fact that they don't have explosive personalities
No, it's just weird passivity from both players and really bad attack decisions
And a mix of casters with no personality lol. I don't mean to criticize, but this is really bad on all parts.
Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to fight Protoss. Ultras and banelings with the army? Dimaga style?
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
I'm sorry, what? Did you miss the 5+ feedbacks that killed full energy infestors? I call that using HTs.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
I'm sorry, what? Did you miss the 5+ feedbacks that killed full energy infestors? I call that using HTs.
I meant storm, but I didn't see him use feedbacks in that fight he won near his main.
- Kidding aside, good game so far between Steph and Hero, don't know why stephano is floating 2.5k though with no econ, and not pulling all his defensive spines up to the front. Really need those in this situation.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
Ret said it in another thread - there's no way to prevent stalkers from blinking underneath your broods. Blink range is huge, and moving your infestors forward to stop stalkers from blinking puts them into feedback range.
Well, Stephano could have spread his creep all the way to hero's mining base and use his spine crawlers to force the engagment. He had a ton of spines and also a bunch of units. If Stephano combined his forces, he would have won that game.
Interesting game, but what I don't think was commentated on was that Stephano didn't have an overseer positioned to stop cloaked templars pulling off those first major feedbacks where he lost so many infestors. Pretty basic mistake as he knew where the mothership was.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
I'm sorry, what? Did you miss the 5+ feedbacks that killed full energy infestors? I call that using HTs.
I meant storm, but I didn't see him use feedbacks in that fight he won near his main.
It was the fight by heros 4th and 5th that he used feedback on a bunch of infestors and crushed stephanos army.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
Ret said it in another thread - there's no way to prevent stalkers from blinking underneath your broods. Blink range is huge, and moving your infestors forward to stop stalkers from blinking puts them into feedback range.
I'd be really excited to see a zerg start trying to use banes with the broods, possibly getting 6ish broods then transitioning to ultra/baneling..
i don't know how you could make it work, but any composition that allows you to counter the archon toilet by filling the vortex with banelings sounds fun to me. Actually, does that even work? Do banes kill units in vortices? I haven't seen it since the invincibility change with the vortex.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
Ret said it in another thread - there's no way to prevent stalkers from blinking underneath your broods. Blink range is huge, and moving your infestors forward to stop stalkers from blinking puts them into feedback range.
I'd be really excited to see a zerg start trying to use banes with the broods, possibly getting 6ish broods then transitioning to ultra/baneling..
i don't know how you could make it work, but any composition that allows you to counter the archon toilet by filling the vortex with banelings sounds fun to me. Actually, does that even work? Do banes kill units in vortices? I haven't seen it since the invincibility change with the vortex.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
Ret said it in another thread - there's no way to prevent stalkers from blinking underneath your broods. Blink range is huge, and moving your infestors forward to stop stalkers from blinking puts them into feedback range.
I'd be really excited to see a zerg start trying to use banes with the broods, possibly getting 6ish broods then transitioning to ultra/baneling..
i don't know how you could make it work, but any composition that allows you to counter the archon toilet by filling the vortex with banelings sounds fun to me. Actually, does that even work? Do banes kill units in vortices? I haven't seen it since the invincibility change with the vortex.
Maybe they're not using banes because it cuts into the gas needed for BLs and infestors? I'm not sure.
On May 02 2012 12:58 BlazeFury01 wrote: This game is extremely boring...I really hope future pro sc2 games are more intense.
That's just how zvp is
Mutas in ZvP make for pretty bad games. Muta into Deathball vs Deathball is even worse. The current style Stephano is playing also is made to counter Hero's WP harass, making it even duller. This is like the opium of games.
Yeah, I see that. I think they should also let the game music in the background play. Hearing the casters voices with no music makes it hard to get amped for a game this boring.
This game is tense. The slightest bad engagement and it will immediately end.
I don't feel it as tense. Maybe it's me. The casters are really making it hard for me to enjoy the game. It just might be the fact that they don't have explosive personalities
No, it's just weird passivity from both players and really bad attack decisions
And a mix of casters with no personality lol. I don't mean to criticize, but this is really bad on all parts.
Those compositions are designed to snowball any victory. If you lose your mothership without the money vortex, most protoss would then lose everything without killing more than 20 supply. If you get blunked and lose all your brood lords, the protoss is gonna instantly be able to resupply and will usually be able to counter attack and kill you. These two managed to fight pretty damn evenly with compositions that are not designed to trade. The casters aren't screaming about it, but this is why they keep asking "how the hell did hero do that?" and saying "no other protoss in the world wins that fight, and Hero makes it look so easy"
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
Ret said it in another thread - there's no way to prevent stalkers from blinking underneath your broods. Blink range is huge, and moving your infestors forward to stop stalkers from blinking puts them into feedback range.
I'd be really excited to see a zerg start trying to use banes with the broods, possibly getting 6ish broods then transitioning to ultra/baneling..
i don't know how you could make it work, but any composition that allows you to counter the archon toilet by filling the vortex with banelings sounds fun to me. Actually, does that even work? Do banes kill units in vortices? I haven't seen it since the invincibility change with the vortex.
Don't think it does but I could be wrong.
Err I don't know what you mean in the "vortices" but if you put in three rows of banes into a toilet, it kills all the archons before they can kill the broodlords.
You know, at least Stephano is willing to try making attacks with the brood lord infestor composition. In this case it might have cost him the game, but by doing this he learns how to attack and engage properly. In the long run it helps him become a better player with good attack sense. Contrast this to Dimaga, who will turtle for the win, but we often see him miss all these great opportunities to make strong attacks with his brood lords which he never takes because he isn't willing to try.
On May 02 2012 13:11 Azarkon wrote: Late game Zerg is not unstoppable at all, and HerO showed why. Hell, he didn't use HTs and Vortex and he still crushed that army. Zergs are going to have to come up with better late game compositions to compete with Protoss - ultras and banelings with the army?
That last engagement Stephano got himself in a horrible position where all the stalkers could blink right underneath the BLs, and all but two infestors were still on their way so no fungals
Ret said it in another thread - there's no way to prevent stalkers from blinking underneath your broods. Blink range is huge, and moving your infestors forward to stop stalkers from blinking puts them into feedback range.
I'd be really excited to see a zerg start trying to use banes with the broods, possibly getting 6ish broods then transitioning to ultra/baneling..
i don't know how you could make it work, but any composition that allows you to counter the archon toilet by filling the vortex with banelings sounds fun to me. Actually, does that even work? Do banes kill units in vortices? I haven't seen it since the invincibility change with the vortex.
it takes an absurd # of banelings and the archons spread out much quicker than the broods so the banes aren't as effective as you'd expect.
On May 02 2012 13:22 GodOfWar wrote: wow, Stephano losing to an Protoss, other than MC?
Looks like HerO indeed has top notch PvZ
I don't think Stephano is that good of a comparison, he loses a lot more to Korean tosses, DRG is still the ZvPer to watch out for, and HerO's like 2-8 against DRG or something like that.
good micro by hero but he could see those roaches massing up. 1 round of sentry warpins ahead of time would have held that counter. Hero's better than that.
On May 02 2012 13:22 GodOfWar wrote: wow, Stephano losing to an Protoss, other than MC?
Looks like HerO indeed has top notch PvZ
Stephano tends to lose to korean tosses a lot more then foreign tosses, I am not surprised he lost to hero.
What? Please name all the korean tosses Stephano lost to.
How about the only korean Protoss that Stephano has won sets against? JYP. Stephano doesn't play Korean tosses that much. It's a straight-up fact lol.
Inori. Tails. Its right he doesnt play them much. So don't make wrong statements that he loses a lot.
Well he's lost to 3/4 so should have said it less like a lot but he loses to them when he doesn't lose to foreign tosses as much.
He should now be 2/5 as I dont' see him losing this game vs hero where he forgot warpgate as well but we'll see, just saying it's not surprising when he loses to a korean toss ^^.
only foreign toss he's lost to is babyknight and titan. whoever that is.
On May 02 2012 13:22 GodOfWar wrote: wow, Stephano losing to an Protoss, other than MC?
Looks like HerO indeed has top notch PvZ
Stephano tends to lose to korean tosses a lot more then foreign tosses, I am not surprised he lost to hero.
What? Please name all the korean tosses Stephano lost to.
He's played 4 koreans and lost to 3 of them in 2012 (going by TLPD).
He lost to inori at MLG, lost to MC twice also in a bo7 show match, and beat JYP.
So it's only 4, but he lost to 3 of the 4.
So he lost to 2 Korean tosses and thats enough for "Stephano tends to lose to korean tosses a lot more". Idk.
3. ^^, like I said I should have worded it differently then a lot, but I am not surprised to see him lose to korean tosses at all. You shouldn't be either, beating up on foreign tosses is nice and his zvp is very good when it comes to that but koreans pvz lately has been insanely strong.
Also looks like he might be 1/5 vs koreans in 2012 if he loses to hero. Not a lot but shows how much stronger korean protosses are then foreign ones even if it's only 5 series.
Good to see someone actually massing Immortals vs that Roach crap. I know it was way too late, but something liek 6 Immortals is just going to shut down any kind of mass Roach crap.
Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
I was laying on my bed listening to the game (because of complete bordem from watching it) and I thought machine was gretorp LOL they sound so much alike.
On May 02 2012 13:50 BlazeFury01 wrote: I was laying on my bed listening to the game (because of complete bordem from watching it) and I thought machine was gretorp LOL they sound so much alike.
Yeah! Machine sounds so much like Gretorp, the first time I watched I thought it was Gretorp.
I was rooting for HerO and that still was at the level of "holy shit" painful to watch.
I'm going to attribute that last match to the mind fuck of HerO's 10 minute warp gate research strat + the phoenix killing a lot of queens and Stephano forgetting to replace them?
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
Erm, 3-5 MC doesn't count? Given that MC is the best PvZ in Korea with his 2012 win record...
His best record vs. top Korean TvZers is 1-2 MKP - after MKP became top dog, that is. MKP being one of the top TvZs in Korea.
His ZvZ... 1-2 Nestea, the best ZvZ in Korea. It's all about the same. He's able to compete with the very best, but not win against them. People below that level, though, lose all the time to Stephano.
Guess Hero got bored after completely outplaying Stephano in game 1 because his play was rather sloppy after that. No surprise that Hero won the series though, always fun to watch Hero play PvZ.
That late warpgate really fucked with Stephano. Maybe intentionally making mistakes will be the new vs. Stephano metagame? Anyways, that first game was unreal by HerO. Good stuff.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
Erm, 3-5 MC doesn't count? Given that MC is the best PvZ in Korea with his 2012 win record...
His best record vs. top Korean TvZers is 1-2 MKP - after MKP became top dog, that is. MKP being one of the top TvZs in Korea.
His ZvZ... 1-2 Nestea, the best ZvZ in Korea. It's all about the same. He's able to compete with the very best, but not win against them. People below that level, though, lose all the time to Stephano.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
Erm, 3-5 MC doesn't count? Given that MC is the best PvZ in Korea with his 2012 win record...
His best record vs. top Korean TvZers is 1-2 MKP - after MKP became top dog, that is. MKP being one of the top TvZs in Korea.
His ZvZ... 1-2 Nestea, the best ZvZ in Korea. It's all about the same. He's able to compete with the very best, but not win against them. People below that level, though, lose all the time to Stephano.
People below that level, lose all the time to Stephano?
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
Erm, 3-5 MC doesn't count? Given that MC is the best PvZ in Korea with his 2012 win record...
His best record vs. top Korean TvZers is 1-2 MKP - after MKP became top dog, that is. MKP being one of the top TvZs in Korea.
His ZvZ... 1-2 Nestea, the best ZvZ in Korea. It's all about the same. He's able to compete with the very best, but not win against them. People below that level, though, lose all the time to Stephano.
I think Curious beat Stephano recently. Leenock vs Stephano has yet to be seen too.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
Erm, 3-5 MC doesn't count? Given that MC is the best PvZ in Korea with his 2012 win record...
His best record vs. top Korean TvZers is 1-2 MKP - after MKP became top dog, that is. MKP being one of the top TvZs in Korea.
His ZvZ... 1-2 Nestea, the best ZvZ in Korea. It's all about the same. He's able to compete with the very best, but not win against them. People below that level, though, lose all the time to Stephano.
I think Curious beat Stephano recently. Leenock vs Stephano has yet to be seen too.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
he just lost to MC in the IPL fight club and lost to inori at MLG.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
I think him going 3-5 against MC is far more telling of Stephano PvZ skill level. There was server lag, and that does help the zerg, but the fact that he can take games off the best PvZers in the world is a good sign. And if anyone wants to argue that he needs to do better than just take some games off top PvZers to be considered a Code S zerg, I would like to remind you of exactly how many zergs there are in Code S right now.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
Erm, 3-5 MC doesn't count? Given that MC is the best PvZ in Korea with his 2012 win record...
His best record vs. top Korean TvZers is 1-2 MKP - after MKP became top dog, that is. MKP being one of the top TvZs in Korea.
His ZvZ... 1-2 Nestea, the best ZvZ in Korea. It's all about the same. He's able to compete with the very best, but not win against them. People below that level, though, lose all the time to Stephano.
People below that level, lose all the time to Stephano?
In 2012, Curious, JYP, Bomber, Zenio, and Violet are all Korean players Stephano possess a winning record vs. None of these players are the best of the Korean scene in their vZ match-up, but they are all Code A / low Code S level. Foreigners-wise, Stephano has a winning record against every top foreigner in the scene minus Naniwa*.
* In 2012, besides Naniwa, the foreigners he has a losing record vs is BeastyQT at 1-2 and BabyKnight at 0-3, two players who are not that well known. Yeah, he's 0-3 vs. BabyKnight, an ex-Dota player who has PvZ as his worst match-up but manages to beat Stephano every time they meet.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
he just lost to MC in the IPL fight club and lost to inori at MLG.
He's played vs the best PvZ players in the world imo and the games vs Hero were ridiculously close, it could've went either way.
Saying his ZvP sucks because he lost to MC and Hero who are the best PvZ players at the time is like saying his ZvT sucks if he lost to MMA or his ZvZ sucks if he lost to DRG or Nestea. The only upset is Inori imo, but Koreans are Koreans so meh.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
"Code S " player is tossed around often because it's exactly what it is. A player from code S. It isn't like in brood war where "S" is a class. Once someone reaches Code S, it is generally accepted that that player be called a "Code S" player, since he's playing in code S, after all, it's an accurate description and title. I do agree it's a bad measuring tool but I can see why people toss around the term so often.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
lmao I love how people just toss around the word "specialist" everywhere they go. xD
lmao Stephano played like shit especially in the last game. Wow he lost like most of his queens, 3 of them were walking around the map just for laying creep??? Damn he banked up like 5k at 1 point. Terrible macro, terrible micro and decision making with mass roaches and corruptors.
On May 02 2012 13:49 nkr wrote: Stephano is by far the best foreigner zerg, but he has never been close to beat a code S level protoss. In my opinion his ZvT is a lot more solid, as he can take on the best terrans out there.
How are you so sure about that? He hasn't played any "Code S" level protoss really. The closest would be Hero It seems and he went 1-2 against him. Not to mention that Hero is a PvZ specialist too and has had his fair share of practice in this last month in that particular match-up.
I also don't understand how people can use the term "Code S" player so often. So many players fall in and out of Code S each season that it just feels like a bad measuring tool. Especially when using it for protosses since there wasn't many protoss in code S until recently.
lmao I love how people just toss around the word "specialist" everywhere they go. xD
lmao I love how people just toss around the word "lmao" and "xD" everywhere they go. xD
HerO <GSL Entombed Valley> Stephano. Once again HerO uses this crappy map against zerg to finish Bo3. Curious, Leenock and Stephano all falled to him on this map.
Ret did really good, TaeJa won as expected but Zenio lost. He should be ashamed of being Code S and losing to someone who doesn't train in his worst match-up. "Koreans are better" they said ...
And the obvious conclusion of this Clan War is that Millenium is eliminated, even though they have a very good line-up.
On May 02 2012 17:18 Otolia wrote: HerO <GSL Entombed Valley> Stephano. Once again HerO uses this crappy map against zerg to finish Bo3. Curious, Leenock and Stephano all falled to him on this map.
Players picking maps that favor the way they play, how dare they. Also Stephano picking Antiga because it works best for what he's doing, how evil of him.
Although in general, this is why having BO3 in team leagues is a horrible, horrible idea. It's sad to see organizers caving in to the preferences of the audience, even though most of the audience hasn't ever even watched a proper team league to understand the intricacies of the format and why BO1 sets are, in fact, a million times better for this format. -_-
On May 01 2012 18:57 Nelz wrote: Stephano played his match against Hero 2 days after came back from holiday, so it will be hard seeing the result against MC.
Just quoting myself.
Just wait the spring arena or GSL, even if i think he's not going to accept, at least for the next GSL, and please stop the discussion about Stephano being code S, code A or code Z, that's so painfull to read all the time, yes i'm a stephano fan, just enjoy his win or his loss, lover or hater.
On May 02 2012 17:18 Otolia wrote: HerO <GSL Entombed Valley> Stephano. Once again HerO uses this crappy map against zerg to finish Bo3. Curious, Leenock and Stephano all falled to him on this map.
Players picking maps that favor the way they play, how dare they. Also Stephano picking Antiga because it works best for what he's doing, how evil of him.
Although in general, this is why having BO3 in team leagues is a horrible, horrible idea. It's sad to see organizers caving in to the preferences of the audience, even though most of the audience hasn't ever even watched a proper team league to understand the intricacies of the format and why BO1 sets are, in fact, a million times better for this format. -_-
I'm not offended because he picked this map. So there is no reason for you to bold your mockery. :/
It's just that his latest success in PvZ are largely due to this map on which he has only lost one game (against aLive and that was PvT).
On May 02 2012 17:18 Otolia wrote: HerO <GSL Entombed Valley> Stephano. Once again HerO uses this crappy map against zerg to finish Bo3. Curious, Leenock and Stephano all falled to him on this map.
Players picking maps that favor the way they play, how dare they. Also Stephano picking Antiga because it works best for what he's doing, how evil of him.
Although in general, this is why having BO3 in team leagues is a horrible, horrible idea. It's sad to see organizers caving in to the preferences of the audience, even though most of the audience hasn't ever even watched a proper team league to understand the intricacies of the format and why BO1 sets are, in fact, a million times better for this format. -_-
I'm not offended because he picked this map. So there is no reason for you to bold your mockery. :/
It's just that his latest success in PvZ are largely due to this map on which he has only lost one game (against aLive and that was PvT).
I never implied that you're offended - just that you're downplaying someone's success.
His PvZ success is not "due to the map", it's due to him being good and winning on it (and it's not the only map he wins on anyway).
This isn't great news for Stephano. Even though it IS hero, it's still him losing to a korean just after being announced for the GSL. Hopefully he steps it up a level in time and gets a rematch!
On May 02 2012 19:29 Yonnua wrote: This isn't great news for Stephano. Even though it IS hero, it's still him losing to a korean just after being announced for the GSL. Hopefully he steps it up a level in time and gets a rematch!
I believe the match was played right after Stephano got back from vacation so I do not think it means much.
Vods up yet? It seems like EG's webmaster has put quite alot of thought into the VOD/Result page of their website, but to me its not really intuitive; What week are we even in? Week 5 or 6?
i mean i would root for them if they actually used foreigners but i don't like them using their koreans they just buy gives e-sports that "money wins" taste like other sports but nice games and well played nonetheless
On May 02 2012 21:45 sVnteen wrote: so sad liquid won
i mean i would root for them if they actually used foreigners but i don't like them using their koreans they just buy gives e-sports that "money wins" taste like other sports but nice games and well played nonetheless
liquid is actually a really good korean team...
Because of this ignorant post i am even more happy Liquid won Grats to Liquid.
On May 02 2012 21:45 sVnteen wrote: so sad liquid won
i mean i would root for them if they actually used foreigners but i don't like them using their koreans they just buy gives e-sports that "money wins" taste like other sports but nice games and well played nonetheless
liquid is actually a really good korean team...
The fact that Liquid has good Koreans is true. Will be cool to see Hero and TaeJa in GSL Code S tomorrow!!
But buying Koreans?!, money wins!?
You don't seem to know what Team Liquid is and what it stand for =/
Stephano not positioning very well in these fights... easier to clean up a brood/infestor army when the broods are too spread out to actually all engage and he lets all his infestors get feedbacked.
On May 03 2012 06:10 Phelski wrote: protoss late game is such a joke, unbeatable for a zerg
It turns out if you engage the P army with 4 broods and all your infestors, lose them all, THEN bring the rest of your units that were scattered around, you lose.
On May 03 2012 06:10 Phelski wrote: protoss late game is such a joke, unbeatable for a zerg
It turns out if you engage the P army with 4 broods and all your infestors, lose them all, THEN bring the rest of your units that were scattered around, you lose.
shocking
if you dont split your army, 20 bls die instantly to a few archons + vortex if you split too much, not all your army engages a tightly packed deathball.
splitting just right is very tedious and the P has chances to engage before you have time to set up your perfect engage as zerg.
On May 03 2012 06:10 Phelski wrote: protoss late game is such a joke, unbeatable for a zerg
It turns out if you engage the P army with 4 broods and all your infestors, lose them all, THEN bring the rest of your units that were scattered around, you lose.
shocking
if you dont split your army, 20 bls die instantly to a few archons + vortex if you split too much, not all your army engages a tightly packed deathball.
splitting just right is very tedious and the P has chances to engage before you have time to set up your perfect engage as zerg.
There's a difference between splitting vs vortex and having all your shit too far spread apart to actually engage, and STILL keeping all your infestors together for wandering templar to telekenetically dick-punch.
On May 03 2012 06:54 drbrown wrote: I feel Team Liquid has sold out, constantly playing their koreans in foreign leagues.
Used to be fond of this team, only find myself rooting for some of the players these days.
What is so special about Koreans in this context? Why are Hero, Zenio, and Taeja not real members of the team like Haypro, TLO, Jinro, Nony, Ret, etc.? What if they played their Swedes every time? Would you then complain? The only real difference is that their Korean trio is stronger than their Swedish duo at the moment, but if that is actually your point then you are simply complaining that they are playing their strong players (how unfair!). The only other reason I can see is plain racism.
On May 03 2012 06:54 drbrown wrote: I feel Team Liquid has sold out, constantly playing their koreans in foreign leagues.
Used to be fond of this team, only find myself rooting for some of the players these days.
What is so special about Koreans in this context? Why are Hero, Zenio, and Taeja not real members of the team like Haypro, TLO, Jinro, Nony, Ret, etc.? What if they played their Swedes every time? Would you then complain? The only real difference is that their Korean trio is stronger than their Swedish duo at the moment, but if that is actually your point then you are simply complaining that they are playing their strong players (how unfair!). The only other reason I can see is plain racism.
Gratz to TL for winning.
Current definition of foreigner in the StarCraft community is a player who was born and raised outside korea. Team Liquid calls themselves a foreign team yet in a so-called foreign league three of their players are somewhat recently bought korean players. It's just plain boring to see, almost every individual tournament these days is filled to the brink with koreans. That i honestly dont care about, it's just good competition, but why the hell do we even have a foreign team league if every foreign team plays as many koreans as possible? Watching a team league doesn't feel the special anymore, it's not "who is the better team here? Let's see." It's "who has purchased the better koreans here? Let's see."
Mouz and to an extent Empire are much more likable teams because i actually get to see foreign players that i "connect" to compete, rather than yet another korean stomp.
Trying to explain my opinion with nationalism and racism though is just stupid by you, honestly. I dont see where the hell in my post there is any basis for any of that.
On May 03 2012 06:54 drbrown wrote: I feel Team Liquid has sold out, constantly playing their koreans in foreign leagues.
Used to be fond of this team, only find myself rooting for some of the players these days.
What is so special about Koreans in this context? Why are Hero, Zenio, and Taeja not real members of the team like Haypro, TLO, Jinro, Nony, Ret, etc.? What if they played their Swedes every time? Would you then complain? The only real difference is that their Korean trio is stronger than their Swedish duo at the moment, but if that is actually your point then you are simply complaining that they are playing their strong players (how unfair!). The only other reason I can see is plain racism.
Gratz to TL for winning.
Current definition of foreigner in the StarCraft community is a player who was born and raised outside korea. Team Liquid calls themselves a foreign team yet in a so-called foreign league three of their players are somewhat recently bought korean players. It's just plain boring to see, almost every individual tournament these days is filled to the brink with koreans. That i honestly dont care about, it's just good competition, but why the hell do we even have a foreign team league if every foreign team plays as many koreans as possible? Watching a team league doesn't feel the special anymore, it's not "who is the better team here? Let's see." It's "who has purchased the better koreans here? Let's see."
Mouz and to an extent Empire are much more likable teams because i actually get to see foreign players that i "connect" to compete, rather than yet another korean stomp.
Trying to explain my opinion with nationalism and racism though is just stupid by you, honestly. I dont see where the hell in my post there is any basis for any of that.
If you don't like, go watch other teams. Problem? TL is a team, it doesn't have a so-called foreigners tag in front of TL. BTW if u wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best, so recruiting Koreans to be able to be the best isn't wrong.
On May 03 2012 06:54 drbrown wrote: I feel Team Liquid has sold out, constantly playing their koreans in foreign leagues.
Used to be fond of this team, only find myself rooting for some of the players these days.
What is so special about Koreans in this context? Why are Hero, Zenio, and Taeja not real members of the team like Haypro, TLO, Jinro, Nony, Ret, etc.? What if they played their Swedes every time? Would you then complain? The only real difference is that their Korean trio is stronger than their Swedish duo at the moment, but if that is actually your point then you are simply complaining that they are playing their strong players (how unfair!). The only other reason I can see is plain racism.
Gratz to TL for winning.
It's just plain boring to see, almost every individual tournament these days is filled to the brink with koreans. That i honestly dont care about, it's just good competition, but why the hell do we even have a foreign team league if every foreign team plays as many koreans as possible? Watching a team league doesn't feel the special anymore, it's not "who is the better team here? Let's see." It's "who has purchased the better koreans here? Let's see."
The definition of foreign team league doesn't mean no korean players to play. It means the teams which their source is outside of korea and most likely has more foreign players than koreans. Any team would consider koreans and if they can buy, they will. It's about competition. TL plays it's koreans because they are better overall, practicing more, analyzing more, consistent more, skilled more and we can say that they are focusing more to the game itself mentally compared to many foreigners.
If the purpose is competition and to win, this is what you will get. You would do the same if you were the head of this team if your purpose is to win.
In soccer there is a rule in most leagues that you can't bring more than 3 to 7 foreign players to the game including the substitutes. If there would be a federation or some kind in the future maybe they will consider that you can't include more than 2 or 3 koreans in that match's line up. But this time for an american team you wouldn't let europeans or for european team you wouldn't let americans too and ruling out only koreans would seem racist so these kind of rules are not practical in SC2 yet.
On May 03 2012 06:54 drbrown wrote: I feel Team Liquid has sold out, constantly playing their koreans in foreign leagues.
Used to be fond of this team, only find myself rooting for some of the players these days.
What is so special about Koreans in this context? Why are Hero, Zenio, and Taeja not real members of the team like Haypro, TLO, Jinro, Nony, Ret, etc.? What if they played their Swedes every time? Would you then complain? The only real difference is that their Korean trio is stronger than their Swedish duo at the moment, but if that is actually your point then you are simply complaining that they are playing their strong players (how unfair!). The only other reason I can see is plain racism.
Gratz to TL for winning.
Current definition of foreigner in the StarCraft community is a player who was born and raised outside korea. Team Liquid calls themselves a foreign team yet in a so-called foreign league three of their players are somewhat recently bought korean players. It's just plain boring to see, almost every individual tournament these days is filled to the brink with koreans. That i honestly dont care about, it's just good competition, but why the hell do we even have a foreign team league if every foreign team plays as many koreans as possible? Watching a team league doesn't feel the special anymore, it's not "who is the better team here? Let's see." It's "who has purchased the better koreans here? Let's see."
Mouz and to an extent Empire are much more likable teams because i actually get to see foreign players that i "connect" to compete, rather than yet another korean stomp.
Trying to explain my opinion with nationalism and racism though is just stupid by you, honestly. I dont see where the hell in my post there is any basis for any of that.
If you don't like, go watch other teams. Problem? TL is a team, it doesn't have a so-called foreigners tag in front of TL. BTW if u wanna be the best, you gotta take out the best, so recruiting Koreans to be able to be the best isn't wrong.
The problem is i've seen staff multiple times refer to Team Liquid as one of the strongest "foreign" teams and call for matches vs EG fights for title of "best foreign team" when in reality what both teams do is pitting their koreans against each other.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PDbG8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8451/teamliquidicon.png)
![[image loading]](http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7029/vslogo.png)
![[image loading]](http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/178/millicon.png)
Zenio <GSL Dual Sight> 
Feast
TaeJa <GSL Entombed Valley> 
Curious, Ro16 vs. 
